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post #121 of 159

Maybe you should do some reading before you dismiss other people's achievements that dwarf your own

 

Here's somewhere to start: http://pc-history.org/altair.htm

 

Apple don't design in a vacuum, they stand on the shoulders of giants, as we all do.

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post #122 of 159
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Maybe you should do some reading before you dismiss other people's achievements that dwarf your own

 

Thanks for making this about me when we were clearly discussing the comparative importance of the Altair and the Apple ][. Anything else to add?

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #123 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They were “smartphones” in the same way the Altair was a “personal computer” before the Apple ][.

Question is, would Apple have created the iPhone if there weren't smartphones already in existence?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #124 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They were “smartphones” in the same way the Altair was a “personal computer” before the Apple ][.

Question is, would Apple have created the iPhone if there weren't smartphones already in existence?

 

We'll never know, so the question is moot.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #125 of 159
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Question is, would Apple have created the iPhone if there weren't smartphones already in existence?

 

Of course. Because the lack of quality products remains.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #126 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They were “smartphones” in the same way the Altair was a “personal computer” before the Apple ][.

Question is, would Apple have created the iPhone if there weren't smartphones already in existence?

 

We'll never know, so the question is moot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Question is, would Apple have created the iPhone if there weren't smartphones already in existence?

 

Of course. Because the lack of quality products remains.

 

I seem to recall Marvin saying that the first iPhone wasn't a smartphone. I disagreed.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #127 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

We'll never know, so the question is moot.

When has Apple created something new, not seen before, and not something reimagined?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #128 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

We'll never know, so the question is moot.

When has Apple created something new, not seen before, and not something reimagined?

 

Is that a trick question?

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #129 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Is that a trick question?

The trick is coming up with a answer.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #130 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Is that a trick question?

The trick is coming up with a answer.

 

Ok, I’ll bite.

 

There is nothing new under the sun.

 

Apple must have hundreds, if not thousands, of products not seen before in their labs.

 

When has Apple not created something reimagined? Without access to their labs, I couldn't tell you. Drop Sir J. I. a line, and he might tell you. 

 

I win! :) 

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #131 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Ok, I’ll bite.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Apple must have hundreds, if not thousands, of products not seen before in their labs.

When has Apple not created something reimagined? Without access to their labs, I couldn't tell you. Drop Sir J. I. a line, and he might tell you. 

I win! 1smile.gif  

Something unseen can neither be proven nor disproven, so it doesn't count.

I don't think Solomon had a smartphone, but he would've had one hell of a contact list. lol.gif
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #132 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Ok, I’ll bite.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Apple must have hundreds, if not thousands, of products not seen before in their labs.

When has Apple not created something reimagined? Without access to their labs, I couldn't tell you. Drop Sir J. I. a line, and he might tell you. 

I win! 1smile.gif  

Something unseen can neither be proven nor disproven, so it doesn't count.

I don't think Solomon had a smartphone, but he would've had one hell of a contact list. lol.gif

Steve Jobs is on record as saying that he's proudest of the things Apple hasn't shipped, which I would call proof.

What was the earliest long distance communication? God speaking to Adam, I guess. After that, men shouting, then fire. Though whether Adam and Eve raised their voices from afar when arguing over the apple, I don't know. 😃
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #133 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Steve Jobs is on record as saying that he's proudest of the things Apple hasn't shipped, which I would call proof.

But we don't know what those are. Could be a bunch of versions of the iPhone before deciding on the design that did ship, or he could've been lying.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #134 of 159

A man now deceased claimed, while offering no examples, that he was proudest (i.e. he was being hyperbolic already) of things he'd said no to, and BF considers that proof that Apple created products in their labs that were unlike anything on earth, and didn't release them?

 

Wow.

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post #135 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Ok, I’ll bite.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Apple must have hundreds, if not thousands, of products not seen before in their labs.

When has Apple not created something reimagined? Without access to their labs, I couldn't tell you. Drop Sir J. I. a line, and he might tell you. 

I win! 1smile.gif  

Something unseen can neither be proven nor disproven, so it doesn't count.

I don't think Solomon had a smartphone, but he would've had one hell of a contact list. lol.gif

Steve Jobs is on record as saying that he's proudest of the things Apple hasn't shipped, which I would call proof.

What was the earliest long distance communication? God speaking to Adam, I guess. After that, men shouting, then fire. Though whether Adam and Eve raised their voices from afar when arguing over the apple, I don't know. 😃
You sir are elevating trolling to a new level.
post #136 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

A man now deceased claimed, while offering no examples, that he was proudest (i.e. he was being hyperbolic already) of things he'd said no to, and BF considers that proof that Apple created products in their labs that were unlike anything on earth, and didn't release them?

Wow.

I didn't say that; your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #137 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Ok, I’ll bite.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Apple must have hundreds, if not thousands, of products not seen before in their labs.

When has Apple not created something reimagined? Without access to their labs, I couldn't tell you. Drop Sir J. I. a line, and he might tell you. 

I win! 1smile.gif  

Something unseen can neither be proven nor disproven, so it doesn't count.

I don't think Solomon had a smartphone, but he would've had one hell of a contact list. lol.gif

Steve Jobs is on record as saying that he's proudest of the things Apple hasn't shipped, which I would call proof.

What was the earliest long distance communication? God speaking to Adam, I guess. After that, men shouting, then fire. Though whether Adam and Eve raised their voices from afar when arguing over the apple, I don't know. 😃
You sir are elevating trolling to a new level.

Someone has to try and bring you up from the dirt.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #138 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Ok, I’ll bite.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Apple must have hundreds, if not thousands, of products not seen before in their labs.

When has Apple not created something reimagined? Without access to their labs, I couldn't tell you. Drop Sir J. I. a line, and he might tell you. 

I win! 1smile.gif  

Something unseen can neither be proven nor disproven, so it doesn't count.

I don't think Solomon had a smartphone, but he would've had one hell of a contact list. lol.gif

Steve Jobs is on record as saying that he's proudest of the things Apple hasn't shipped, which I would call proof.

What was the earliest long distance communication? God speaking to Adam, I guess. After that, men shouting, then fire. Though whether Adam and Eve raised their voices from afar when arguing over the apple, I don't know. 😃
You sir are elevating trolling to a new level.

Someone has to try and bring you up from the dirt.
Thank you for the offer of a helping hand. Fortunately I do not require it. I much prefer reading you write from it. 1tongue.gif
post #139 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Ok, I’ll bite.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Apple must have hundreds, if not thousands, of products not seen before in their labs.

When has Apple not created something reimagined? Without access to their labs, I couldn't tell you. Drop Sir J. I. a line, and he might tell you. 

I win! 1smile.gif  

Something unseen can neither be proven nor disproven, so it doesn't count.

I don't think Solomon had a smartphone, but he would've had one hell of a contact list. lol.gif

Steve Jobs is on record as saying that he's proudest of the things Apple hasn't shipped, which I would call proof.

What was the earliest long distance communication? God speaking to Adam, I guess. After that, men shouting, then fire. Though whether Adam and Eve raised their voices from afar when arguing over the apple, I don't know. 😃
You sir are elevating trolling to a new level.

Someone has to try and bring you up from the dirt.
Thank you for the offer of a helping hand. Fortunately I do not require it. I much prefer reading you write from it. 1tongue.gif

 

 

Even you can be saved; try holding the helping hand.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #140 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Question is, would Apple have created the iPhone if there weren't smartphones already in existence?

Another fun question is:  Would most smartphones be touch screens without physical keyboards if the iphone didn't exist?

 

I think the answer to both questions is yes, although the timeline might be a year or two longer.  But we don't live in a vacuum and will never know.

 

Thankfully we don't live in a vacuum and there are many companies competing for our money.  So they all stand on the shoulders of those before them, and copy the best ideas to make better products.  Which is good for all of us.  

 

Final thought, perhaps some companies do more copying than inventing while other companies do more inventing than copying.  Maybe some companies are 50/50 in that regard.

post #141 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechLover View Post

Another fun question is:  Would most smartphones be touch screens without physical keyboards if the iphone didn't exist?

I think the answer to both questions is yes, although the timeline might be a year or two longer.  But we don't live in a vacuum and will never know.

Thankfully we don't live in a vacuum and there are many companies competing for our money.  So they all stand on the shoulders of those before them, and copy the best ideas to make better products.  Which is good for all of us.  

Final thought, perhaps some companies do more copying than inventing while other companies do more inventing than copying.  Maybe some companies are 50/50 in that regard.

We already know that entirely touchscreen phones was already being designed by LG, but it probably would've taken a few years before multi touch was incorporated.

As far as copying goes I agree. While some followed the paradigm shift created by Apple, and rightly so, Samsung chose to copy, but one can't deny credit to Samsung for the tech they created that a great deal of cell phones use today.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #142 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


We already know that entirely touchscreen phones was already being designed by LG, but it probably would've taken a few years before multi touch was incorporated.

As far as copying goes I agree. While some followed the paradigm shift created by Apple, and rightly so, Samsung chose to copy, but one can't deny credit to Samsung for the tech they created that a great deal of cell phones use today.

We agree so much it's making me sick.  This is the internet for crying out loud!  :)

 

I had no idea until recently that samsung has been making cell phones since 1988. 

 

From samsung electronics wikipedia page:

 

Samsung Electronics launched its first mobile phone in 1988, in the South Korean market.[15] Sales were initially poor and by the early 1990s Motorola held a market share of over 60 percent in the country's mobile phone market compared to just 10 percent for Samsung.[15]

 

And then a couple fun facts from motorola's wikipedia page:

 

In 1969 Neil Armstrong spoke the famous words "one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" from the Moon on a Motorola transceiver.[16]

In 1973, Motorola demonstrated the first hand-held portable telephone.[17]

post #143 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechLover View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Question is, would Apple have created the iPhone if there weren't smartphones already in existence?

Another fun question is:  Would most smartphones be touch screens without physical keyboards if the iphone didn't exist?

 

I think the answer to both questions is yes, although the timeline might be a year or two longer.  But we don't live in a vacuum and will never know.

 

Thankfully we don't live in a vacuum and there are many companies competing for our money.  So they all stand on the shoulders of those before them, and copy the best ideas to make better products.  Which is good for all of us.  

 

Final thought, perhaps some companies do more copying than inventing while other companies do more inventing than copying.  Maybe some companies are 50/50 in that regard.

 

I think Steve Jobs described the first iPhone at the keynote as five years ahead of everyone else, so I would presume that we wouldn't have had a vague equivalent until 2012 without the iPhone.

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- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #144 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

 

I think Steve Jobs described the first iPhone at the keynote as five years ahead of everyone else, so I would presume that we wouldn't have had a vague equivalent until 2012 without the iPhone.

Sure.  You might be right but we will never know.

 

In reference to the first question by dasanman69, how long would it take apple to come up with all of the existing smartphone technology it incorporated into the iphone?  5 years?  10 years?  2 years?

 

My point is its not only a wash, but we will never really know and can only offer our best guesses of alternate realities.

 

Regarding Jobs standing on stage at the original iphone keynote and saying that the iphone was 5 years ahead of the competition.  I agree with him 100%.  Hands down it was 5 years ahead.  I would know as I bought the 8 gig the day it came out.  However the rest of the world does not stand still, and 5 years later the competition was starting to catch up.  Now its over 7 years later and the competition is pretty stiff these days.  We are saturated with some awesome devices today.

post #145 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I didn't say that; your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired.
That's exactly what you said, you numbskull. Stop copying TS, he's the last person on this forum you should consider a papa bear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Steve Jobs is on record as saying that he's proudest of the things Apple hasn't shipped, which I would call proof.

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post #146 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I didn't say that; your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired.
That's exactly what you said, you numbskull. Stop copying TS, he's the last person on this forum you should consider a papa bear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Steve Jobs is on record as saying that he's proudest of the things Apple hasn't shipped, which I would call proof.

 

No; you need to read more carefully.

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- African proverb
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post #147 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

C'mon, you're not one of these young kids that doesn't know smartphones existed before the iPhone. One always learns from the competition, even if it's what not to do.

 

World's first 'smartphone' celebrates 20 years - http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28802053

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

That's exactly what you said, you numbskull. Stop copying TS, he's the last person on this forum you should consider a papa bear.

 

Oh Crowley, you just love feeding the trolls, don't you?

post #148 of 159
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
The IBM smartphone will be displayed in a section of the gallery called The Cell

 

This garbage will be imprisoned for life? Good.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #149 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

C'mon, you're not one of these young kids that doesn't know smartphones existed before the iPhone. One always learns from the competition, even if it's what not to do.

 

World's first 'smartphone' celebrates 20 years - http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28802053

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

That's exactly what you said, you numbskull. Stop copying TS, he's the last person on this forum you should consider a papa bear.

 

Oh Crowley, you just love feeding the trolls, don't you?

 

I wasn't aware of him feeding you recently.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #150 of 159

Sheesh, we're onto "I know you are but what am I" now?

 

 

Where's a billy goat gruff when you need one?

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post #151 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

I wasn't aware of him feeding you recently.

 

Both you and TS have posted saying that you enjoy trolling here.  And what are you doing trying to attack me?  First, I'm pretty much immune to that sort of stuff, especially on the Internet.  Second, weren't you just in another thread crying about someone attacking you?

post #152 of 159
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
Both you and TS have posted saying that you enjoy trolling here.


Nah, try again.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #153 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

Nah, try again.

 

I know what I saw, but if you claim that you're not here to troll, then more power to you.  We'll all be thrilled when your posting habits reflect this change.  :)

post #154 of 159
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
I know what I saw...


Then get your eyes checked.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #155 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 

Oh Crowley, you just love feeding the trolls, don't you?

It's ok, once they fall back on the imbecilic "read it again" argument you know they've run out of any of whatever trolls use for ammo.

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post #156 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

C'mon, you're not one of these young kids that doesn't know smartphones existed before the iPhone. One always learns from the competition, even if it's what not to do.

 

World's first 'smartphone' celebrates 20 years - http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28802053

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

That's exactly what you said, you numbskull. Stop copying TS, he's the last person on this forum you should consider a papa bear.

 

Oh Crowley, you just love feeding the trolls, don't you?

 

I wasn't aware of him feeding you recently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 

Oh Crowley, you just love feeding the trolls, don't you?

It's ok, once they fall back on the imbecilic "read it again" argument you know they've run out of any of whatever trolls use for ammo.

 

Funny that. See, how it works is that you read someone's post and respond accordingly. If you only read part of it or misread it through carelessness or malice, you get called out for it.

 

You'll learn one day.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #157 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

A man now deceased claimed, while offering no examples, that he was proudest (i.e. he was being hyperbolic already) of things he'd said no to, and BF considers that proof that Apple created products in their labs that were unlike anything on earth, and didn't release them?
Wow.

It's a well-known fact that the government let Apple study all the paper-thin devices the aliens were carrying in the pockets of their skin-tight flight suits. FACT, I tell you! Furthermore, that the aliens bore an uncanny resemblance to Great Leader, Kim Jong-il, is just an unfortunate coincident. Nothing more!
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #158 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

 

I wasn't aware of him feeding you recently.

 

Funny that. See, how it works is that you read someone's post and respond accordingly. If you only read part of it or misread it through carelessness or malice, you get called out for it.

 

You'll learn one day.

 

Yeah, yeah.  If you meant something different, you expressed it terribly, the fault is most definitely not mine.  Except of course, you didn't mean something different.

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post #159 of 159
They already are taking their chip business elsewhere. Check out news relating to Taiwan Semiconductor arrangement.
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