or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Apple remembers Robin Williams with iTunes tribute page
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple remembers Robin Williams with iTunes tribute page - Page 2

post #41 of 101
This "tribute" page dismayed me. I remember Microsoft using Amy Winehouse's death as an excuse to push her albums ... and catching absolute grief for it. (http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-apologizes-amy-winehouses-death-2011-7)

Now Apple has done essentially the same thing. I thought Tim Cook's Apple had more sensitivity than this.
Edited by Mangy Dog - 8/12/14 at 6:50pm
post #42 of 101
One of my favorite quotes of all time:

"Reality. What a concept."
-- Robin Williams
post #43 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mochi Fung View Post

Where the heck is Good Will Hunting in the dedication page???

The very first movie in the list, under Essential choices.

post #44 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

A terrible shame that the depression and character flaws that make a person become an actor, entertainer and comedian are also the traits that push a person to destruction. He was a one-of-a-kind.

I was sad to hear of his death.

There are no character flaws required for suicide; just the world.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #45 of 101
Two soldiers can serve the same tour of duty, in the same unit, walk into the same firefights side by side, suffer the same wounds, and one could come off tour mentally and emotionally unscathed while the other suffers full blown PTSD. There is no hard and fast rule as to who gets PTSD and who doesn't. Just as there is no hard and fast rule as to who can cope with depression just enough to fend of suicidal urges and who can't.

People who think Robin Williams was stupid, pathetic, selfish or cowardly for killing himself: you really think he wasn't aware that suicide inflicts horrific emotional carnage on loved ones left behind? This man who talked to the public candidly and knowledgeably about battling his demons? Who checked himself into rehab voluntarily as recent as a few weeks ago?

Instead of condemning the man, I come away thinking he must have been experiencing excruciating psychic pain if he still killed himself despite knowing how much he will hurt the people he loves.

A little compassion folks. And be thankful that no matter how little of it you have today, it will in no way affect the quality of care that you will get from the mental health profession should you someday find yourself needing their expertise and compassion.

And if you still feel like bashing Robin Williams, read this and hang your head in shame you little, little man.

http://m.tickld.com/x/robin-williams-may-have-had-his-problems-but-this-is-amazing
Edited by tundraboy - 8/12/14 at 9:40pm
post #46 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

That's probably because most celebrities are crap. Now with all these stupid reality TV shows, there are people who are famous for doing and achieving absolutely nothing. Is anybody really going to give a crap when somebody like that dies?

 

Probably friends & family.

post #47 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sestewart View Post

Nice to see the trolls are out already. You must be so happy sitting behind your computer, telling people they lead sad little insignificant pathetic lives. Hope that works out well for you. Obviously you can't comprehend the respect of allowing time of passing before creating a cash positive inflow to a celebrity's stock portfolio. But what should you care, capitalism and monetary gain lives on. 

Oh come on. It's a store, its purpose is to sell what people want. You think there aren't perhaps millions of people out there who have searched the iTunes catalog thinking of buying his movies? I did, and I'm glad Apple made it easier for me to find them. Now if they raised their prices, or started running ads, well that's different. But they didn't so your outrage isn't justified.
post #48 of 101

To me, it's sad that as a society we seek every medical answer for physical conditions, but when someone is experiencing mental problems they are thought of as weak. I've heard the same person say they would kill their self if they had terminal cancer, but mock someone with depression for having suicidal thoughts. Mental health is just as important, if not more so, than physical health, and yet we in the developed world look at it as if it's just something you can change your mind about and be better. If someone has cancer, an autoimmune disease, or another physical ailment would advice like "just don't be such a weakling" be even remotely considered decent? 

 

Thankfully, I have never been clinically depressed, but I don't pretend to think what Mr Williams was going through was going to be better at the snap of his fingers. I also don't look down my nose at someone's decision to end their life for whatever reason. I'm not in their shoes, or their mind, so I have no ideas of the demons that haunted him.

 

RIP Robin Williams, and thank you for all the entertainment. May you have found your peace.

post #49 of 101
post #50 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post

I'll let you terminate yourself in this situation if you sign an affidavit stating that nothing and no one is responsible for your predicament.

Fortunately, it's none of your business.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #51 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I was sad to hear of his death.

There are no character flaws required for suicide; just the world.

Suicide is still a personal decision, no matter one's mental or physical condition. It's different from murder in that way. People may not like or understand why he did what he did, but at least it was his choice.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #52 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sestewart View Post
 

It's a shame that it's not even 24 hours since the news was released, and Apple is already cashing in on William's death. I'm fully convinced the entertainment industry sees it's actors worth more after death than they are alive. 

I'm a fan of William's work, I own many of his movies on DVD already. I hope his legacy continues on for years of laughter with younger generations. 

Oh, please..it's not a cash-in.    It's a well known fact for better or worse that the death of an artist increases interest in their work and therefore, sales of their work.   It doesn't matter if one is a visual artist, actor or musician.    While it's true that we sometimes tend to take more of an interest when a long-term artist dies than when they're still around, it has nothing to do with capitalism or a money rip-off.  It's just human nature.   Such interest takes place in socialist societies as well.    It happened when Michael Jackson died, it's happening for Williams and it will also happen for Lauren Bacall, who also died yesterday.   It's also well known that when a visual artist dies, like a painter or sculptor, the value of their work increases radically if there was any demand for the work before the artist's death.  

 

I really think that especially in Apple's case, no one thought, "oh let's do a page for Robin Williams because we can make a lot of money!"   I think it's more about respect for his creative skills and how that fits in with Apple's supposed philosophy and imaging.   While Williams was not part of the Think Different campaign, he certainly could have been.  

post #53 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

As someone battling depression, it was a pathetic decision. And as him, not battling depression, it was a pathetic decision. Killing yourself is never the answer, in any circumstance, and you don’t have to have any experience with thoughts related thereto to be “allowed” to say so. Get over it.

Killing yourself is never the answer. And someone thinking clearly would realize that life really can have so much to offer
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich 
Taking that one line out of context, I just want to say that sometimes killing oneself is the answer, especially with regard to painful terminal illnesses.

I think it's perfectly ok to kill oneself regardless of circumstances but to invalidate the statement of 'killing yourself is never the answer', you just need to consider if you were on fire and there was a gun nearby. Would you burn to death painfully or use the gun? Replace the fire with any number of things - bad memories, bad circumstances, illnesses that are inescapable.

People often suggest mental 'illness' is the cause of people taking their own lives or that it would only be understandable in circumstances of prolonged physical illness but some people just don't find life all that big of a deal and that it's unfulfilling. A lot of people live very unrewarding lives. Look at some of the low-level workers in China who realise that they are working solely to survive and to keep on working.

The reason that I put 'illness' in quotes there is because what would be considered a mental illness is simply regarding an unrewarding life as not worth living. If you happened to not like toffee, you wouldn't consider that an illness so why is it an illness when someone doesn't enjoy life? One reason is it's obviously unhealthy to not enjoy life but it's not something that can be treated the same way as a physical illness because it doesn't have a readily identifiable cause and cure. If someone has a painful memory of a loved one dying and that's one cause, what's the cure? To bring them back from the dead or erase their memories, neither of which are possible. The only feasible cure is to convince that person their concern is not so important.

I consider it to be more selfish for people to tell other people they should appreciate life simply because they do and force them to end their lives in such undignified ways. Robin Williams hanged himself by his belt stuck in his cupboard door. Tony Scott jumped off a bridge in front of a load of onlookers, dying from blunt force injuries and drowning. There was a guy here who drugged himself unconscious and setup a chainsaw on a timer to cut his own head off:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/inquest-told-man-cuts-off-own-head-with-chainsaw/story-e6frev00-1111118092945

Regardless of what people think these people ought to have done, the fact is they wanted to die and followed it through. The idea that there is somehow a cure for unhappiness is naive. Say that a low-level Chinese worker is unhappy and they go to a counsellor, what exactly are they going to do? Give them a lot of money, a beautiful girlfriend and lots of friends? No, they give them drugs. The same kind of drugs that people get addicted to and are listed as a cause of their problems.

Drugs and alcohol are short-term solutions to the problem, they are used to escape reality. Reality is the fundamental problem, not the drugs or alcohol. Some people aren't impressed with reality and that can't be changed easily.

I've read comments about Robin Williams' death as being selfish because he meant so much to so many people. People are overlooking the definition of selfish there, which is when someone puts their own interests above the interests of someone else. Wanting someone to stay alive to entertain them I would suggest is more selfish than someone choosing not to keep living.

There are a few stories about money worries floating around, costly divorces and so on that coerced Robin Williams into taking on the following TV show:



Pretty dire looking material to work with and to make matters worse, they cancelled the show in May this year:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-cbs-cancels-robin-williams-comedy-the-crazy-ones-20140510-story.html

He could perhaps have picked up better work later on and turned things around but maybe not and maybe he didn't feel like doing that any more.

Obviously everyone is quick to sympathise after someone dies but let's say he had told people he was considering killing himself, what would the reaction have been? That he had no reason to be unhappy, much like comments made about Owen Wilson's suicide attempt (comments quoted are from other sites):

http://jezebel.com/5770385/why-arent-we-talking-about-owen-wilsons-suicide-attempt

"Aww boo hoo I'm rich and famous and I've screwed Kate Hudson, I can't go on!"
"This incident is probably the funniest thing Owen Wilson has ever done."

People don't sympathise with people who ask for help, they sympathise with people after it's too late to help them and they'll still be forgotten next week.

These kind of events are going to keep happening. Everyone says to be more vigilant of people's suffering to prevent it but there's no way to do that and nobody cares enough about someone merely being sad. I think there ought to be a non-profit organisation that allows anyone to order equipment to take their own lives in a dignified and comfortable way. Veterinarians use barbiturates:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4310596.stm

The organisation can have a network of support to help persuade the people otherwise but if the individual chooses, they should send them the equipment. It's ultimately still up to the individual whether they go through with it. I suspect that this would show up that there's a lot more suffering in the world than people would like to believe and if the support network is linked with a popular way to acquire the equipment then maybe there's more chance those people will get support first.
post #54 of 101
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
...you just need to consider if you were on fire and there was a gun nearby. Would you burn to death painfully or use the gun? 


I would stop, drop, and roll; don’t you remember elementary school?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #55 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post



The reason that I put 'illness' in quotes there is because what would be considered a mental illness is simply regarding an unrewarding life as not worth living. If you happened to not like toffee, you wouldn't consider that an illness so why is it an illness when someone doesn't enjoy life?

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. Are you saying mental illness is not an "real" illness and that those who suffer from it should get over it?
post #56 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
...you just need to consider if you were on fire and there was a gun nearby. Would you burn to death painfully or use the gun? 

I would stop, drop, and roll; don’t you remember elementary school?

You're trapped in a burning building though so rolling means rolling in more fire. You'd have to choose the gun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark 
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. Are you saying mental illness is not an "real" illness and that those who suffer from it should get over it?

No, I'm saying the opposite - that people can't assume it can be cured as easily as an illness.
post #57 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


No, I'm saying the opposite - that people can't assume it can be cured as easily as an illness.

Ok. Whew, good thing I got a clarification. My apologies.
post #58 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCJ001 View Post
 

 

Fortunately, for you, you have no idea what you are talking about. 

 

Well, if I did I would probably be in the same place as he is right now. Which doesn't change my opinion in the slightest - he had a loving wife and kids; NOTHING in this world justifies taking your own life like that, particularly when so many people love, care about and depend on you. 

 

After all, suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness and cowardice - you get away from this world without even caring about those left behind. 

 

So please spare me from your condescending crap about depression as if it were just a "chemical imbalance" - nobody tied the rope for him; he was perfectly aware of his actions and did it himself, to the despair of his loving family. So whatever.

iMac Intel 27" Core i7 3.4, 16GB RAM, 120GB SSD + 1TB HD + 4TB RAID 1+0, Nuforce Icon HDP, OS X 10.9.1; iPad Air 64GB; iPhone 5 32GB; iPod Classic; iPod Nano 4G; Apple TV 2.
Reply
iMac Intel 27" Core i7 3.4, 16GB RAM, 120GB SSD + 1TB HD + 4TB RAID 1+0, Nuforce Icon HDP, OS X 10.9.1; iPad Air 64GB; iPhone 5 32GB; iPod Classic; iPod Nano 4G; Apple TV 2.
Reply
post #59 of 101
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
You're trapped in a burning building though so rolling means rolling in more fire. You'd have to choose the gun.


Or leaving the building.


Anyway, it is not “perfectly okay” to kill yourself, regardless of the situation.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #60 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

Killing yourself is never the answer.

Taking that one line out of context, I just want to say that sometimes killing oneself is the answer, especially with regard to painful terminal illnesses. I don't want anyone denying me my rights to do with my life what I want and no one should be forced to do something against their will.

It may be the answer, but it's the wrong answer.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #61 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Two soldiers can serve the same tour of duty, in the same unit, walk into the same firefights side by side, suffer the same wounds, and one could come off tour mentally and emotionally unscathed while the other suffers full blown PTSD. There is no hard and fast rule as to who gets PTSD and who doesn't. Just as there is no hard and fast rule as to who can cope with depression just enough to fend of suicidal urges and who can't.

People who think Robin Williams was stupid, pathetic, selfish or cowardly for killing himself: you really think he wasn't aware that suicide inflicts horrific emotional carnage on loved ones left behind? This man who talked to the public candidly and knowledgeably about battling his demons? Who checked himself into rehab voluntarily as recent as a few weeks ago?

Instead of condemning the man, I come away thinking he must have been experiencing excruciating psychic pain if he still killed himself despite knowing how much he will hurt the people he loves.

A little compassion folks. And be thankful that no matter how little of it you have today, it will in no way affect the quality of care that you will get from the mental health profession should you someday find yourself needing their expertise and compassion.

And if you still feel like bashing Robin Williams, read this and hang your head in shame you little, little man.

http://m.tickld.com/x/robin-williams-may-have-had-his-problems-but-this-is-amazing

Thank you for your wise post.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #62 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I was sad to hear of his death.

There are no character flaws required for suicide; just the world.

Suicide is still a personal decision, no matter one's mental or physical condition. It's different from murder in that way. People may not like or understand why he did what he did, but at least it was his choice.

Suicide is a complex thing. If you were being tortured and were offered the chance to kill yourself, would you take it? Would it be right? Is it a fair choice?

Tough questions. No easy answers.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #63 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCJ001 View Post

 

Fortunately, for you, you have no idea what you are talking about. 

Well, if I did I would probably be in the same place as he is right now. Which doesn't change my opinion in the slightest - he had a loving wife and kids; NOTHING in this world justifies taking your own life like that, particularly when so many people love, care about and depend on you. 

After all, suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness and cowardice - you get away from this world without even caring about those left behind. 

So please spare me from your condescending crap about depression as if it were just a "chemical imbalance" - nobody tied the rope for him; he was perfectly aware of his actions and did it himself, to the despair of his loving family. So whatever.

So you're saying that Robin Williams didn't care about those he left behind. You're speaking on behalf of a dead man who can't exactly speak for himself.

You say it's the ultimate act of selfishness and cowardice. He could be going from hell to heaven or from hell to hell. Bit of a gamble.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #64 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
You're trapped in a burning building though so rolling means rolling in more fire. You'd have to choose the gun.

Or leaving the building.

trapped (træpt) adjective
unable to escape, as from a situation

I used that word in the analogy because a state of mind is similarly inescapable. Mind-altering chemicals give a temporary escape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Anyway, it is not “perfectly okay” to kill yourself, regardless of the situation.

Why is it any different from doing anything else? It's your life, I say it's your choice what you do with it. You're not a possession or accountable to anyone for your own existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer 
he had a loving wife and kids; NOTHING in this world justifies taking your own life like that, particularly when so many people love, care about and depend on you.

Financially, the family should be ok - he even set up trust funds for his kids. They're losing emotional support but if he had died of natural causes, that would have been the case anyway.

Everybody dies, taking your own life is just moving the date forward.

What I find interesting is people's reactions to suicide when it comes to how they perceive individuals. There was a celebrity children's entertainer who turned out to have abused women and children over a long period and jailed recently:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/387510/EXCLUSIVE-Suicide-risk-Rolf-Harris-Max-Clifford-jail

"Yep he should commit suicide"
"Well if he wants to commit harry carry then let him get on with it, it would save the tax payer a lot of money keeping in prison"

If he had killed himself before they found out about this abuse, he'd have been getting the same tributes as Robin Williams.

This actually happened with another TV presenter:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15507826

Tributes poured in when he died of natural causes but then as the years went on they uncovered a huge amount of abuse (abused hospital patients, dead people, children) and then the reactions change:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jan/18/jimmy-savile-abused-1000-victims-bbc

When it comes to good characters like Robin Williams, that's when people say taking your own life is never justified but when it comes to abusers, that gets completely thrown out so it can't be a definitive statement.

I don't think it's an action that has to be justified by anyone. It's a personal choice about someone's own existence and that existence will come to an end all by itself no matter what choices people make.
post #65 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

trapped (træpt) adjective
unable to escape, as from a situation

I used that word in the analogy because a state of mind is similarly inescapable. Mind-altering chemicals give a temporary escape.
Why is it any different from doing anything else? It's your life, I say it's your choice what you do with it. You're not a possession or accountable to anyone for your own existence.
Financially, the family should be ok - he even set up trust funds for his kids. They're losing emotional support but if he had died of natural causes, that would have been the case anyway.

Everybody dies, taking your own life is just moving the date forward.

What I find interesting is people's reactions to suicide when it comes to how they perceive individuals. There was a celebrity children's entertainer who turned out to have abused women and children over a long period and jailed recently:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/387510/EXCLUSIVE-Suicide-risk-Rolf-Harris-Max-Clifford-jail

"Yep he should commit suicide"
"Well if he wants to commit harry carry then let him get on with it, it would save the tax payer a lot of money keeping in prison"

If he had killed himself before they found out about this abuse, he'd have been getting the same tributes as Robin Williams.

This actually happened with another TV presenter:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15507826

Tributes poured in when he died of natural causes but then as the years went on they uncovered a huge amount of abuse (abused hospital patients, dead people, children) and then the reactions change:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jan/18/jimmy-savile-abused-1000-victims-bbc

When it comes to good characters like Robin Williams, that's when people say taking your own life is never justified but when it comes to abusers, that gets completely thrown out so it can't be a definitive statement.

I don't think it's an action that has to be justified by anyone. It's a personal choice about someone's own existence and that existence will come to an end all by itself no matter what choices people make.
Your philosophy is warped and dangerous. Teaching others that suicide is wholly appropriate is a sign you may be involved in some screwed up cult.

It is your life but you have a responsibility to humanity and loved ones. Robin Williams suffered a mental illness and may not have been fully aware of the consequences of taking his own life. More needs to be done to find improved methods of helping people with mental affliction. If there is anyone afflicted reading this, always remember that "if you've lost hope then have faith hope will eventually return. It may only involve finding the right medication that works best for you."
post #66 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post

Teaching others that suicide is wholly appropriate is a sign you may be involved in some screwed up cult.

I would say it's screwed up to consider that life will always eventually have a Disney ending and that pro life is always the best option. There's a kid here who had a condition where his skin fell off leaving him with sores over his body. Every day he had to live in bandages and pain. I consider forcing someone to live like that to be torture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z80nLOPJaZU

There was a girl here travelling as a passenger in a car, hit by a drunk driver and she ended up with severe burns, no hands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRAsCxxrBYg

A woman here wanted to enhance her figure and ended up getting an infection and having her hands and feet cut off:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/01/health/diy-plastic-surgery/

"I didn't think about losing my children. I didn't think about leaving my mother," she said. She thought instead of how death would feel. "Although I will be dead, I will not be in pain anymore."

There was a guy here killed himself because he was sentenced to 16 years in prison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_-MHK082I4

A criminal on the run here shot himself because he obviously realised that his life ahead was one behind bars and not worth it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5dQym8bKhg

In all of those cases, it is no one else's place to say that their lives are worth living for the sake of satisfying their own misguided world view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post

It is your life but you have a responsibility to humanity and loved ones.

What if someone already betrayed humanity and loved ones by being a criminal and prolonging life will keep betraying them? What if someone is so physically disabled and incapacitated that they can be nothing but a burden to humanity and loved ones. To satisfy your own statement and personal responsibility, it would promote taking their life because other people's lives would be better without the burden.

It seems Robin Williams was suffering from early stages of Parkinsons:

http://news.sky.com/story/1318797/robin-williams-had-parkinsons-disease

so perhaps that contributed to his decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post

Robin Williams suffered a mental illness and may not have been fully aware of the consequences of taking his own life.

You can't diagnose people without even talking to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post

More needs to be done to find improved methods of helping people with mental affliction.

It's a positive statement but an empty one. The outward symptoms are going to be trivial e.g sadness and that's it and as I've shown earlier, people don't care if you're sad, they only care if you die and by then it's too late. Take George Michael for example who has become reclusive and isolated:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/george-michael-shut-himself-world-3919444

Sure signs of depression. What are people doing about it? Nothing because there's nothing anyone can do about it. You can't turn up at his house with a bunch of people who want to be his friend. He became isolated after splitting with his partner. The solution to that problem is for them to get back together.

The same was true of Owen Wilson, he tried to kill himself over Kate Hudson. They then got back together but then split up again:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-565663/Owen-Wilson-wed-Kate-Hudson--year-tried-kill-dumped-him.html

The feel good statements like 'chin up, there's more fish in the sea' don't work. If someone wants to be with one particular person, what is your solution for them? Drugs aren't the solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post

If there is anyone afflicted reading this, always remember that "if you've lost hope then have faith hope will eventually return. It may only involve finding the right medication that works best for you."

Hope-restoring medication you say. Do they keep this in the back of the pharmacy? Medication doesn't give you hope, it just makes you forget you lost it. When you're off the medication again, the reason for the suffering doesn't go away. The plan is that it just becomes less important. This can happen but sometimes it won't.
post #67 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

...I think it's perfectly ok to kill oneself regardless of circumstances but to invalidate the statement of 'killing yourself is never the answer', you just need to consider if you were on fire and there was a gun nearby. Would you burn to death painfully or use the gun?...

 

Actually, in both the case of gunshots and fire, the pain receptors will typically shut off in cases of extreme pain. The affected areas just go numb.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #68 of 101
Sorry, but with your so-called ready army of links accompanied by defeatist reasoning and false assumptions to back your argument that suicide is wholly appropriate, I can only conclude you are part of screwed up cult.

Humanity has thrived because of our ability and willingness to overcome adversity.
post #69 of 101
R.I.P :-(
post #70 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post

Sorry, but with your so-called ready army of links accompanied by defeatist reasoning and false assumptions to back your argument that suicide is wholly appropriate, I can only conclude you are part of screwed up cult.

Humanity has thrived because of our ability and willingness to overcome adversity.

 

You are aware that people are not immortal, right?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #71 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

You are aware that people are not immortal, right?
Totally aware. Anyone with a painful or terminal illness can offer their experiences to the advancement of better care and finding a cure or vaccine.

If one has contracted Ebola, should they have the right to commit suicide?
post #72 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 
Quote:
You're trapped in a burning building though so rolling means rolling in more fire. You'd have to choose the gun.

Or leaving the building.

trapped (træpt) adjective
unable to escape, as from a situation

I used that word in the analogy because a state of mind is similarly inescapable. Mind-altering chemicals give a temporary escape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Anyway, it is not “perfectly okay” to kill yourself, regardless of the situation.

Why is it any different from doing anything else? It's your life, I say it's your choice what you do with it. You're not a possession or accountable to anyone for your own existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer 
he had a loving wife and kids; NOTHING in this world justifies taking your own life like that, particularly when so many people love, care about and depend on you.

Financially, the family should be ok - he even set up trust funds for his kids. They're losing emotional support but if he had died of natural causes, that would have been the case anyway.

Everybody dies, taking your own life is just moving the date forward.

What I find interesting is people's reactions to suicide when it comes to how they perceive individuals. There was a celebrity children's entertainer who turned out to have abused women and children over a long period and jailed recently:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/387510/EXCLUSIVE-Suicide-risk-Rolf-Harris-Max-Clifford-jail

"Yep he should commit suicide"
"Well if he wants to commit harry carry then let him get on with it, it would save the tax payer a lot of money keeping in prison"

If he had killed himself before they found out about this abuse, he'd have been getting the same tributes as Robin Williams.

This actually happened with another TV presenter:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15507826

Tributes poured in when he died of natural causes but then as the years went on they uncovered a huge amount of abuse (abused hospital patients, dead people, children) and then the reactions change:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jan/18/jimmy-savile-abused-1000-victims-bbc

When it comes to good characters like Robin Williams, that's when people say taking your own life is never justified but when it comes to abusers, that gets completely thrown out so it can't be a definitive statement.

I don't think it's an action that has to be justified by anyone. It's a personal choice about someone's own existence and that existence will come to an end all by itself no matter what choices people make.

 

What you describe is an atheist's creed.

 

An atheist owes no-one anything, and is free to kill his own life or anyone else's with no consequences (or so he thinks). 

 

A Christian owes his life to God and has a responsibility to God. One of the Ten Commandments is, 'Thou shalt not kill.'

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #73 of 101

"Atheists" don't believe they are free to takes anyone else's life without consequences.  Psychopaths do.  And there are plenty of religious psychopaths, including many that identify as Christians.

 

As an atheist I'll defend to the death my right to take my own life.  If that sends me to hell (it won't) then so be it.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #74 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

"Atheists" don't believe they are free to takes anyone else's life without consequences.  Psychopaths do.  And there are plenty of religious psychopaths, including many that identify as Christians.

 

As an atheist I'll defend to the death my right to take my own life.  If that sends me to hell (it won't) then so be it.

 

An atheist is free to do whatever he can get away with; he has no reason to do otherwise. He can make up rules for himself to suit himself, as you are doing with suicide. 

 

It's one way to live.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #75 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

 

An atheist is free to do whatever he can get away with; he has no reason to do otherwise.

Empathy.

 

Apparently you need a supernatural being and the threat of an unpleasant afterlife to feel kinship with your fellow human beings.  Others don't.

 

 

Plus, y'know, society and community and all those things that exist perfectly fine without any manifestation of a divine being too.


Edited by Crowley - 8/14/14 at 3:28pm

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #76 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

 

An atheist is free to do whatever he can get away with; he has no reason to do otherwise.

Empathy.

 

Apparently you need a supernatural being and the threat of an unpleasant afterlife to feel kinship with your fellow human beings.  Others don't.

 

 

Plus, y'know, society and community and all those things that exist perfectly fine without any manifestation of a divine being too.

 

So there'd be no crime if everyone had empathy? Got it.

 

We all have a choice to be good or bad. For an atheist, there are no boundaries. For a Christian, the path is narrow.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #77 of 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

 

So there'd be no crime if everyone had empathy? Got it.

 

I get the feeling you're trying to be sarcastic and dismissive, but actually you're pretty much on the money.  Maybe not no crime, since "crime" is quite a broad thing, but the world would certainly be a better place with more empathy.  I believe your Bible preaches it (though there's no way you get to claim it as uniquely Christian).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

 

We all have a choice to be good or bad. For an atheist, there are no boundaries. For a Christian, the path is narrow.

 

The paths are exactly the same width.  A good person is a good person, whether or not they believe in a magic old man in the clouds.  And the Christian path hasn't always been straight in the direction of goodness, it's had a number of chicanes and 180s.

 

There are lots of very horrible god fearing people out there, so enough with this narrow path supremacist horseshit.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #78 of 101
Just once why can't you
keep it respectful and honour Great actor
It is sad when somebody dies for them and family my heart goes out to His family.
Rest in peace
post #79 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Actually, in both the case of gunshots and fire, the pain receptors will typically shut off in cases of extreme pain. The affected areas just go numb.

The comedian Richard Pryor tried to kill himself by pouring alcohol on himself and lighting it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MHK_SCNfbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlFEkkzBxlQ

"When that fire hit your ass, it will sober your ass up quick! I saw something, I went, "Well, that's a pretty blue. You know what? That looks like... FIRE! Fire is inspirational. They should use it in the Olympics, because I ran the 100 in 4.3."

It's slow and painful. The specific options aren't important, the point was if it was between a slow, painful, inevitable, natural route or a quick self-inflicted route, the latter is the better option as they both end the same way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve 
Anyone with a painful or terminal illness can offer their experiences to the advancement of better care and finding a cure or vaccine.

You can say that about anyone without a terminal illness. Would you volunteer to undergo medical experiments to help cure ailments? Why limit it to victims? Christopher Reeve who was close friends with Robin Williams had to live for 9 years in a wheelchair:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722888/Closer-brothers-Robin-Williams-extraordinary-friendship-Christopher-Reeve-penniless-roommates-Hollywood-highs-helping-save-friends-life.html

"Reeve later told Barbara Walters that he ‘wanted to die’ until his despair was lifted by an unexpected visit from his old friend Williams.
Reeve recalls how Williams showed up at the hospital pretending to be an eccentric Russian proctologist who was going to perform a rectal exam on him.
‘I lay on my back, frozen, unable to avoid thinking the darkest thoughts,’ wrote Reeve.
‘Then, at an especially bleak moment, the door flew open and in hurried a squat fellow with a blue scrub hat and a yellow surgical gown and glasses, speaking in a Russian accent. He announced that he was my proctologist and that he had to examine me immediately.
‘My first reaction was that either I was on way too many drugs or I was in fact brain damaged,’ wrote Reeve.
‘For the first time since the accident, I laughed. My old friend had helped me know that somehow I was going to be okay.’"

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=101123

"You look out the window, and you can't believe where you are," he said. "And the thought that keeps going through your mind is, 'This can't be my life. There's been a mistake.'"

But despair turned into determination, and Reeve's will to live prevailed. With the support of his wife, he became America's leading advocate for spinal cord injury research, raising money, writing books, testifying before Congress and giving motivational speeches all over the country."

As you rightly said, people can do some good even in those circumstances but the vast majority of people can't. Reeve did some good because of his celebrity status. A random person with the same injury couldn't have done that and wouldn't have the same level of support. Also, it doesn't mean a cure will come along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve 
If one has contracted Ebola, should they have the right to commit suicide?

Of course. You're saying they should be made to suffer against their will? The symptoms are horrible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66H9RV7ge1I

I don't get why people think the more compassionate route is to force victims to suffer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost 
What you describe is an atheist's creed.
An atheist owes no-one anything, and is free to kill his own life or anyone else's with no consequences (or so he thinks).
A Christian owes his life to God and has a responsibility to God. One of the Ten Commandments is, 'Thou shalt not kill.'
An atheist is free to do whatever he can get away with; he has no reason to do otherwise. He can make up rules for himself to suit himself, as you are doing with suicide.

Everybody picks and chooses what rules they follow. Elevating man-made rules to the status of authority from an unaccountable deity causes this to happen:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/14/robin-williams-britain-first_n_5678587.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley 
As an atheist I'll defend to the death my right to take my own life.

The fortunate thing is that you don't have to as long as you are physically able. Having a right to do it doesn't matter when someone does it because they can't be punished for that choice. Fictional after-life punishments are used to control people's actions in the present. Unfortunately, people who aren't physically able to do this continue to suffer because of the lack of compassion from other human beings.
post #80 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The fortunate thing is that you don't have to as long as you are physically able. Having a right to do it doesn't matter when someone does it because they can't be punished for that choice. Fictional after-life punishments are used to control people's actions in the present. Unfortunately, people who aren't physically able to do this continue to suffer because of the lack of compassion from other human beings.

Very true, and a great tragedy.  Assisted suicide is not without it's problems, but the blanket ban on it is causing so much pain in the name of compassion it's obscene.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPod + iTunes + AppleTV
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Apple remembers Robin Williams with iTunes tribute page