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Microsoft says Surface Pro 3 more powerful, flexible than MacBook Air in latest ads - Page 3

post #81 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin View Post

 

The stand and keyboard are an improvement, but they're still way behind the ease of use of an actual laptop. The weight makes it a very cumbersome tablet, unpleasant to use for extended periods of time.

But it's only 146g more than the iPad (non-air) which didn't receive these sorts of complaints.  Am I to understand you found all the iPads before the Air to be cumbersome and unpleasant to use for extended periods of time?

post #82 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammysamsam View Post
 

But it's only 146g more than the iPad (non-air) which didn't receive these sorts of complaints.  Am I to understand you found all the iPads before the Air to be cumbersome and unpleasant to use for extended periods of time?

iPad 4: 1.44kg. Surface Pro 3:  1.76kg. Your math is off, the difference is 320g. And it's not just the weight, it's also the thickness and the sharp angles. Give it a try and you'll understand.

post #83 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post

Apple should make a pocketable Mac (300 to 400 g). Not for heavy work, but the best Keynote and PowerPoint presentation tool, fully compatible with Mac. No, the iOS (iPad) is not compatible with the Mac.
Um no. PowerPoint and Keynote are usable in both iPad and a Mac.


Microsoft is still flailing. There's a reason why Windows tablets haven't caught on in the last 15 years.
post #84 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

 

Watch the video from the main article page, not the comment page, and you will be able to view it in landscape.
I do that. Doesn't work.
Maybe iOS 8 ?

I don't have iOS 8. I use iOS 7. Works on my iPad and iPhone using both Safari and the Apple Insider app.
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post #85 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Drawing on the screen is sort of a niche feature. It is occasionally useful in the manner that it was demonstrated, but for the most part it is rarely needed. If you were doing real art with lots of pressure sensitive brushes, a Wacom would be a much better tool.

I would agree with this. Today I use a Wacom tablet with my MacBook Pro for art. While drawing directly on a Tablet PC was neat, using pen input for anything else in Windows felt like a UX compromise. I mean, the notion of "right-click" was still present, because it was deeply embedded into Windows and desktop applications like Photoshop, but if you had designed a pen computer from the ground up, you wouldn't impose the concept of "right-click". The Apple Newton, for all its faults, had the right idea: use gestures instead (or long-press).

Even though the Surface Pro is better and lighter than the older generation tablet PC hardware, I think you hit the nail on the head: pen input is a niche. And it's definitely not "new" to the Windows platform, despite what Microsoft trolls assert.

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post #86 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin View Post
 

iPad 4: 1.44kg. Surface Pro 3:  1.76kg. Your math is off, the difference is 320g. And it's not just the weight, it's also the thickness and the sharp angles. Give it a try and you'll understand.

I think we're getting our numbers from different sources?  The Apple store says "Weight (Wi‑Fi): 652 g" and on the MS store it says "Weight 0.79 kg".  The thickness of the SP3 is tolerable at 9.14 mm which is less then the iPad at 9.4mm.

post #87 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post

I think I've had a sample of every Microsoft experimental tablet-PC hybrid. Most of them were pretty horrible. I have nothing against the Surface except that it is a costly compromise. Once they essentially require a keyboard and mouse well why not just give it a proper one? The 3rd gen Surface would probably be a great ultra book PC. I just can't see myself wanting to use it as a tablet, even in a pinch. The iPad Air is as large as any tablet should ever be and its aspect ratio is perfect for portrait mode.

There's more than enough market space for both Apple and Microsoft to be successful. Customers will decide whose vision for a personal computing device fits their needs. I don't know where the belief that one competitor has to completely annilate the others ever became the expectation, even if some competitors want you to believe it. The bottom line is that Microsoft owned more than 90% of the market at one point but they frittered it away with hubris and lack of vision. They have yet to right the ship. Windows 8 is still a train wreck and Surface isn't demonstrating anything other than their inability to separate from their past. How does Microsoft see themselves today? Are they a software powerhouse or a fledgling devices company? I don't think they really know and the Surface device exactly reflects that assertion.

Microsoft is lost and trying to find their way.

I agree with the general thrust of your post, apart from your comment about iPad size.

The iPad Air probably is the ideal size for most people, but I feel that there is a large enough market to make it worth Apple's while to make a bigger one. Seeing as I see iPads completely replacing laptops eventually, there will be scope for significantly larger sizes. I, personally, would love a larger iPad for playing music on the piano. I could then also use it for composing music.
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post #88 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammysamsam View Post
 

The thickness of the SP3 is tolerable at 9.14 mm which is less then the iPad at 9.4mm.

 

Is that including the keyboard, perchance?  (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)

post #89 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by PScooter63 View Post
 

 

Is that including the keyboard, perchance?  (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PScooter63 View Post
 

 

Is that including the keyboard, perchance?  (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)

No this is without keyboard.  LordJohnWhorfin was talking about the SP3 being cumbersome and heavy as a tablet so I was sticking to those figures without.  The keyboard is an extra 4.8mm.

 

To answer your question I would not own a Surface without keyboard.  I would be losing 50%+ potential usability.  Which is a shame the keyboard isn't included.

post #90 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by PScooter63 View Post
 

 

Is that including the keyboard, perchance?  (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)

Yep that is always the ms surface hustle... They are always dynamically moving the goalposts.

 

Compare the screen size to the iPad air, take off the keyboard and pen and compare weight to the 13 macbook air and on and on..

 

It is painfully obvious (to anyone besides the MS fanboys) that the surface can't really compete in real functionality & usability with any of those. This has always been true, MS has been repackaging this all in one tripe (and it has been failing, again and again) for 2 decades, the only people who seem oblivious to this (then and now) are the aforementioned fanboys.

post #91 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post
 

Compare the screen size to the iPad air, take off the keyboard and pen and compare weight to the 13 macbook air and on and on..

 

It is painfully obvious (to anyone besides the MS fanboys) that the surface can't really compete in real functionality & usability with any of those. This has always been true, MS has been repackaging this all in one tripe (and it has been failing, again and again) for 2 decades, the only people who seem oblivious to this (then and now) are the aforementioned fanboys.

 

Yes the screen size is larger than the iPad air but why take the accessories off?  It's both thinner and lighter with the accessories.

 

Can you elaborate on why a device running a full desktop operating system cannot compete in 'real functionality' (sounds like something you made up) and usability?  Can I run full Office, Photoshop and all the other programs (outnumbering those on the Macbook), do some gaming (both casual and intense) and also watch movies?  Yes I can.  Sounds functional to me.

 

In fact you can do those things using it as a laptop but also pop off the keyboard and go as a tablet.  Where is it lacking in functionality and usability?  Using specifics and not insults like fanboy.

post #92 of 292
Problem with surface: when not in metro mode, the screen is too small. When in metro mode, tablet is too bulky.

Apple made sacrifices to create the best possible tablet on the market. They said goodbye to their entire software line up. And it paid off, developers filled the gap with all kinds of touch apps for the iPad. Now here we are years later, and still not many great touch apps for Surface. Apple gambled away the x86 architecture in order to make a tablet that looked like it belonged in the future - thin, sleek, awesome battery life, completely built around touch input. All they needed were the developers to get on board. Fast forward a few years, and the developers have. Now we have the perfect vision of the future of computers. Realised by Steve Jobs, and a fantastic group of people behind the scenes. Windows still has its head is in the past, because those were its glory days.
post #93 of 292
An interesting turn of events when MS has to try to convince people not to buy a Mac.

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post #94 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

An interesting turn of events when MS has to try to convince people not to buy a Mac.

Interesting too that they appear to have moved into a "Cra**led" campaign and dropped their "Scr**gled" disinformation efforts. I guess Nadella replaced the picture on Ballmer's old dartboard.
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/11/14 at 12:05pm
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post #95 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHarry de View Post

The Surface 3 is really excellent. One piece for the keyboard. One piece for the screen. One piece for the kickstand. One piece for the power charger. One piece for the Pen.

Wow this is the world we are all dreaming of. Simplicity and no complexity. But not with the Surface


The surface's  problem is Windows, that pos   MS OS which just won't go away !

post #96 of 292

It's too big to be a tablet

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammysamsam View Post
 

 

Yes the screen size is larger than the iPad air but why take the accessories off?  It's both thinner and lighter with the accessories.

 

Can you elaborate on why a device running a full desktop operating system cannot compete in 'real functionality' (sounds like something you made up) and usability?  Can I run full Office, Photoshop and all the other programs (outnumbering those on the Macbook), do some gaming (both casual and intense) and also watch movies?  Yes I can.  Sounds functional to me.

 

In fact you can do those things using it as a laptop but also pop off the keyboard and go as a tablet.  Where is it lacking in functionality and usability?  Using specifics and not insults like fanboy.

Ok ill bite (though I think you have the apple hater  blinders on so nothing anyone shows you will make any difference)

It's not a good laptop even compared to other windows laptops (compared to an 13" air it gets creamed both in performance and battery life) Add to that using a kickstand to prop up the screen of a laptop is laughable at best (usability wise) So it's not a very good laptop (even compared to windows laptops, and it's really not even in the same league as the air).

And, it's not a good tablet, compared to the iPad air it's battery life is limited (most are claiming under 7 hrs for real runtimes as apposed to the iPads which 10-12 hrs (even more playing video) The interface is bad because the only one that really works on a tablet (sorta) is the new windows 8/metro which has little or no software. attempt ion to run regular winnows on a tablet is difficult/clumbersome at best. 

It is a disjointed chimera attempting to be all things but actually good at nothing. You really don't see the MS has been attempting to foist a similar product (in one form or another) for 20 years?

(i.e. universal windows desktop on a tablet)

 

If you can't see that, I really can't help you. I don't think anyone can.

 

P.S.

Wait after rereading your post; you think the surface is thinner and lighter than an iPad air?

 

Never-mind the above facts and reasoning, you are obviously in an alternate reality.


Edited by IndyFX - 8/11/14 at 11:56am
post #97 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post
[...]

If you can't see that, I really can't help you. I don't think anyone can.

If only the sales figures agreed with him. But they tell a much different story...

post #98 of 292
Actually OS X has had handwriting recognition built in since day one. You can use the multitouch trackpad to do the same things as the Surface Pro.

The MacBook Air is also much much lighter than a Surface Pro from what I've seen.
post #99 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

It runs Windows 8. That is not a selling point.

Actually it is. I really really like Windows 8.1 and that's coming from a staunch Apple supporter.

 

Sure Windows 8 HAD some issues but the 8.1 Update 1 has fixed most of them. People are turned off by the lack of Start menu but frankly I abhorred the Start menu. Think about this. If you never pinned an app to the Start menu you had to go through this process to use it:

 

Start / All Programs / Microsoft Office / Word

 

With Windows 8 Start Screen you go like this:

 

Start / Word

 

Think of it like Launchpad and you've got Windows 8 down pat. It's a much much better platform than Windows 7.

post #100 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryn Lowe View Post

The MacBook Air is also much much lighter than a Surface Pro from what I've seen.

Yup nearly half the weight of a Pro3.

EDIT: Ooops... misread as an Air instead of Macbook Air. . The Pro3 actually weighs less than that Macbook I think.

EDIT2: the Macbook Air is heavier by about half a pound.
Surface Pro 3: 2.42 pounds (with keyboard)
MacBook Air: 2.96 pounds

Edited by Gatorguy - 8/11/14 at 12:44pm
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post #101 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammysamsam View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cropr View Post

 

I am not a fan a Surface 3 and I would not buy it, but a Surface3 has USB3 ports and a mini display port so one can connect  an exta drive or a big screen to it.  So next time check the facts before you post.
 In fact you can output to multiple monitors.  Not to forget the docking station too allowing more outputs.  You can't do that with an iPad so need to purchase a Macbook but there's so many things you can't do on the Macbook so need to buy an iPad.  It's a vicious circle of owning multiple devices, where with the Surface you have a tablet and PC in one.  It will do everything you need it to.  Office productivity, gaming, entertainment.  Don't see why all the hate on what is a good product.

Being able to do stuff on a portable device is nothing new. What apple has done is optimize the potibility experience bt lowering the weight and increasing the battery time. This is what sells MBAs and iPads, because most work on portabe devices is not that CPU/GPU intensive.

MS just doesn't GET IT.[/
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post #102 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post
 

It's too big to be a tablet

Ok ill bite (though I think you have the apple hater  blinders on so nothing anyone shows you will make any difference)

It's not a good laptop even compared to other windows laptops (compared to an 13" air it gets creamed both in performance and battery life) Add to that using a kickstand to prop up the screen of a laptop is laughable at best (usability wise) So it's not a very good laptop (even compared to windows laptops, and it's really not even in the same league as the air).

And, it's not a good tablet, compared to the iPad air it's battery life is limited (most are claiming under 7 hrs for real runtimes as apposed to the iPads which 10-12 hrs (even more playing video) The interface is bad because the only one that really works on a tablet (sorta) is the new windows 8/metro which has little or no software. attempt ion to run regular winnows on a tablet is difficult/clumbersome at best. 

It is a disjointed chimera attempting to be all things but actually good at nothing. You really don't see the MS has been attempting to foist a similar product (in one form or another) for 20 years?

(i.e. universal windows desktop on a tablet)

 

If you can't see that, I really can't help you. I don't think anyone can.

 

P.S.

Wait after rereading your post; you think the surface is thinner and lighter than an iPad air?

 

Never-mind the above facts and reasoning, you are obviously in an alternate reality.

No it's thinner and lighter than the MBA, sorry should have explained it better.

 

Some of the things you say are true but others would need some sources behind them.  For example the MBA creaming the Surface in performance is not supported by any performance comparisons or benchmark test run by multiple tech blogs.  Looking at Anandtech, PC Advisor, Engadget, Techradar there is no creaming evident.  The MBA is better in some areas but marginally.  If performance is a big issue then there is the i7 Surface.

 

The kickstand is what makes it more usable, not less.  It's a tablet form factor with a kickstand that allows it to sit freely in 'laptop mode'.  It can sit on the desk, in your lap or on the plane drop table.  It also allows full range of motion which is useful for my artistry work where I like to have whatever I'm drawing on at and angle and also allowing my palm to rest on it without interfering.  If you feel having a kickstand is unsightly and doesn't fit with the beautiful one-piece device then that's fine, but saying it has usability issues is laughable.

 

If you don't want to sit at your desk and use the kickstand long-term (who would), then use the docking station and turn it into a more traditional PC.

 

Compared with the majority of Windows laptops (el cheapos) it is excellent, both in hardware and build quality.  There are premium Windows laptops that are better but that takes nothing away from the Surface.  I would argue it's the best hybrid on the market.  The Lenovo Yoga is the closest.

 

Sure battery is not as good.  Can't argue with that.  They'll tweak a bit more out of it.

 

Spend time with it and the interface works.  The 3:2 aspect ratio and time they've spend on optimising scaling means there isn't an issue with classic desktop being too small.  You get more information on the screen and in beautiful retina display quality.

 

MS have been trying for a long time and are getting better products out each year.  The idea of a perfect all-in-one device is great in my mind, but we're not there yet.  As of now the Surface fits my need of one device, with portability, performance, laptop and tablet modes, a pen, touchscreen and the ability to wind down with a game of something.  Now I never have to carry 2 devices (excluding the phone (I confess it's a Lumia 1020)).

post #103 of 292
I remember seeing a YouTube video of a 100 year old woman who loves with her iPad because its bright screen and large fonts made it possible for her to read books and even write poetry. And it was the first computer she had ever owned, and she was using it like she had always known how to. There are also two-year olds who know how to use an iPad. The way Apple uses the touch screen isn't to be cool or to be a novelty. It's part of a larger effort to simplify human-computer interaction to its essence; to remove technology as a layer between the user and their content. Hence the lack of visible "chrome" in the iOS UI.

But the whole post-PC movement goes beyond the UI. Apple seems to have removed all the artifacts of traditional computing from getting between the user and content. The iPad for example, doesn't impose file management duties on users. I used to remember trying to explain to an adult computer novice what a C: and D: drive was, and why they had to think about it. Or what defragging was, or why their computer was "slow" or why they couldn't simply turn off the computer using the switch on their surge suppressor. And in retrospect, operating systems and the old PC paradigm of computing just coasted along, never getting substantially easier. The iPad was a chance to make a clean break with the old paradigm, and I think Apple took it to its logical conclusion, and as a result, the iPad is unusually accessible for non-technical types.

Windows fans usually thumb their noses at iPad because it isn't what they expect from a computer, and that's perfectly fine with me. I'm glad Apple didn't slap a touchscreen on a Mac and call it "new"; instead they rethought what a computer could be and created the first truly successful post-PC.

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post #104 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Yup nearly half the weight of a Pro3.

EDIT: Ooops... misread as an Air instead of Macbook Air. . The Pro3 actually weighs less than that Macbook I think.

EDIT2: the Macbook Air is heavier by about half a pound.
Surface Pro 3: 2.42 pounds (with keyboard)
MacBook Air: 2.96 pounds

People have too much incorrect information.  If we want to have proper discourse on all these great technology devices then let's get facts straight.  I've spent a lot of time here correcting people about weights and sizes.  Unbelievable as it is the Surface is very thin and very light.

post #105 of 292

Surface user does virus scans all the live-long day FTW

post #106 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammysamsam View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Yup nearly half the weight of a Pro3.


EDIT: Ooops... misread as an Air instead of Macbook Air. . The Pro3 actually weighs less than that Macbook I think.


EDIT2: the Macbook Air is heavier by about half a pound.
Surface Pro 3: 2.42 pounds (with keyboard)

MacBook Air: 2.96 pounds
People have too much incorrect information.  If we want to have proper discourse on all these great technology devices then let's get facts straight.  I've spent a lot of time here correcting people about weights and sizes.  Unbelievable as it is the Surface is very thin and very light.

And yet, the Surface at 2.42 pounds weighs almost 150% more than the iPad Air. Seeing as Microsoft have never shown it being used without the keyboard, they seem to expect you to buy it, which makes it so much heavier than the iPad.

It's worth drumming into you and the other Microsoft apologists on this thread: Microsoft don't get tablets and they never have. They show no signs of doing so, either, which means that the future of computing, starting with the iPad in 2010, belongs to Apple; Microsoft are on course to be a footnote in computing history.
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post #107 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammysamsam View Post
 

No it's thinner and lighter than the MBA, sorry should have explained it better.

 

Some of the things you say are true but others would need some sources behind them.  For example the MBA creaming the Surface in performance is not supported by any performance comparisons or benchmark test run by multiple tech blogs.  Looking at Anandtech, PC Advisor, Engadget, Techradar there is no creaming evident.  The MBA is better in some areas but marginally.  If performance is a big issue then there is the i7 Surface.

 

The kickstand is what makes it more usable, not less.  It's a tablet form factor with a kickstand that allows it to sit freely in 'laptop mode'.  It can sit on the desk, in your lap or on the plane drop table.  It also allows full range of motion which is useful for my artistry work where I like to have whatever I'm drawing on at and angle and also allowing my palm to rest on it without interfering.  If you feel having a kickstand is unsightly and doesn't fit with the beautiful one-piece device then that's fine, but saying it has usability issues is laughable.

 

If you don't want to sit at your desk and use the kickstand long-term (who would), then use the docking station and turn it into a more traditional PC.

 

Compared with the majority of Windows laptops (el cheapos) it is excellent, both in hardware and build quality.  There are premium Windows laptops that are better but that takes nothing away from the Surface.  I would argue it's the best hybrid on the market.  The Lenovo Yoga is the closest.

 

Sure battery is not as good.  Can't argue with that.  They'll tweak a bit more out of it.

 

Spend time with it and the interface works.  The 3:2 aspect ratio and time they've spend on optimising scaling means there isn't an issue with classic desktop being too small.  You get more information on the screen and in beautiful retina display quality.

 

MS have been trying for a long time and are getting better products out each year.  The idea of a perfect all-in-one device is great in my mind, but we're not there yet.  As of now the Surface fits my need of one device, with portability, performance, laptop and tablet modes, a pen, touchscreen and the ability to wind down with a game of something.  Now I never have to carry 2 devices (excluding the phone (I confess it's a Lumia 1020)).

Dude you sound like a beaten wife in denial, desperately trying to cover for her husbands aberrant behavior.

You take MS's tact of moving the goalpost around so much you have even confused yourself, You said:

"Yes the screen size is larger than the iPad air but why take the accessories off?  It's both thinner and lighter with the accessories."

There is no "should have explained it better" to it.

 

Go be happy with your surface, it will no doubt be a colossal flop just like all the other surfaces (and the long line od windows tablet flops) but why does that matter to you? I know someone that bought 4 or 5 of the hp tablets when they dumped them (got them at $99) and is perfectly happy playing with them. The difference between him and you is he isn't deluding himself.

post #108 of 292

The ads correctly depict the Surface's differentiating features... none of which seem to produce market share for MS.

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post #109 of 292
EDIT: Ooops... misread as an Air instead of Macbook Air. . The Pro3 actually weighs less than that Macbook I think.


EDIT2: the Macbook Air is heavier by about half a pound.
Surface Pro 3: 2.42 pounds (with keyboard)

MacBook Air: 2.96 pounds
 
Uh... you are sliding the goalposts around again:
 
The 11" MBA (which has a similar sized screen (11.8") and more runtime) is 2.38 LBS
 
The 13" MBA IS 2.96 lbs but creams the surface in runtime (12+hours vs 6 to 7), has a 12.8" screen and performs significantly better.
post #110 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


And yet, the Surface at 2.42 pounds weighs almost 150% more than the iPad Air. Seeing as Microsoft have never shown it being used without the keyboard, they seem to expect you to buy it, which makes it so much heavier than the iPad.

It's worth drumming into you and the other Microsoft apologists on this thread: Microsoft don't get tablets and they never have. They show no signs of doing so, either, which means that the future of computing, starting with the iPad in 2010, belongs to Apple; Microsoft are on course to be a footnote in computing history.

You're missing the point.  If you're using it as a tablet, like the iPad Air, you don't have the keyboard attached.  Just like if I'm not at my desk I don't use the docking station.

 

Plus the older iPads weigh 150% and more than the iPad Air but that was never an issue.  A lot of people are still on the iPad 4 but aren't suddenly finding it too heavy.


Edited by sammysamsam - 8/11/14 at 2:37pm
post #111 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post
 

Dude you sound like a beaten wife in denial, desperately trying to cover for her husbands aberrant behavior.

You take MS's tact of moving the goalpost around so much you have even confused yourself, You said:

"Yes the screen size is larger than the iPad air but why take the accessories off?  It's both thinner and lighter with the accessories."

There is no "should have explained it better" to it.

 

No you're taking the replies out of context.  Look at the original.

 

Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post
 

Compare the screen size to the iPad air, take off the keyboard and pen and compare weight to the 13 macbook air and on and on..

 

"Yes the screen size is larger than the iPad air but why take the accessories off?  It's both thinner and lighter with the accessories."

 

You don't need to take off the accessories to be lighter than the 13" MBA.  I could have written it better, maybe by using 'and' instead of 'but'.  I don't know why the conversation has turned to attacks on me and my grammar.  The weights of these devices are static so no goal posts are moved.

 

For example:

11 inch MBA: 1.08 kg

13 inch MBA: 1.35 kg

Surface: 0.79 kg

Surface with keyboard: ~1.08 kg

 

Everything is weighing about the same.  There is no need for a peeing competition.  The Surface is light and lighter some of the Apple devices and the marketing people at MS are targeting this in their ads.  That's their job.  Please continue ranting about goalposts.

 


Edited by sammysamsam - 8/11/14 at 2:38pm
post #112 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post
The 13" MBA IS 2.96 lbs but creams the surface in runtime (12+hours vs 6 to 7), has a 12.8" screen and performs significantly better.

Is it 10-12 hours or 12+ hours?  You keep quoting different numbers, plus repeating 'performs significantly better'.  I previously stated that the comparisons and benchmark tests show otherwise.

 

One factor in the battery life is that the Surface has retina quality display and the MBA doesn't.  In your words this means the Surface looks significantly better.

post #113 of 292
They make me laugh at how desperate they are for attention. Meanwhile the surface can't even begin to image to handle game processing such as Minecraft.
post #114 of 292
Hello, I'd like to sell my MacBook Air for a MS Surface Pro; said no one ever....
post #115 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Good Lord, these ads are odious. They remind me of Samsung ads taking snide asides at Apple.

A few observations:

The Surface is never shown in portrait mode. This, alone, tells me that Microsoft don't get tablets, as portrait is the most comfortable way to use a tablet.

The Surface is never held, but kept in a stand, detached. It lacks that personal element that we love in our iPads.

Whilst the Air's keyboard is seen being used, the Surface keyboard is never used, perhaps because it's crap.

Well... these adds are trying to sell S3 as laptop replacement, so it makes some sense to compare it to laptop, and present it in laptop mode. I think at some point we might see adds focusing on S3 as tablet, too... but not many of those; as a tablet, S3 is bigger, heavier and much more expensive than competition, and raw power/storage/... advantages are mostly irrelevant for typical tablet usage. In short, S3 does not have (m)any advantages over any ARM (or even Atom) based tablets. But as amalgamation of laptop and tablet? Personally, I see some values there. I usually travel with both laptop and tablet, and add to that eReader, smartphone, camera or two... a lot of gadgets. When I was younger, I'd consider all that "gear" kind of cool, but I'm in my '40 now and I am starting to prefer concept of comfort to concept of "there's a gadget for THAT". Almost only thing I need from laptop when travelling is Lightroom, but since typical tablets still cannot do Lightroom in reasonable fashion for my needs, there is no way around it... unless I merge laptop and tablet in something like Surface.

In that light, presence of pen makes a lot of sense. I don't know how well S3 pen is executed, but if it is done good enough, S3 could be good tool for photographers (including aspiring ones, like myself) in general. It is closest thing to having PC and Wacom tablet away from the desk than anything else available out there. As additional small travel benefits for me, 12" screen would make nicer comics books reader, and screen size with integrated stand would not hurt watching videos, too.

Re S3 keyboard. I had a chance to play with one for a while. It is quite solid, actually surprisingly so. Big, flat, no-gap-between keys take some time to get used to, but even with relatively short travel, keys movement is well defined and backlight is executed well. Even touchpad is surprisingly well done - for Windows side of fence - even if with touch screen present, the importance of touchpad is somewhat marginalised.

Re the touch screen on computer. I don't like idea of large, desktop screens with touch - they are too big and too far from my eyes and hands to be comfortable for any longer usage, but on smaller screen that usually sits much closer to me? It actually works well. When I got my ThinkPad Tablet 2, I thought that I will not use touch screen when tablet is in laptop mode (with keyboard and mouse), but I actually found that scrolling and, occasionally, tapping links/buttons on screen feels nicer for me than reaching for mouse.

In short, it is compromise device, but for my usage scenarios, benefits could be stronger than compromises. I might wait to see how's Broadwell Surface (4?) going to fare, but when I finally decide to replace my good old ThinkPad 410, Surface Pro will be short-listed, at least.
post #116 of 292
The truth of the matter is the Surface 3 is a good product, until any of you have actually used one for a duration of time longer then a day most of your comments are nothing but hot air. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using or owning a Surface 3. I use mine predominately for Abelton Live and FL Studio Groove and it's an absolute dream machine for those apps. I would love it if my MacBook Air had a touch screen but it doesn't so I had to look elsewhere for that capability, the Surface 3 fit those requirements. I didn't bother with purchasing the Surface keyboard as I already have a MS Wedge keyboard and mouse that works great, however most of the time I just use the onboard keyboard which is very accurate and one of the few virtual keyboards that I can type more then 30 words a minute on. It's light, great built quality, looks nice, fast, has an active digitizer and can run full desktop applications. Yes desktop apps work just fine with a touch interface as the Surface 3 display is very accurate. The MS commercial was ridiculous and I think they should suspend them, I didn't like the I am a Mac commercials for the same reason, I hate it when company's try's to show that their product is better then their competition by belittling them.

There is no such thing as the perfect computer so we all use what we think will get us closest to that goal, and specifically get the job done. The Surface 3 fill's a need in my digital life and does it wonderfully, so no amount of silly elitist comments will change my views on a product that I know is good because I actually own one.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #117 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammysamsam View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


And yet, the Surface at 2.42 pounds weighs almost 150% more than the iPad Air. Seeing as Microsoft have never shown it being used without the keyboard, they seem to expect you to buy it, which makes it so much heavier than the iPad.

It's worth drumming into you and the other Microsoft apologists on this thread: Microsoft don't get tablets and they never have. They show no signs of doing so, either, which means that the future of computing, starting with the iPad in 2010, belongs to Apple; Microsoft are on course to be a footnote in computing history.

You're missing the point.  If you're using it as a tablet, like the iPad Air, you don't have the keyboard attached.  Just like if I'm not at my desk I don't use the docking station.

 

Plus the older iPads weigh 150% and more than the iPad Air but that was never an issue.  A lot of people are still on the iPad 4 but aren't suddenly finding it too heavy.

 

Microsoft have never demonstrated the Surface used as a tablet; they always have the add-on keyboard attached to make it look like a pseudo-laptop. And for good reason: it isn't designed to be used in portrait mode as it is too long and thin; just another way in which Microsoft doesn't understand tablets.

 

The original iPad weighed 1.5 pounds, 50% more than the iPad Air, not 150% as you incorrectly state. That's still almost a pound lighter than the Surface-that's four year old technology. The iPad 4 weighed 1.44 pounds, which is 0.98 pounds lighter than the Surface. Anyone who went from a 1.5 pound tablet (the 2010 iPad) to a 2.5 pound tablet (the 2014 Surface) would be bound to find the Surface much too heavy. When you add to that the extra bulkiness, sharp edges and poor design, you have a surefire loser in Microsoft's abject offering.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #118 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeiP5 View Post

They make me laugh at how desperate they are for attention. Meanwhile the surface can't even begin to image to handle game processing such as Minecraft.

What do you mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hBVNZFHM_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t673C0iPlmU

...

It is not gaming machine, but it still is i5/i7 PC.
post #119 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

 

Microsoft have never demonstrated the Surface used as a tablet; they always have the add-on keyboard attached to make it look like a pseudo-laptop. And for good reason: it isn't designed to be used in portrait mode as it is too long and thin; just another way in which Microsoft doesn't understand tablets.

 

The original iPad weighed 1.5 pounds, 50% more than the iPad Air, not 150% as you incorrectly state. That's still almost a pound lighter than the Surface-that's four year old technology. The iPad 4 weighed 1.44 pounds, which is 0.98 pounds lighter than the Surface. Anyone who went from a 1.5 pound tablet (the 2010 iPad) to a 2.5 pound tablet (the 2014 Surface) would be bound to find the Surface much too heavy. When you add to that the extra bulkiness, sharp edges and poor design, you have a surefire loser in Microsoft's abject offering.

 

You state that MS demonstrates Surface as a pseudo-laptop, but then make a weight comparison of the Surface w/ keyboard cover to the iPad.  A better weight comparison would probably be of iPad to Surface w/o the keyboard cover and Macbook Air to Surface w/ keyboard cover. 

 

Also, the aspect ratio of the Surface Pro 3 is now 3:2, which makes it more portrait friendly.

post #120 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyFX View Post

Uh... you are sliding the goalposts around again:

Nope. You meed to go back and read the post I was replying to.
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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