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Apple ignores calls to fix 2011 MacBook Pro failures as problem grows - Page 2

post #41 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWoodBass View Post

I must have lucked out, no issues with my early 2011 MacBook Pro 13" to date.

The 13" models don't have a dedicated GPU so aren't affected. The 15" models have integrated graphics too so Apple might be able to disable the GPU by either a hardware or software fix but the fact they haven't so far suggests that might not be an option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor 
Since when has Apple officially "ignored" calls? It may be that they are still evaluating the situation and working out a plan?

They've been denying repairs to people affected. The people affected can't just wait months for Apple to decide to repair their machines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by semi_guy 
This is a well known problem from Nvidia using the wrong compound for their solder balls. NVidia should man up and take care of the issues they have created.

The 2011 models use AMD graphics and NVidia/AMD don't solder the chips to the board.
post #42 of 159

This is definitely happening, and Apple need to protect their brand by admitting it.

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post #43 of 159
Hello,

It is no coincidence that after those MacBook Pro Apple stopped using ATI graphics.

It seems that the only solution is a collective complaint and wait for the justice.

Regards.
post #44 of 159

Hello,

 

It is no coincidence that after those MacBook Pro Apple stopped using ATI graphics.

 

It seems that the only solution is a collective complaint and wait for the justice.

 

Regards.

post #45 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post

The repair for my Macbook Pro 17-inch Early 2011 was actually VERY CHEAP.

When my Macbook Pro's GPU failed after 3 years, and after the expiration of my Applecare warranty, I took my Macbook Pro to my Apple Store and after having the Genius examine it, I asked for Apple's $299 FLAT-RATE REPAIR.

Apple's $299 FLAT-RATE REPAIR is a HUGE BARGAIN - particularly for an out of warranty Mac.

The Apple Store ships it to one of Apple's main repair centers. There they examine the Mac in detail. And they will replace ANYTHING in it that is not up to spec.

For my Macbook Pro 17-inch Early 2011, Apple:
1. Replaced the motherboard with a new motherboard - with a new GPU
2. Replaced the entire HD LCD Screen with a pristine brand new one with new aluminium cover.
3. Replace the PCI ExpressCard cage with a new one
4. Found my OW Computing 16 GB RAM not up to spec (since Apple only officially supports 8 GB RAM for this model) so they took out my OW Computing RAM and placed it in an electrostatic envelope. Then the replaced it with Apple 8 GB RAM. And they returned the OW Computing RAM to me. Of course, I reinstalled the OW Computing RAM since I wanted and it works well with 16 GB RAM.

I got back my Macbook Pro in 4 days. It looks BRAND NEW. It works GREAT!

Note that I seriously doubt that Apple will do a recall for these Macbook Pro GPU failures. I think the vast majority of Macbook Pro 17 2011 continue to work without issues. Out of the 3 million Macbook Pro 17 2011s that were sold, only a tiny number of the Macs have the GPU problem.

Sure, these users are very vocal about their problem. After all, Apple users expect more. BUT they want Apple to rescue them rather than pay for an out of warranty repair. I read all the complaints. And it seems the ones who complain the most are the ones who are cheap and penny pinching. They want something for free. Yet they also purchased the most expensive computer - a Mac. This crybaby sense of entitlement just grates me. Real Apple users are never cheap or penny pinching. They only want the best computing experience. And they are willing and able to pay for it.

If you bought a car, it will only give you at most a 50,000 mile warranty. After that, any repair is YOURproblem. And for European cars like the BMW, those repairs are extremely expensive. This is why they are called enthusiasts cars. When you are an enthusiast, you don't complain about the cost. You only want the best driving experience. If you can't afford it, you wouldn't buy it in the first place - or you would get a better job or two to pay for it.

$299 is a CHEAP price to pay for a FLAT RATE major examination and overhaul of my Mac. Apple did more than just replace the motherboard, way more, over and above way more. I expect it to least another 3 years. I love it!

If you read more carefully you would find that a lot of 15" MBP owners have been charged more than $299 for a fix for their laptops. Some being charged every time they bring back the machine for the same issue. That is not a CHEAP fix. My laptop is now having the same GPU issue it had after paying to get it fixed. THAT is not being CHEAP. When you pay for a premium product you expect it to work. Just because owners are complaining about the issues with their premium laptops isn't being CHEAP, it is being responsible not to keep wasting money on a fix that doesn't last. Just because that CHEAP fix worked for your 17" MBP doesn't mean it works for everyone.

Furthermore, although $299 may be CHEAP for YOU, that does not apply to all. Some people had to save up their money to buy the premium device expecting it to last longer than 3 years. So to have it 'malfunction' after a year to 3 years is totally and completely unacceptable. How about thinking about others and not just yourself!
post #46 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
 

 

<Insert Samsung bashing remark here>

Yes, it could be a fault in the Samsung which is also about three years old. I have not found Samsung to be particularly reliable - new TV failed in a month.

post #47 of 159

I disagree with you Samsung is very reliable and Apple always has some type of problems when they introduce new products especially i phones.

post #48 of 159
I have some information that may lend some assistance. We had one of these and we still had warranty at the time. The issue was persistent. Eventually via the Apple store the screen was replaced but this did not solve the problem. We kept insisting that so much down time trying to deal with an issue was frustrating and asked for a replacement. We kept being denied being given a replacement not because the Apple store didn't want to help us but because it wasn't policy. Eventually they had the computer in the service bay and found an unknown issue which we were told that Cupertino techs acknowledged was a 'design flaw.' As it turns out Cupertino wanted the computer back and instructed the Apple Store here in Canada to replace our MacBook Pro with a new one. They did this as they found a what was termed as a critical flaw in the design of this specific device, which didn't make full sense at the time. So again, the engineering team at Cupertino were were told instructed that our unit be sent back to them.

I am suggesting here that Apple is aware of this issue and that it is a design flaw and that if someone is experiencing this they must do everything they can to ask for a remedy.

Persistence is key with these big companies. Apple tends to be very reasonable but sometimes it takes working with the right person to get the correct help.

The replaced computer, a later 2012 model however has had its screen replaced for a bad wire recently, related to the airport Antenna - out of warranty at a cost of $600.00 - I didn't press the issue. Out of Warranty as the replaced device had to be attached to the original 2011 models warranty, which is definitely a flaw of Apple's. I get value-added, but if they are issuing a new device at any time it should have new warranty or at least the ability to re-purchase Apple care on the replaced device. Apple does not allow for this.
post #49 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijoyner View Post

I'm glad to see this report. I am also having graphics problems with my early 2011 MacBook Pro. It is not showing up on the inbuilt screen, but on an external Samsung screen connected via the thunderbolt port.

 

I find that when I plug in a second screen the graphics switches from the integrated (intel) card to the discrete (AMD) card, so the display looks fine on its own but all glitchy in dual screen. Unfortunately the build in screen also goes glitchy if I watch videos as the graphics switches then too.

post #50 of 159
Laptop GPU defects... This has to stop. I'm disinclined to buy another MacBook because my 3,1 MacBook Pro died from a nvidia failure and these keep showing up in the news. Makes me wonder what the lifespan of the new Mac Pro is. Four years isn't acceptable for any computer.
post #51 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijoyner View Post

I'm glad to see this report. I am also having graphics problems with my early 2011 MacBook Pro. It is not showing up on the inbuilt screen, but on an external Samsung screen connected via the thunderbolt port.

It mostly works OK, but there seems to be a particular shade of blue that sends the external screen crazy (File selection background in Finder). I thought it might either be another faulty connector (I already replaced that about 18 months ago). Or maybe it could be fixed by a firmware upgrade - sometimes firmware can get around hardware problems.
 

OK, it seems this is not the MacBook Pro graphics since I just connected Samsung display direct to Mac Mini server and it still has the same problem. Thus as I have always suspected, it's Samsung at fault.

 

I'm never going to buy Samsung anything again.

post #52 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post
 

I disagree with you Samsung is very reliable and Apple always has some type of problems when they introduce new products especially i phones.

Nope - see my answer I just posted - Samsung does the same on both Mac Mini and MacBook Pro. I've always had problems with Samsung - I just get the feeling they do things on the cheap and their main aim is to capture market share rather than provide quality.

post #53 of 159

Re: the post about external monitors connected via Thunderbolt.

 

I don't think has anything at all to do with the issue at hand. You didn't mention how the external monitor is connected to the MacBook Pro. I assume it's a Thunderbolt/Mini DisplayPort to-"something" adapter. If it's a MiniDisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI (the big honking adapter with the Thunderbolt and USB connector) there's a newer version of the adapter with updated firmware that fixes several issues. 

 

Regarding the main topic ... in all fairness is it right to make a big bold claim that Apple is "Ignoring" this problem? If they've received complaints about it from a statistically significant number of customers you can be assured they are not ignoring the problem. By statistically significant I mean in numbers that are outside of the expected failure rate for the product. In many of these cases where people take to the forumosphere you have a relatively low percentage of people who are "massively vocal" about their problems and scream inordinately loud about their problem. They want their problem to become everyone's problem. This works the whole forumosphere community into a mad frenzy and bloggers and tech sites add fuel to the fire with incendiary headlines that paint the issue in the most negative light possible. When Apple is involved there is no limit to how loud and obnoxious the rhetoric is allowed to get. This is crowd sourced complaining at its best - or worst depending on your perspective. But the bottom line is often the same, throw all manner of reasonableness and professional consideration out the window and just start screaming at the top of your lungs. Oh and hire a lawyer and launch a class action suit while you're at it, because that's just the way we deal with issues today. Exercise the thermonuclear option first rather than trying to engage man to man.

 

I'm not making a claim about whether the problem is widespread or not. It could very well be a case of premature component failure or an assembly defect. All I'm saying is that the path towards a solution is usually not paved with aggressive one-sided attacks, name calling, massive speculation about purposeful wrongdoings, and total lack of insight into what the the provider is actually doing about the issue. There are many stories about Apple doing the right thing to solve problems and most of these follow a pattern where the problem is presented in a reasonable and respectful manner and the person making the decision is given an incentive to exercise the full set of options at their disposal. Shouting and screaming typically does not help establish a dialog that leads to resolution of issues between reasonable parties. 


Edited by DewMe - 8/13/14 at 4:56am
post #54 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybacmac View Post
 

In the absence of any real numbers as to how many MBPs are affected, I'll give Apple the benefit of the doubt that the issue is still being evaluated. In light of what else is going on, this may not be Apple's highest priority right now. I also figure that there is no other computer manufacturer on the planet who would even consider replacing three year old computers, manufacturing error or not. Still, I hope Apple does the right thing* for the owners of affected MBPs.

 

 

 

* Note to TS: I define "right thing" as repair, replace, or credit towards purchase of a new device.

 

"Evaluated" - or perhaps they are in heated negotiations with AMD to see just how much of a recall cost AMD will pay for and not disclose to the public so that Apple can be the hero but not have to pay nearly as much to make that claim. Not that I am hating on Apple - just speculating that there may be more going on than we are aware of. 

post #55 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Faster View Post
 

I smell a lawsuit? Anyone?

Nope. That would already have happened by now if the lawyers smelled a real problem. As this article points out a couple of times, nobody knows how many MacBooks have failed, third party ‘estimates’ are useless, ‘views’ on the discussion forums are meaningless (just like ‘hits’ on a Google search are meaningless). Only Apple knows the true extent of the issue and they are not talking.

post #56 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Nope. That would already have happened by now if the lawyers smelled a real problem. As this article points out a couple of times, nobody knows how many MacBooks have failed, third party ‘estimates’ are useless, ‘views’ on the discussion forums are meaningless (just like ‘hits’ on a Google search are meaningless). Only Apple knows the true extent of the issue and they are not talking.

Right.
We know is that it is a pretty common, random, and seemingly widespread issue. Without real numbers though, none of that means anything.
post #57 of 159
This is pretty disconcerting. I'm still using my 2007 MBP, warts and all, and anticipate still more use from it. I buy Macs because they seem to last FOREVER. Knowing that they don't build them like the used to might make me re-think my plans when I finally need to replace what I've got.
post #58 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuarayer View Post
 

 

So were the 2008 Macbook Pro's with the nVidia graphics card issue but Apple still replaced those well beyond the warranty time period.


Not willingly.

 

It took a class action lawsuit to force them to do those repairs.  The same settlement affected Dell & HP.

 

I suspect it'll take one here as well.  Nvidia seems to have serious problems building graphics chips that can handle the heat in a laptop.

post #59 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Nope. That would already have happened by now if the lawyers smelled a real problem. As this article points out a couple of times, nobody knows how many MacBooks have failed, third party ‘estimates’ are useless, ‘views’ on the discussion forums are meaningless (just like ‘hits’ on a Google search are meaningless). Only Apple knows the true extent of the issue and they are not talking.

I dunno. . .
Sometimes the little guy wins and it doesn't always require a class-action. If it's that important just make sure you do your homework.
http://www.geek.com/apple/apple-loses-court-case-on-defective-nvidia-gpus-in-macbooks-1484061/
melior diabolus quem scies
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post #60 of 159
Shame on you, Apple. My MBP 17" is broken now, and they're not even offering a 17" MPB model anymore. I can use it running gfxCardStatus, forcing the use of the integrated chips, but it still crashes when entering TimeMachine. Reboots take 3-5 attempts to bring the machine back to life.

APPLE products are supposed to last longer, not only to look better, than the PC crap out there. Bought in early 2011 and dead in early 2014?! I am actively considering NOT buying a new Mac.
post #61 of 159
Originally Posted by bitzandbitez View Post
Use your google skills to do a search for FAILED MACBOOK PROS 2011 and see for yourself the APPLE DISCUSSION BOARDS ARE LIGHTING UP LIKE XMAS TREES...

 

That’s not really evidence of anything.

 

Originally Posted by waybacmac View Post

* Note to TS: I define "right thing" as repair, replace, or credit towards purchase of a new device.

 

What else would I think it means? :lol: The same program as the 8600M ought to be in place here. 

post #62 of 159

Several years ago, the semiconductor industry moved to lead free solder balls. Unfortunately, this lead to a problem of cracked solder joints that disconnect the solder ball from PCB boards and even pulling the pad from the PCB board. This led to many semiconductor companies replacing devices and initiating large studies to find the best solution. You can find many of this studies online:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pad_cratering

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpls/abs_all.jsp?arnumber=6066933&tag=1

http://esmat.esa.int/Publications/Published_papers/ESA-STM-267.pdf

http://ansys.net/ansys/papers/s30p5a.pdf

http://www.semlab.com/failureanalysisofbgas.pdf

 

 

This also led to life sustaining medical devices be exempt from lead free regulations to improve reliability. After all these studies, semiconductor companies figured out the best way to prevent this issue. This problem mostly affected early 2000 production devices. 

 

AMD (who sold off their fabs in 2009) and Nvidia suffered through this much later than other companies. Both companies do not fabricate semiconductors. They contract the manufacturing to other companies. Since they are fab-less companies, they blamed their poorly selected manufacturing partners. So instead of replacing the parts, they have engaged in finger pointing and looking for someone to blame. Apple, Dell, Microsoft, and others electronics companies have been caught in the middle of this. Just much like the famous bulging capacitor issue...

 

Anyway, they all should acknowledge the well known problem and institute policies to fix it.

 

When my MacBooks fail, it is very random. So I just take a whole bunch of pictures of the failures and bring them to a Genius appointment. They will run their test and say everything passes, then I show my pictures. That usually gets the: "Oh that is really a problem!" One I forced a machine to fail at the store when I ran a game... Usually the pictures do a good job of explaining the problem. If I get a Genius saying this is new, I just pull up the link to the thread of this issue in Apple forums. That usually gets a quick, will send this off for repair...

 

Now be wary of 2011 used computers sold. They will eventually fail... Do not buy one if it has not have a motherboard replacement in the past year. 

post #63 of 159
An alternative option is to invoke consumer protection laws if they apply where you bought the MacBook Pro. My late-2011 failed in April and under consumer protection Apple agreed to a no-cost repair which came with 90 days warranty. Short version - the refurbished logic boards kept failing within a few weeks, so Apple replaced the machine with a new retina MacBook Pro.
post #64 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post
 

Exercise the thermonuclear option first rather than trying to engage man to man.

 

Other issues aside, I don't know if that's fair. If Apple takes the position that the warranty is expired so the owner is SOL, there's not much one can do "man to man." A machine that costs as much as a MacBook Pro that is promoted as a high-quality alternative to unreliable dreck should be expected to live longer than 3 years. If it doesn't, and Apple refuses to do anything about it, what can an individual do? Joining with others to negotiate from a position of "strength in numbers" is a reasonable response.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post
 

Shouting and screaming typically does not help establish a dialog that leads to resolution of issues between reasonable parties. 

 

True, but Apple service is often not a "reasonable party." A few years ago Apple's service policy resulted in my having to pull a Mac Pro from service and haul it in to a Genius Bar to "diagnose" an obviously failed optical drive. It was that or ship it to a service center. I complained bitterly to no avail. I insisted that we could perform any necessary diagnostics required to eliminate other causes over the phone, and I could certainly manage the four screws and one ribbon cable involved in replacing it. Nope. Haul it in.

 

So I did. When they eventually came to the obvious conclusion that the drive had failed, they told me they didn't have one in stock and that I'd either have to leave it with them or haul the machine back into the store AGAIN in seven-to-ten days. Calm, reasoned discussion of alternatives got me nowhere, so I tried yelling. That worked. A week later I received a new drive.

 

Rational solution finding only works if both parties are willing to play along. Because Apple is a really big company and they have a quality reputation to protect, they have policies that allow them to control the service experience and minimize callbacks. That's usually a good thing, but there will always be some issues that are better resolved in ways the policy wasn't designed to address. If the party on the other side of the counter is the type who won't deviate from the printed playbook, sometimes yelling is the only way to get the attention of someone who will.

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

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V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

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Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

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V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

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post #65 of 159
I'm a victim of this. Bought the early 2011 17" and early 2013 and this exact thing happened. I was watching a Netflix video (via-silverlight) when it first gave the distorted screen, and then I got a blue screen, I reset the computer and it seemed to work for about a week, but then the whole thing just crashed. I couldn't get past the grey start-up screen with the apple logo. It was out of warranty but apple sent it out to get refurbished and I had to pay. Anyhow, the problem seemed to me related to running silverlight, for some reason when I watch Netflix the internal cooling fan kicks on as if I'm running some kind of graphics intensive game. I'm not looking forward to when this will occur again.
post #66 of 159
I have a Mid-2011 that had the same problem, and a few other mid-2011 owners are on the same forum threads beefing about the same thing.

My laptops graphics card died in the exact same manner all the ones on the forum are dying. I fought with Apple tooth and nail over this for nearly 3 weeks and then finally gave in and paid the $630 it cost to have it replaced in Canada.

I asked for the old board back as i wanted to have a look at it and inspect the solder joints on the GPU but my request was refused saying it wasn't possible, which is weird considering i actually *bought* the new board and didn't have it replaced under Applecare. Technically both boards belonged to me.
post #67 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by goeh View Post

I'm a self-employed iOS and web developer. I bought my late 2011 MBP for over $3000 in December 2011. It worked without major problems until last week. It started as gfx glitches as shown by many screen shots. Then last Friday it did not boot at all with blue banding on the external display.

I payed extra for Apple Care and I'm a registered (paying) iOS developer. I pay extra for iCloud storage. I own several Apple devices. What pisses me off is that despite being a business customer/partner and an ambassador for Apple I did not get *any* benefits at the Apple Store. All slots were booked (by teens with smashed iPhone displays or Facebook problems). They first recommended me to come back another day. But I insisted and waited/hoped for a cancelled time slot. And after just 30 minutes I got help.

But the logic board was not in stock so the repair would take 5-7 days. This is a disaster for my business! I'm loosing money every hour. I thought Apple Care would help here and reduce the down time, but the only thing it gave me was free repair. That's ok but I expected a little more.

The Apple Store guy gave me an "Apple Joint Venture" folder and told me next time I buy a computer I should pay even more to get benefits like free backup computer while waiting for repair. I went home from the Apple Store very disappointed.

But I felt better later that day when I managed to restore the backup on a spare Mac Mini, so I only lost a day. I'm now up to (reduced) speed again and coding iOS and web apps almost like before the crash. But I really miss my MBP and I hope I will get it back soon.

Lessons learned: Keep a spare Mac available and make sure your backups are current. It's very easy to restore the backup onto a new computer.
Holy crap, does someone have a sense of entitlement or what? And what makes you so special that you think you deserve more attention and better care than the other people that come to an Apple store looking for help with their issues?

Get off your freaking high horse. We're not talking Jaguar's here where you actually NEED a second car in your garage because one is always in the shop. Crap happens, parts wear out and die, and that's a fact of life. I don't disagree about Apple needing to be more vocal and involved with this matter, but the fact is, this is a three year old machine now. Most PC laptops are lucky if they give you 9 months of service without some part calling it quits.
post #68 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

I disagree with you Samsung is very reliable and Apple always has some type of problems when they introduce new products especially i phones.
Looks like we have a paid Samsung shill here folks...
post #69 of 159

This is really unexpected from Apple... sad... for the people who're suffering from this problem.  Maybe from now on, Apple won't go that extra step for all its loyal customers.  All the premium we pay are going into aapl investors' pocket.  Buy aapl and use the profit to fix or buy apple products.  That's my strategy. 

post #70 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

I disagree with you Samsung is very reliable and Apple always has some type of problems when they introduce new products especially i phones.

Could you detail these "always" problems they have?

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post #71 of 159
The thinner the laptops got, the hotter that big Mac Pro GPU sandwich becomes.

Just maybe it was all inevitable.
post #72 of 159
I look after over 100 macs for various friends, family and acquaintances. The list of Macs I help with has been growing ever since the old Mac "demo days" late last century.

I have four macs that exhibited the described hardware problems. I have fixed two and am about to embark on the third fix. While this may not work for everyone there does seem to be a general class of problem that is present. Here's my analysis.

The root cause of the problems I'm seeing appears to be related to heat. Or rather heating/cooling cycles. The most affected component is the graphics cards or on-board graphics chips. It is as if the existing solder joints crystallize over time, the most affected macs are the ones that have been used as gaming machines or have notoriously hot graphics environments. Eventually affected joints go electrically out-of-spec and the chips they connect fail in some progressive manner.

The two fixes I have performed have involved pulling the motherboards and graphics card, removing as many plastic parts (tape, insulation, etc) as reasonable. Opening up any heat sinks and removing the (usually excessively applied) thermal compound (cleaning the chip surfaces with isopropyl alcohol to remove all the compound residue). Cover any remaining plastic in baking foil (protects Ethernet port etc. plastic). Make 3 or 4 foil balls (an inch or so diameter). Rest the board, big chip side up, on the foil balls on a cookie tray and bake them for no more than 9 mins at 395 degrees F in a normal household oven (not a toaster oven as they cannot maintain an even temperature or have the temperature survive door opening well). Once the time is up, carefully remove the tray from the oven, let cool to room temperature (no shock cooling), apply fresh thermal compound (just enough to connect chips to heat sinks without air gaps, and certainly no extruded residue when reassembled). Carefully reassemble without twisting/bending the newly reflowed boards.

This reflows the solder and starts the crystallization clock over again. Google "solder reflow mac" for other reports. I chose the baking approach because it seemed to me to be the least arbitrary (most repeatable, as opposed to heat gun)

It's a major procedure but so far it has worked for me every time (two for two). So far I've fixed a late 2008 MacBook Pro and a 2011 iMac using this method. So far the fixes have both lasted several months and counting (three and four respectively).

YMMV. Please use available tear down guides (those at ifixit.com are generally pretty good). I have a magnetic work pad and take lots of pictures as I disassemble (to ensure screws and wires go back in correct places). Takes a bit of patience and care. Working slowly is always better (calming breaths etc.).

I should get notification of replies to this thread and will respond to questions posted in-thread as I'm able.
post #73 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panoptician View Post
 

I know someone who had the GPU in his 2011 15" fail in less than two years. Apple is simply replacing it with the same part, so people will likely find themselves in the same situation again.


This. 

I had mine fail under warranty and they swapped it. It failed a second time, out of warranty, and I had to cover the cost. 

 

I would have much rather invested that money into a new MBP, but since I just upgraded SSD, RAM, and BTcard there isn't a reason to.

post #74 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

2011? That's beyond the normal warranty.

Same for most cars too. So you think it's acceptable to have to replace your car every three or four years because it is no longer drivable? 

post #75 of 159
It may be 3 years old, but the hardware is still extremely usable to this day and for at least a few more years. I'd hope they would find a way to fix this issue. Multiple replacement logic boards kind of sucks lol.
post #76 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagMan1979 View Post

[...] the fact is, this is a three year old machine now. 

 

Three is not exactly elderly. I've never experienced a catastrophic failure in a machine only three years old. Have you? I've managed to break a switch and a port cover, but barring deliberate abuse (like blocking the vents), the only way for components on a logic board to fail that quickly is a defect, either in the component or the product design.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagMan1979 View Post

Most PC laptops are lucky if they give you 9 months of service without some part calling it quits.

 

I suppose some cheap mechanical parts like switches or hinges may fail, but the only serious computer failure I've had in 30 years was a Apple MacBook Pro that died last year at six years old. My old Vaio was five years old when I bought that Mac, and it still works fine now.

 

Even if it's true that current PC laptops die sooner, it's easier to accept when you get your money's worth out of it. If a $750 - $1000 machine dies after three years the cost per year is about the same as our now-dead MacBook Pro. I could live with that.

 

What I could NOT live with is paying twice as much and getting the same level of reliability and longevity. I don't think three years is old enough that one should reasonably expect to start having problems.

 

 

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

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V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

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Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

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V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

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post #77 of 159

Happened to mine a couple of months ago. No warning, just got the lines across the screen and then nothing.

 

Because I purchased it from the Apple online store they told me EU law meant that were still liable for any hardware failures (up to six years). I wasn't going to argue. New £450 motherboard fitted in a couple of hours (on a Sunday) at Cambridge Apple store. It cost me nothing.

post #78 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post
 

 

Other issues aside, I don't know if that's fair. If Apple takes the position that the warranty is expired so the owner is SOL, there's not much one can do "man to man." A machine that costs as much as a MacBook Pro that is promoted as a high-quality alternative to unreliable dreck should be expected to live longer than 3 years. If it doesn't, and Apple refuses to do anything about it, what can an individual do? Joining with others to negotiate from a position of "strength in numbers" is a reasonable response.

 

 

True, but Apple service is often not a "reasonable party." A few years ago Apple's service policy resulted in my having to pull a Mac Pro from service and haul it in to a Genius Bar to "diagnose" an obviously failed optical drive. It was that or ship it to a service center. I complained bitterly to no avail. I insisted that we could perform any necessary diagnostics required to eliminate other causes over the phone, and I could certainly manage the four screws and one ribbon cable involved in replacing it. Nope. Haul it in.

 

So I did. When they eventually came to the obvious conclusion that the drive had failed, they told me they didn't have one in stock and that I'd either have to leave it with them or haul the machine back into the store AGAIN in seven-to-ten days. Calm, reasoned discussion of alternatives got me nowhere, so I tried yelling. That worked. A week later I received a new drive.

 

Rational solution finding only works if both parties are willing to play along. Because Apple is a really big company and they have a quality reputation to protect, they have policies that allow them to control the service experience and minimize callbacks. That's usually a good thing, but there will always be some issues that are better resolved in ways the policy wasn't designed to address. If the party on the other side of the counter is the type who won't deviate from the printed playbook, sometimes yelling is the only way to get the attention of someone who will.


Sadly, I think you are right for the majority of cases. I've had very good success appealing to the high road and the higher-ups in companies. If you are polite but firm and escalate up the chain chances are that you'll get more action than taking the word of the front line support people as the last word and then taking it to crowd sourcing. But that's just me and I don't have a 2011 MBP that's ailing. I'll still stick to my guns and say that Apple is not ignoring this issue. If 2011 products are failing in numbers that don't make sense based on the reliability estimates that were established for the product at launch, Apple has to be all over this. They have a reputation and customer commitment to uphold. If they lose that they are in serious trouble.

 

I completely agree with the assertion that the length of the warranty in no way represents the useful life of the product. Electronic products typically exhibit a bathtub curve failure rate, either failing very early (infant mortality) or very late in their lifecycle unless subjected to some damaging influence like excessive shock or heat. If the 2011 products are deviating from this expected failure profile some sort of corrective action is probably required to p[reserve Apple's position with its customers. Even the government depreciation schedule for IT assets like computers is 5 years, so there is at some level an expectation that the payback or recovery period for these products is at least 5 years. To me this would be a "fair" argument for consumers to use. Of course you'd also have to depreciate the value of the computer over this time frame.

 

Lastly, it's not always reasonable to assume that the more you pay for a product the longer it should last. In fact it's hard to find any product advertised as lasting longer based on initial selling price. I'd bet there are not a large number of owners of exotic sports cars that are raving about the low maintenance costs and amazing reliability of their expensive cars. As consumers we want and expect high price to equate with high reliability, but unless the manufacturer is backing this with solid guarantees you are probably going to be disappointed.

post #79 of 159
My MBP 2011 crashed 4 times in six months, all out of warranty.
First time I ~$300 for a new motherboard and HD. I didn't think there was anything wrong with the HD, so several days after they sent it off, I asked if they could have the HD sent back. They were able to do it, so that saved all my data.

The second and third times, I swapped out the HD before they sent it off.

The fourth time I told them they had striked out and I didn't want a 2011 repair or replacement.

The Genius said to let him confer with his boss. After about 15 minutes he appeared with a box under his arm. "'Here, he said, this is "yours".

It was a brand new MBP, top of the line, with 1 TB SSD, 16 GB memory, and fastest I7, retina screen. They said they would transfer the data from my old HD to the new one.

The new computer starts up in 9 seconds.

The only problem is they didn't transfer the Windows partition, so I lost that.

Happy anyway.
post #80 of 159

Apple are deleting every post I make on the support forum, informing people that there is a petition on change.org. I have got a screengrab of my last post which was deleted 30 seconds after posting which I can share if people want. It just shows how desperate apple are to keep people in the dark about a solution to this ridiculous problem. All they are doing is pushing their otherwise loyal customers away. This is the first and now last apple product I will buy.

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