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Apple unlikely to sell sapphire iPhones this year, is setting the stage for future models - JP...

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
Apple's investments in sapphire may one day result in iPhone cover displays made of the material, but sapphire is unlikely to appear in this year's models due to prohibitive costs associated with producing the material in large quantities, investment firm J.P. Morgan said on Monday.




Analyst Rod Hall issued a note to investors, a copy of which was provided to AppleInsider, in which he reacted to a report from last week suggesting that sapphire display costs remain high. The source of that rumor was The Wall Street Journal, which made highly questionable claims that suggested Apple remains undecided about whether to use sapphire displays on its next iPhone, which is expected to be unveiled on Sept. 9.

Hall noted that Apple's sapphire partner, GT Advanced Technologies, has acquired a company known as Twin Creeks, which uses a wafering process dubbed "Hyperion" that could help to significantly reduce the cost of building a sapphire screen cover. Apple also has its own patent on sapphire laminates that Hall believes could further reduce costs.

Still, at the moment, Hall said that producing sapphire displays comes at a cost about 10 times greater than using Corning's Gorilla Glass. That's because the Hyperion ion implantation process isn't yet ready for mass production.

While Hall said it's possible that Apple this year could produce a line of expensive high-end iPhone models with sapphire displays in limited quantities -- something the Journal suggested Apple might do -- the analyst doesn't expect that to be the case for 2014.

"Although we have channel indications that some sapphire devices will be produced, we actually lean toward Apple selling no sapphire phones this year," Hall wrote.

Touch ID


"On sapphire as a feature -- we see it as a huge phone seller. The screens are reportedly unscratchable (except by diamond) and virtually indestructible. We believe most people will want sapphire when and if it ever becomes available."

Apple is said to be considering all-sapphire front panels for the iPhone because of the material's resistance to scratches and cracks. The company already uses sapphire to protect the iPhone 5s Touch ID home button, as well as the camera lens cover for the iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c.

Detractors, such as Corning, contest that sapphire in larger quantities is prone to shattering, and also makes displays harder to view in sunlight.

Speculation about sapphire in the next iPhone has persisted thanks to a $578 million deal Apple struck with furnace maker GT Advanced Technologies. The deal allows the companies to finance and jointly operate a Phoenix facility that will produce sapphire crystal material.
post #2 of 47
Somebody looking to short the stock?
post #3 of 47

How about shorting GT Advanced and Apple stock than buy back before Apple's Sep 10 product announcement.

post #4 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Somebody looking to short the stock?

I've always wondered how these people get any of this information. Either they make it up or their company has deep pockets and is paying for a lot of inside information. Of course, if they are paying for it, then I would think the SEC would be investigating them. On the other hand, I hope Apple is dropping some information to follow who is leaking the information so they can close those holes. There's way too many leaks, rumors, and guesses floating around on supposedly secret information for Apple to not be concerned.

post #5 of 47

I've consulted my morning tea leaves and see AAPL this week shattering the sapphire ceiling, surpassing $100.

post #6 of 47
I'd wager that in general Apple considers all these rumor discussions to be beneficial, It keeps Apple in the news and the fan-base engaged and excited about what might be next. Frankly I'd be shocked if Cupertino doesn't plant some of these rumors and "leaks" themselves, tho quite anonymously.
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post #7 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I'd wager that in general Apple considers all these rumor discussions to be beneficial, It keeps Apple in the news and the fan-base engaged and excited about what might be next. Frankly I'd be shocked if Cupertino doesn't plant some of these rumors and "leaks" themselves, tho quite anonymously.
You think Apple is planting this rumor to tamper down expectations for iPhone 6? The rumors so far suggest not much to be excited about other than a bigger screen.
post #8 of 47

This is a lie.

 

Its Corning that's saying Sapphire cost 10x more than Gorilla Glass.

Corning is spewing BS for obvious reasons.

post #9 of 47
Neither JP Morgan nor the Wall Street Journal have considered the GTAT hoard of sapphire as a factor: http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/iphone-6-will-have-sapphire-glass-thanks-to-gtats-hoard
post #10 of 47

To me, Sapphire front panel glass sounds exactly like the sort of 's' upgrade that would happen for a theoretical iPhone 6s. Better construction while keeping the exact same form factor.

post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Somebody looking to short the stock?


Actually for once someone is being logical. Every other analyst is creaming his shorts over this notion that Apple is going to go all sapphire on the new display phones. But is it ready for primetime. And is it costly at a level that makes it appropriate. Apple is loathe to raise retail costs more than perhaps $30-50 if they really really must. Can they still have a decent profit and increase the internal specs and do these fancy screens. 

 

this guy is saying perhaps not. And perhaps they aren't ready to try yet. Maybe he's just saying it out of fear that all the prior rumors are false and he doesn't look like yet another dummy. Maybe he's actually trying to not 'falsely' short the stock by pushing something that is almost likely not true. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #12 of 47
Mannnn... Hope that's not true.

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #13 of 47

It is not likely that Apple inked a deal with GT Advanced last year and began production in 2013 for Apple and ramping up massive volume production with new high capacity (165kg + boule furnaces) of Sapphire shortly thereafter only to leave these parts on the shelf for about two years? GT also mentioned a new furnace technology to produce boules significantly larger than that for a special purpose.

 

I don't think Tim Cook would line the pockets of a supplier so far in advance of when that investment would yield components and revenue. I don't think Jony would drop hints this summer to the NYT about using new materials (possibly Sapphire and Liquidmetal)? I also doubt that this Sapphire deal is just for watch faces and camera lens and Touch ID covers. 

 

This latest rumor is a stock manipulation scheme to short AAPL in advance of what should be a significant stock bump after the fall new product announcements and it doesn't quite jibe with what I've been reading about GT:

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2346705-what-could-justify-apples-big-investment-in-gt-advanced-technologies

 

http://investor.gtat.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=845390

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2276673-second-apple-sapphire-plant-operations-emerges-from-gt-advanced-technologies-amended-10-q

 

http://www.macrumors.com/2014/06/16/jony-ive-new-materials/

For your sake, I hope you're right.
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For your sake, I hope you're right.
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post #14 of 47
For your sake, I hope you're right.
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For your sake, I hope you're right.
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post #15 of 47

I highly doubt Apple would ever charge more, or premium-class a device, based on the glass becoming sapphire. No one would care.

 

"Unscratchable" makes a decent bullet point, but people won't specifically pay more for it.

post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Somebody looking to short the stock?

I got in at around $9 and intend to hold for the long run ... it's been an interesting ride so far ... lol
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post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


You think Apple is planting this rumor to tamper down expectations for iPhone 6? The rumors so far suggest not much to be excited about other than a bigger screen.

 

There's only so much more you can do these days in terms of hardware to get people "excited", that don't come off as gimmicks, and that the majority of consumes can actually functionally and meaningfully use on a day to day basis. For me, a bigger screen, improved design, extra sensors, and improved processing capabilities are pretty exciting, as well as the most important things, iOS8 and the entire iCloud ecosystem. 

post #18 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffarino View Post

Neither JP Morgan nor the Wall Street Journal have considered the GTAT hoard of sapphire as a factor: http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/iphone-6-will-have-sapphire-glass-thanks-to-gtats-hoard

Now that's a rumor I like 1smile.gif
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post #19 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


I got in at around $9 and intend to hold for the long run ... it's been an interesting ride so far ... lol

 

Holy shit.. for you, there's more apt words that "interesting", since you've seen around an 8000% return. 

post #20 of 47

It's possible Apple has found a way to bond a thin sapphire layer to Gorilla Glass that won't involve excessive costs or need for huge amounts of sapphire.  That would make the display unscratchable and durable.  I don't think anyone knows for certain what Apple is going to do.  Most of these articles are pure speculation.

post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

You think Apple is planting this rumor to tamper down expectations for iPhone 6? The rumors so far suggest not much to be excited about other than a bigger screen.
I didn't say Apple planted this particular one.
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post #22 of 47
I don't know why you guys doubt me. I told you months ago that sapphire would be in the cards for the 6s -- "s" for sapphire like it was security for 5s and Siri for the 4s. No way it's in the 6.
post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

I don't know why you guys doubt me. I told you months ago that sapphire would be in the cards for the 6s -- "s" for sapphire like it was security for 5s and Siri for the 4s. No way it's in the 6.

And? Why do you think everyone should listen to you simply because you have a wish? Have you supplied any verifiable proof? Is there any cerifiably proof as of now?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

I don't know why you guys doubt me. I told you months ago that sapphire would be in the cards for the 6s -- "s" for sapphire like it was security for 5s and Siri for the 4s. No way it's in the 6.
What happens when Apple runs out of things that begin with the letter S to add to the phone. Do they no longer have S-series phones?
post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

"Unscratchable" makes a decent bullet point....

 

You're being ironic, right?  

post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Holy shit.. for you, there's more apt words that "interesting", since you've seen around an 8000% return. 

I wish LOL, no I meant GTAT at $9, my AAPL was bought at $30-$70.
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post #27 of 47
Loosely speaking, The 'S' in 3GS stood for 'speed'. 4S stood for 'Siri', 5S for 'Security'. Drum roll....

It's looking pretty likely the 6S will stand for 'Saphire'.
post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by aric2k View Post

Loosely speaking, The 'S' in 3GS stood for 'speed'. 4S stood for 'Siri', 5S for 'Security'. Drum roll....

It's looking pretty likely the 6S will stand for 'Saphire'.

 

So obvious.

 

S - for SIZE.

 

5.5 iPhone6S

post #29 of 47

If you really want to see how much production they are up to, just look at how much LN2 is showing up at their plant each day or week and look at the electric meter, if they are in full swing production they will be using lots of LN2 and electricity and the meter will be spinning like crazy.

post #30 of 47
bum post
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post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by aric2k View Post

Loosely speaking, The 'S' in 3GS stood for 'speed'. 4S stood for 'Siri', 5S for 'Security'. Drum roll....

It's looking pretty likely the 6S will stand for 'Saphire'.

Haha good one
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post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

You think Apple is planting this rumor to tamper down expectations for iPhone 6? The rumors so far suggest not much to be excited about other than a bigger screen.

 

why is a cell phone supposed to excite you? it's a common tool. i use this brand's because i like the way it works and there are good apps for it (likely owing to the way it works), not because i want it to provide excitement in my life...

 

does their mouse product also fail to excite?

post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post

why is a cell phone supposed to excite you? it's a common tool. i use this brand's because i like the way it works and there are good apps for it (likely owing to the way it works), not because i want it to provide excitement in my life...

does their mouse product also fail to excite?

I can't say an iPhone excites me much personally, but a new Mac or even a new iPad definitely does. Heck I get excited about new versions of OS X and iOS. I do know lots of people that get excited about their new iPhones too. I guess Apple tend to make products people love and if you love something you get excited about it. And yes, I was excited to get a magic mouse when they came out.

I'm also VERY excited to see AAPL at +$99 too!
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post #34 of 47

As long as Apple have enough sapphire to bring Touch ID to a new iPad, I’ll be happy.

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post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

As long as Apple have enough sapphire to bring Touch ID to a new iPad, I’ll be happy.

I can't imagine a scenario where that doesn't happen.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

This is a lie.

 

Its Corning that's saying Sapphire cost 10x more than Gorilla Glass.

Corning is spewing BS for obvious reasons.

Do you have proof, links, documents, secret communique, you do realize the Apple still uses Corning don't you, why are you so ready to throw them under the bus so soon, especially before a replacement product has even been introduced.

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post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Do you have proof, links, documents, secret communique, you do realize the Apple still uses Corning don't you, why are you so ready to throw them under the bus so soon, especially before a replacement product has even been introduced.

1) Weren't you the one that was adamant Apple was using regular glass in their iDevices and definitely not using the alkali-aluminosilicate sheet toughened glass from Corning.

2) Corning SVP Tony Tripeny stated, "We see a lot of disadvantages of Sapphire versus Gorilla Glass. It’s about 10 times more expensive. It’s about 1.6 times heavier. It’s environmentally unfriendly. It takes about 100 times more energy to generate a Sapphire crystal than it does glass. It transmits less light which…means either dimmer devices or shorter battery life. It continues to break. I think while it’s a scratch resistant product it still breaks and our testing says that Gorilla Glass [can take] about 2.5 times more pressure that it can take."

Lots of evidence of them pooh-poohing sapphire, including power costs to manufacture it.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) Weren't you the one that was adamant Apple was using regular glass in their iDevices and definitely not using the alkali-aluminosilicate sheet toughened glass from Corning.

2) Corning SVP Tony Tripeny stated, "We see a lot of disadvantages of Sapphire versus Gorilla Glass. It’s about 10 times more expensive. It’s about 1.6 times heavier. It’s environmentally unfriendly. It takes about 100 times more energy to generate a Sapphire crystal than it does glass. It transmits less light which…means either dimmer devices or shorter battery life. It continues to break. I think while it’s a scratch resistant product it still breaks and our testing says that Gorilla Glass [can take] about 2.5 times more pressure that it can take."
Lots of evidence of them pooh-poohing sapphire, including power costs to manufacture it.

Yeppers, sure was, that was me, all the way, but I never said they didn't use it, just that it was pretty much worthless if you dropped an iPhone. It turned out the problem with iPhones cracking is do to the metal frame, it doesn't absorb shock nearly as well as a polycarbonate housing. The guy at the iKlinic in Luzern showed my daughter and I a really neat cutaway of the iPhone, walked us through it, said if Apple wants to keep this design they really need to start wrapping the inner part of the metal frame with rubber but that will make the phone thicker and add costs, so it probably won't happen. He then recommended a really good case from Otterbox which we bought from the Apple store in Zurich, I bought my daughter one for her iPhone and one for each of the iPads, even got one for my Kindle HDX but that was a special order directly from their online shop, a little on the expensive side but after you replaced 3 iPhone screens, it's worth it. Great cases, I highly recommend them, http://www.otterbox.com/. It's been 6 months with multiple drops, no problems, best investment ever.

 

Anymore questions there sparky? :p 


Edited by Relic - 8/19/14 at 6:01pm
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post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Weren't you the one that was adamant Apple was using regular glass in their iDevices and definitely not using the alkali-aluminosilicate sheet toughened glass from Corning.


2) Corning SVP Tony Tripeny stated, "We see a lot of disadvantages of Sapphire versus Gorilla Glass. It’s about 10 times more expensive. It’s about 1.6 times heavier. It’s environmentally unfriendly. It takes about 100 times more energy to generate a Sapphire crystal than it does glass. It transmits less light which…means either dimmer devices or shorter battery life. It continues to break. I think while it’s a scratch resistant product it still breaks and our testing says that Gorilla Glass [can take] about 2.5 times more pressure that it can take."

Lots of evidence of them pooh-poohing sapphire, including power costs to manufacture it.
Yeppers, sure was, that was me, all the way, but I never said they didn't use it, just that it was pretty much worthless if you dropped an iPhone. It turned out the problem with iPhones cracking is do to the metal frame, it doesn't absorb shock nearly as well as a polycarbonate housing. The guy at the iKlinic in Luzern showed my daughter and I a really neat cutaway of the iPhone, walked us through it, said if Apple wants to keep this design they really need to start wrapping the inner part of the metal frame with rubber but that will make the phone thicker and add costs, so it probably won't happen. He then recommended a really good case from Otterbox which we bought from the Apple store in Zurich, I bought my daughter one for her iPhone and one for each of the iPads, even got one for my Kindle HDX but that was a special order directly from their online shop, a little on the expensive side but after you replaced 3 iPhone screens, it's worth it. Great cases, I highly recommend them, http://www.otterbox.com/. It's been 6 months with multiple drops, no problems, best investment ever.

Anymore questions there sparky? 1tongue.gif  

Glad to hear you've found some good Otterbox cases, Relic. Your family can now drop their iPhones to their hearts' content! 😉

I once cycled through Lucerne on my way to Venice. Went over the Gotthard Pass.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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- African proverb
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post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Yeppers, sure was, that was me, all the way, but I never said they didn't use it, just that it was pretty much worthless if you dropped an iPhone.

You clearly stated they didn't use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic 
What do you think the chances are Apple will start using Gorilla glass again instead of the unprotected glass they're currently using. My daughter has already gone threw 3 repair to replace the glass in hers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic 
Why is what I said fabricated or untrue, does the current iPhone 4 use Gorilla Glass, no, is the phone's screen easy to crack, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic 
I did, just the original iPhone used it, I think Apple uses glass from http://www.lenstech.com/ now . I'm not starting a fight, I'm just asking if anyone has heard if the new iPhone will include it now, that's it.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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