or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple reveals most employees are white men, says diversity needs to be improved
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple reveals most employees are white men, says diversity needs to be improved - Page 3

post #81 of 798
Wait, so at Apple in the US, 55 percent of its workers are white, followed by 15 percent Asian, 11 percent Hispanic, and 7 percent black. That totals only 88% of the workforce. What are the remaining 12%??

And ONLY 55% of the workers are white? You're darned right Tim should be upset. The diversity of the population in the US is that 72% of the population is white. He better start hiring more white workers to fill those positions....
post #82 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

FYI: It's "skew".
Oops -- fixed. Thanks.
post #83 of 798
It amazes me that the media keeps saying that tech companies are "mostly white" and they need to hire more minorities. The numbers for Google, eBay, Yahoo, and Apple go from 50-61% white. And this is in a country with a workforce that's 74% white. So why does the media keep saying whites are overrepresented in tech? This media bias is offensive.

And why hasn't the media coverage pointed out that the diversity figures are based on the choices that these minorities are making? Look at the % of minorities and women who are being trained in STEM. If women or blacks aren't getting degrees in programming or engineering, they won't get hired by tech companies.
post #84 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Jojade View Post

Wait, so at Apple in the US, 55 percent of its workers are white, followed by 15 percent Asian, 11 percent Hispanic, and 7 percent black. That totals only 88% of the workforce. What are the remaining 12%??

And ONLY 55% of the workers are white? You're darned right Tim should be upset. The diversity of the population in the US is that 72% of the population is white. He better start hiring more white workers to fill those positions....

 

13% of the US population is black.

only 7% of Apple's workforce is black.

 

Thats almost a 90% disparity.

post #85 of 798
If the premise is that the demographic makeup of Apple or any other company should reflect society at large, then the NBA must be considered one of the most racist organizations in the country.
post #86 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elroy6 View Post

If the premise is that the demographic makeup of Apple or any other company should reflect society at large, then the NBA must be considered one of the most racist organizations in the country.

 

Exactly.

 

95% of the NBA owners and White.

 

that is what you meant right?

post #87 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

But the numbers include ALL APPLE employees -

 

Accountants

Marketing

Retail Staff

HR

Legal

 

So seriously telling me there are 800% more qualified White men than Black men for ALL THOSE JOBS?????


Well, if you look at population numbers in California, roughly 80% of the population is white, and just under 8% is black.  So, assuming that the pool of employees were equally qualified, there are 1000% more white people than blacks available for those jobs.  The fact that whites are only 800% more means that blacks are represented in higher quantities than the population numbers.

post #88 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Jojade View Post
 


Well, if you look at population numbers in California, roughly 80% of the population is white, and just under 8% is black.  So, assuming that the pool of employees were equally qualified, there are 1000% more white people than blacks available for those jobs.  The fact that whites are only 800% more means that blacks are represented in higher quantities than the population numbers.

 

tons of the jobs are outside of Cali. 

Think retail stores and offices in Austin, TX ect.

post #89 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by maloderous View Post
 

Diversity for Diversity's sake is bad. Diversity as a result of "best available talent" is natural. Business decisions need to be made on logic, not emotion.

Absolutely agree. But if the reason why 70% are white male is because the hiring group were white males and didn't hire someone from another race and gender then that should be actively curtailed. Its kind of human nature to feel comfort for what's familiar but when you are in a position to  hire, you have to actively keep in mind and be honest with yourself on why you are recommending one candidate over another. Is it really qualification or personal comfort.

 

Maloderous, chances are you aren't saying that white males are better programmers than non-white males and females :)

post #90 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Jojade View Post

Wait, so at Apple in the US, 55 percent of its workers are white, followed by 15 percent Asian, 11 percent Hispanic, and 7 percent black. That totals only 88% of the workforce. What are the remaining 12%??

And ONLY 55% of the workers are white? You're darned right Tim should be upset. The diversity of the population in the US is that 72% of the population is white. He better start hiring more white workers to fill those positions....

I think that, if there's any 'over'representation, it's among Asians, who constitute just a little over 5% of the population (there's a similar issue in many university populations). Hispanics are about 17% of the country, and blacks 13%.

 

That said, Asians in the US also tend to be disproportionately more educated than the rest, making them a more natural fit for tech businesses. Even though Apple could -- and probably will -- be more proactive under Cook, you do have to go where the talent pool is.

post #91 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSchlob View Post

Post the applicant rejection numbers, broken down by race / sex. Then MAYBE we'll have something to discuss. Till then, this is all pointless BS.
That gives you the what not the why. You have no idea why these people were rejected.
post #92 of 798

It is true. Not only that, but at the retail stores the majority of those who get hired are 20 somethings who don't stay. They whine about how working is a problem with their free time and "creativity". The variety of individuals who are hired has definitley changed for the worse in the last few years. We no longer celebrate individuality.

post #93 of 798
I think this is more about awareness not trying to meet a certain quota.
 
What if you had two candidates that had almost the exact same qualifications?
But one was the same race as you and you felt more comfortable taking to him?
Would you not lean on hiring that person?  Does that make you racist?  Hell no.  That makes you human.  But sometimes effort is needed to provide a truly equal playing field.
 
I think this emphasis by Cook will cause hiring managers to 'take a second look' at candidate of the different race.
post #94 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

I think that, if there's any 'over'representation, it's among Asians, who constitute just a little over 5% of the population (there's a similar issue in many university populations). Hispanics are about 17% of the country, and blacks 13%.

 

That said, Asians in the US also tend to be disproportionately more educated than the rest, making them a more natural fit for tech businesses. Even though Apple could -- and probably will -- be more proactive under Cook, you do have to go where the talent pool is.

 

So you really think Asians are shown preferential treatment?

post #95 of 798

This works both ways of course... yes, there are "minorities" who are fully qualified who are overlooked by SOME because they are different. But we have to remember, caucasians make up about 73% of the USA population. At Apple HQ in Cupertino, many hires by statistical odds are going to be citizens of the country that the business is headquartered in. For whatever reason, men seem to be the gender that is predominantly attracted to jobs in tech, though I know quite a few women who also like to work in tech. But they are a small minority. So it is what it is. 

I agree with many other posters, the most qualified candidate should get the job, regardless of any "fixed characteristic" of a person's identity from birth that they can't change. I used to work for a local computer manufacturer that got a lot of it's revenue from government clients and contractors because it was technically owned by an Asian female (but run by her husband, also Asian). State legislation required that a certain percentage of purchases had to be from "minority-owned" businesses, and so we had people knocking on our door solely because they HAD to. I think it is a significant reason for that business surviving when many other viable (non-minority-owned) competitors tanked in the 15 years since that legislation passed. To me, that was grossly unfair. When MOST (i.e. nearly all) people come into any tech store, they aren't thinking about what the race or gender or sexual orientation of the owner is. They just want a product or competent service at a reasonable price.

Let's just call it how it is: the past happened. Discrimination of all kinds was pervasive in our country not just 30-40 years ago. But it's effectively done now. And we don't need to punish one group of people who had nothing to do with it so we can accommodate another.

May the best qualified PERSON always get the job.

post #96 of 798

I am 100% ok with white men making up the majority of Apple employees. 

 

I am not ok with hiring darker people for the sake of hiring darker people.

 

Just say no to liberal racism and liberal discrimination. Those sorts of ideas belong in the gutter along with the KKK.

post #97 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Political correctness represents the end of honesty and pandering to anyone using race-based metrics is codified racism.

This garbage burns me up. Tim is insulting his existing workforce by saying he's unhappy with the people he currently has working at Apple. Goddammit, Tim. You're sucking up to politicians and corporate meddlers.

How is Tim Insulting his workforce? He's unhappy with the pct, not the people.
post #98 of 798
If Apple hired employees site unseen, based on their resume/qualifications would the numbers turn out the same? It is illegal to ask someone's age or race or gender among other things during a typical hiring process. - Just a thought.
post #99 of 798

According to the census bureau about 63% of the U.S. population is white, 17% hispanic, 13% black, and 5% asian. Apple's employee makeup is spot on with white employees and way too high on the asian side (to the detriment of the black and hispanic numbers), but we all know that when companies talk a bout wanting greater "diversity" it means fewer white employees ...not other ethnicities.

post #100 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 
 you do have to go where the talent pool is.

People living in Silicon Valley are disproportionately over represented in the Apple employee numbers as are graduates from Stanford and Berkley. 

 

Instead of looking at the overall US population to compare racial diversity, perhaps we should examine the college graduates and also those with advanced degrees. That is the labor pool Apple prefers and the white percentage is probably well over that of the general public. This is what needs to change to balance the representation of other ethnicities.

 

The most successful college students are generally those who attend only one institution during their undergraduate years with no gaps in attendance and those who seek an advanced degree move directly into that program after receiving their undergraduate degree. They are mostly white, single, without children, dependent on financial support from their parents, attain their degree quickly and get hired into their field of study. That is where the racial disadvantages are, not in the actual corporations that are hiring these people. In California we also see a lot of foreign asians from wealthy families who can afford to study in the US.


Edited by mstone - 8/12/14 at 11:35am

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #101 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordon Eagan View Post
 

According to the census bureau about 63% of the U.S. population is white, 17% hispanic, 13% black, and 5% asian. Apple's employee makeup is spot on with white employees and way too high on the asian side (to the detriment of the black and hispanic numbers), but we all know that when companies talk a bout wanting greater "diversity" it means fewer white employees ...not other ethnicities.

 

Certain groups of people are smarter and better educated than others, that's just the way that it is. It should surprise no one that better educated and smarter people are more desirable employees.

post #102 of 798

More evidence that Apple will be releasing a 5.5" iPhone /s

 

Damn, I must be racist and sexist/genderist because whenever I go into an Apple store to buy something, I always look for the best looking white girl there. If there are none, I'll go and find a dude covered in tattoos.

 

As for the % race of people working for Apple, I'd imagine they accurately represent the actual mix of races in that area.

post #103 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

So seriously telling me there are 800% more qualified White men than Black men for ALL THOSE JOBS?????

 

US demographics:
63.7% White
16.4% Latino
12.2% African American
4.7% Asian American
3% Other/Multi-race

 

Apple demographics:
55% White
15% Asian
11% Hispanic
7% African American

 

Looking at this, Apple is over-represented in the Asian population and under-represented in Hispanic, African American and White.  Also technically there are 686% more White than black, not 800% b/c you have to not include the original amount when figuring how much more than something there is.  The gender off-balance is more of an open question, but it would appear that racially, Apple is at least close to US distribution.  I would be more concerned about diversity issues if Apple was 90% White or something like that.  White people are not on the same level as Windows market share here, so I don't see a problem there.

 

So discussion about how to have more women interested in working for Apple could have positive results and there has been a lot of griping about the largely "old white guys" on the board for awhile, so do whatever you want there.  Overall, this seems to be a lot of griping about not very much tho.


Edited by Hagen Kirk - 8/12/14 at 11:38am
Come visit ISCA, the world's biggest free telnet-based BBS at either of the following:
http://www.iscabbs.com or telnet://bbs.isca.uiowa.edu
Reply
Come visit ISCA, the world's biggest free telnet-based BBS at either of the following:
http://www.iscabbs.com or telnet://bbs.isca.uiowa.edu
Reply
post #104 of 798

If there is a post about anything tech related, sog35 litters up the entire thread with "Proof the iPhone 5.5" is coming" rhetoric.  If it's a beats or diversity post- sog35 litters up the thread with "We are all racist" posts.  Can we put a can on this guy's mouth please?  My ignore feature is useless when half the posts are him- and the other half are responding to his lunacy.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #105 of 798
I would like to see a breakdown of who applies. And for what jobs. If the bulk of the folks applying for say "Genius" are white and male then it's not a shock that the bulk of the folks hired are also. But if say 50% of the applicants are female and only 5% of the folks hired are female (assuming that more than 5% have the required education etc) then something does seem rather off.

And part of why I want to know that detail is the notion that hiring to be diverse is just ticking boxes not doing what is right for the company by hiring the right folks

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #106 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

Certain groups of people are smarter and better educated than others, that's just the way that it is. It should surprise no one that better educated and smarter people are more desirable employees.


That's exactly my point...."diversity" is great, but does it mean hiring people who are less qualified just to fill some sort of quota? Or using population data to manipulate your workforce to look exactly like the general population, whether they are qualified or not? I would hope that Apple would want the BEST employees they can get....no matter what color their skin or where their ancestors hailed from. But too often companies are forced into some liberal guilt trip that means that color or ethnicity is MORE IMPORTANT than qualifications. I'd hate to see that happen here.

post #107 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagen Kirk View Post
 

 

US demographics:
63.7% White
16.4% Latino
12.2% African American
4.7% Asian American
3% Other/Multi-race

 

Apple demographics:
55% White
15% Asian
11% Hispanic
7% African American

 

Looking at this, Apple is over-represented in the Asian population and under-represented in Hispanic, African American and White. 

Great breakdown.  Just proof that Apple hires based on strengths and not race.  Is this shocking news to anyone that Asians are motivated and enjoy the tech field and gravitate towards it?

I'm fine with Asians taking the jobs away from White, Hispanic, and African Americans if they are more skilled and a better hire.

 

Tim Cook's comments and this whole thread is truly ridiculous.  This is 2014, not 1964- am I correct?

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #108 of 798

I think it's like this. If I found out after interviewing two candidates for a position one male and one female that they just married(not to each other). I would automatically assume that the woman would likely be starting a family and I would have to deal with her being out for 3 to 6 months and probably eventually want to work part time or leave altogether. Yes its not fair, but it's probably a risk employers may not want to take. 

post #109 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

.......that "race" is pseudo-science term that really needs to go away.

Maybe not. Interesting read.

http://time.com/91081/what-science-says-about-race-and-genetics/
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #110 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordon Eagan View Post
 

I'd hate to see that happen here.

 

So would I obviously.

 

Can you imagine Apple if it were made up of 100% unqualified minority employees?

 

iOS would be worse than Android. Apple's stock would be at least 90% lower than it is now. Blackberry would be more successful than Apple. It would be a disaster.

post #111 of 798

In this thread: white men decide that Apple hiring mostly white men is fine, logical.

post #112 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by maloderous View Post
 

Diversity for Diversity's sake is bad. Diversity as a result of "best available talent" is natural. Business decisions need to be made on logic, not emotion.

 

Sometimes it takes a bit of ingenuity beyond the common knee-jerk reaction about best available talent.  There are means to increase diversity in the workforce, both a company's own workforce and the overall workforce for technology jobs.  Neither of the following require a company taking the step of hiring a less qualified person just for diversity's sake:

 

From the article:

 

Apple has responded to the criticism by publicly committing to increase diversity, including a tweak to the company's corporate charter that commits the board to "actively [seek] out highly qualified women and individuals from minority groups to include in the pool from which board nominees are chosen."

 

From Cook's letter:

 

Beyond the work we do creating innovative tools for our customers, improving education is one of the best ways in which Apple can have a meaningful impact on society. We recently pledged $100 million to President Obama's ConnectED initiative to bring cutting-edge technologies to economically disadvantaged schools. Eighty percent of the student population in the schools we will equip and support are from groups currently underrepresented in our industry.

I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
Never own anything that poops. - RadarTheKat
Reply
I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
Never own anything that poops. - RadarTheKat
Reply
post #113 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I am 100% ok with white men making up the majority of Apple employees. 

I am not ok with hiring darker people for the sake of hiring darker people.

Just say no to liberal racism and liberal discrimination. Those sorts of ideas belong in the gutter along with the KKK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Certain groups of people are smarter and better educated than others, that's just the way that it is. It should surprise no one that better educated and smarter people are more desirable employees.

Ugh, really? You should have sat this one out.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #114 of 798

The ignorance in this thread is beyond belief.  I'm a software engineer of Mexican heritage.  I have zero problem that most folks in my field are white guys.  Why?  Because given the talent pool, that happens to be the majority of people in it!!  Bunch of fucking whiners.  Hire the best talent for the position.  Skin color/Gender is irrelevant.  If not enough of the "quota" people are available, fix the problem with society, socio-economics, etc.  Last thing I want Tim Cook to do (and as an AAPL owner too) is to waste his time going around saying.. "We need more black, transgender engineers of Asian origin.".

The second and third place folks definitely go to the Asians and Indians.  But hey, no one is going to Mumbai and saying "Wait, all our workforce is from India!!!"

Stupid politics.  

post #115 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanimal View Post

 

Discrimination of all kinds was pervasive in our country not just 30-40 years ago. But it's effectively done now. And we don't need to punish one group of people who had nothing to do with it so we can accommodate another.

 

 

Really?

 

So you get to decide when discrimination is over?

No. No. No. No.

 

It is far from over.  Ask any Black/Asian/Latino person.  I bet over 50% will say they still face discrimination of one sort or the other till this day.

post #116 of 798
Apple needs to hire more cheese because they have plenty of crackers. lol.gif
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #117 of 798
"revealing that its U.S.-based employees are overwhelmingly male and white"????????
US population is 69% white.
how is 55% white employees overwhelmingly white?
If anything apple should hire more white people to be in line with the population mix..
As it is apple is discriminating against whites... Lol

Just goes to show you that AI did not bother to do a simple google search before they Chose to pubilsh this overwhelmingly erroneous headline......

Wonder why ? ........
post #118 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post
 

If there is a post about anything tech related, sog35 litters up the entire thread with "Proof the iPhone 5.5" is coming" rhetoric.  If it's a beats or diversity post- sog35 litters up the thread with "We are all racist" posts.  Can we put a can on this guy's mouth please?  My ignore feature is useless when half the posts are him- and the other half are responding to his lunacy.

 

chill out bro.

 

I only called one person racist on this thread (and well deserved)

post #119 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post
 

The ignorance in this thread is beyond belief.  I'm a software engineer of Mexican heritage.  I have zero problem that most folks in my field are white guys.  Why?  Because given the talent pool, that happens to be the majority of people in it!!  Bunch of fucking whiners.  Hire the best talent for the position.  Skin color/Gender is irrelevant.  If not enough of the "quota" people are available, fix the problem with society, socio-economics, etc.  Last thing I want Tim Cook to do (and as an AAPL owner too) is to waste his time going around saying.. "We need more black, transgender engineers of Asian origin.".

The second and third place folks definitely go to the Asians and Indians.  But hey, no one is going to Mumbai and saying "Wait, all our workforce is from India!!!"

Stupid politics.  

 

Mr Cook never said he had a quota.  You are putting words into his mouth.

 

And I'm happy for you that you were hired without someone discriminating against you.

But I'm sorry your personal experience does not equal the experience of millions of Black/Asian/Latino people in the USA.

post #120 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Racist is alive and well.....

 

You go and start a computer company made up 100% of unqualified minorities and see how well it turns out for you.

 

Your company would make Android look good in comparison.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple reveals most employees are white men, says diversity needs to be improved