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Microsoft says Surface Pro 3 more powerful, flexible than MacBook Air in latest ads - Page 2

post #41 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post


Yup, MS is still smarting from that 2006 assault. I am not surprised and in truth, fair do's. Not sure it will do much good over all but the stats are probably telling them the ads are paying for themselves many times over. Apple set itself up for this and will have to grin a bear it.
post #42 of 292
Not a bad attempt from Microsoft. Keyboard and track pad are half decent, screen is nice but Win8 is neither fish nor fowl. Let's hope Win9 will remedy dual personality disorder present in Win 8. I'll wait till Surface Pro 4 or 5 comes around, then I might give it a try.
post #43 of 292
Satya Nadella has his work cut out for him. I wonder if he knows that?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #44 of 292
While they make a good point about Apple's refusal to include a touch screen on their laptops, all you really need to know about the Surface is that it runs a bloated slow buggy insecure operating system that dates back to the early 90's and looks like a toy.
post #45 of 292
Microsoft has been pushing hard to move its "tablet and a laptop" since the first Surface was unveiled in 2012, but sales have been slower than the company expected.

Uhhhhhh...

Microsoft has been pushing the convertible "laptop tablet" (unsuccessfully) as long as I can remember (back into the 90's?) Apple came out and showed then how to build a proper tablet and they are still too stupid (bullheaded) to get it.

OK MS: no matter how hard (nor hw many times) you attempt to cram your crappy "unified windows PC" nonsense down consumers throats they just aren't buying it. Wake up and smell the coffee before you spin your company down the bowl, (or not, your choice.)
post #46 of 292

As stated previously, a product is more than a summation of a spec sheet.  Take a look at phones for instance that tout things like display size and camera megapixels. I was at a carnival with my son and was watching a dad trying to take a picture of their child as they were on one of those car carousels. He had a HUGE phone... probably 6" screen size. Aside from the camera app looking almost identical to an iPhone with the same iconography, I watched (because it was the size of a small TV) as he struggled to take a picture. First, the image quality was terrible. Blurry and with glares and lens flares because of the lights and motion. Then when he did press the "facsimile of an iPhone camera button", the camera tried to focus on the subject and finally took the picture about 2-3 seconds after the button was pressed!  So here's this guy trying to get a picture of his daughter and keeps missing. Line up the shot, calculate until she was about 2-3 seconds out, press the button... missed. Repeat.

 

So I'm there with my iPhone 4s in my pocket. I think, "surely my phone isn't that bad".  So I pull it out.  The preview is excellent (no blur or glare) and I point it at my son and hit the "real" camera button. Bam. One shot. The camera focused in on my son and pulled it out of the rest of the moving background. All this on a 3.5", nearly 3-year old phone!  So what's more important to you? The big screen that can't capture magic moments of childhood, or the smaller screen that's still running strong after 3 years and does?

 

Here's the photo for proof (with a little bit of instagram filters, sorry!)

 

post #47 of 292

Apple should make a pocketable Mac (300 to 400 g). Not for heavy work, but the best Keynote and PowerPoint presentation tool, fully compatible with Mac. No, the iOS (iPad) is not compatible with the Mac.

post #48 of 292

And by "Killed the iPad", you actually mean, "got killed by the iPad", right? And now they're running away to the MacBook to see if you can beat that.

post #49 of 292
it is pretty simple - if you know how to draw or edit in photoshop, get a surface pro (or a convertible with Wacom or Ntrig built in) if you do not get the Air. It is just amazing that you can finally walk around with a full drawing platform
Edited by agramonte - 8/11/14 at 8:12am
post #50 of 292
First of all the Macbook Air doesn't need a touch screen because it's not a tablet. It is not trying to fake to be a tablet unlike the Surface which is trying to fake to be a laptop. The Macbook Air is a full computer that is as portable as any can be. The keyboard is included with the Macbook Air. It costs an extra $150 to get that keyboard for the Surface. With the Macbook Air can add external drives, DVD player, hook it up to your Big screen High definition display. Try that with your Surface, oh there are no ports for that, to bad.
And the Surface fails with Windows 8.1. From there the failures stack up.
Viruses, spyware, malware, DNS attacks, hacked. Keyboard that falls apart in a month.
post #51 of 292
Seems like Microsoft is doubling-down on its Windows Tablet PC strategy. Again. For the fifth time since 1993. Hoping this will be the year.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #52 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

With the Macbook Air can add external drives, DVD player, hook it up to your Big screen High definition display. Try that with your Surface, oh there are no ports for that, to bad.

To be fair the Surface 3 does have USB 3.0 and Mini Display Port so in regard to external devices and monitors it has pretty much the same capabilities as a MBA.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #53 of 292

So, I did a little research cost-wise between the current MacBook Air (MBA) and Surface Pro 3 (SP3). Here's what I found:

 

The base model SP3, costing $799, features an Intel Core i3 processor with 64GB of storage. Unfortunately, that doesn't even match the base model MBA.

 

The second tier SP3, costing $999, features an Intel Core i5 processor with 128GB of storage. The 13-inch MBA can be found for that same price, but with OS X, a full, real, metal keyboard and glass trackpad. And you can put it in your lap.

 

The third tier SP3, costing $1,299 (which begins reaching into MacBook Pro territory), features the i5 with 256GB of storage. The 13-inch MBA i5 with the same storage amount cost $100 less.

 

Now, could Microsoft care to explain why the Surface Pro 3 costs as much or more than a MacBook Air?

post #54 of 292
The MacBook 11" Air costs $899.00 - 9 hour battery life
The MacBook 13" Air costs $999.00 - 12 hour battery life


The Surface 3 12" costs $1299.00 with a keyboard 129.99 => 1429.00
Guess the battery life?

ONLY 8 HOURS

It seems Microsoft has turned into the old Apple only this time it has a garbage spec as well as much higher price

TOTAL FAIL

with that close to $1500 one could buy a mac book air 11 AND an iPad Mini
the iPad mini does fit in my pocket so I can pop down to Starbucks work on a document , have a coffee, go back home and what I just worked on is instantly there on my Mac as well. I do this all the time and it means I don't have to lug around my macbook even.
Edited by Paul94544 - 8/11/14 at 8:28am

Originally Posted by Rickers - 2014

Cook & Co will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost for so long.  Steve == Apple and Apple == Steve.  

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Originally Posted by Rickers - 2014

Cook & Co will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost for so long.  Steve == Apple and Apple == Steve.  

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post #55 of 292

They still haven't figured out how to run Cyanogemod on this?

post #56 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

 With the Macbook Air can add external drives, DVD player, hook it up to your Big screen High definition display. Try that with your Surface, oh there are no ports for that, to bad.

 

I am not a fan a Surface 3 and I would not buy it, but a Surface3 has USB3 ports and a mini display port so one can connect  an exta drive or a big screen to it.  So next time check the facts before you post.

post #57 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

it is pretty simple - if you know how to draw or edit in photoshop, get a surface pro (or a convertible with Wacom or Ntrig built in) if you do not get the Air. It is just amazing that you can finally walk around with a full drawing platform

I was walking around with a full drawing platform since Windows 95 with Pen Extensions and a Tablet PC with digitizer.
But if it helps your narrative to paint this as "new" and "finally", please ignore the failed history of Windows for Pen Computing and the Tablet PC.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #58 of 292

Wait… the keyboard isn't included?

post #59 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot View Post

First of all the Macbook Air doesn't need a touch screen because it's not a tablet. It is not trying to fake to be a tablet unlike the Surface which is trying to fake to be a laptop. The Macbook Air is a full computer that is as portable as any can be. The keyboard is included with the Macbook Air. It costs an extra $150 to get that keyboard for the Surface. With the Macbook Air can add external drives, DVD player, hook it up to your Big screen High definition display. Try that with your Surface, oh there are no ports for that, to bad.
And the Surface fails with Windows 8.1. From there the failures stack up.
Viruses, spyware, malware, DNS attacks, hacked. Keyboard that falls apart in a month.

While I have my qualms with the Surface (lacking keyboard, not lappable, Windows vulnerability, etc)... it DOES have a USB port and DisplayPort that, just like the Macbook Air, can connect to a TV, monitor, etc.

The Macbook Air keyboard and trackpad are top notch and are much better than touching the screen all the time and cleaning the smudges off of it.  It just fails as a tablet and a laptop in my opinion.  But it DOES have ports for expandability.

post #60 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Seems like Microsoft is doubling-down on its Windows Tablet PC strategy. Again. For the fifth time since 1993. Hoping this will be the year.

Exactly!

 

Who was it that said "the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"?

 

Oh yeah... it was Einstein.

post #61 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

$1.1 billion in loses and counting


Yep. And it's a rather lame argument really. A lot of what they are saying as advantages of the Surface are because its a tablet. If you put it up against the iPad, many of the arguments like the touchscreen and the pen drop away. Even the keyboard does since there are keyboards for the iPad if one chooses to use it. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #62 of 292

Yep, thanks to Microsoft.

post #63 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretzelburg View Post

You know: MBA can run Windows 8 too...

Yep, thanks to Microsoft.  That's a positive for MS and Windows.

post #64 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan5555 View Post

They have no choice but to compare the Surface to the MacBook Air. They can't compare it to a Dell or HP computer because then they would be upset at Microsoft.
They sometimes compare a dell/Hp to an IPad. One thing though they will never do is compare to a Samsung/ etc. that is android/chrome OS, that would be worthwhile yet still not happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

don't forget to add the keyboard weight.
makes it closer to 2 pounds or double of the iPhone Air.
Think you mean either IPad or MacBook Air as iPhone air does not exsist as well does not contribute to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post

Apple should make a pocketable Mac (300 to 400 g). Not for heavy work, but the best Keynote and PowerPoint presentation tool, fully compatible with Mac. No, the iOS (iPad) is not compatible with the Mac.
In your dreams, iPads best option for you, and it does work with Mac.
post #65 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


I was walking around with a full drawing platform since Windows 95 with Pen Extensions and a Tablet PC with digitizer.
But if it helps your narrative to paint this as "new" and "finally", please ignore the failed history of Windows for Pen Computing and the Tablet PC.

 

 so was I, hence "finally"... you are welcome to live in that past and ignore the present of "windows for pen computing" and "Tablet PC" - I rather not.

post #66 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by cropr View Post
 

 

I am not a fan a Surface 3 and I would not buy it, but a Surface3 has USB3 ports and a mini display port so one can connect  an exta drive or a big screen to it.  So next time check the facts before you post.

 In fact you can output to multiple monitors.  Not to forget the docking station too allowing more outputs.  You can't do that with an iPad so need to purchase a Macbook but there's so many things you can't do on the Macbook so need to buy an iPad.  It's a vicious circle of owning multiple devices, where with the Surface you have a tablet and PC in one.  It will do everything you need it to.  Office productivity, gaming, entertainment.  Don't see why all the hate on what is a good product.

post #67 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Satya Nadella has his work cut out for him. I wonder if he knows that?

 

As I've said in the past, Microsoft will end up doing this revolving door of CEO things because there's so much to fix and investors are impatient. Just look how long it took Apple to come back, even with Steve Jobs at the helm. It took a few blockbuster products (iPod/iPhone) to get Apple back on the map like they are today. So...I don't hear of any blockbuster products coming from Microsoft anytime soon. This would be a problem!

Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

120 GB SSD/500 GB HD/8 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB

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Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

120 GB SSD/500 GB HD/8 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB

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post #68 of 292

Imagine if Apple were run by Vinnie Barbarino* instead of Tim C,... he wouldn't take this guff-

 

"Up you nose with a rubber hose!"

"Get off my case, toilet face!"

 

There... that's telling them!

/s

 

*(for those too young to know, Bing it)

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster by your side, kid.
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post #69 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

it is pretty simple - if you know how to draw or edit in photoshop, get a surface pro (or a convertible with Wacom or Ntrig built in) if you do not get the Air. It is just amazing that you can finally walk around with a full drawing platform

Neahhh... not so much. I have a feeling you aren't actually an artist (more likely a techie/specie Win fan who has a pirated copy of photoshop that he sometime dabbles with (and understands <1/4 of) "photoshopping" photographs for his own (and friends) amusement on his homebuilt gamer PC.) Pretty close?

 

PShop needs much more space (even feels a bit cramped on those 21" display/digitizers.) The interface is just too big, cumbersome and complex for a tablet. For heavy editing you simply need the real screen space and OTOH for sketching, much better alternatives exist (particularly so on the real tablets)

post #70 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammysamsam View Post
 
You can't do that with an iPad so need to purchase a Macbook but there's so many things you can't do on the Macbook so need to buy an iPad. 

You don't need to buy an iPad. A MBA is a perfectly capable machine for almost all computing tasks. It has a very nice touch pad which gives you control similar to a touch screen. And it can do one thing that Surface cannot. It can run OS X. That alone is the best reason to buy a MBA rather than a Surface. I have not tried the new Surface, but as far as keyboards are concerned I prefer one that is backlit and has actual travel in the keystrokes rather than click-like haptic feedback. As others have mentioned the Surface is quite a bit more expensive than the MBA. Also with the Air you get an extra USB 3 port plus a card reader, but the OS is the big difference.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #71 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

 so was I, hence "finally"... you are welcome to live in that past and ignore the present of "windows for pen computing" and "Tablet PC" - I rather not.

You're kidding yourself if you think this is new and improved. Like I said, I was walking around with hybrid laptop/tablets running full Windows and a digitizer and running Photoshop and other tools back in the 90s. My "past" is your "new". You are welcome to ignore the past and pretend that Microsoft isn't just selling you the same tired ideas in shiny new packaging - I'd rather not.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #72 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

You don't need to buy an iPad. A MBA is a perfectly capable machine for almost all computing tasks. It has a very nice touch pad which gives you control similar to a touch screen. And it can do one thing that Surface cannot. It can run OS X. That alone is the best reason to buy a MBA rather than a Surface. I have not tried the new Surface, but as far as keyboards are concerned I prefer one that has actual travel in the keystrokes rather than click-like haptic feedback. As others have mentioned the Surface is quite a bit more expensive than the MBA. Also with the Air you get an extra USB 3 port plus a card reader, but the OS is the big difference.

Why do so many Apple users have both an iPad and a Macbook?  And not just a few - the majority of users have both.  

 

The surface cannot run OS X because Apple do not allow anything non-apple to run it - this is a not a positive.  Currently a MB can run Windows but this is because MS allow it.  OS X would be great on my Surface Pro but unfortunately I'm not allowed to.

 

The prices are very comparable.  MBA and SP3 with i5, 256GB and 8GB ram are 1,299 (add $129 for the SP3 keyboard).  Is that quite a bit more expensive?  Remembering that the SP3 has more than retina-quality display while the MBA has less than retina-quality.  Also has touch screen and pen.  Can also add a docking station to get more outputs.  If I'm not reading the numbers incorrectly these others users you mention are wrong.

post #73 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
 
Like I said, I was walking around with hybrid laptop/tablets running full Windows and a digitizer and running Photoshop and other tools back in the 90s. 

Drawing on the screen is sort of a niche feature. It is occasionally useful in the manner that it was demonstrated, but for the most part it is rarely needed. If you were doing real art with lots of pressure sensitive brushes, a Wacom would be a much better tool.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #74 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammysamsam View Post
 
Why do so many Apple users have both an iPad and a Macbook?  And not just a few - the majority of users have both.  

They just love their Apple kit. I have one of just about everything and I am constantly buying the latest and greatest. It is sort of like an addiction.

 

As far as Microsoft 'allowing' Macs to run Windows, it is not like they had anything to say about it. It is made to install on any x86. Sure they could prevent it from running on Mac if they wanted to, but why would they? They are a software company. They sell software. Apple is a hardware company. The OS is free for Mac users, and not for sale as a stand alone product.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #75 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

You don't need to buy an iPad. A MBA is a perfectly capable machine for almost all computing tasks. It has a very nice touch pad which gives you control similar to a touch screen. And it can do one thing that Surface cannot. It can run OS X. That alone is the best reason to buy a MBA rather than a Surface. I have not tried the new Surface, but as far as keyboards are concerned I prefer one that is backlit and has actual travel in the keystrokes rather than click-like haptic feedback. As others have mentioned the Surface is quite a bit more expensive than the MBA. Also with the Air you get an extra USB 3 port plus a card reader, but the OS is the big difference.

 

2nd gen keyboard covers are back lit.  Also the Type covers have actual travel and not just haptic feedback.  

post #76 of 292

Look for Satya Ballmer to do a complete "reset" (read: scrapping/moving to ape the next big thing from competitors, poorly) in about a year's time. Look for a complete "Windows Phone" reset along similar lines in around the same time. Just have to witness a few more quarters of these piles of fail tank some more, and then show's over.

 

Though MS has been known to hang on to loser products way past their sell-by date.

 

ZuneForever™.

post #77 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
 

 

2nd gen keyboard covers are back lit.  Also the Type covers have actual travel and not just haptic feedback.  

I missed that part of his post., thanks  It seems a lot of the arrogance comes from ignorance of what other products can do.  I suspect if fully educated on what Android or Windows products can do, many Apple users would change or breakdown from cognitive dissonance.

post #78 of 292
I think I've had a sample of every Microsoft experimental tablet-PC hybrid. Most of them were pretty horrible. I have nothing against the Surface except that it is a costly compromise. Once they essentially require a keyboard and mouse well why not just give it a proper one? The 3rd gen Surface would probably be a great ultra book PC. I just can't see myself wanting to use it as a tablet, even in a pinch. The iPad Air is as large as any tablet should ever be and its aspect ratio is perfect for portrait mode.

There's more than enough market space for both Apple and Microsoft to be successful. Customers will decide whose vision for a personal computing device fits their needs. I don't know where the belief that one competitor has to completely annilate the others ever became the expectation, even if some competitors want you to believe it. The bottom line is that Microsoft owned more than 90% of the market at one point but they frittered it away with hubris and lack of vision. They have yet to right the ship. Windows 8 is still a train wreck and Surface isn't demonstrating anything other than their inability to separate from their past. How does Microsoft see themselves today? Are they a software powerhouse or a fledgling devices company? I don't think they really know and the Surface device exactly reflects that assertion.

Microsoft is lost and trying to find their way.
post #79 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post

Microsoft is lost and trying to find their way.

In the consumer world that what it seems like.  In the enterprise and cloud they are dominant and worthy of it.

post #80 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh View Post
 

Respectfully, I'm not sure I completely agree. Yes, it's not an iPad, but the weight is reasonable (it's 1.7 lbs vs 1 lbs). Also, it is as powerful as many entry to mid level laptops.

 

I think it's a fine device for those that must have full blown Windows on the go. That said, I think I'd still rather have an MBA or iPad MBP combo.

 

I'm an Apple fan, but this is the first device that I've taken notice of where I haven't said, "wow, this is dead in the water.

True. On paper, it's the first MS tablet that's not a non-starter. And then you start using it, and you understand that specs only tell part of the story. The screen resolution and dot pitch are great, except that they only work properly in Metro mode. When you run non-Metro apps (most of them, since nobody has really bothered developing for the new, unfinished UI platform) the pixels are too small and the user interface unusable.

The stand and keyboard are an improvement, but they're still way behind the ease of use of an actual laptop. The weight makes it a very cumbersome tablet, unpleasant to use for extended periods of time. I can see uses cases where it could be perfect for specific applications that require computing power, mobility, good battery life and Windows compatibility, but as a general purpose laptop and/or tablet replacement, it's awful. To be fair, it's a considerable improvement over Microsoft's previous attempts; but it's interesting to note that they abandoned the sub-12" market, and also pretty much killed RT without fanfare; first they blurred the marketing lines by removing the "RT" moniker from the product name last year, and this year they just did not update it. I think it shows the demise of RT has been orchestrated for a long time, and we've seen the last nail in its coffin.

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