or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Authors to rebuke Amazon over Hachette dispute with full-page NYT ad
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Authors to rebuke Amazon over Hachette dispute with full-page NYT ad - Page 2

post #41 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No; just prefacing.

WHEN Amazon is found to be illegally abusing their monopoly standing, Apple’s case could be overturned and Amazon could very well pay a huge fine.

Antitrust laws unfortunately don't prosecute monopolies that result from natural market forces (i.e., one competitor beating the rest) as opposed to monopolies formed by conspiracies between competitors. I'd argue that in either case, market pricing is effectively not set by the market.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #42 of 84
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
Antitrust laws unfortunately don't prosecute monopolies that result from natural market forces (i.e., one competitor beating the rest) as opposed to monopolies formed by conspiracies between competitors.

 

Amazon has illegally conspired to “beat” the rest. Does that count?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #43 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
Antitrust laws unfortunately don't prosecute monopolies that result from natural market forces (i.e., one competitor beating the rest) as opposed to monopolies formed by conspiracies between competitors.

 

Amazon has illegally conspired to “beat” the rest. Does that count?

How? And if so have you made a formal complaint about their illegal practices to the correct agencies?
post #44 of 84
Why all the hate for amazon? Do you all want to continue paying stupid prices for your digital books that cost almost nothing to disturbute. E-books should be much much cheaper than printed versions, at least half the price, likely more.

Amazon are fighting here to lower the prices where publishers are trying to protect there huge margins that they simply do not deserve in the new digital world.
post #45 of 84
Originally Posted by Smarky View Post
Do you all want to continue paying stupid prices for your digital books that cost almost nothing to disturbute.


Yeah, you know that isn’t the argument.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #46 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarky View Post

Why all the hate for amazon? Do you all want to continue paying stupid prices for your digital books that cost almost nothing to disturbute. E-books should be much much cheaper than printed versions, at least half the price, likely more.

Amazon are fighting here to lower the prices where publishers are trying to protect there huge margins that they simply do not deserve in the new digital world.

What's wrong with protecting huge margins? Are they not allowed to make money?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #47 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdchet View Post

Hmm. Is Amazon the only place you can buy books?

 

It wasn't, until Amazon put most brick and mortar bookstores out of business.

post #48 of 84
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

 

Amazon: "It's also important to understand that e-books are highly price-elastic. This means that when the price goes up, customers buy much less. We've quantified the price elasticity of e-books from repeated measurements across many titles. For every copy an e-book would sell at $14.99, it would sell 1.74 copies if priced at $9.99. So, for example, if customers would buy 100,000 copies of a particular e-book at $14.99, then customers would buy 174,000 copies of that same e-book at $9.99. Total revenue at $14.99 would be $1,499,000. Total revenue at $9.99 is $1,738,000."

 

 

This math only works in a world where Amazon has a monopoly on the printed book market.


Edited by freediverx - 8/9/14 at 2:23pm
post #49 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarky View Post

Why all the hate for amazon? Do you all want to continue paying stupid prices for your digital books that cost almost nothing to disturbute. E-books should be much much cheaper than printed versions, at least half the price, likely more.

Amazon are fighting here to lower the prices where publishers are trying to protect there huge margins that they simply do not deserve in the new digital world.

 

Wow, you're either an Amazon shill or totally clueless.What makes you think that the value of a book is derived primarily from its manufacturing and distribution costs? How much would you pay for a book, printed or digital, that contained nothing but crap? The content is the most valuable part. If Amazon is successful in putting publishers out of business, they will truly be able to dictate book prices which will not leave much of an incentive for the best writers out there.

post #50 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Not exactly a match made in heaven, but I sure do hope that this takes off, and gives publishers and authors alike some ammo against Amazon.

http://nytimes.com/2014/08/07/business/media/google-and-barnes-noble-unite-to-take-on-amazon.html?referrer=


I'd like to believe otherwise, but I don't think this will go anywhere.

post #51 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarky View Post

Why all the hate for amazon? Do you all want to continue paying stupid prices for your digital books that cost almost nothing to disturbute. E-books should be much much cheaper than printed versions, at least half the price, likely more.

Amazon are fighting here to lower the prices where publishers are trying to protect there huge margins that they simply do not deserve in the new digital world.

 

Wow, you're either an Amazon shill or totally clueless.What makes you think that the value of a book is derived primarily from its manufacturing and distribution costs? How much would you pay for a book, printed or digital, that contained nothing but crap? The content is the most valuable part. If Amazon is successful in putting publishers out of business, they will truly be able to dictate book prices which will not leave much of an incentive for the best writers out there.

Of course the content is the most valuable part. That's why the publishers want the control to set the the price.

[URL] http://brennaaubrey.net/2013/12/08/in-which-i-explain-why-i-turned-down-a-three-book-new-york-print-deal-to-self-publish/[/URL]

The publishers are not paragons of virtue, they are wedded to the old business model that protects there profit margin and keeps authors, the content creators, in their back pockets. The future is staring at them and they can see their relavence is going to diminish but they will fight tooth and nail to protect it.
Wether it's Amazon, Apple or another company that disrupts them it's going to happen.
post #52 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post


Of course the content is the most valuable part. That's why the publishers want the control to set the the price.

[URL] http://brennaaubrey.net/2013/12/08/in-which-i-explain-why-i-turned-down-a-three-book-new-york-print-deal-to-self-publish/[/URL]

The publishers are not paragons of virtue, they are wedded to the old business model that protects there profit margin and keeps authors, the content creators, in their back pockets. The future is staring at them and they can see their relavence is going to diminish but they will fight tooth and nail to protect it.
Wether it's Amazon, Apple or another company that disrupts them it's going to happen.


Which do you think would be better for writers and readers in the long term, a book market controlled by hundreds of book publishers competing with each other while looking out for their own interests, or one controlled entirely by Amazon?

post #53 of 84
Dear Mr. Bezos,

Stop being a bozo.

Yours,
Customers
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #54 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post


Of course the content is the most valuable part. That's why the publishers want the control to set the the price.

[URL] http://brennaaubrey.net/2013/12/08/in-which-i-explain-why-i-turned-down-a-three-book-new-york-print-deal-to-self-publish/[/URL]

The publishers are not paragons of virtue, they are wedded to the old business model that protects there profit margin and keeps authors, the content creators, in their back pockets. The future is staring at them and they can see their relavence is going to diminish but they will fight tooth and nail to protect it.
Wether it's Amazon, Apple or another company that disrupts them it's going to happen.


Which do you think would be better for writers and readers in the long term, a book market controlled by hundreds of book publishers competing with each other while looking out for their own interests, or one controlled entirely by Amazon?

It depends, like the music industry the publishers are use to having one sided contracts where the content creators make the least.
Apple showed the music industry that once you lose the distribution in the digital age your never going to get it back and the power shifts(in my opinion this also explains the beats purchase, Apple getting their hands on the digital streaming system)
post #55 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post


It depends, like the music industry the publishers are use to having one sided contracts where the content creators make the least.
Apple showed the music industry that once you lose the distribution in the digital age your never going to get it back and the power shifts(in my opinion this also explains the beats purchase, Apple getting their hands on the digital streaming system)

 

I'm not questioning whether book publishers are greedy or whether they're destined for well earned irrelevance. Just saying it would be terrible for this power to shift to single company, and especially for that company to be Amazon. With Amazon in charge, both consumers and writers will be screwed in the long run. Amazon is just entering a phase where people start to realize they could become the Walmart of the internet, with all the associated negative connotations.

 

Apple is the only company I know of with both the ability to lead such a disruption and the virtue to do it in a way that balances the needs of both writers and consumers. (ducks for impending barrage of fanboy accusations) Unfortunately our laughable justice system has sided with Amazon in a brilliant display of judicial myopia.


Edited by freediverx - 8/9/14 at 3:49pm
post #56 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post


It depends, like the music industry the publishers are use to having one sided contracts where the content creators make the least.
Apple showed the music industry that once you lose the distribution in the digital age your never going to get it back and the power shifts(in my opinion this also explains the beats purchase, Apple getting their hands on the digital streaming system)

 

I'm not questioning whether book publishers are headed for irrelevance or whether they deserve it. Just saying it would be terrible for this power to shift to single company, and especially for that company to be Amazon. Apple is the only company I know of with both the ability to lead such a disruption and the virtue to do what's right for writers and consumers alike. (ducks for impending barrage of fanboy accusations)

oi fanboy!! Lol
Yes it would be dangerous for one company to be the sole supplier. But I'm not going to feel sorry for an industry that ensures only the very very successful actually make near the money they could.
As for wether Apple having the "virtue" maybe now but as the saying goes "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely ".
post #57 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

It depends, like the music industry the publishers are use to having one sided contracts where the content creators make the least.

Apple showed the music industry that once you lose the distribution in the digital age your never going to get it back and the power shifts(in my opinion this also explains the beats purchase, Apple getting their hands on the digital streaming system)

I'm not questioning whether book publishers are headed for irrelevance or whether they deserve it. Just saying it would be terrible for this power to shift to single company, and especially for that company to be Amazon. With Amazon in charge, both consumers and writers will be screwed in the long run.

Apple is the only company I know of with both the ability to lead such a disruption and the virtue to do what's right for writers and consumers alike. (ducks for impending barrage of fanboy accusations)

I agree.

The best solution would be for Apple to shut down Amazon's digital bookshop, or for Amazon to go bankrupt; with luck, one of these will happen in the next five years.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #58 of 84

God, you Apple fanbois are ridiculous! You need to get your news from other sources besides Apple fanboi sites.

 

 

SUNDAY, JULY 13, 2014

Amazon-Hachette: The Sounds of Silence - A Guest Post by William Ockham

 
Everybody's talking about Amazon's latest move in the Amazon-Hachette kerfuffle and the reactions have been pretty predictable. Lots of confirmation bias going around. While the public broadsides, grand offers, and nasty anonymous leaks are full of sound and fury, I'm fond of looking for the truth in the silence. What the companies aren't saying is as important to understanding the situation as what they are saying. I'm not sure if anyone has noticed, but neither side has denied any of the specific factual claims the other has made. In fact, if we read between the lines, we can cut through the noise and see what's really happening. I have learned* the best way to do that is to make a timeline. Our brains have a tendency to remember the order in which we learned a set of facts and it has a hard to reassembling the chronological order of how things actually happened. We should be continually re-evaluating our understanding of this situation based on new information. 
 
[Edited. See original article for timeline]
 
What does the timeline tell us? 
 
1. Hachette did not negotiate in good faith before the end of the contract. 
 
They didn't negotiate at all. Amazon and Hachette agree on this crucial point. The first Hachette offer was in April.  Amazon says the original contract ran out in March and Hachette hasn't denied it. In my view, the party that makes no attempt to negotiate during the term of the original contract is the instigator of the stand-off.
 
2. Hachette knew for months that their authors were being harmed and they did nothing. 
 
Sullivan noticed that the usual Amazon discounts on his titles were gone on February 7. He saw the inventory issues on March 9. He let Hachette know about both issues. At that point Hachette had let their contract expire without so much as a counter-offer. 
 
3. We can't know for sure, but it looks like Sullivan was the catalyst for the issues becoming public. 
 
Look closely at the timeline. 
 
4. Hachette was able to pull off a complex, multi-million dollar acquisition of a smaller publisher, but unwilling to fund either of Amazon's offers to help the affected authors. 
 
The publishing half of Perseus was estimated to have revenues in the $100 million range. That's a pretty big deal in the publishing world.
 
5. Since the dispute became public, Hachette has essentially abandoned the negotiations in favor of a concerted public relations campaign. 
 
Hachette's last offer was in May around the time the affair became public. Amazon sent them another offer on June 5. Hachette has orchestrated a high-profile publicity campaign with big name authors, a popular TV host, and the publishing industry press taking up Hachette's cause. Hachette has even enlisted the New York Times to play stenographer for them.
 
6. Hachette has a powerful incentive to drag this out.
 
To achieve its goal, Hachette needs to delay the final agreement until late 2014 or early 2015. That is the earliest time they will be able to conclude an agreement with Amazon that restricts Amazon's ability to discount ebooks. Moreover, developments in Apple's ongoing appeal could substantially impact Hachette's negotiating position. An Apple loss or settlement would make reaching an agency deal (with no discounting) almost impossible because Amazon is not going to agree to let Apple underprice them on ebooks.
 
*I learned to make timelines like this from Marcy Wheeler, who is so smart Barry Eisler named a character in his John Rain series after her.
 
Joe sez: All great points and conclusions, William. 
 
As per your call that the NYT has become Hachette's stenographer, what appears to be a level-headed post in the NYT today gets several things wrong. It mentions Amazon offers 35% e-royalties compared to legacy publishing's 25%, but doesn't mention that's gross, not net. It doesn't mention the letter signed by over 7000 people--authors and readers--supporting Amazon. It assumes this battle is about Amazon taking money from Hachette, but misses the whole point that Hachette wants to control ebook prices. And it ends on a note of paranoia.
 
There is fear here. It's somewhat odd, considering the record profits publishers are making and boasting about, but when you think about the long run the fear is warranted. Publishers once ruled the roost. They had the key to the gate, and control over price and distribution. Readers and writers were at their mercy.
 
And now, suddenly, we're not. 
 
Publishers and their pundits (I'm looking at you Mike Shatzkin and Digital Book Word) refuse to believe or even acknowledge the data on www.AuthorEarnings.com, and most of them believe that ebook sales are plateauing. In fact, they are continuing to grow at a rapid pace, because of indies. But no survey or data collection shows how big the self-pub shadow industry is, so the legacy world remains clueless as to many sales they are actually losing.
 
This is a slippery slope, because more and more authors are figuring it out.
 
Readers want ebooks, and they want to shop on Amazon. Most writers, even those who cling to their legacy masters with Stockholm Syndrome allegiance, know the royalty difference between what their publishers pays them and what they can get on their own. As bookstores close (hello Barnes & Noble) and the paper midlist becomes unsustainable, even those steadfast legacy authors are going to have to self-publish. Publishing will be relegated to managing backlists (at least until authors begin hiring lawyers) and their major bestsellers, who are eventually going to leave as paper sales become a niche market. 
 
No matter whose side you're on in this current dispute, the future is already written. Hachette and the Big 5 won't be able to sustain their business model; protecting their paper oligopoly. And the mistakes they're making right now are only bringing this future to bear even faster.
 

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply
post #59 of 84

Petition with over 8,150 signatures, and counting, lambasting Hachette and the publishing industry.

https://www.change.org/petitions/hachette-stop-fighting-low-prices-and-fair-wages

 

Compare that to less than 910 signatures on a paid ad in the New York Times.

 

"At this moment, one of the largest publishers in the world, Hachette, is battling Amazon for control over book prices. In this war, Hachette is using its authors as emotional ammunition. Hachette wants to control the price of its titles and keep those prices high, while Amazon wants to keep those prices reasonable. You may not realize this, but when Amazon discounts books, authors (and Hachette) still get paid the full amount. Discounted Amazon books do not hurt authors or publishers at all. In fact, discounted Amazon books help authors and publishers sell in higher volume while earning publishers and authors the same per-unit amount."

 

"Publishers have a long history of abusing their power. They function as an oligopoly rather than as competitors. They have a long track record of overcharging readers and underpaying authors, because they all agree to do so."

 

"Amazon has a long history of doing just the opposite. Amazon fights for readers by keeping prices low and concentrating on customer service and fast delivery. They make previously hard-to-find  books available to readers globally, and they offer a selection unsurpassed in the history of bookselling. They serve rural readers who never had a community bookstore in the first place."

"You may have heard that Amazon is putting bookstores out of business, and this is true. The good news is that the bookstores going out of business were the ones that didn’t feel like bookstores. The big discount stores couldn’t compete with Amazon’s prices and selection, and they are going bankrupt. What you don’t often hear is that small independent bookstores have seen three straight years of steady growth. This is something we celebrate."

"You may have heard that Amazon is making books unavailable. This simply isn’t true. Amazon has turned off pre-order buttons for Hachette’s books, as negotiations have broken down to the point that Amazon may not be able to fulfill those orders once the books in question are released."

"Amazon pays writers nearly six times what publishers pay us. Amazon allows us to retain ownership of our works. Amazon provides us the freedom to express ourselves in more creative ways, adding to the diversity of literature. Unlike the New York “Big Five,” Amazon allows every writer access to their platform. Hachette believes you’ll read whatever Hachette tells you to, and rejects and dismisses many worthy writers. Amazon has built a business based on the belief that you, the reader, can make your own choices about what you want to read."

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply
post #60 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

Petition with over 8,150 signatures, and counting, lambasting Hachette and the publishing industry.
https://www.change.org/petitions/hachette-stop-fighting-low-prices-and-fair-wages

Compare that to less than 910 signatures on a paid ad in the New York Times.

"At this moment, one of the largest publishers in the world, Hachette, is battling Amazon for control over book prices. In this war, Hachette is using its authors as emotional ammunition. Hachette wants to control the price of its titles and keep those prices high, while Amazon wants to keep those prices reasonable. You may not realize this, but when Amazon discounts books, authors (and Hachette) still get paid the full amount. Discounted Amazon books do not hurt authors or publishers at all. In fact, discounted Amazon books help authors and publishers sell in higher volume while earning publishers and authors the same per-unit amount."

"Publishers have a long history of abusing their power. They function as an oligopoly rather than as competitors. They have a long track record of overcharging readers and underpaying authors, because they all agree to do so."

 



"Amazon has a long history of doing just the opposite. Amazon fights for readers by keeping prices low and concentrating on customer service and fast delivery. They make previously hard-to-find  books available to readers globally, and they offer a selection unsurpassed in the history of bookselling. They serve rural readers who never had a community bookstore in the first place."



"You may have heard that Amazon is putting bookstores out of business, and this is true. The good news is that the bookstores going out of business were the ones that didn’t feel like bookstores. The big discount stores couldn’t compete with Amazon’s prices and selection, and they are going bankrupt. What you don’t often hear is that small independent bookstores have seen three straight years of steady growth. This is something we celebrate."



"You may have heard that Amazon is making books unavailable. This simply isn’t true. Amazon has turned off pre-order buttons for Hachette’s books, as negotiations have broken down to the point that Amazon may not be able to fulfill those orders once the books in question are released."



"Amazon pays writers nearly six times
 what publishers pay us. Amazon allows us to retain ownership of our works. Amazon provides us the freedom to express ourselves in more creative ways, adding to the diversity of literature. Unlike the New York “Big Five,” Amazon allows every writer access to their platform. Hachette believes you’ll read whatever Hachette tells you to, and rejects and dismisses many worthy writers. Amazon has built a business based on the belief that you, the reader, can make your own choices about what you want to read."



Does Amazon pay authors in advance, giving them the financial freedom to focus on their writing?
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

I generally use the Kindle app for book reading on my iPad and iPhone. I'm all about Apple, but was already using Kindle when iBooks came out. I've thought about switching over over the years, but didn't want to orphan the dozens (hundreds now?) books I already bought...

Guess I'll have to think about it again.

It doesn't need to be a all in or all out proposition. if you have a iPhone or iPad You can use the kindle app for past purchases, just don't buy anything new from amazon. For those who don't have an iPad (and are using a kindle eBook reader), get one (iPad) and make all your future book purchases from someone other than Amazon.

 

Consider what would happen if Barnes and Noble had to shutter their retail stores?

Remember Borders books? The 20,0000 employee retail bookstore (not quite as efficiently run as B&N) was amazon's first casualty. If B&N goes down Amazon will be able to squeeze publishers into exclusive agreements. That leaves them free to charge what they want to consumers and pay whatever they want to publishers.

post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

Paid Amazon rant

Ebooks aren't sold in a vacuum. Cheap ebooks affect the sale of hard covers, which affects independent book stores, which affects the employees of those bookstores. Amazon isn't doing this for the benefit of the consumer. It's doing it to drive those physical book stores out of business.
post #63 of 84
While I'm. It a fan at all of amazon I am trying to put blond and music side by side. And I get the impression that while in the music industry the publishers are the bad guys they are seen more positive with books.
And consequently the "digital revolution" is good for music. And bad for books. Why is this so?
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
Reply
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
Reply
post #64 of 84
"Nearly 1000" would more accurately be "slightly more than 900". The count was at 908 a day or two ago.

Article fails to mention counter pro-Amazon anti-Hachette letter/petition, started independently back when Douglas Preston first started his anti-Amazon campaign, with over 8000 signatures, at http://www.change.org/petitions/hachette-stop-fighting-low-prices-and-fair-wages

For alternate perspectives, see aggregator http://www.thepassivevoice.com/ and http://authorearnings.com/
post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


Does Amazon pay authors in advance, giving them the financial freedom to focus on their writing?

 

Glad that you asked. Yes they do!

 

Vincent Zandri hails from the future. He is a novelist from the day after tomorrow, when Amazon has remade the worlds of writing, printing, selling and reading books so thoroughly that there is hardly anything left besides Amazon.

 

Mr. Zandri, an author of mystery and suspense tales, is published by Thomas & Mercer, one of Amazon Publishing’s many book imprints. He is edited by Amazon editors and promoted by Amazon publicists to Amazon customers, nearly all of whom read his books in electronic form on Amazon’s e-readers, Amazon’s tablets and, soon, Amazon’s phones.

 

A few years ago he was reduced to returning bottles and cans for grocery money. Now his Amazon earnings pay for lengthy stays in Italy and Paris, as well as expeditions to the real Amazon. “I go wherever I want, do whatever I want and live however I want,” he said recently at a bar in Mill Valley, Calif., a San Francisco suburb where he was relaxing after a jaunt to Nepal.

 

Mr. Zandri, who 15 years ago had a $235,000 contract with a big New York house that went sour, has an answer. “Everything Amazon has promised me, it has fulfilled — and more,” he said. “They ask: ‘Are you happy, Vince? We just want to see you writing books.’ That’s the major difference between corporate-driven Big Five publishers, where the writer is not the most important ingredient in the soup, and Amazon Publishing, which places its writers on a pedestal.

 

Three weeks ago, just before he went to Nepal, Vincent Zandri signed a contract with Amazon for a new novel, “Everything Burns.” His $30,000 advance was immediately deposited in his bank account. By this point, he said, he is earning about what a junior lawyer makes at a big firm. Call it a comfortable six figures annually.

 

“It’s traditional publishing, but better, with a higher royalty rate,” he said. “I’m published by Amazon France, Amazon Germany, Amazon India. Soon, Amazon Mars.” The company sent him a free Kindle, and now he gets most of his books from Amazon. Most of the movies he watches come from the site as well. “Amazon touches every bit of my life,” he said.

 

Mr. Zandri is so embedded in Amazon that he recently started wondering about it.

 

Two years ago, he wrote about publishers on his blog: “I know I’m supposed to cry for these people, but they had a chance to survive and in fact thrive in today’s digital book publishing world, but they haven’t. And now they are going the way of the eight-track. Bon voyage.”

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/technology/amazon-a-friendly-giant-as-long-as-its-fed.html?_r=0


Edited by Russell - 8/10/14 at 10:56pm

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply
post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Ebooks aren't sold in a vacuum. Cheap ebooks affect the sale of hard covers, which affects independent book stores, which affects the employees of those bookstores. Amazon isn't doing this for the benefit of the consumer. It's doing it to drive those physical book stores out of business.

 

Funny I don't hear you complaining about iTunes when they helped put record and video stores out of business. Apple is even in the ebook publishing business. Competing against the very group they colluded with. That is Antitrust.

 

Your ADD getting to you? This was in my previous post.

"The good news is that the bookstores going out of business were the ones that didn’t feel like bookstores."

"What you don’t often hear is that small independent bookstores have seen three straight years of steady growth. This is something we celebrate."

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply
post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane View Post

While I'm. It a fan at all of amazon I am trying to put blond and music side by side. And I get the impression that while in the music industry the publishers are the bad guys they are seen more positive with books.
And consequently the "digital revolution" is good for music. And bad for books. Why is this so?

 

Because they're myopic Apple Fanbois easily fooled by the Reality Distortion Field.

It's ok for Apple to put record and video stores out of business but not ok for Amazon to do the same thing to publishers.

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply
post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post
 

For those who don't have an iPad (and are using a kindle eBook reader), get one (iPad)...

 

Consider what would happen if Barnes and Noble had to shutter their retail stores?

Remember Borders books? The 20,0000 employee retail bookstore (not quite as efficiently run as B&N) was amazon's first casualty. If B&N goes down Amazon will be able to squeeze publishers into exclusive agreements. That leaves them free to charge what they want to consumers and pay whatever they want to publishers.

 

Get one then realize why LCD is good for reading in the dark and horrible to use outside.

 

"The good news is that the bookstores going out of business were the ones that didn’t feel like bookstores." <-That's Borders!

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply
post #69 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

Of course the content is the most valuable part. That's why the publishers want the control to set the the price.

[URL] http://brennaaubrey.net/2013/12/08/in-which-i-explain-why-i-turned-down-a-three-book-new-york-print-deal-to-self-publish/[/URL]

The publishers are not paragons of virtue, they are wedded to the old business model that protects there profit margin and keeps authors, the content creators, in their back pockets. The future is staring at them and they can see their relavence is going to diminish but they will fight tooth and nail to protect it.
Wether it's Amazon, Apple or another company that disrupts them it's going to happen.

You seem to think authors are solely responsible for content. Read any popular book. The authors generally thank a long list of people, many of them who work at the publisher. These people include a variety of editors, proof readers, etc. Very few popular books get released without publishers spending a good amount of time and expense polishing the material. Your essentially advocating for a system where those resources are not sunk into publishing. No thanks.

It is telling authors are generally backing publishers.
post #70 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
 

 

Get one then realize why LCD is good for reading in the dark and horrible to use outside.

 

"The good news is that the bookstores going out of business were the ones that didn’t feel like bookstores." <-That's Borders!

There are two kindles, the Kindle fire (the crappy copy of the iPad and the only one that actually sells) and the eink kindle, (the one that never sold well and was difficult to read except in well lit areas (and because of which now come with a light).

 

The kindle fire screen doesn't look as good as an iPad in sun or darkness so you must be talking about the eink versions. First as I stated they never sold worth a dam (consumers smarter than bezos thought?) and they were wicked fragile (soft plastic bodies that when flexed cracked the fragile internals of the eink screen, which once cracked (no matter how small) would typically fail catastrophically. (I know... my daughter had two fail within months we sold the third on ebay and bought her a mini)

 

Yeah, good luck with that argument. 

 

Second, what because Borders sold coffee & cakes they weren't a real bookstore?

 

I actually hope you are getting a paycheck from amazon.

post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
 

 

Because they're myopic Apple Fanbois easily fooled by the Reality Distortion Field.

It's ok for Apple to put record and video stores out of business but not ok for Amazon to do the same thing to publishers.

You aren't keeping up with the current Apple hater mantra:  Because -now- Steve Jobs wasn't a marketing huckster with a reality distortion field. Nooooo. He was a genius visionary who single handily conceived and designed every fantastically successful product Apple made (that they (apple) used to brutally blindside (and eventually break the back of) the beloved MS). More importantly, without him Apple is dooooooooooooomed!

 

Try to keep up little boy.

post #72 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post


You seem to think authors are solely responsible for content. Read any popular book. The authors generally thank a long list of people, many of them who work at the publisher. These people include a variety of editors, proof readers, etc. Very few popular books get released without publishers spending a good amount of time and expense polishing the material. Your essentially advocating for a system where those resources are not sunk into publishing. No thanks.

It is telling authors are generally backing publishers.

 

There was a time where writers were at the mercy of the traditional book publisher. The writers had to kiss people's butts if they wanted to make a living. The publishers would decide which books got published and which books did not. The consumers only read what the publishers wanted them to read.

 

Now with self publishing, whether it's on Amazon's or Apple's platform, the writers don't have to brown nose anymore to get their works published. They retain the rights to their work, have more control of the distribution, promoting & pricing, and keep a larger share of the profits.

They can hire people to proofread and 'polish' their work if they so desire.

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply
post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

Funny I don't hear you complaining about iTunes when they helped put record and video stores out of business. Apple is even in the ebook publishing business. Competing against the very group they colluded with. That is Antitrust.

Your ADD getting to you? This was in my previous post.
"The good news is that the bookstores going out of business were the ones that didn’t feel like bookstores."
"What you don’t often hear is that small independent bookstores have seen three straight years of steady growth. This is something we celebrate."

Wrong. Piracy was killing the music store and music biz in general.

My ADD helps me avoid bullshit although it has failed from time to time, hence reading your posts.
post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidwestAppleFan View Post
 

My point is I don't have Prime.  I use Netflix and other services that are less expensive and usually better so have zero need for Prime.  Why would I pay a $99 a year fee when faster shipping is the one and only benefit to me?  I can order almost anywhere else with free shipping and get what is essentially 2-4 day shipping for zero extra cost.  Good online stores now ship the same day you order and UPS or FedEx can deliver to most of the country in 2-4 days.   You can call it Prime, but everyone else just calls it good customers service.....and does not charge you extra for it.

 

 

Actually if you pay for prime, you get free shipping for next day or 2 days. My last year experience and I have bought lots of stuff of Amazon has been not only was their price better than any place I price compared, I got most everything in 2 days and a number of time I order early in the morning and had the item arrive the next days just over 24 hours. When I buy I do total cost to get it to my house and I got tired of website doing the low price bait click only to find out their shipping costs were 2x anyone else. I can tell you I have save in just shipping alone way more than the $99 I paid. I even shipped a number of heavy items which were well over 100 lbs.

 

I will give you that prime at some point will not be worth it, but I knew I would be buy lots of things this past year due to work I am doing on my house.

post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Wrong. Piracy was killing the music store and music biz in general.

My ADD helps me avoid bullshit although it has failed from time to time, hence reading your posts.

 

ADD again? You didn't answer who killed video stores. It wasn't piracy.

 

Where do you buy your music, movies and books from? You talk like you care about those businesses.

If you say iTunes then it's hypocrites like you that put those stores out of business.

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply
post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

ADD again? You didn't answer who killed video stores. It wasn't piracy.

Where do you buy your music, movies and books from? You talk like you care about those businesses.

If you say iTunes then it's hypocrites like you that put those stores out of business.

It's funny that those that will quickly proclaim "who wants physical media?" are now crying about the death of B&M book stores. Kinda hard to stop that snowball they helped start.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #77 of 84

What is free about shipping that costs $99 a year?  That is over $8 a month!  Other sites have true free shipping that you don't have to pay for and the stuff may take only a day or two longer to get there than Prime.  Any savings in the price of products at Amazon is eaten up by the cost of Prime.  That is why they push it so much.

post #78 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

ADD again? You didn't answer who killed video stores. It wasn't piracy.

Where do you buy your music, movies and books from? You talk like you care about those businesses.

If you say iTunes then it's hypocrites like you that put those stores out of business.

Well I don't buy much music and I prefer a physical copy of movies. I also don't stream netflix. I also prefer physical books. So basically you're wrong. But that's not a surprise.

What killed video stores? Netflix.
post #79 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Well I don't buy much music and I prefer a physical copy of movies. I also don't stream netflix. I also prefer physical books. So basically you're wrong. But that's not a surprise.

What killed video stores? Netflix.

I don't think so, different kind of animal (and yes I knew you were referring to the DVD's by mail)

 

Redbox, 99¢ DVD rentals certainly didn't help

Comcast, DishNetwork & the entire gang of "on demand" programming

but IMNTBHO the number one destroyer of video stores (besides themselves of course) was pirating via the bit torrent. 

 

However a video store is not the same thing as a book store, not even the same genus or species.

post #80 of 84

I worked at Blockbuster for many years.  Corporate greed killed Blockbuster.  Viacom looked at Blockbuster only in one way which was to milk the cash cow as long as they could.  It was not always that way.  When I started and we were an independent franchisee, we were 100% focused on customer service.  Free balloons to kids, plenty of help with knowledgeable staff to help you find videos in a well organized and clean store.  Happy check out people.  Then when Viacom took over, kids had to pay for balloon.  Staff cost too much money so we had to cut it.  Stores because cluttered and dirty.  Staff was no longer happy because you had two people doing five peoples' jobs.  And late fees were almost never waived because that was giving up money to the cow. 

 

So if you make the experience miserable and soak people with late fees, what do you think is going to happen?  In typical corporate fashion, the stupid run for cover.  They blamed changing technology for the lose of business.  But it was their own incompetence to stay focused on business fundamentals.  Blockbuster in the early days got it.  It was not about renting videos.  It was the experience.  Why do people go to Disney when there is a Six Flags near by?  Viacom killed the experience.  Then the business died. 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Authors to rebuke Amazon over Hachette dispute with full-page NYT ad