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post #81 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

thats such a limited library
What's missing?
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post #82 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Again - what can you do on a chromebook besides surf the net, email, and google docs?

Sounds like Netbook 2.0

I am sure you will notice that Chromebook proponents conveniently "forget" the supposed importance of Adobe Creative Cloud, AutoDesk AutoCAD, Microsoft Office and so forth whilst never forgetting the necessity for the same apps on Apple iOS.

If iOS isn't a viable productivity solution then ChromeOS is lightyears from being productivity solution.
post #83 of 386

Principal:  Here are our iPads everyone!!!

 

Teacher: OMG! iPads dont have keyboards!!!

 

Yup.  Gotta be Apples fault right there.

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post #84 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


What's missing?

 

Um. Everything i use. 

 

 

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post #85 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Um. Everything i use. 


Are you in Elementary, Middle or High School?

Clairification: Because that's who those apps are for.
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/11/14 at 12:58pm
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post #86 of 386

We've seen many schools all around the world adopting iPads, I believe some of the first actually were from Ireland and we've all read great success stories about how they really revolutionized learning.

 

Now that more schools are deploying them it is only natural that some come back and say it didn't really suit their needs, I guess. Especially if requirements were never really identified, as it seems in this case.

 

However, I would agree that for certain types of higher level education laptops might actually be more useful. And I would have believed this whole story if the school district in question would be switching to full fledged Macs or even Windows machines. But they're not. They're switching to machines that come with a physical keyboard but without any software whatsoever.

 

I would imagine that actually finding high quality educational content for Chromebooks will prove extremely hard. Especially highly interactive content with 3D animations, embedded playgrounds, etc. So it really seems the issue was 1) pure word processing and 2) school IT incapable of properly administering devices.

 

Either way, that's not my point. I would actually be extremely concerned if my child is forced by the school to create a Google account. That's what I can't get over when thinking about this whole thing. That's like forcing school children to sign up with Facebook. Google Docs all nice and fine, but how to they justify actually making your child create an account with a company that lives and provides these services thanks to the data they collect from you, the user. Were I a parent of one of those unfortunate children, I'd be going bonkers over this. Google is not a product company, they're not offering their products for sale, they're offering whatever they can in order to lure you into their services and get their hands on as much data about you as possible.

 

This is very different from signing up for iCloud, One Drive or MS Office subscriptions, which are companion services and where your user data is not used for profiling and advertising but for actually providing the service.

 

Luckily my daughter's school seems quite into these things. They actually require the parents to provide (explicitly) a MacBook Pro for their children starting from secondary, although I've seen some MacBook Airs being accepted as well as of recent. The good thing is they teach them various systems and applications for accomplishing the same tasks (MS Office, iWork, LibreOffice, etc), so I'm quite happy about that.

post #87 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

I am sure you will notice that Chromebook proponents conveniently "forget" the supposed importance of Adobe Creative Cloud, AutoDesk AutoCAD, Microsoft Office and so forth whilst never forgetting the necessity for the same apps on Apple iOS.

If iOS isn't a viable productivity solution then ChromeOS is lightyears from being productivity solution.

For classes that benefit from an Adobe design product then something other than a Chromebook would be the better choice. I don't think anyone believes there's any single product that's the best choice for each and every education need.
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post #88 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybleiss View Post

Weird comparison... if they wanted the "work horse", then they should have bought MacBooks and not iPads...

That $499 price tag is much more attractive.

post #89 of 386
Everything depends upon how the technology will be used. What I'm absolutely certain of, however, is the almost zero teachers, administrators, school districts have a clue what role, if any, any tech device should have.

In the hands of school districts and administrators and teachers, there is no doubt in my mind that use of tech is and will remain a distraction and certainly not incorporated as a useful object to help students learn.

The software currently available, including book readers, such as Kindle and iBooks have no features which support how people (including students) actually best learn. That same is true for ChromeBooks.
post #90 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Huh?

You don't consider Google Inc Spyware????

First rule they teach in anti-Apple trolling courses: trust Google, always. Everyone else is untrustworthy. It's even on the final exam.

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post #91 of 386
Ouch. I can see the fun vs work mindset arise. And daily managing 1000 iPads probably being a life in misery. If it was just the keyboard, there are good clam shell covers for that. But I definitely see the need of a configurable system that can fit into the school system nicely.. Perhaps with the new IBM initiative this could become real?
post #92 of 386
Quote:
 "At the end of the year, I was upset that we didn't get the iPads," Hillsborough science teacher Larissa McCann told the publication. "But as soon as I got the Chromebook and the kids started using it, I saw, 'Okay, this is definitely much more useful.'"

 

Did no one else catch this? Maybe its just me - but that appears to say that a Chromebook that you actually have is definitely much more useful than an iPad which you do not have. 

 

Does it not say "I was upset that we didn't get the iPads"?

 

Or is the implication here that she is suggesting that the Chromebooks are more useful that some imagined potential use of the iPad? or what she perceives the usefulness of iPads to be in other grades/departments where iPads have already been used? 

post #93 of 386

Apple perhaps missed an opportunity by not sitting down with these guys to understand their basic requirements. They could have built something to the exact specs. The iPad was never designed to be an educational workhorse. Maybe that is what they will do now...

post #94 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
 

Sounds to me like Apple dropped the ball here.  In their arrogance, they've not bothered to do their homework.  I.e., they should have sent teams out to pilot schools and organizations, and found out what these problems are in advance, and then fixed them.  SHOW the way to connect keyboards, OR offer the MBA. Provide seamless integration with existing educational software, SHOWING that the device works and  how it is administered. TRAIN school IT admins in how to deploy and maintain the software. TEACH developers of edu software how to code and design their apps for the iPad and/or MBA. ENSURE that "problems" are designed so that they can be viewed on an iPad easily.   Apple left too much up to chance here. That's what I mean by "arrogance".  And once they get everything working properly, then send teams out on roadshows to DEMONSTRATE FUNCTION and EASE.

Instead, it seems Apple has squandered a good bit of goodwill.

you can get a chrome book or windows laptop with a larger (not better) screen for that same $499 list price.  Apple isn't discounting MBAs that much.

 

As for the software, I think Apple did assume that authoring would keep up with their innovation, but in reality, most teachers would just want to 'blog' a set of problems, and let their students type and email  in the answers.   A chrome book is fine for that (and gmail and google docs, etc.)

The biggest thing we are dealing with are teachers moving from books with handouts, handwritten math tess, overheads/chalkboards AND PCs to a fully online classroom.   Apple doesn't have the sort of classroom integration blocking and tackling, that Google Apps has, even share point.   

 

Yes, Apple jumped into the water, not knowing how deep or shallow it was, assuming that those lumps of PCs in the corner could be easily defeated by digital textbooks and iPads.   The teaching profession wasn't ready, and their '20 years invested' in learning how to use a PC in the classroom, PC based  grading, etc etc, wasn't overcome by whizzy apps and authoring tools...

 

I think your points are well presented, however, I think Apple wanted the apps and the authoring people to do that legwork.  Sort of chicken and the egg.

 

This will be several years in the making.   I'm not worried about kids and the school supplied devices.  Colleges, that's another story.

post #95 of 386
I'll try to keep this short...

I'm a middle school / high school math and tech ed teacher who has given district wide professional development on how to use the iPad in the classroom. I've used iPads, iPhones, iPads, Android tablets, MacBooks, and Apple TV in the classroom with students in a variety of ways. I think there are bigger questions educators must ask themselves before purchasing any new tech as it's not cheap and it matters what experiences we offer for students.

Q: Does my lesson develop 21st century skills?
A: Yes, if students are genuinely thinking critically, communicating, collaborating, and being creative.

Q: How will new tech in the classroom support my lesson?
The answer depends on how creative the teacher is with incorporating technology with lessons in meaningful ways.

Personally, from experience, I think of "post PC devices" (smart phones & tablets) as the new graphing calculator, but 10 times better!. In it's day, the graphing calculator was this awesome multi tool that students in math classes would love if the teacher knew how to incorporate it in a meaningful way with the lesson, and if the teacher was successful, the student would learn the calculator functions and use it to their advantage to tackle math problems on their own. Fast forward to today, and the post PC devices are becoming not only amazing multi tools useful in all subjects, but they are fun to use and everyone is familiar with how they operate.

Chromebook? No, it's not a post PC device the same way smart phones and tablets are.

iPad? Yes, it's the clear dominant post PC device.

FYI, for those upset about price and keyboards. Show me a student in middle and high school that would have a hard time thumbing in anything on an iPod touch. It's cheaper than an iPad, easy to input with, email, search web, tweet, take pictures, draw, communicate, collaborate, think critically and creative.
post #96 of 386

I could see the argument that laptops better than a tablet for students.  Tablets also more expensive and smaller screen.  A cheap laptop or chromebook is a better option IMHO.  Add a keyboard to a tablet and you have a very expensive piece of hardware compared to something like a chromebook.  

 

If apple had a larger 12" ipad that was also very light and the same price point as a chromebook then it would be a good option but that won't ever happen.  

 

Big headwind for apple.  Mfg's are going to try and get laptops to schools for under 100 bucks or free even.  Hard to compete with that.

post #97 of 386

I have almost zero doubt that Google with the Chromebook will dominate the educational system within five years or so. I owned a Samsung Chromebook a couple years back and I would consider it perfect for schools and students. iPads are too expensive (especially with keyboard peripherals) and never intended to get real work done. A school that runs on the cheap Google Apps platform and uses the Chromebook ends up saving money on the hardware and software. The only way I can see Apple maybe curbing this is too release an iPad Pro with an Apple designed keyboard and productivity features, or releasing an Macbook Air (Educational Edition) with a lower price tag (and lower specs). Even then they could never catch Google on price.

 

Not intending to trash Apple here. I have an iPad Air and a Macbook Pro and love them both. But I tried to use my iPad Air with an attached keyboard for class and schoolwork, even with the new Microsoft Office. I simply struggled to edit documents, get my keyboard to pair, or i'd forget to charge the peripheral entirely. So I coughed up and got a Macbook and put Office on it. Obviously I have my own expendable income, and i'd understand a school's hesitation on such expensive pieces of machinery. I think Chromebooks are the middle ground here.

 

College students should however forget a Chromebook and get a Macbook Air/Pro without hesitation though.

post #98 of 386
The meaningful comparison here is the results, not the specs of the equipment. Which students do better? Those from school systems using iPads? Or those using ChromeBooks?
post #99 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by koop View Post
 

I have almost zero doubt that Google with the Chromebook will dominate the educational system within five years or so. I owned a Samsung Chromebook a couple years back and I would consider it perfect for schools and students. iPads are too expensive (especially with keyboard peripherals) and never intended to get real work done. A school that runs on the cheap Google Apps platform and uses the Chromebook ends up saving money on the hardware and software. The only way I can see Apple maybe curbing this is too release an iPad Pro with an Apple designed keyboard and productivity features, or releasing an Macbook Air (Educational Edition) with a lower price tag (and lower specs). Even then they could never catch Google on price.

 

 

If price was the key the Netbooks would have dominated education 5 years ago.

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post #100 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

If price was the key the Netbooks would have dominated education 5 years ago.

 

Netbooks did everything badly. Chromebooks do one thing well. Google Apps just wasn't "there" five years ago either.

post #101 of 386

So I'm completely wrong.  Thanks.

post #102 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzypaws View Post

I would tend to think that if Apple is pushing iPads for school or work deployment, a keyboard case/stand would be standard issue. And if it's not, that's a failure of their marketing. Maybe this is the sort of thing they need IBM to help them wrap their heads around.

 

huh? whats stopping schools/offices from deploying iPad keyboards as standard today? how can that be apple's fault? these aren't secret accessories...

post #103 of 386
The Education systems that do not know about attaching keyboards to iPads says more about the administrators and teachers than the iPads.
post #104 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Not if it’s not backed up with fact! But “You’re morons; here’s why...” can be an effective tool at embarrassment, which is one of the greatest teachers of all.

 

I'm thinking that highly effective teachers and highly effective salespeople will both disagree with you.  As I am neither, I can't really say for sure.

post #105 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by koop View Post
 

 

Netbooks did everything badly. Chromebooks do one thing well. Google Apps just wasn't "there" five years ago either.

 

Thats exactly the problem.

 

They do only ONE THING.  Once schools realize this they will dump it. 

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post #106 of 386
Originally Posted by navpro33 View Post
So I'm completely wrong.  Thanks.


Your evidence that the iPad cannot be used for content creation is where, exactly?

post #107 of 386
Wolfram Alpha App, Ithoughts HD app, Keynote, Paper53, and Soulver should be enough to challenge anyone. The thing about any classroom technology that makes it pointless, is that it is not personal technology. If you can't send and receive info via email or whatever, then the instrument is not much of a tool.
post #108 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

The chromebookes used in my 13y/o nephew's school system has been a disaster. My nephew always approaches me to help me diagnose/fix his chromebook, resolve WiFi connectivity issues, and spends more time getting fixed (under warranty) than he gets to use it.

Is this what the school system thinks is "useful"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

What can you do on a chromebook besides surfing the web, email, and google docs?

I'm being serious here.

For school kids a chromebook is fine for learning. And far cheaper. You can do a lot more than what you stated. But going back to school a chromebook is fine. An iPad is fine too. Not pushing one or the other.
post #109 of 386
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
Im thinking that highly effective teachers...

 

Certainly you’ll never see it here, but from peers it’s pervasive. Apple should network with corporations that switched to iPads and get THEM to berate the morons who forgo them.

post #110 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechManMike View Post
 

For instance, if I were in middle school or high school and was given and iPad, my primary method of taking notes wouldn't be typing them, it would be recording the teacher's lesson with a simple voice recorder app.

This cannot be an efficient.  Reading the notes of a 1 hour lesson takes 10 minutes, listening the recording takes an hour.  In order to fully master the content of the lesson for the exams, you need to read/listen 2 or 3 times, so the audo recording is not really practical.

 

Anf taking notes is a lot easier on a device with an integrated keyboard and a 13" screen.

post #111 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Thats exactly the problem.

They do only ONE THING.  Once schools realize this they will dump it. 

You haven't actually read thru any one of the three links I gave you? I'm pretty sure you never actually tried a Chromebook for even a few minutes either. What are you basing your opinion on?
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post #112 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Thats exactly the problem.

 

They do only ONE THING.  Once schools realize this they will dump it. 

"Marshall's experience with Chrome­books doesn't surprise Bob O'Donnell, who surveyed K–12 Chromebook early adopters for research firm IDC. "We found that the Chromebook's more reliable operation significantly reduced time lost in the classroom due to PC downtime, help desk calls and operating system maintenance," says O'Donnell, IDC's ­program vice president for clients and displays. "This translated to an average savings of $84 per device in productivity."

That proved to be the case for Iowa's Council Bluffs Community School District, which beta-tested 500 Chromebooks for its 9,000 students in early 2011, before they became commercially available to the masses.

According to Director of Information Systems David Fringer, CBCSD teachers "transition frequently from lids up to lids down and back." With Chromebooks, he says, "it takes only four to five seconds before the ­computers are up again."

Today, the district owns about 4,300 Chromebooks. All ninth- through 12th-grade students at CBCSD's two high schools received Chromebooks for the current school year. Students in the other 16 schools also have access to the devices, which are kept on mobile carts. Fringer says the district will expand the one-to-one program to students in grades six through eight during the 2013–2014 school year and to third- through fifth-grade students the following year."

 

http://www.edtechmagazine.com/k12/article/2012/12/why-schools-are-turning-google-chromebooks

post #113 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


You haven't actually read thru any one of the three links I gave you? I'm pretty sure you never actually tried a Chromebook for even a few minutes either. What are you basing your opinion on?

 

any hardware Google makes is piss poor and 2nd rate

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post #114 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by crapplingpain View Post
 

"Marshall's experience with Chrome­books doesn't surprise Bob O'Donnell, who surveyed K–12 Chromebook early adopters for research firm IDC. "We found that the Chromebook's more reliable operation significantly reduced time lost in the classroom due to PC downtime, help desk calls and operating system maintenance," says O'Donnell, IDC's ­program vice president for clients and displays. "This translated to an average savings of $84 per device in productivity."

That proved to be the case for Iowa's Council Bluffs Community School District, which beta-tested 500 Chromebooks for its 9,000 students in early 2011, before they became commercially available to the masses.

According to Director of Information Systems David Fringer, CBCSD teachers "transition frequently from lids up to lids down and back." With Chromebooks, he says, "it takes only four to five seconds before the ­computers are up again."

Today, the district owns about 4,300 Chromebooks. All ninth- through 12th-grade students at CBCSD's two high schools received Chromebooks for the current school year. Students in the other 16 schools also have access to the devices, which are kept on mobile carts. Fringer says the district will expand the one-to-one program to students in grades six through eight during the 2013–2014 school year and to third- through fifth-grade students the following year."

 

http://www.edtechmagazine.com/k12/article/2012/12/why-schools-are-turning-google-chromebooks

 

2nd class education

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post #115 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


You haven't actually read thru any one of the three links I gave you? I'm pretty sure you never actually tried a Chromebook for even a few minutes either. What are you basing your opinion on?

The prevailing theory here is that "if it's not Apple it's crap."  It's amusing to see folks here shocked that some schools prefer Chromebooks.  They're half the price and apparently do what the schools need.  I love my iPad, but pounding out a research paper on it would be a huge PITA.  Forcing schools to spend $40 on a BT keyboard (or $79 for the Apple version) is not a good idea because it's more money that they don't have.

post #116 of 386
Unless you are programming, the iPad should be enough for most students. I am using my iPad for my Master's as well as writing an e-book. What's the issue? My iPad keyboard is fine. Granted I can only type with two to three fingers...

I would guess to assume the decision to purchase Chromebooks was political instead of objective. I would also assume that most IT Departments are behind in their mobile efforts and the people making the decisions are not well informed.

It's not rocket science... Chromebooks instead of iPads is just a poor choice by inept IT managers and teachers.

Good luck with that garbage...
post #117 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


You haven't actually read thru any one of the three links I gave you? I'm pretty sure you never actually tried a Chromebook for even a few minutes either. What are you basing your opinion on?

Probably personal bias.  ;-)  

 

From what I've read, and from what I know of my wife's issues with iPads at her school, the ease-of-management and cloud storage of data and accounts is a huge reason to choose Chromebooks over iPads.  My wife loves her iPad as do I (iPad 3 and also a Nexus 7).  But if I had to manage a few hundred for a school, it certainly wouldn't be my first choice.  Yes, iPads have a huge array of educational apps available but they're not nearly as important as the ability to collaborate with other students, work on school work, browse the web (even now, there are websites that simply work better on a laptop) and exchange homework and information with the teachers.  iPads are great for lending out in the learning commons room when kids want to explore with learning apps, but for day-to-day classroom assignments, the apps available for Chromebooks are more than enough.

post #118 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by cropr View Post

This cannot be an efficient.  Reading the notes of a 1 hour lesson takes 10 minutes, listening the recording takes an hour.  In order to fully master the content of the lesson for the exams, you need to read/listen 2 or 3 times, so the audo recording is not really practical.

Anf taking notes is a lot easier on a device with an integrated keyboard and a 13" screen.

I'm sorry but you're just wrong, and as a person that's currently a student with an iPad, laptop and desktop, I can tell you that recording a lecture is way more efficient than scrambling to even type notes while remember what was said that you're currently writing, while also trying to listen to what's still being said. There's a big difference between doing something efficiently and doing something quickly. Reviewing a few notes that have been typed CAN be done more quickly, but efficiency is understanding the concepts, not just the facts. Understanding the concept is more easily done by listening then re-listening to something in full as opposed to memorizing only the few broken notes that you were able to type. I'm a fast type, but I'd much rather only have to pay attention to the lecture and give it my full attention while not having to type. I can then also go and listen to it a second time while dissecting it and writing about it. Don't confuse efficiency with doing something quickly, because efficiency doesn't ONLY encompass time.
post #119 of 386
Everyone who thinks you can't create on an iPad needs to look at the Apple adverts. Education is not just about typing up reports and spreadsheets. What about using GarageBand for music lessons, can you bring up a piano keyboard on a chromebook? The same with creating videos for drama, or using the camera to record videos of sports and analyse sporting techniques etc. The schools need to think outside the box and realise how creative you can be on an iPad.
post #120 of 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by koop View Post
 

 

Netbooks did everything badly. Chromebooks do one thing well. Google Apps just wasn't "there" five years ago either.

But for teachers and school districts coming from a PC background, Chromebooks and Google Apps are most of what they need.

1) distribute reading material  (PDF, HTML, HTML5 reader of book formats)

2) distribute assignments

3) retrieve written assignments

4) take canned tests

5) communicate grades back to students (and parents).

 

That's about it.   There is some really cool stuff out there, but for 80% of the classrooms, that's about it.

 

There is one thing an chrome book is a lot better than an iPad... reading page from book, and answering the assignment in a text entry mode (Assignment:  Answer the questions on page 42, email your answers to me by noon tomorrow).

For Apple... the 'book' has to be in their authoring format.  For Google, it can be anything displayed by chrome, as you can open up a 2nd window and easily navigate between the two.    

 

I'm studying for a certification, and I've got 4 windows up all the time (text, test, notes, and appleinsider;-)

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