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Schools lament shortcomings of Apple's iPad as some opt instead for Chromebooks - Page 2

post #41 of 386
As a learnin
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

use a $40 blutooth keyboard.

That's way cheaper than trying to run touch enabled software on a laptop or chromebook

Been there, done that. I tried using a Bluetooth keyboard with my iPad mini as a substitute for my 15" Retina MacBook Pro on the road and failed miserably. My daily workload requires me to have a word processor, Photoshop, email program, Twitter, and about 20 tabs open in Safari at once (I could see a similar situation for a student doing research work).

The back and forth between typing and then reaching to touch the screen, swiping, tapping, back to the keyboard, etc. was enough to drive me batty as hell. I ended that experiment right away.
post #42 of 386

The keyboard issue is surely the easiest problem to solve, no? With a keyboard case the iPad becomes hugely more functional for text / spreadsheet input and editing.

 

I have always thought Apple should have created a transparent software layer that would allow for mouse use - show cursor movement and translate a mouse click into a 'touch'. Cmnd-Tab to flip apps would also be very useful.

post #43 of 386

Sounds to me like Apple dropped the ball here.  In their arrogance, they've not bothered to do their homework.  I.e., they should have sent teams out to pilot schools and organizations, and found out what these problems are in advance, and then fixed them.  SHOW the way to connect keyboards, OR offer the MBA. Provide seamless integration with existing educational software, SHOWING that the device works and  how it is administered. TRAIN school IT admins in how to deploy and maintain the software. TEACH developers of edu software how to code and design their apps for the iPad and/or MBA. ENSURE that "problems" are designed so that they can be viewed on an iPad easily.   Apple left too much up to chance here. That's what I mean by "arrogance".  And once they get everything working properly, then send teams out on roadshows to DEMONSTRATE FUNCTION and EASE.

Instead, it seems Apple has squandered a good bit of goodwill.

post #44 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

Lack of knowledge of administration and the fact you could add a bluetooth keyboard to an iPad obviously had something to do with it. Anyone who knows about iPads and using them in a corporate or school environment should know about how to administrate them properly. Obviously the schools IT has no clue or they would not have run into the problems they claim...

Or quite possibly there is a prejudice within the IT dept. against all Apple products and they are just looking for excuses to not work with them. I have noticed this to be a sadly common mindset of many IT individuals within my workplace and personal life who are much too ignorant as a result of some kind of nonsensical hate against Apple that they cannot see the products' strengths. 

post #45 of 386
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
Some teachers and administrators -- such as those in Hillsborough, New Jersey -- cite the lack of a physical keyboard on the iPad as a major drawback

 

THIS IS WHY AMERICA IS BEHIND IN EDUCATION. BECAUSE THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADMINISTERING IT LIVE FIVE YEARS IN THE PAST.

 

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
I have a suspicion that everything one learns in grade school through high school could be learned in less than half the time with a concentrated learning environment.

 

I’m living proof of this.

 

Originally Posted by tjskywasher View Post
It seems to me that they've tried iPads and gone back to the same old, same old with a cheap laptop with a keyboard and mouse because it's what they're more familiar with and what they're used to teaching with.

 

Interesting anecdote about that: When my local elementary school was torn down after the new one was rebuilt, teachers were not allowed to bring their old classroom computers to the new building, despite universal protestations.

 

What were the old computers? Members of the Apple ][ family.

 

Instead, the new building had PCs and whatnot, and in the first years after the move, tests were down and reports of dissatisfaction and confusion among students and teachers were so high that they switched back to iMacs. 

 

And I made off with a ton of 5.25” floppies and six classic computers.

 

For children in kindergarten and the early years of elementary school, the Apple ][ line is still one of the best primers into the desktop computing experience. It’s simple, efficient, and not prone to problem. You can’t really screw them up if you don’t know what you’re doing, which is great for 6-10 year olds.

 

Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
Sounds to me like Apple dropped the ball here.  In their arrogance, they've not bothered to do their homework.  I.e., they should have sent teams out to pilot schools and organizations, and found out what these problems are in advance, and then fixed them.  SHOW the way to connect keyboards...


Rebuttal: Apple should be highlighting how brain-dead these people are. Show them why keyboards aren’t necessary, etc.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #46 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post


When writing a 15-page research report for you HS class, would you rather use an iPad or a MacBook Air/ThinkPad?

The first question would be this: Is it the school's responsibility to make sure every student has a way to complete their 15-page research report? When I was in high school we had no problem doing these types of things when neither Chromebook or iPad existed. There was something called a computer lab and/or library, or you had a computer at home. I'm sure these schools also still have computer labs and libraries with computers. So the way I view an iPad at a school is simply a device that helps you learn better with the use of the many different apps that it has available. It essentially becomes an assistant for students. Voice recording apps, cheap scientific calculators, calendar apps, dictionary, thesaurus and textbooks that allow you to highlight and keep notes for research for that 15 page paper etc., All of those way better than what any chromebook or regular computer could give you for that matter. The computer in this scenario simply becomes a device you use to type papers.

post #47 of 386
Chromebook sounds better. I use one as my primary computer and it's awesome.
post #48 of 386
Sounds like someone from MS whispered the arguments...
The school system is known for it's lack of (IT) knowledge and bad judgement, so no exceptions here.
But we do need an unrestricted 13inch 'pro'-pad with a transparent mode virtual keyboard (anyone asking for a 'real' keyboard cannot be taken serious).
post #49 of 386
Originally Posted by navpro33 View Post
Gee, I really like my car, but I noticed there's no propeller on the grill.  Duh.  That's because your car is not an airplane.  If the school wants a computer, typically used to create content, they should have purchased computers.  The iPad is primarily a content delivery system.  Don't try to make a device something it's not.


Yeah, you’re completely and utterly wrong. Also, to reply to a thread, hit “Post a Reply” in the bottom left corner of the page.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #50 of 386
Keyboards are a daily reminder of how dumb our computers really are.
post #51 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
 

Sounds to me like Apple dropped the ball here.  In their arrogance, they've not bothered to do their homework.  I.e., they should have sent teams out to pilot schools and organizations, and found out what these problems are in advance, and then fixed them.  SHOW the way to connect keyboards, OR offer the MBA. Provide seamless integration with existing educational software, SHOWING that the device works and  how it is administered. TRAIN school IT admins in how to deploy and maintain the software. TEACH developers of edu software how to code and design their apps for the iPad and/or MBA. ENSURE that "problems" are designed so that they can be viewed on an iPad easily.   Apple left too much up to chance here. That's what I mean by "arrogance".  And once they get everything working properly, then send teams out on roadshows to DEMONSTRATE FUNCTION and EASE.

Instead, it seems Apple has squandered a good bit of goodwill.

 

not Apple dropping the ball.

 

You can't please everyone.  Espeically slacker government workers.

post #52 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post

Chromebook sounds better. I use one as my primary computer and it's awesome.

 

What can you do on a chromebook besides surfing the web, email, and google docs?

 

I'm being serious here.

post #53 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

Sounds like someone from MS whispered the arguments...
The school system is known for it's lack of (IT) knowledge and bad judgement, so no exceptions here.
But we do need an unrestricted 13inch 'pro'-pad with a transparent mode virtual keyboard (anyone asking for a 'real' keyboard cannot be taken serious).

 

Sounds like someone gave them a massive discount if they bashed the iPad....

post #54 of 386
Google promises that this time, they won't monitor children's online activities to build their database on them for future advertising purposes. This time they really mean it!
post #55 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Schools are an archaic concept. They are publicly funded babysitting services with marginal utility for learning. 

The blame is mostly on the parents for allowing their children to grow up spoiled, misbehaved, selfish, and with TV induced ADHD. Teachers have to spend more time dealing with behavior problems than they do actual teaching. 

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #56 of 386

This is AppleInsider comments at it's best.

 

All of the reasons cited for why the schools couldn't make the iPad work are being blamed on the school.  And quite so, you can see that if the schools had better administrators, a more forward thinking view of IT, better support etc. they might have been able to make the iPad work.

 

But hopefully Apple don't sit there and blame the school.  If Apple wants to win the schools market, and if they believe iPad is a viable solution for use in schools, they should be out there solving the problem for the schools.

 

If a customer doesn't buy your product, it's something you, the vendor, needs to fix.  Not the customer.

post #57 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

I know people here do not like windows but I always thought apple should take a play out of those 3 in 1 windows laptops. Make a dock of sorts for the ipad that the ipad clicks into which turns the ipad into the monitor and the OS switches to OSX. It would be perfect for schools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

The keyboard issue is surely the easiest problem to solve, no? With a keyboard case the iPad becomes hugely more functional for text / spreadsheet input and editing.

I have always thought Apple should have created a transparent software layer that would allow for mouse use - show cursor movement and translate a mouse click into a 'touch'. Cmnd-Tab to flip apps would also be very useful.

In my opinion, iPod Touch (or iPhone) with an Apple Display with integrated AppleTV for AirPlay and a keyboard and mouse would meet an amazing number of scenarios.

The students would have a fun device outside the classroom and a workhorse inside the classroom. Similarly, professionals would enjoy their iPhone while at home and be very productive at work.
post #58 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

This is AppleInsider comments at it's best.

All of the reasons cited for why the schools couldn't make the iPad work are being blamed on the school.  And quite so, you can see that if the schools had better administrators, a more forward thinking view of IT, better support etc. they might have been able to make the iPad work.

But hopefully Apple don't sit there and blame the school.  If Apple wants to win the schools market, and if they believe iPad is a viable solution for use in schools, they should be out there solving the problem for the schools.

If a customer doesn't buy your product, it's something you, the vendor, needs to fix.  Not the customer.

This is trolling at it's worst.

I have seen this in action. I have consulted for two different healthcare enterprises that purchased hundreds of iPads without a real plan. Incidentally, both organizations had significant layoffs.

The issue isn't that the customer didn't buy the product. The customer bought the product then realized they didn't know what to do with the devices.
Edited by MacBook Pro - 8/6/14 at 11:18am
post #59 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

Sounds to me like Apple dropped the ball here.  In their arrogance, they've not bothered to do their homework.  I.e., they should have sent teams out to pilot schools and organizations, and found out what these problems are in advance, and then fixed them.  SHOW the way to connect keyboards, OR offer the MBA. Provide seamless integration with existing educational software, SHOWING that the device works and  how it is administered. TRAIN school IT admins in how to deploy and maintain the software. TEACH developers of edu software how to code and design their apps for the iPad and/or MBA. ENSURE that "problems" are designed so that they can be viewed on an iPad easily.   Apple left too much up to chance here. That's what I mean by "arrogance".  And once they get everything working properly, then send teams out on roadshows to DEMONSTRATE FUNCTION and EASE.
Instead, it seems Apple has squandered a good bit of goodwill.

Apple has never had a strong enterprise support and training team. This may be the reason Microsoft was and is dominant in enterprise IT for so many years. I hope this is one of the issues IBM will help Apple resolve.
post #60 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

What can you do on a chromebook besides surfing the web, email, and google docs?

I'm being serious here.
What do you want to do?
http://www.maximumpc.com/can_you_survive_chromebook_alone_2014
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #61 of 386

Here's a more informative article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/08/whats-the-best-device-for-interactive-learning/375567/?single_page=true

 

IMO management of large numbers of devices is a big factor.  The Chromebook's cloud-focus makes it easier to manage accounts, software, and OS updates.  The iPads that get rolled around on a cart at my wife's school are basically individually managed devices, and updating the OSes is a time-consuming PITA, even though the iPad cart has a Macbook that they all connect to for updating/wiping.  Apple basically doesn't provide an easy and fast way of managing them and their apps.  

post #62 of 386
I can't understand the difficulties people have in relation to the keyboard. As a 'touch typist', It took me but a short time to get up to speed on my iPad, using the screen, about 100 words per minute. The odd slip was corrected. I am now 75 years old and have taking to the iPad like a duck to water. It is probably because I don't look down at the keyboard much.
post #63 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Just wait 12 months when these Chromebooks are littered with spyware/malware ect.

Won't happen. Chromebooks are as impervious to viruses and malware as a Mac. Perhaps more so.
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #64 of 386
I always love how Apple is blamed for stupid school systems.

Our school system started a one-to-one iPad program from 5th through 12th grades last year. We must have a genius school system, although I suspect average intelligence they just seem like geniuses when compared to the nimrods in this story, because they spent over a year visting schools that had implemented iPads, talking to Apple representatives, talking to textbook publishers, and sending representatives to a training on using the iPads in education.

What did they come up with? All students were provided with iPad Minis. All high school age kids are supplied with a keyboard case along with their iPads. They provide training for parents and students in pairing the 5th through 8th grader's iPads with bluetooth keyboards.

The primary issue, there are other issues but they are relatively minor and would have existed with any technology, has been that the older kids would have preferred the 10" iPad (interestingly the younger children prefer the minis and several school systems the visited found the same). Even this was already known by the school, but was one of those compromises that they had to make to get the program started. It was a money issue.

The program has been a pretty resounding success. There is already talk of organizing teams of teachers to develop their own eTextbooks, and if money is available moving the high school kids to 10" iPads when the upgrade cycle comes around next time.

All-in-all the problems mentioned in this story have much less to do with any shortcomings with the iPad than they do with the shortcomings of the school system personnel. Their lack of planning and research into a new technology is what caused these issues, not the iPads.
post #65 of 386
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post
Won't happen. Chromebooks are as impervious to viruses and malware as a Mac. Perhaps more so.


Uh...

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #66 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book
Don't know much about the French I took

What I do know is healthcare
and how poorly Managers fair
When they get iPads for free
They just don't know for what they be

Health care industry is about 20 years behind in technology. Peter Cohen recently had an article where he had to actually make a photo copy of his iPhone screen showing his current medications. 

post #67 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by crapplingpain View Post

Here's a more informative article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/08/whats-the-best-device-for-interactive-learning/375567/?single_page=true

IMO management of large numbers of devices is a big factor.  The Chromebook's cloud-focus makes it easier to manage accounts, software, and OS updates.  The iPads that get rolled around on a cart at my wife's school are basically individually managed devices, and updating the OSes is a time-consuming PITA, even though the iPad cart has a Macbook that they all connect to for updating/wiping.  Apple basically doesn't provide an easy and fast way of managing them and their apps.  

This is absolute rubbish.

Apple not only provides their own software, Apple Configurator, but offers a significant number of APIs for third party software for mobile device management with significantly more features than Google Chromebook Management Console.
post #68 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Won't happen. Chromebooks are as impervious to viruses and malware as a Mac. Perhaps more so.

 

Huh?

 

You don't consider Google Inc Spyware????

post #69 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by crapplingpain View Post
 

Here's a more informative article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/08/whats-the-best-device-for-interactive-learning/375567/?single_page=true

 

IMO management of large numbers of devices is a big factor.  The Chromebook's cloud-focus makes it easier to manage accounts, software, and OS updates.  The iPads that get rolled around on a cart at my wife's school are basically individually managed devices, and updating the OSes is a time-consuming PITA, even though the iPad cart has a Macbook that they all connect to for updating/wiping.  Apple basically doesn't provide an easy and fast way of managing them and their apps.  

 

this is wrong.  so wrong.

post #70 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmac View Post

If they think iPads have shortcomings, wait till they try Chromebooks. Chromebooks only give you the web, and no programs at all. If keyboards are the issue, that would have been a cheaper solution.
Give them time. They'll be changing their tune soon enough. Chromebook? I'm surprise they didn't go for surface pros with the keyboards or MacBooks. Chromebooks? What a joke?
post #71 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Uh...



post #72 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

Rebuttal: Apple should be highlighting how brain-dead these people are. Show them why keyboards aren’t necessary, etc.

 

No argument here. But telling people they're brain-dead is not an effective strategy to win friends and influence people....

 

Though I must admit that telling the folks at Apple that they're arrogant and didn't do their homework probably won't win them as friends or influence them, either.  ;)

post #73 of 386

Again - what can you do on a chromebook besides surf the net, email, and google docs?

 

Sounds like Netbook 2.0

post #74 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post
 

This is AppleInsider comments at it's best.

 

All of the reasons cited for why the schools couldn't make the iPad work are being blamed on the school.  And quite so, you can see that if the schools had better administrators, a more forward thinking view of IT, better support etc. they might have been able to make the iPad work.

 

But hopefully Apple don't sit there and blame the school.  If Apple wants to win the schools market, and if they believe iPad is a viable solution for use in schools, they should be out there solving the problem for the schools.

 

If a customer doesn't buy your product, it's something you, the vendor, needs to fix.  Not the customer.

 

well that's kinda what I said.

post #75 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkerst View Post

Health care industry is about 20 years behind in technology. Peter Cohen recently had an article where he had to actually make a photo copy of his iPhone screen showing his current medications. 

Your statements don't support your claim very well.
post #76 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post

I always love how Apple is blamed for stupid school systems.
...
All-in-all the problems mentioned in this story have much less to do with any shortcomings with the iPad than they do with the shortcomings of the school system personnel. Their lack of planning and research into a new technology is what caused these issues, not the iPads.

 

That doesn't change the importance of knowing your customer.  If you want to sell 'em something, you gotta 'splain to 'em why to buy, using short words what they understand.   ;)

post #77 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Again - what can you do on a chromebook besides surf the net, email, and google docs?

Sounds like Netbook 2.0
What do you want to do?
https://www.google.com/chrome/education/webstore/app-packs.html
http://www.cnet.com/news/living-with-chromebook-can-you-use-it-to-actually-get-work-done/
http://www.maximumpc.com/can_you_survive_chromebook_alone_2014
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post #78 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybleiss View Post

Weird comparison... if they wanted the "work horse", then they should have bought MacBooks and not iPads...

 

Agreed.  It sounds like the schools didn't do due diligence to research whether the iPad met their needs (or didn't understand their needs well enough).

 

Educational pricing for the bottom tier MacBook Airs is more than the iPad cost, but if it meets your needs better it may be worth it. 

You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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You did not come into the world to fail. You came into the world to succeed.

- Gordon Hinckley

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post #79 of 386
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
No argument here. But telling people they're brain-dead is not an effective strategy to win friends and influence people....

 

Not if it’s not backed up with fact! But “You’re morons; here’s why...” can be an effective tool at embarrassment, which is one of the greatest teachers of all.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #80 of 386

 

thats such a limited library

 

After a year or two these chromebooks will be so slow and obsolete you need to trash them.

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