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Apple remembers Robin Williams with iTunes tribute page - Page 3

post #81 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by YvesVilleneuve View Post

Totally aware. Anyone with a painful or terminal illness can offer their experiences to the advancement of better care and finding a cure or vaccine.

If one has contracted Ebola, should they have the right to commit suicide?

Of course they have the right. Without question.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #82 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post Fictional after-life punishments are used to control people's actions in the present. 

 

You seem to be very knowledgable about the after-life; have you been there?

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #83 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

So there'd be no crime if everyone had empathy? Got it.

We all have a choice to be good or bad. For an atheist, there are no boundaries. For a Christian, the path is narrow.

Empathy isn't enough, Christians are to love anyone, and everyone as they love themselves.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #84 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

So there'd be no crime if everyone had empathy? Got it.

We all have a choice to be good or bad. For an atheist, there are no boundaries. For a Christian, the path is narrow.

Empathy isn't enough, Christians are to love anyone, and everyone as they love themselves.

Well said.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #85 of 101

Funny, given your churlishness and spreading of discord on this forum.  Not very Christian of you.

 

I don't actually believe you're a Christian at all, I think this has all been a troll on the forum.  I don't recall you ever mentioning religion before the past couple of days, and now it's in every post?

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post #86 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

 Fictional after-life punishments are used to control people's actions in the present. 

You seem to be very knowledgable about the after-life; have you been there?

I can't visit fictional places unfortunately but given that you'd accept that knowledge of an after-life requires visitation, your own lack of visitation should similarly mean you have no knowledge of it.

I've seen a few statements made suggesting Robin Williams is now in a good or bad place because of his actions. These statements are made to affect emotional states in the present, that's the only truth to them. For people who cared about Robin Williams, they say he's in a good place now to give themselves a positive emotional state. The stand-up comedy club where he'd gone for 30 years used the phrase 'make God laugh' not 'make Satan laugh':

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/12/robin-williams-laugh-factory_n_5672939.html

For people who disagree with his actions during life and of taking his own life, they say he'll be judged and punished:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/08/christians-report-robin-williams-is-in-hell/

The reason they say those things is not because of hatred but because they've spent a lifetime trying to validate a set of rules that they've chosen to be truthful. In order for them to maintain a positive emotional state, they have to stick to those rules because otherwise they'd have to accept they've lived a life full of lies and deceit and that's difficult for anyone to do.

Robin Williams shared his own thoughts on this:

http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/2014/08/robin-williams-thoughts-death-afterlfe



"I believe in heaven and hell. I've had coming attractions of them in my dreams. It’s a weird thing, because the moment you get into a heaven and hell discussion, you go, “Is it a Catholic heaven? Is it a Jewish heaven? It’s like Miami on a nice day. Is it a Buddhist vision?” I believe that you have samples here on earth of heaven.

I live in San Francisco, which to me is close to heaven. It’s not, but it’s real close. Any doctor who deals with madness and psychoses will tell you they've glimpsed hell."

James Lipton: If Heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? (notice the phrase 'when you arrive' not 'if')
Robin Williams: There's seating near the front... the concert begins at 5, there'll be Mozart, Elvis and one of your choosing... it would just be nice if Heaven exists to know that there's laughter, that would be a great thing. Just to hear God go 'two Jews walk into a bar'...

Heaven for people is a representation of everything positive to an individual and it would be defined differently for everyone. Hell represents the worst things conceivable and again varies from one person to another. Robin Williams describes mental anguish as Hell and laughter as his Heaven, that was his escape. An after-life is just another commodity to use to affect your present emotional state.
post #87 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

 Fictional after-life punishments are used to control people's actions in the present. 

You seem to be very knowledgable about the after-life; have you been there?

I can't visit fictional places unfortunately but given that you'd accept that knowledge of an after-life requires visitation, your own lack of visitation should similarly mean you have no knowledge of it.

So you presumably accept that everyone dies, yet the after-life is fictional? You need to brush up on your logic.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #88 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

So you presumably accept that everyone dies, yet the after-life is fictional? You need to brush up on your logic.

After-life = life after death. Why does accepting that everybody dies logically mean that people continue to live?
post #89 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

So you presumably accept that everyone dies, yet the after-life is fictional? You need to brush up on your logic.

After-life = life after death. Why does accepting that everybody dies logically mean that people continue to live?

 

After life means 'after life' - death! Gordon Bennet... I see that logic isn't your forte.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #90 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

After-life = life after death. Why does accepting that everybody dies logically mean that people continue to live?

You should watch the movie Heaven is Real. Btw heaven and hell weren't mentioned until the New Testament.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #91 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

After life means 'after life' - death! Gordon Bennet... I see that logic isn't your forte.
Afterlife is generally taken to mean a form of continued consciousness after death, not death itself. But I'm sure you're aware of that.

Shameless trolling.

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post #92 of 101
Watching the movie What Dreams May Come (not a great film, but I like some of its artistry) will have a very weird mood after these events.

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post #93 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

After life means 'after life' - death! Gordon Bennet... I see that logic isn't your forte.

Oh, I see where you're coming from. But still, the term doesn't mean death, I didn't come up with it, it means life after death and has nothing to do with logic:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/afterlife

Death is not really an event that takes up a period of time, it is simply the end point of life and instantaneous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 
You should watch the movie Heaven is Real.

A movie based on the sayings of a 4 year old are unlikely to convince me otherwise. You can see the kind of contrived statements the kid is making here:



Gretchen: You also say that God is a very, very big person.
Stupid kid: Yeeeah, he can actually fit the entire world into his hands.
Gretchen: Wow... what about Jesus?
Stupid kid: Well... Jesus, he had a rough but kind face... sea blue eyes... aaand a smile that lit up the heavens.
Gretchen: and what about old people, they are not up in heaven, right?
Stupid kid: Nooope, just young adults.

It reminds me of the Balloon Boy incident where the parents got their kid to lie about hiding somewhere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI6UONWCq7A
post #94 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Oh, I see where you're coming from. But still, the term doesn't mean death, I didn't come up with it, it means life after death and has nothing to do with logic:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/afterlife

Death is not really an event that takes up a period of time, it is simply the end point of life and instantaneous.
A movie based on the sayings of a 4 year old are unlikely to convince me otherwise. You can see the kind of contrived statements the kid is making here:



Gretchen: You also say that God is a very, very big person.
Stupid kid: Yeeeah, he can actually fit the entire world into his hands.
Gretchen: Wow... what about Jesus?
Stupid kid: Well... Jesus, he had a rough but kind face... sea blue eyes... aaand a smile that lit up the heavens.
Gretchen: and what about old people, they are not up in heaven, right?
Stupid kid: Nooope, just young adults.

It reminds me of the Balloon Boy incident where the parents got their kid to lie about hiding somewhere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI6UONWCq7A

Now would heaven be heaven if you stood looking like your old earthly self?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #95 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

After life means 'after life' - death! Gordon Bennet... I see that logic isn't your forte.

Oh, I see where you're coming from. But still, the term doesn't mean death, I didn't come up with it, it means life after death and has nothing to do with logic:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/afterlife

Death is not really an event that takes up a period of time, it is simply the end point of life and instantaneous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 
You should watch the movie Heaven is Real.

A movie based on the sayings of a 4 year old are unlikely to convince me otherwise. 

 

Presumably Mozart's parents dismissed his compositions aged 5 out of hand as the puerile wanderings of a silly boy. What a good thing it is that they din't encourage him! :rolleyes:

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #96 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Taking that one line out of context, I just want to say that sometimes killing oneself is the answer, especially with regard to painful terminal illnesses. I don't want anyone denying me my rights to do with my life what I want and no one should be forced to do something against their will.

I know it is long after the discussion, but I wanted to reply to say that I do agree with you here. If I'm a vegetable sustained in a hospital I want to be allowed to die. I think you understood that a circumstance such as this was outside the purview of my response, though.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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post #97 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Taking that one line out of context, I just want to say that sometimes killing oneself is the answer, especially with regard to painful terminal illnesses. I don't want anyone denying me my rights to do with my life what I want and no one should be forced to do something against their will.

I know it is long after the discussion, but I wanted to reply to say that I do agree with you here. If I'm a vegetable sustained in a hospital I want to be allowed to die. I think you understood that a circumstance such as this was outside the purview of my response, though.

 

Anyone in that condition wouldn't be kept alive anyway.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #98 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Anyone in that condition wouldn't be kept alive anyway.

It, and similar circumstances, happen. At least in the US. And my comment applies to other theoretical circumstances, mentioned here, disconnected from the actual topic of clinical depression such as being on fire with a gun nearby.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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post #99 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Anyone in that condition wouldn't be kept alive anyway.

It, and similar circumstances, happen. At least in the US. And my comment applies to other theoretical circumstances, mentioned here, disconnected from the actual topic of clinical depression such as being on fire with a gun nearby.

 

If you're on fire with a gun nearby, you have a choice. You can either try to save your life, or you can try to take it. There are probably other choices too, but we'll deal with just those two for now.

 

The better choice is to try and save your life, but it's understandable if the worse choice is made. Ultimately, it isn't for us to judge.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #100 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

If you're on fire with a gun nearby, you have a choice. You can either try to save your life, or you can try to take it. There are probably other choices too, but we'll deal with just those two for now.

The better choice is to try and save your life, but it's understandable if the worse choice is made. Ultimately, it isn't for us to judge.

My point is that what I wrote was in the context of clinical depression.

Edit: to entertain the discussion, I truly do believe that there are points where it would be suitable to pass away rather than continue. I, for example, would not want to be alive in a case where Alzheimer's had ravaged my mind to the point I recognized nobody and couldn't even take care of myself at the most basic level. In my opinion, we preserve some human beings for too long.
Edited by Xian Zhu Xuande - 8/16/14 at 5:42pm
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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The true measure of a man is how he treats someone that can do him absolutely no good.
  Samuel Johnson
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post #101 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

If you're on fire with a gun nearby, you have a choice. You can either try to save your life, or you can try to take it. There are probably other choices too, but we'll deal with just those two for now.

The better choice is to try and save your life, but it's understandable if the worse choice is made. Ultimately, it isn't for us to judge.

My point is that what I wrote was in the context of clinical depression.

Edit: to entertain the discussion, I truly do believe that there are points where it would be suitable to pass away rather than continue. I, for example, would not want to be alive in a case where Alzheimer's had ravaged my mind to the point I recognized nobody and couldn't even take care of myself at the most basic level. In my opinion, we preserve some human beings for too long.

 

It's easy to feel that, and yet people with Alzheimer's can still lead good lives, even though it can be heartbreaking for their family and friends.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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