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Schools lament shortcomings of Apple's iPad as some opt instead for Chromebooks - Page 9

post #321 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

@sog35 - Man oh man are you ever pig-headed! (Moderators FYI: I'm staying on topic here... nothing personal)

Have you taken a moment to understand, that all of the links that you're posting to about Google's security/privacy failures and run-ins with governments all over the world... is because everyone is keeping an eye on them! Everything they do is scrutinized and investigated by multiple security experts the world over. If and when... which they often do... fall out of line and put "individual privacy" at serious risk, they are forced to come clean.

You can't go on singling Google out with your rage, because anyone that goes on the internet is being followed. It's come to light even those that use anonymity services and Tor are NOT safe from prying eyes, cookies and trackers. In fact, it's not so much YOU that compromises your privacy, it's others that you know and communicate with... including your bank, local gov't, assorted agencies and data brokers that are outside of your internet surfing habits, or even Google's robots. They are the one's that you will not be able to control, probably ever. Google on the other hand has a huge target on their backs, as well does Apple, Microsoft, Facebook and Twitter. The first misstep and they're nailed to the wall, so calm down.

If YOU don't want to use anything Google, that is your choice. But preaching, Populist propagandizing, and bending truths to fit your narrative of "Everything Google Is Evil Crap" is not only wrong... but it is tiring ad infinitum.

By all means carry on being pig-headed against racism, foul economics, and analysts... 1smoking.gif

PS. and leave Relic alone. While she's not a Die Hard Apple Freak like some of us, she has earned her right and the respect of many of us here for her informative posts about "the other side". Be happy someone's doing it for you and you don't have to sully yourself.... but then... rather unfortunately, your glass of opinion holds little water then, doesn't it? Silence is a virtue if yelling about things you no nothing about makes you to be a fool. Hearsay can lead to heresy, be careful out there.

 

 

First misstep?  How many 'missteps' has Google had already?

 

Stealing passwords with Street view cars for TWO YEARS.

 

Federal Trade Commission fined Google  for bypassing privacy settings in the Safari browser

 

In 2011, Google agreed to be audited for 20 years by the F.T.C. after it admitted to using deceptive tactics when starting its Buzz social network.

 

France's data protection watchdog has fined Google  after the U.S. search engine ignored a three-month ultimatum to bring its practices on tracking and storing user information in line with local law.

 

Spain’s data protection authority has fined Google $1.2 million and ordered the company to fall in line with the country’s data protection rules without delay. The Agencia Española de Protección de Datos (AEPD), said Thursday that Google does not provide users enough information about the personal information it collects, and the purposes it uses it for.

 

 

So after all those missteps has Google been 'nailed to the WALL' like you said.

 

HELL NO.  The fines and so tiny they are only pocket change to Google.  They will continue with their slimy ways because they know they can get away with it. 

 

It hiliarious that Apple's eBook fine will be larger than all the fines Google got for privacy breach (over 100 cases in all)

 

That's why I'm against Chromebooks in the classroom.  If its a personal decision, FINE.  But forcing 5 year old kids to give private information to Google is beyond amoral. 

 

Do you really want every single email written by your 5 year old kid to be read by Google? Ever single picture they take? Every single grade? Every single test? What they listen to?  I don't get how some of you just brush that stuff aside.

 

My friend who recently opened a Google drive account was given a rude awakening. All he wanted was to store some of his pictures on the cloud for free.  Next thing you know he gets ads about Paris tickets.  Come to find out it was because many of his PICTURES were of Paris.  Google scanned his photo's in Google drive and sent him an ad based on that.  That is scary.  And wrong.


Edited by sog35 - 8/8/14 at 6:32am
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post #322 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post


Again I'm okay with an INDIVIDUAL choosing to buy a Chromebook and being tracted by Google.  Thats there personal choice.

But I'm against FORCING 5 year old kids to be tracted with a Chromebook.  FORCING them to setup a Google account (that you have to devulge your REAL FULL NAME) and being tract 24 hours a day.  That is amoral and wrong.

As usual you are what is wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about. Kids under 13 are not tracked. Google has to comply with the COPPA Act. Google Apps for Education has completely different accounts than regular Google accounts.


Edited by mstone - 8/8/14 at 8:30am

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post #323 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

As usual you are what is wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about. Kids under 13 are not tracked. Google has to comply with the COPPA Act. Google Apps for Education has completely different accounts than regular Google accounts.

 

do you believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy? Dont be Naive. There is a reason why even educational Chromebooks all run on the cloud.

 

Google has already proven DOZENS of times that they don't give a rip about regulations.

Especially since even when they are found guilty all they get is a slap on the wrist.

 

IMO, they have lost the benefit of the doubt.

Over 100 privacy lawsuits filed against them and found guilty dozens of times.

They own our politicians because of their massive political contributions so do not expect anything to change even if they constantly break the law.

 

Your trust in Google is just as misguided as trusting Bernie Madoff to manage your retirement accounts.

Or trust a Dr who has been sued and lost dozens of times for malpractice.

Yes there are regulations.  But Google breaks them time and time again and there are no consequences for them.  Why would they stop?  Especially now that they can hide behind the Patriot Act?


Edited by sog35 - 8/8/14 at 8:23am
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post #324 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

yada yada
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post #325 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

^ post

+1 Can't believe why some won't take a hint and simply sog off
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post #326 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


 

thats exactly how Google wants you to feel.....

 

indifference.

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post #327 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

If Google actually sold your personal information, it would have gone out of business a long time ago as advertisers would just pay once for the data and then use that to target you directly. Google's ad business relies on collecting all your info and then hiding it from everyone else. The second step is not optional. Vendors keep paying Google to advertise on their behalf because only Google knows who is interested in what. 

in other words, yes, they sell your personal details...but they don't sell your ID along with it. but they still sell your details.

You can opt out of Google everything

 

Oh, I do; I simply don't use anything Google.

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post #328 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

 

Oh, I do; I simply don't use anything Google.


good for you.

 

But how about all those 5 year old kids who have no choice?

That's my point.

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post #329 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

 

Oh, I do; I simply don't use anything Google.


good for you.

 

But how about all those 5 year old kids who have no choice?

That's my point.

 

I agree; Google should be legislated to be made available for 18+ only.

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post #330 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post


good for you.

But how about all those 5 year old kids who have no choice?
That's my point.

OMG. . . YOU'RE RIGHT.... What's going to happen to them someday when they become a consumer and see an ad for something they might be interested in?? Might as well shoot 'em now and save them the horror.

Anyway, apparently you chose to overlook the fact that 5 year olds don't have ads aimed at them by Google per both their Privacy Policy and The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA) mentioned to you by MStone. So Google would not be putting together an advertising portfolio on your "5 year old" unlike the insurance companies, school systems, credit bureaus, data aggregators and State And Federal governments for whom you can't seem to find the same anger for their data tracking and sharing efforts. And those guys aren't doing it for benign ad placement. 1rolleyes.gif
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/8/14 at 12:16pm
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post #331 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

That's why I wear a tin foil hat, Google rays man, there everywhere. I have so many questions though, where do I search for the answers, oh God the dilemma it's to much for me, must Google, nnnnnnooooooo.

So I am reading through some of these comments because its so entertaining.

 

Then this comment gave me the biggest smile when I read it, so funny.  

 

Then I looked at the name.... Relic.

 

Well I certainly hope this is the same Relic and that you are feeling alright these days.  I don't make here all the time, and things have been crazy lately.  It's great to see your name.  I hope its really you lady, and not a program that you wrote before you died in order to make life-like comments on forums after you died :)

 

I remember the only reason I signed up here was I felt compelled to say hi to you.

post #332 of 386

My son attends a school that issued Chromebooks at the start of last year. I was disappointed, because he had already been using a MacBook for a few years, and we thought it was a good choice for him, with the parental controls, software, etc.

 

The school administrators said they would have preferred MacBooks, but the Chromebooks were so much less expensive, and they couldn't justify the cost differential. Many parents were dismayed, because we were paying for the laptops anyway, and I would have been willing to pony up the extra cash for a MacBook.

 

My son adapted to the Chromebook pretty well, but it's nowhere near as good as his MacBook, of course. We only let him use the Chromebook for school work. We had several power supplies go bad throughout the year, and the laptop stopped working by the end of the year. It just couldn't take the wear-and-tear. (His MacBook, which is a few years older, is still going strong.)

 

I just dropped by his school a few weeks ago to pick up a brand new Chromebook for this year. His original was still under some sort of extended warranty that the school had arranged, so they just let me replace his old one with a brand new one. Hope this one holds up better than the last.

 

For the most part, I cannot fault the software or the administrative capabilities of the Chromebook. The school is able to administer it pretty well, and the kids use Google Docs, Google Drive, Google Email (restricted to the school domain), and web-based textbooks. (Physical paper books are optional and cost extra.) 

 

My only complaint, besides the fragility of the hardware, is that the Chrome OS doesn't have parental controls built-in like Mac OS does. There are add-on apps available, but my kid figures out how to disable them in, oh, maybe five minutes.

post #333 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post


good for you.

But how about all those 5 year old kids who have no choice?
That's my point.

Children aren't tracked, period, they don't even user their names when logging into their Chromebooks, they are given a student ID, a number, example 123456.[schools name]@gmail.com, Google doesn't know who the students are, just the school. At least that's the way my daughters school does it and if you look in the Goolge education site/forums this is the way most schools do it. There is also no adds of any kind in the education Chromebook, repeat there are no ads, heck a normal laptop or an iPad has more ads then a Chromebook because they can't disable Adsense, even for offsite apps, AdSense is disabled, even if it wasn't, what do you think, company's that are making math tests are sitting around thinking to themselves, you know what's missing here, a boner pill ad. The children don't normally access to Google's search engine when their at school but if they do, again there no adds for educational Chromebooks , Adsense is disabled. Why don't you actually try using a Chromebook and look at the education site for Google before you continue your tyrad.

Google turns off ALL ads for education levels K12 and below as stated on their Education site. http://googleenterprise.blogspot.ch/2014/04/protecting-students-with-google-apps.html

They don't even allow staff to change this feature
"We’ve permanently removed the “enable/disable” toggle for ads in the Apps for Education Administrator console. This means ads in Apps for Education services are turned off and administrators no longer have the option or ability to turn ads in these services on."

"We’ve permanently removed all ads scanning in Gmail for Apps for Education, which means Google cannot collect or use student data in Apps for Education services for advertising purposes."

http://www.google.com/edu/privacy.html
Edited by Relic - 8/8/14 at 12:33pm
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post #334 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Children aren't tracked, period, they don't even user their names when logging into their Chromebooks, they are given a student ID, a number, example 123456.[schools name]@gmail.com, Google doesn't know who the students are, just the school.

Excellent informational post as usual Relic.

For Sog's benefit here is a sample Google Apps for Education agreement.
https://www.csd509j.net/Portals/1/Student/GoogleStudentAgreementForm.pdf
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post #335 of 386
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

OMG. . . YOU'RE RIGHT.... What's going to happen to them someday when they become a consumer and see an ad for something they might be interested in?? Might as well shoot 'em now and save them the horror.

Anyway, apparently you chose to overlook the fact that 5 year olds don't have ads aimed at them by Google per both their Privacy Policy and The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA) mentioned to you by MStone. So Google would not be putting together an advertising portfolio on your "5 year old" unlike the insurance companies, school systems, credit bureaus, data aggregators and State And Federal governments for whom you can't seem to find the same anger for their data tracking and sharing efforts. And those guys aren't doing it for benign ad placement. 1rolleyes.gif

Anyone with a child has heard "I want that, I saw it on TV". Children have been bombarded with ads for decades for cereal, toys, movies, fast food, etc, etc. I remember wanting to eat spinach because it made Popeye strong, who could forget "I fights to the finish because I eats me spinich" lol.gif
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post #336 of 386
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Originally Posted by booboo View Post

My son attends a school that issued Chromebooks at the start of last year. I was disappointed, because he had already been using a MacBook for a few years, and we thought it was a good choice for him, with the parental controls, software, etc.

The school administrators said they would have preferred MacBooks, but the Chromebooks were so much less expensive, and they couldn't justify the cost differential. Many parents were dismayed, because we were paying for the laptops anyway, and I would have been willing to pony up the extra cash for a MacBook.

My son adapted to the Chromebook pretty well, but it's nowhere near as good as his MacBook, of course. We only let him use the Chromebook for school work. We had several power supplies go bad throughout the year, and the laptop stopped working by the end of the year. It just couldn't take the wear-and-tear. (His MacBook, which is a few years older, is still going strong.)

I just dropped by his school a few weeks ago to pick up a brand new Chromebook for this year. His original was still under some sort of extended warranty that the school had arranged, so they just let me replace his old one with a brand new one. Hope this one holds up better than the last.

For the most part, I cannot fault the software or the administrative capabilities of the Chromebook. The school is able to administer it pretty well, and the kids use Google Docs, Google Drive, Google Email (restricted to the school domain), and web-based textbooks. (Physical paper books are optional and cost extra.) 

My only complaint, besides the fragility of the hardware, is that the Chrome OS doesn't have parental controls built-in like Mac OS does. There are add-on apps available, but my kid figures out how to disable them in, oh, maybe five minutes.

Not all Chromebooks are created equally, it's like any product, you can't generalize, there are now models made specifically for education that can take a real beating, even water resistant. I suggest talking with the school about this, Dell, Lenovo, CTL (especially CTL, you can drop kick it across the room with little drama) and HP all make pretty bullet proof Chromebooks. Here is a guide to help you lock down the Chromebook for your children, you can lock it down just as tightly as any Mac. I don't do it for my daughters ChromeBook as she is old enough but I defiantly do it for my sons, it works very well.
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post #337 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Children aren't tracked, period, they don't even user their names when logging into their Chromebooks, they are given a student ID, a number, example 123456.[schools name]@gmail.com, Google doesn't know who the students are, just the school. At least that's the way my daughters school does it and if you look in the Goolge education site/forums this is the way most schools do it. There is also no adds of any kind in the education Chromebook, repeat there are no ads, heck a normal laptop or an iPad has more ads then a Chromebook because they can't disable Adsense, even for offsite apps, AdSense is disabled, even if it wasn't, what do you think, company's that are making math tests are sitting around thinking to themselves, you know what's missing here, a boner pill ad. The children don't normally access to Google's search engine when their at school but if they do, again there no adds for educational Chromebooks , Adsense is disabled. Why don't you actually try using a Chromebook and look at the education site for Google before you continue your tyrad.

Google turns off ALL ads for education levels K12 and below as stated on their Education site. http://googleenterprise.blogspot.ch/2014/04/protecting-students-with-google-apps.html

They don't even allow staff to change this feature
"We’ve permanently removed the “enable/disable” toggle for ads in the Apps for Education Administrator console. This means ads in Apps for Education services are turned off and administrators no longer have the option or ability to turn ads in these services on."

"We’ve permanently removed all ads scanning in Gmail for Apps for Education, which means Google cannot collect or use student data in Apps for Education services for advertising purposes."

http://www.google.com/edu/privacy.html

 

Like i said before (and proved with numerous links) Google does not care about regulation.

They will break it if it will make them more $.

 

Its a Trojan horse.  Right now they act all nice and they won't spam the ED-Chromebooks.  For now.  They are merely collecting data to spam them once they are 18.  It is truly scary how much information they will get on someone from 12 years of using a chromebook.

 

And don't forget Google can change their PRIVACY POLICY AT ANY TIME WITHOUT WARNING!  Google does not need your consent to change the privacy policy.  Again its about their tract record. They have been sued over 100 times and lost dozens of times for privacy breach.  Obiviously regulations and their own privacy policy are as worthless as used toilet paper.

 

If Google's goal is not to EVENTUALLY feed these kids ads what is their motivation for selling these Chromebooks for less than cost?  Answer that for me.

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post #338 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechLover View Post

So I am reading through some of these comments because its so entertaining.

Then this comment gave me the biggest smile when I read it, so funny.  

Then I looked at the name.... Relic.

Well I certainly hope this is the same Relic and that you are feeling alright these days.  I don't make here all the time, and things have been crazy lately.  It's great to see your name.  I hope its really you lady, and not a program that you wrote before you died in order to make life-like comments on forums after you died 1smile.gif

I remember the only reason I signed up here was I felt compelled to say hi to you.


Aaaaaahhhhhh, I love you, yeppy it's me, still flapping away on the ol'e dock of life. Though I'm currently in the hospital, have been for a few weeks I am surrounded by oodles of children who have adapted me as their hospital mom, so I'm not alone during the day. My doctor is predominantly a child cancer specialist, they even stuck me in the child's ward. Though I think it's because they mistook me for a 12 year old boy as my hair is only a inch a half long and my chest is flatter then a beer found on the floor of frat house, I think the doctor took me too literally when I told him I needed to get something off of my chest Thank you so much for reaching out to me and I'm so happy to hear from you again, please stick around, we need more lovely people like you at Appleinsider.


I hear the cutest jokes here;
Group of four-year-olds were trying very hard to become accustomed to school. The biggest hurdle they faced was that the teacher insisted on NO baby talk!

"You need to use 'Big People' words," she was always reminding them. "John what did you do over the weekend?"

"I went to visit my Nana."

"No, you went to visit your GRANDMOTHER. Use 'Big People' words!" She then asked Mitchell what he had done.

"I took a ride on a choo-choo."

"No, you took a ride on a TRAIN. You must remember to use 'Big People' words," she said. She then asked little Alex what he had done.

"I read a book," he replied.

"That's WONDERFUL!" the teacher said. "What book did you read?"

Alex thought very hard about it, then puffed out his chest with great pride and said, "Winnie the SHIT."
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post #339 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Children aren't tracked, period, they don't even user their names when logging into their Chromebooks, they are given a student ID, a number, example 123456.[schools name]@gmail.com, Google doesn't know who the students are, just the school. At least that's the way my daughters school does it and if you look in the Goolge education site/forums this is the way most schools do it. There is also no adds of any kind in the education Chromebook, repeat there are no ads, heck a normal laptop or an iPad has more ads then a Chromebook because they can't disable Adsense, even for offsite apps, AdSense is disabled, even if it wasn't, what do you think, company's that are making math tests are sitting around thinking to themselves, you know what's missing here, a boner pill ad. The children don't normally access to Google's search engine when their at school but if they do, again there no adds for educational Chromebooks , Adsense is disabled. Why don't you actually try using a Chromebook and look at the education site for Google before you continue your tyrad.

Google turns off ALL ads for education levels K12 and below as stated on their Education site. http://googleenterprise.blogspot.ch/2014/04/protecting-students-with-google-apps.html

They don't even allow staff to change this feature
"We’ve permanently removed the “enable/disable” toggle for ads in the Apps for Education Administrator console. This means ads in Apps for Education services are turned off and administrators no longer have the option or ability to turn ads in these services on."

"We’ve permanently removed all ads scanning in Gmail for Apps for Education, which means Google cannot collect or use student data in Apps for Education services for advertising purposes."

http://www.google.com/edu/privacy.html

 

Right from their privacy document

 

"Like many email providers, we do scanning in Gmail to keep our customers secure and to improve their product experience."

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post #340 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Aaaaaahhhhhh, I love you, yeppy it's me, still flapping away on the ol'e dock of life. Though I'm currently in the hospital, have been for a few weeks I am surrounded by oodles of children who have adapted me as their hospital mom, so I'm not alone during the day. My doctor is predominantly a child cancer specialist, they even stuck me in the child's ward. Though I think it's because they mistook me for a 12 year old boy as my hair is only a inch a half long and my chest is flatter then a beer found on the floor of frat house, I think the doctor took me too literally when I told him I needed to get something off of my chest Thank you so much for reaching out to me and I'm so happy to hear from you again, please stick around, we need more lovely people like you at Appleinsider.


I hear the cutest jokes here;
Group of four-year-olds were trying very hard to become accustomed to school. The biggest hurdle they faced was that the teacher insisted on NO baby talk!

"You need to use 'Big People' words," she was always reminding them. "John what did you do over the weekend?"

"I went to visit my Nana."

"No, you went to visit your GRANDMOTHER. Use 'Big People' words!" She then asked Mitchell what he had done.

"I took a ride on a choo-choo."

"No, you took a ride on a TRAIN. You must remember to use 'Big People' words," she said. She then asked little Alex what he had done.

"I read a book," he replied.

"That's WONDERFUL!" the teacher said. "What book did you read?"

Alex thought very hard about it, then puffed out his chest with great pride and said, "Winnie the SHIT."

 

wow.  this really puts my rant about Google in perspective.

 

Hope i did not cause you any grief.

Keeping fighting HARD! 

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post #341 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post



If Google's goal is not to EVENTUALLY feed these kids ads what is their motivation for selling these Chromebooks for less than cost?  Answer that for me.

First they're not Google's Chromebooks. Second what source did you come actoss that gives you the confidence to state as FACT that the companies that do sell them are doing so for less than cost? Mind sharing it?

As for ads I've no doubt that Google plans to serve ads to students when they become old enough. How do you suppose the costs or all the searches you've done in the past 24 hours are paid for? How do you suppose AI gives you a forum to release your pent-up anger on? Search engines, on-line research services and forums are expensive and there's not a lot of evidence that folks like you and me would pay a fee to use 'em.
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/8/14 at 2:18pm
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post #342 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Children aren't tracked, period, they don't even user their names when logging into their Chromebooks, they are given a student ID, a number, example 123456.[schools name]@gmail.com, Google doesn't know who the students are, just the school. At least that's the way my daughters school does it and if you look in the Goolge education site/forums this is the way most schools do it. There is also no adds of any kind in the education Chromebook, repeat there are no ads, heck a normal laptop or an iPad has more ads then a Chromebook because they can't disable Adsense, even for offsite apps, AdSense is disabled, even if it wasn't, what do you think, company's that are making math tests are sitting around thinking to themselves, you know what's missing here, a boner pill ad. The children don't normally access to Google's search engine when their at school but if they do, again there no adds for educational Chromebooks , Adsense is disabled. Why don't you actually try using a Chromebook and look at the education site for Google before you continue your tyrad.


Google turns off ALL ads for education levels K12 and below as stated on their Education site. http://googleenterprise.blogspot.ch/2014/04/protecting-students-with-google-apps.html


They don't even allow staff to change this feature

"We’ve permanently removed the “enable/disable” toggle for ads in the Apps for Education Administrator console. This means ads in Apps for Education services are turned off and administrators no longer have the option or ability to turn ads in these services on."


"We’ve permanently removed all ads scanning in Gmail for Apps for Education, which means Google cannot collect or use student data in Apps for Education services for advertising purposes."

http://www.google.com/edu/privacy.html

Right from their privacy document

"Like many email providers, we do scanning in Gmail to keep our customers secure and to improve their product experience."

Like this you mean?

http://safegov.org/2014/1/31/google-admits-data-mining-student-emails-in-its-free-education-apps
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sue-scheff/google-apps-for-education_b_5083478.html

You have to remember though that anything-but-Apple products are better than Apple products and if you don't think so, you're not impartial enough.
post #343 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post


"Like many email providers, we do scanning in Gmail to keep our customers secure and to improve their product experience."

Some might say:

"You know, for a stupid person you sure post the dumbest things."

All email services scan the databases in order to:

Keep spam out,
Keep illegal stuff out, like kiddy porn, copyright material et cetera,
Keep you safe from receiving such things,
Keep them safe from liability, therefore keeping the email service up...for you.

Google does this. My ISP does this. Apple does this. Please, sir, stay calm and no one will be hurt. And take advice from posters here, as they can be very educational to the uninformed.
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post #344 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Chromebooks are slightly better than netbooks.

I dunno - at least netbooks were somewhat useful without a network connection.
post #345 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Like this you mean?

http://safegov.org/2014/1/31/google-admits-data-mining-student-emails-in-its-free-education-apps
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sue-scheff/google-apps-for-education_b_5083478.html

You have to remember though that anything-but-Apple products are better than Apple products and if you don't think so, you're not impartial enough.

Marvin, if you had checked into it a little more you probably woudl have noticed that both GMial scanning and ads had been completely removed as options in Google Apps for Education back in April. Of course it could have been due to pressure from education groups so good on them if that's what lead to the change, and good on Google if they arrived at the change of policy on their own. My guess is it took a little push.
https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/www.google.com/en/us/intl/en/chromebook/static/pdf/Chromebooks_for_Education.pdf
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/8/14 at 2:55pm
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post #346 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Like i said before (and proved with numerous links) Google does not care about regulation.
They will break it if it will make them more $.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Like i said before (and proved with numerous links) Google does not care about regulation.
They will break it if it will make them more $.

Its a Trojan horse.  Right now they act all nice and they won't spam the ED-Chromebooks.  For now.  They are merely collecting data to spam them once they are 18.  It is truly scary how much information they will get on someone from 12 years of using a chromebook.

And don't forget Google can change their PRIVACY POLICY AT ANY TIME WITHOUT WARNING!  Google does not need your consent to change the privacy policy.  Again its about their tract record. They have been sued over 100 times and lost dozens of times for privacy breach.  Obiviously regulations and their own privacy policy are as worthless as used toilet paper.

If Google's goal is not to EVENTUALLY feed these kids ads what is their motivation for selling these Chromebooks for less than cost?  Answer that for me.

The same exact thing can be said about Apple, Microsoft or any other company that sell their products to schools, get'em while their young. I never said that their wasn't an end game or that Google was doing this out of charity or the kindness of their hearts, I'm not naive. You have this knack of putting words into others people mouth, like the comment you made about me comparing my Pixel to the iPad, I never said or suggested anything of the sort, just that I owned one. Yes, like when Apple sells iPads to schools, Google want's to introduce their products to children so when their older they will hopefully stay with them, what's your point, everyone does that including the shoe manufacture that the child is wearing. This has been done since the very first Apple II or IBM XT, I don't see why this has to be some huge conspiracy. Again, Google doesn't know who the individual child is or building a profile on them specifically, it's all general information, some child at this school, not Billy Thornburg, from a family of 5, likes Star Wars, thinks girls has cuddies, etc. Your being a little too paranoid here and about the wrong entity, it's government agencies that you need to worry about. As long as Google keeps my specific private information to themselves and just shares the general, like I'm interested in Midi controllers to those who sell those type of products, then honestly I'm not all that worried. Ads will never go away, it's how sites like Appleinsider for instance are able to function, so I would rather see ads that I am interested in then crap that I am not and this is only possible by tracking me. What exactly do you have to hide, the internet isn't private any longer and nor should you believe for a second that it is.

I surf and store information as if everyone has access to it at all time, everyone is snooping, this is the reality we are living in, I never keep financial information in the cloud unless it's my bank or broker, communication is over a VPN and I have a dedicated app for their service. I only purchase item from supplies that I trust and use an American Express card with the best anti-fraud features possible, etc. Though to be honest I mostly buy my goods directly from local stores and in person. You can't live your life in fear and this little crusade of yours is really only beneficial to you, everyone here knows that Google collects user data to better understand their buying habits, make their products more personalized, maximize profits, etc.Their not selling your personal information to other firms, it would mean the death of them. I happen to know a few people who work for Google, grew up with two of them and have visited their campus in Switzerland many times, that's how I got introduced to the ChromeBook, received the Pixel as a gift, a lot of wonderful hard working people are working for them and I cannot in good conscious believe that they would involve themselves in a company that would knowingly want to destroy people lives, hurt anyone or conduct shady business. I know about the stories you have posted, the lawsuits and yes Google over steps the boundaries on privacy and they defiantly need to slow their role with a lot of things but I believe they are starting to get the hint. The biggest privacy concerns I have are from Social media, Facebook and other such sites, because it's people sharing information about other people that should never become public, not a single firm who has at least some rules that need to be followed. I'm going to back off now because we're just going in circles and I'm dizzy, I concede you win, congratulations, I hope its everything you've always dreamed it would be. You get a car, and you get a car, everyone here get's a car,

Edited by Relic - 8/8/14 at 2:53pm
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post #347 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Like this you mean?

http://safegov.org/2014/1/31/google-admits-data-mining-student-emails-in-its-free-education-apps
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sue-scheff/google-apps-for-education_b_5083478.html

You have to remember though that anything-but-Apple products are better than Apple products and if you don't think so, you're not impartial enough.

 

Google  I think is really trying Marvin, I really do and as I actually have a child who uses a Chromebook for school I can confirm that there are no ads, even on the Google search page. You can verify this by asking some of the parents over at the Google forums for education, their really nice over their. Google doesn't scan student emails any longer http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2014/04/30/google-stops-data-mining-students-email/

 

I'm also not saying Chromebooks are better then Apple products for education, never, ever my point, I'm just saying Chromebooks aren't bad either, quite the opposite they can be really good teaching companions. Some of the custom sites my daughters teachers make are really quite good, not only does my daughter have access to all of her homework, study materials, books in PDF forms, etc. but when she's sick or is visiting me during the day at be at school she can retrieve her homework lessons online, the school is even going to start using Hangouts to stream lesson when students can't be there, That's cool.


Edited by Relic - 8/8/14 at 3:18pm
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post #348 of 386
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Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Google I think is really trying Marvin, I really do

Google is a publicly traded company with a business model that operates on advertising. What any company tries to do is make the best success of the business model they choose. They push it as far as they can get away with. Fans on the outside try to project a persona onto companies to make them feel better and make definitive statements on their behalf like "children aren't tracked, period". Then when it's found otherwise, it changes to 'oh, well they don't do it now so just ignore that they tried to, they're still good people'.

I believe some of the people at Google are good people and the founders at least seem ethical but as a whole it is a publicly traded company that hires people to promote a business model that monetizes people's information and that will be evil at times. Google needs to be treated as objectively as any other company in order to have a 'balanced' discussion.
post #349 of 386

Good find.

 

Quote: This taken from the article:
 

In sum, then, we have learned from Google’s own statements that:

  1. Ad serving remains a standard option in Google Apps for Education,
  2. Even when ads are turned off (as they currently are by default) Google still data mines student emails for ad targeting purposes, and
  3. Google’s consumer privacy policy is incorporated in standard Google Apps for Education contracts.

 

I is not immediately clear to from reading the article what exactly happens when the student is logged in with their student ID but using other Google services outside of Apps for Education such as YouTube. It doesn't explain if the student email scanning data is currently being used for targeted ads at this time or if it is in preparation for such activities at a later date. I was surprised that Google offered an ad supported Education model to the schools, which makes no sense to me, but if true then obviously they would need to data mine even though they don't know who the students really are since they are anonymous. In the case that the schools were using the ad option, it is up to the schools to inform the users and parents that email scanning would be used to target ads. But if they are not serving ads in Apps for Education then the school is not under any obligation to inform the users even though data mining is still occurring.

 

As mentioned in the article, the contract that each school makes with Google could supersede the default privacy policy and prohibit the email scanning if the school were to insist on that. My guess is that most schools don't know this is possible and part of the contract states that the schools cannot make public or discuss any aspect of the contracts.

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post #350 of 386
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Good find... It doesn't explain if the student email scanning data is currently being used for targeted ads at this time or if it is in preparation for such activities at a later date. I was surprised that Google offered an ad supported Education model to the schools, which makes no sense to me,

They don't even have the option any longer.. Marvin's article pre-dates changes put in place by Google back in April
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/8/14 at 3:42pm
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post #351 of 386
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post
 
They don't even have the option any longer, nor had it had been enabled even before that. Marvin's article pre-dates changes put in place by Google back in April

I see that now. I am still unclear about the timeline. I appears that Google originally had a no data mining or ads policy for students, then they decided to offer an ad supported model, and now reversed that policy back to the original more protected privacy policy. Anyway it is good that they currently do not scan the students.

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post #352 of 386
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Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


I dunno - at least netbooks were somewhat useful without a network connection.

You can still do a lot offline with a Chromebook and now that they are very popular offline apps are popping up more frequently. Plus installing Linux like Ubuntu alongside Chrome OS is extremely easy if you really need something that works offline. Really though, a Chromebook wouldn't be a smart buy if for any reason a potential buyer doesn't have a stable Internet connection, so your observation is kind of silly. When was the last time you were offline though, really? I mean my Nokia 2520, Nokia 1020, Google Pixel, my daughters HP 11 Chromebook, iPhone 5s, iPad Mini Air, my sons new Nokia 930, HP 11 Chromebook, Nexus 7 and my husbands Lenovo X1, iPhone 5s, new Porsche-Design P'9882 all have LTE with hotspot, plus we have fiber with a DSL backup line at home. The chances of her not having Internet at any given time, is very, very slim. All these LTE lines aren't as crazy as you might think, our mobile providers only charges us 10 bucks extra a month for each additional SIM,  up to 3 per phone mobile, used for tablets, 3 SIM's actually only costs 20 extra. It's called MultiSurf See -> https://shop.orange.ch/subscriptions/?lang=en cool huh!


Edited by Relic - 8/8/14 at 4:09pm
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post #353 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Google is a publicly traded company with a business model that operates on advertising. What any company tries to do is make the best success of the business model they choose. They push it as far as they can get away with. Fans on the outside try to project a persona onto companies to make them feel better and make definitive statements on their behalf like "children aren't tracked, period". Then when it's found otherwise, it changes to 'oh, well they don't do it now so just ignore that they tried to, they're still good people'.

I believe some of the people at Google are good people and the founders at least seem ethical but as a whole it is a publicly traded company that hires people to promote a business model that monetizes people's information and that will be evil at times. Google needs to be treated as objectively as any other company in order to have a 'balanced' discussion.

Your right of course, it's just that soggy35 is getting a little too obsessed about this. I actually never recanted on the whole Google doesn't track kids things, I stood by that they didn't from the start, though I was using the latest data from Google's education site which clearly states this. Nor do they display ads, you threw me for a loop when you said they search emails though, but a quick search showed they they no longer do it any longer. I hope Google also gives everyone that option, do you use any Google services?

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post #354 of 386
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

I see that now. I am still unclear about the timeline. I appears that Google originally had a no data mining or ads policy for students, then they decided to offer an ad supported model, and now reversed that policy back to the original more protected privacy policy. Anyway it is good that they currently do not scan the students.

Agreed and the zero ads policy is pretty great, even if the schools were to use normal laptops the children would be exposed too ads if the school allowed access to Google search, on a Chromebook there is none, this is defiantly a good thing.

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post #355 of 386
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Good find.

 

 

I is not immediately clear to from reading the article what exactly happens when the student is logged in with their student ID but using other Google services outside of Apps for Education such as YouTube. It doesn't explain if the student email scanning data is currently being used for targeted ads at this time or if it is in preparation for such activities at a later date. I was surprised that Google offered an ad supported Education model to the schools, which makes no sense to me, but if true then obviously they would need to data mine even though they don't know who the students really are since they are anonymous. In the case that the schools were using the ad option, it is up to the schools to inform the users and parents that email scanning would be used to target ads. But if they are not serving ads in Apps for Education then the school is not under any obligation to inform the users even though data mining is still occurring.

 

As mentioned in the article, the contract that each school makes with Google could supersede the default privacy policy and prohibit the email scanning if the school were to insist on that. My guess is that most schools don't know this is possible and part of the contract states that the schools cannot make public or discuss any aspect of the contracts.

Google has stopped scanning emails and Adsense is disabled nor can it be re-enabled for education, no matter what.

 

 http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2014/04/30/google-stops-data-mining-students-email/

http://googleenterprise.blogspot.ch/2014/04/protecting-students-with-google-apps.html

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post #356 of 386
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Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

wow.  this really puts my rant about Google in perspective.

 

Hope i did not cause you any grief.

Keeping fighting HARD! 

No worries and thank you, I can be frustrating at times, just ask Marvin, I have been fighting breast cancer for a very long while now. Here's a nice little thread about me if your interested.

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post #357 of 386
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Originally Posted by Relic View Post

soggy35 is getting a little too obsessed about this. I actually never recanted on the whole Google doesn't track kids things, I stood by that they didn't from the start, though I was using the latest data from Google's education site which clearly states this. Nor do they display ads, you threw me for a loop when you said they search emails though, but a quick search showed they they no longer do it any longer. I hope Google also gives everyone that option, do you use any Google services?

Here's the thing though, outside of scenarios where Google explicitly knows not to track people, Google is tracking everyone by default. They don't know who is a kid and who isn't unless the kid tells them; if they use a parent's device, Google doesn't know any different. If you assume they're tracking adults and you're comfortable with that, they have to be tracking kids in exactly the same way. I of course use Google services as I use Google like most people do and was a little shocked when I found out years ago about their web history feature, which logs every search you've ever made in Google when you are logged into any Google service:

http://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-clear-your-google-search-history-on-android/
http://www.google.com/history

It's one thing to see your browser history but to see an entire trail going back years, you can see how it builds up a profile. You said recently that you gave 10 Android devices to kids, if they want to download apps on it or use email and login to the Google services, Google doesn't know not to track what they do in a browser. They don't know their identity directly but if they have Facebook or Twitter or whatever, they can probably figure it out. All they need is one link to figure out an identity. You just need to signup to Facebook to see how much data these companies have as they already know a bunch of people you might know just from location and name.

There was a recent case where Google handed someone over to police after finding explicit images in his GMail account. It's tough to criticize that, some have made an attempt:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/08/05/do-we-want-google-to-have-this-much-power-child-pornographer-caught-by-gmail-scan/

but how much are they scanning? Are they flagging up intimate pictures of girlfriends/wives and having Google employees take a look at them? Their official stance is they have software hashing only known set of images and that's all they check:

http://gizmodo.com/how-google-hunts-down-child-porn-in-your-inbox-1616310140

"Each child sexual abuse image is given a unique digital fingerprint which enables our systems to identify those pictures, including in Gmail.

It is important to remember that we only use this technology to identify child sexual abuse imagery — not other email content that could be associated with criminal activity (for example using email to plot a burglary)."

Sounds like Google looks the other way on burglary. Property theft is ok? Oh right, it's Google. But anyway, we know this isn't the case because employees always have some level of access:

http://gawker.com/5637234/gcreep-google-engineer-stalked-teens-spied-on-chats

People would simply say not to share intimate pictures that way but people sext things all the time. That's the point, they trust the texting service they use, they can't trust the email service they use. What company policies and employees can we trust? It's hard to trust any company but a company like Apple whose business model isn't monetizing data is at least easier to trust with data.

I think almost anyone would say Facebook is untrustworthy with data but they have the same business model as Google. Over 80% of revenue is advertising.

I don't personally think using profiling for targeted ads is particularly harmful, which is why I keep using Google services but some people don't like it.
post #358 of 386
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Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Aaaaaahhhhhh, I love you, yeppy it's me, still flapping away on the ol'e dock of life. Though I'm currently in the hospital, have been for a few weeks I am surrounded by oodles of children who have adapted me as their hospital mom, so I'm not alone during the day.

Considering all the toys you have at your disposal... is it any wonder? You're better than Santa Claus! Well for most "kids" anyway. sog35 doesn't believe in SC and spoils it for everyone else. I know... not the same argument... "pardon".
Quote:
My doctor is predominantly a child cancer specialist, they even stuck me in the child's ward. Though I think it's because they mistook me for a 12 year old boy as my hair is only a inch a half long and my chest is flatter then a beer found on the floor of frat house, I think the doctor took me too literally when I told him I needed to get something off of my chest Thank you so much for reaching out to me and I'm so happy to hear from you again, please stick around, we need more lovely people like you at Appleinsider.

So ya dropped Skeuomorphism for the new Flat-Fad... didn't we all? And some would say we didn't have a choice either... for whatever that's worth to ya. Hopefully the pain has subsided for ya... or at least they're still providing those killer (edited: not the best choice of words...sorry!) designer drugs you raved about months back. Yes and naturally... life would be so much better for ya without all that, no doubt about it. But trust me: "flat" is gonna be "in" for a while, so don't worry about "that"... 1wink.gif
Quote:
I hear the cutest jokes here;
Group of four-year-olds were trying very hard to become accustomed to school. The biggest hurdle they faced was that the teacher insisted on NO baby talk!

"You need to use 'Big People' words," she was always reminding them. "John what did you do over the weekend?"

"I went to visit my Nana."

"No, you went to visit your GRANDMOTHER. Use 'Big People' words!" She then asked Mitchell what he had done.

"I took a ride on a choo-choo."

"No, you took a ride on a TRAIN. You must remember to use 'Big People' words," she said. She then asked little Alex what he had done.

"I read a book," he replied.

"That's WONDERFUL!" the teacher said. "What book did you read?"

Alex thought very hard about it, then puffed out his chest with great pride and said, "Winnie the SHIT."

^^^^^ ROFL!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^
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post #359 of 386
Quote:
The first misstep and they're nailed to the wall, so calm down.

@sog35 - You really want to "nail" me on using that phrase, don't ya? OK... you're right. Google hasn't been "financially" nailed at all if we're talking "chits & cents". But YOU yourself and your persistent posting and links has proven that they are consistently being "nailed to the wall" in the proverbial sense, public trust and perception.

I hate to tell ya (Marvin already did quite well), but you're grasping at very visible low-hanging fruit here... let's call it "Lemons" for your disposition on the matter. The truly dangerous hackers these days are going for the sun-dried and bird-pecked cherries at the top of the tree (I love metaphors... can't ya tell?!). You should be asking questions and investigating the companies that are servicing the tech in the schools. A large amount is farmed out, and even sub-contracted to smaller (or bigger) companies. THAT's where the "vectors" and security weaknesses are that the hackers are going after by the thousands per day. It's also the home PC still on Windows XP (even 7 or 8) and with outdated Java, Flash, and virus definitions, where the real "logging" and "data breaches are. The guys that tap into these "baskets of abundant fruit" i.e. info, definitely "peal" and process every last bit and byte of info to compile marketable lists to make "cherry picking" worth their while.

It's not that you're necessarily "wrong" in your assessment of Google, and you have a lot of things in the "right" column to be sure. Most of all that we have to be diligent and support reform in what happens to our personal data. We have to be recognize that the entire Internet runs on ad support, so we have to be careful where and with whom we freely share a part of ourselves to use those services proffered. You will never find me against thoughtful reflection before someone does something like sign up for a blog or a service of any kind... so don't pin that on me.

And to a certain degree... I will agree with you, that "forcing" anyone to use a platform... and I don't care if it's Apple, MS, Google or the newest Timbuktu distro of Linux... is not right. I believe that at this point in Tech Time... we should be working harder than ever towards "platform independence". Full stop. And that statement even includes my beloved Apple "platform" FYI.

From one of my favorite Global news sources... The Guardian:
Quote:
As we sweat government surveillance, companies like Google collect our data

Unless we demand changes, Big Tech will continue to profit off our personal information – with our benighted permission.
If you aren't careful, every time you log on, all your activity could be up for grabs. Photograph: PhotoAlto/Alamy


As security expert Bruce Schneier (a friend) has archly observed, "Surveillance is the business model of the internet." I don't expect this to change unless and until external realities force a change – and I'm not holding my breath.

Instead, the depressing news just seems to be getting worse. Google confirmed this week what many people had assumed: even if you're not a Gmail user, your email to someone who does use their services will be scanned by the all-seeing search and the advertising company's increasingly smart machines.

See. I'm supporting your argument... somewhat. Because notice in red, you, I, or your children have NO CHOICE if someone we communicate with, is using Google... or any other Internet companies services.

In fact... even if you don't have a bloody computer or phone... you could very well be profiled already on the Internet containing a huge amount of info/facts on who you are... including pictures. Not only public pictures in security systems (what companies have access to those?), but very possibly "tagged" within collections like those found on Flickr (Yahoo), Facebook/Instagram, or titled with your name on Dropbox or OneDrive.

Unfortunately for those like yourself that desire perfect privacy and data protection... your just "Winnie the Shit"*** out of luck unless your living in a cave. Oh yeah... and then there's satellites... 1oyvey.gif

*** @Relic - I just had to use that somewhere! Still chucklin' here... 1smoking.gif

Edited: in my haste to throw in Winnie the Shit... I failed to finish the sentence to say that you should be preaching just as relentlessly at your elected representatives as you do here. And until you/we manage to get the real "piggies" working to fix this, we're all just a "bowl of fresh picked cherries" to be enjoyed and eaten... preferably with Yoghurt (don't ask!).
Edited by ThePixelDoc - 8/9/14 at 2:58am
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #360 of 386
Just wanted to say that my post above was superfluous.

@Marvin, @Relic - some damn fine posts!
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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