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While 91% of Apple users run iOS 7, five different versions of Android hold 10%+ share

post #1 of 183
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The latest mobile operating system statistics show that Google's Android is more fragmented than ever, with three different versions of the platform representing two-thirds of all devices, while Apple's latest version of iOS runs on 91 percent of iPhones and iPads.




The tale of two very different platforms is told by the latest data from OpenSignal, which has tracked nearly 19,000 total distinct Android devices this year, up from just under 12,000 last year. Samsung remains the dominant maker of Android devices, with a 43 percent share, while the most popular Android hardware is its Galaxy S III smartphone.

The plethora of device makers, many of which with their own custom skins and modifications to Android, only contribute to the fragmentation issue. And the number of distinct devices on the market tracked by OpenSignal has exploded from just 4,000 in its first report issued in 2012.

When Android fragmentation is measured purely among Google's major releases, the leading installation is 4.1 "Jelly Bean," found on 26.5 percent of devices. Next is the most recent version of Android, 4.4 "Kit Kat," with a 20.9 percent share.

In total there are five different versions of Android with more than 10 percent of the market. The remaining three are 4.2 "Jelly Bean" (19.8 percent), 2.3.3-2.3.7 "Gingerbread" (13.6 percent), and 4.0.3-4.0.4 "Ice Cream Sandwich" (10.6 percent).

Meanwhile, only one version of Apple's iOS platform holds more than 10 percent share, and it's not even close: iOS 7 is at 91 percent, while iOS 6 holds just 8 percent. Earlier versions of iOS account for only 1 percent of installations.

Those figures align with Apple's own App Store data detailed to developers on its website. The figures were most recently updated for a 7-day period ending Aug. 10, 2014.




The OpenSignal data breaks down mobile operating system installations based on new application programming interfaces made available to developers, referring to it as "API fragmentation."

The data tracks the market share of the leading API level at any time, which peaked around 60 percent in mid-2012. Since then, the market share of the leading API level has steadily declined, and is now at an all-time low

The data is also broken down for screen size fragmentation, another area where Apple has a key advantage over Android for developer simplicity. Apple's iOS platform has been limited to four different physical screen sizes, thanks to Apple's use of pixel-doubling when upgrading to Retina displays. On Android, though, there are countless different screen sizes, which OpenSignal said is "hugely challenging" for developers trying to create applications that can work well on a range of devices.

For its latest report, OpenSignal surveyed 682,000 total devices running its app. The sample size was kept the same as its fragmentation reports from 2013 and 2012 for a fairer comparison.
post #2 of 183
IOS 7, 91% of IOS users. Android 4, 85.7% of Android users. Of course, that doesn't have the click bait ring to it does it?

-kpluck

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post #3 of 183

Don't we already know this? Why a 50,000th article on how segmented Android is? 

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post #4 of 183
What a poor headline. A better headline would be:
"While 91% of Apple users run iOS 7, no version of Android holds greater then a 21% share."
post #5 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

IOS 7, 91% of IOS users. Android 4, 85.7% of Android users. Of course, that doesn't have the click bait ring to it does it?

-kpluck

 

Eh. It looks the same until you try to target specifics of those versions for development, which contain a vast array of differences across the versions presented.  For example, the 4.4 version would be considered a major update from the 4.3 version, a first digit increase on an iOS release schedule and then we have updates like 4.0->4.1/4.2 which were considered incremental but still introduced new underlying frameworks which some apps need to depend on. 

 

This is one of the things I hate about the Android release schedule in comparison to iOS - it's a lot less cut and dry which makes the fragmentation issue more complicated for someone who isn't familiar with the ecosystem (e.g., new devs and even users who may want to care)

post #6 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post

Eh. It looks the same until you try to target specifics of those versions for development, which contain a vast array of differences across the versions presented.  For example, the 4.4 version would be considered a major update from the 4.3 version, a first digit increase on an iOS release schedule and then we have updates like 4.0->4.1/4.2 which were considered incremental but still introduced new underlying frameworks which some apps need to depend on. 


This is one of the things I hate about the Android release schedule in comparison to iOS - it's a lot less cut and dry which makes the fragmentation issue more complicated for someone who isn't familiar with the 
ecosystem (e.g., new 
devs and even users who may want to care)

It's not all that hard for developers. It's more of a mythical talking point anymore.
http://rustyshelf.org/2014/07/08/the-android-screen-fragmentation-myth/
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2014-android-fragmentation-no-longer-190026012.html
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post #7 of 183

Oh, speaking of which.

 

Fragmentation.

post #8 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


It's not all that hard for developers. It's more of a mythical talking point anymore.
http://rustyshelf.org/2014/07/08/the-android-screen-fragmentation-myth/
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2014-android-fragmentation-no-longer-190026012.html

 

These articles point out some good things I agree with - Screen sizes are what they address mostly, it's not that hard, right. However, across densities and and sizes - it's more to think about for someone who isn't familiar requiring more time to learn. - Google is containing their Play Services to update themselves independently of the OS - which is good for Google and to me to some degree

 

However, these articles don't really address my problems which is the vast differences of API's available - and in some cases the flat out failure of manufacturers to correctly support their hardware. I'm not trying to claim to be the majority, but it is hard to target those features offered by and across Android versions for an incoming devs who are unfamiliar, myself included after a nice chunk of time dedicated to learning the OS. 

 

It isn't shit, no. 

But it's a pain in the ass that is discouraging.

post #9 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

IOS 7, 91% of IOS users. Android 4, 85.7% of Android users. Of course, that doesn't have the click bait ring to it does it?

-kpluck

Yes, but no. Version number has nothing to do with it. iOS 7 came out last year and it's minor versions were to correct issues, security fixes, performance. Otherwise the OS was the same.

 

Android has been stuck on 4.x for a while now. Ice Cream Sandwich, the first 4.x release was unveiled on October 19, 2011, about the same time that Apple released iOS 4.0.  If you look at Jelly Bean, that has been in development now for 2 years as it was unveiled in June 2012.  While it's named the same, it's still an old version of the operating system.  The latest and greatest Android flavor, KitKat is only installed on about 20% of devices.

OK, so.... Apple has 91% of it's devices running the LATEST version.  Android has 20% running the LATEST version.

Those are the facts presented in the story.  Apple would have nearly 100% OS penetration if the original iPad and older iPhones could be updated to the latest, but the hardware doesn't support it.

post #10 of 183

The miserable operating system known as Android is only getting worse and worse.

 

Only around a fifth of Android users are on the latest version. In 2013, about a third of Android users were on the latest version. It's actually going down!

 

That figure is actually going down as more and more poor people are flocking to Android as Android continues to be adopted by certain users in very poor countries, also known as "developing" countries, or basically the third world, as I prefer to call it. And for those who are offended my by factual statement, I will of course provide proof for these ignorant people.

 

OpenSignal’s data indicates that over a third (35 percent) of Android devices in countries with GDP/capita of greater than $20,000 are on the latest version of Android vs just 12 percent in less economically developed countries.

 

Android fragmentation or diversity as some like to call it, is just absolutely out of control and totally disgusting!

 

Who says that diversity is a good thing? Well, Apple does for starters, but I don't think that this is what they have in mind when Apple speaks of diversity.

 

Here is proof that diversity is a terrible thing.

 

This chart is just unbelievable!

 

 

18,796 unique Android devices! Holy f-ucking crap! What a goddam mess!

 

http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/21/opensignal-2014-android-ecosystem-report/

post #11 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

IOS 7, 91% of IOS users. Android 4, 85.7% of Android users. Of course, that doesn't have the click bait ring to it does it?

Look at the API levels to make an apt comparison of version numbers.

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post #12 of 183
From a "developer" point of view today android fragmentation is extremely low. It was a problem ith GingerBread (2.3.x), but API difference between all 4.x versions are negligible. Basically all the functions/services/effects are available across the 4.x releases. It means you can target about 85% of Android devices with a single binary. It could be a problem again with next release (Android-L) that should contain an under-the-hood overhaul of the UI framework, with several incompatibilities.

From a "user" point of view, fragmentation is very low for system apps (messages, mail, browser, search,...), which are updated through Play Store whichever the version of the OS. But the big problem is that system is not updated, with all the relevant security issues.
post #13 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradipao View Post

From a "developer" point of view today android fragmentation is extremely low. 

 

Not according to this article:

 

Increasing device diversity/fragmentation means developers choosing to target the top 10 Android devices are addressing a smaller proportion of overall users (although the overall size of the Android pie is growing). OpenSignal notes that last year the ten most popular Android devices in the market represented about a fifth (21 percent) of the devices out there, vs this year’s top ten representing 15 percent.

post #14 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

IOS 7, 91% of IOS users. Android 4, 85.7% of Android users. Of course, that doesn't have the click bait ring to it does it?

-kpluck

 

You are wrong

 

91% of iOS users are using an OS less than 12 months old

 

24% of Android users are using an OS that has not been updated for security for over 4 years!

51% of Android users are using an OS that has not been updated for security for over 2 years!

81% of Android users are using an OS that has not been updated for security for over 18 months!

 

Its ridiculous that 81% of Android users are using an OS that has not been updated and are wide open to new cyber attacks.

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post #15 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradipao View Post

From a "developer" point of view today android fragmentation is extremely low. It was a problem ith GingerBread (2.3.x), but API difference between all 4.x versions are negligible. Basically all the functions/services/effects are available across the 4.x releases. It means you can target about 85% of Android devices with a single binary. It could be a problem again with next release (Android-L) that should contain an under-the-hood overhaul of the UI framework, with several incompatibilities.

From a "user" point of view, fragmentation is very low for system apps (messages, mail, browser, search,...), which are updated through Play Store whichever the version of the OS. But the big problem is that system is not updated, with all the relevant security issues.

 

BINGO.

 

Security is the key.

 

81% of Android users are using an OS that has not been updated for 18 months to 4 years.

If a new cyber threat is released than all these users are wide open for attack.

 

This is as foolish as running Windows1998 today.

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post #16 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

18,796 unique Android devices! Holy f-ucking crap! What a goddam mess!

Yes, I agree. But we have to admit that OS is a fantastic in being able to handle such a gargantuan mess of unique devices. 1wink.gif
post #17 of 183
I thought most of Google's updates were going through the play store? Aren't their apps updated independent from major OS releases?
post #18 of 183
@ kpluck

For version 4, ice cream sandwich was released in Dec 2012 and kit kat 2 months ago. That is 2.5 years total. Android's versions are very different but they do not increase version numbers the same way Apple does for iOS. iOS is generally updated yearly.
So your comment is somewhat valid but not really comparing Apples to Apples.

The general point is that Apple iOS is easily upgradable so multiple generations of phones are readily updated to the new OS. For Android it appears phones either cannot be upgraded or the users are not aware how to do this.

Before I had my first iPhone I used a symbian phone. One day it stopped working because the software was too outdated to work on the network. I had to take it in to the carrier shop for them to update it. There was no notification to update the system on the phone itself. It is limey that android phones are similarly set up the same way or perhaps the phones are not able to upgrade.

So the moral is that iPhones have longer lives than android phones and can be upgrade with ease. Clearly that is not true for android units.
post #19 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradipao View Post

From a "developer" point of view today android fragmentation is extremely low. It was a problem ith GingerBread (2.3.x), but API difference between all 4.x versions are negligible. Basically all the functions/services/effects are available across the 4.x releases. It means you can target about 85% of Android devices with a single binary. It could be a problem again with next release (Android-L) that should contain an under-the-hood overhaul of the UI framework, with several incompatibilities.

Which is another way of saying these newer APIs can't be used without a lot of retooling.
Edited by SolipsismX - 8/22/14 at 8:57am

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post #20 of 183
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Originally Posted by DogGone View Post

So the moral is that iPhones have longer lives than android phones and can be upgrade with ease. Clearly that is not true for android units.

 

That is true. Many Android phones are basically obsolete as soon as people buy them and they are walking out of the store with them. Certain Android phones that were promised updates by the manufacturers never, ever received them. They were basically abandoned by the manufacturers, as they basically said "screw you!" to the uninformed users and poor bastards who bought those phones.

 

If we are to convert phone life into human life, then let's say that an average iOS device lives to about 80. In Android land, the average life span is probably around 40. Who wants to die when they're 40 years old? Android users apparently don't mind. Some don't even make it into their teens, and in the worst cases, they die a quick crib death.

post #21 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

That is true. Many Android phones are basically obsolete as soon as people buy them and they are walking out of the store with them. Certain Android phones that were promised updates by the manufacturers never, ever received them. They were basically abandoned by the manufacturers, as they basically said "screw you!" to the uninformed users and poor bastards who bought those phones.

 

If we are to convert phone life into human life, then let's say that an average iOS device lives to about 80. In Android land, the average life span is probably around 40. Who wants to die when they're 40 years old? Android users apparently don't mind. Some don't even make it into their teens, and in the worst cases, they die a quick crib death.

 

My Android was sent to a life time jail sentence (my drawer) when it was 25 then.

So sad.

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post #22 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogGone View Post

@ kpluck

For version 4, ice cream sandwich was released in Dec 2012 and kit kat 2 months ago. That is 2.5 years total. Android's versions are very different but they do not increase version numbers the same way Apple does for iOS. iOS is generally updated yearly.
So your comment is somewhat valid but not really comparing Apples to Apples.

The general point is that Apple iOS is easily upgradable so multiple generations of phones are readily updated to the new OS. For Android it appears phones either cannot be upgraded or the users are not aware how to do this.

Before I had my first iPhone I used a symbian phone. One day it stopped working because the software was too outdated to work on the network. I had to take it in to the carrier shop for them to update it. There was no notification to update the system on the phone itself. It is limey that android phones are similarly set up the same way or perhaps the phones are not able to upgrade.

So the moral is that iPhones have longer lives than android phones and can be upgrade with ease. Clearly that is not true for android units.

 

And the carriers and manufacters love this.

 

They know people's Android phones will be useless after 2 years and will be eager to buy a new Android phone and sign another 2 year contract.

 

In the long run Android phones cost more than Apple phones.

 

I compare this to buy a nice leather sofa for $1500.

Then another guy goes to a rent to own store to rent a POS sofa for $45 a month.

An idiot might think the $45 month situation is saving him money.

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post #23 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradipao View Post

From a "developer" point of view today android fragmentation is extremely low. It was a problem ith GingerBread (2.3.x), but API difference between all 4.x versions are negligible. Basically all the functions/services/effects are available across the 4.x releases. It means you can target about 85% of Android devices with a single binary. It could be a problem again with next release (Android-L) that should contain an under-the-hood overhaul of the UI framework, with several incompatibilities.

From a "user" point of view, fragmentation is very low for system apps (messages, mail, browser, search,...), which are updated through Play Store whichever the version of the OS. But the big problem is that system is not updated, with all the relevant security issues.


I disagree since, like I said before, Google muddied the waters with their releases - this was the hardest thing for me to grasp. 

 

It is very easy to target 85% of the Android devices with a relatively simple binary, but as soon as you dive into more complex natures, I've seen shit get crazy frustrating. Want to target a new-ish API? Good luck because even with something as simple as a new transition API, you either have to write alternate code to support older editions, find a way around it, or drop it entirely (which means you can't depend on it or you can cut your target market to 40%, 30%, 20% by limiting by support as needed). What about API changes? Those are fun because you have to target multiple versions of a single API call - and it's happened to me. FML. It's annoying. It sucks. It takes a lot of effort. It's not impossible, and in some cases it can be easy, but as I've said before, it's discouraging. It makes me resent wanting to use new things, not want to try advances to make the platform more enjoyable. It's a hinderance. 

 

This, unfortunately, impacts the user who gets an inconsistent and subpar experience. Google can update it's apps - which is nice for users and APIs that peddle back to those apps - but the negativity of the developers perception reaches far beyond them and Google's own apps, I believe.

post #24 of 183

Like species propagation, it's good to have a varied gene pool to facilitate metamorphic process. (Hold on, just had a thought, that trying to draw an analog between software versions and evolution of species does not work. Valiant try, though, don't you think?) 

post #25 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

BINGO.

Security is the key.

81% of Android users are using an OS that has not been updated for 18 months to 4 years.
If a new cyber threat is released than all these users are wide open for attack.

Wrong sir.
http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2014/06/google-play-services-delivers-security.html

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/applications/updated-google-play-services-5-0-rolls-out-to-nearly-every-android-device-1255989
As of v5 of Google Play Services "the updates services also adds a dynamic security provider allowing developers to rapidly deliver security patches. A necessity in today's world when it seems like some other app has been breached every week."

...and with zero dependence on OEM's or carriers for approval.

FWIW Google reports that 93% of Google Android devices are on version 5.
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/22/14 at 8:57am
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post #26 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

I compare this to buy a nice leather sofa for $1500.

Then another guy goes to a rent to own store to rent a POS sofa for $45 a month.

An idiot might think the $45 month situation is saving him money.

 

I agree. That's a reason why many poor people continue to remain poor in my opinion. They have terrible financial skills.

 

Some cheap people buy a product that they believe is cheap and they believe that they're getting a great deal, but in the long run, it actually ends up costing them more money than the person who bought the higher quality and more expensive product to begin with.

post #27 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post
 

Yes, but no. Version number has nothing to do with it. iOS 7 came out last year and it's minor versions were to correct issues, security fixes, performance. Otherwise the OS was the same.

 

Android has been stuck on 4.x for a while now. Ice Cream Sandwich, the first 4.x release was unveiled on October 19, 2011, about the same time that Apple released iOS 4.0.  If you look at Jelly Bean, that has been in development now for 2 years as it was unveiled in June 2012.  While it's named the same, it's still an old version of the operating system.  The latest and greatest Android flavor, KitKat is only installed on about 20% of devices.

OK, so.... Apple has 91% of it's devices running the LATEST version.  Android has 20% running the LATEST version.

Those are the facts presented in the story.  Apple would have nearly 100% OS penetration if the original iPad and older iPhones could be updated to the latest, but the hardware doesn't support it.

 

Another way of seeing this is that the point versions of Android 4 are either minor updates and therefore some 85% of Android installs are running the latest major version, or that each of the point versions of Android 4 are major new versions, in which case there is the fragmentation suggested by this article and many others.  So take your pick, 85%+ of Android devices are running the latest major version, but that version is from 2011, or there's tremendous fragmentation.  My question to the Fandroids is, which is it?  Pick your poison, but don't imagine you'll fool us by trying to have it both ways.

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post #28 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I thought most of Google's updates were going through the play store? Aren't their apps updated independent from major OS releases?

 

In which case you have fragmentation because some devices (Amazon, Chinese vendors) don't connect to Google Play, and others aren't updated even though they conceivably could be.  Which is just another dimension of fragmentation introduced in an effort to roll out security updates across a fragmented core OS that cannot be updated on many devices for either device compatibility reasons or device vendor negligence (they don;t work to offer the updates, preferring their customers to be forced to buy a new handset or tablet).  

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post #29 of 183

FWIW, I'm a developer and Android user, I choose to sidestep fragmentation issues by using Nexus phones. No fragmentation issues for me. Everything works, and it works well. $350 purchase, $30/month unlimited data month-to-month with T-Mobile, and I'm doing fine.

 

The nice thing about iOS is that any limited-intelligence users are going to be brought along with the crowd (for the most part), and kept current. The same group buying Android devices end up running a provider-mangled version of Gingerbread for an entire phone contract because they go for the cheap phones.

 

I think you have to be fairly intentional and thoughtful to have a high-end experience with Android. Occasionally, one of my non-tech friends will ask me if they should switch from iOS to Android, and I tell them "no." Most of my high-tech friends don't need to ask, and they're split pretty evenly between iOS/Android. We'll see if Google is able to bring more phones into the Google Android experience like Nexus over the next couple of years, but I don't see them overcoming the marketing from the cheaper/compromised brands.

post #30 of 183
Wow, that white line on the last graph is brutal. This (and lack of app spending on Android) is why I'm finishing up my game for iOS and then will start throwing my spare time (darned day job!) right at my next game idea%u2014instead of throwing that time toward porting--or answering support requests!--for Android. I'd like to dabble in Android development some time, but the nature of that market has to change first. I could be waiting a while...
post #31 of 183
iOS development is certainly easier the Android development but Android fragment isn't the apocalyptic problem that some suggest.

Developers have successfully managed to cater for different hardware and OS setups on desktop for a very long time. Android is no different.
post #32 of 183
I think ALL attempts to compare a Product against a Platform are fundamentally flawed. The fragmentation argument is just the inverse of the market share argument. Comparing the market share of a single product or product line like the iPhone against all products that are built on Android doesn't make sense. Same goes for iOS versus Android. Commercially iOS is only used by one vendor so it's really just a product and not a platform.

At the end of the day it's every company competing against every other company for profits. Do you think all those vendors who are using Android in their profit-less products are basking in the glory of being on the market share leading platform? What does that buy them when they have nothing to show for their efforts? Likewise do you think Apple is crying in their beer because they can't figure out how to manage their massive profits even though they have such a small market share versus the competing platform?

Who cares if Android is or isn't fragmented? What does this have anything at all to do with paying customers choosing an Apple iPhone over a Samsung Galaxy phone? It's all just chaff meant to distract you from seeing that this is a product level battle and not a platform leave battle. If Apple was using Android in their products and was still able to deliver the same quality of service, design excellence, security, and ecosystem value that they are delivering with iOS their products would be no less compelling. It really comes down to Apple products being better, not just being different.
post #33 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Wrong sir.
http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2014/06/google-play-services-delivers-security.html

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/applications/updated-google-play-services-5-0-rolls-out-to-nearly-every-android-device-1255989
As of v5 of Google Play Services "the updates services also adds a dynamic security provider allowing developers to rapidly deliver security patches. A necessity in today's world when it seems like some other app has been breached every week."

...and with zero dependence on OEM's or carriers for approval.

FWIW Google reports that 93% of Google Android devices are on version 5.

No, he was right. Until the latest version of Google Play, security updates required a patch to be released which then went to OEMs and then out to your phone. This was time consuming. Now Google has updated Google Play Services to allow more of the OS to be updated directly.

Which also makes you a liar. You previously stated very clearly that Google Play Services ensures security updates are delivered to Android devices when in fact only high-level items would get updates. I argued this against you more than once and you continued to lie and state GPS updates Android. Just like you claimed that Verify Apps stops malware when it continues to miss things.
post #34 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

No, he was right. Until the latest version of Google Play, security updates required a patch to be released which then went to OEMs and then out to your phone. This was time consuming. Now Google has updated Google Play Services to allow more of the OS to be updated directly.

Which also makes you a liar. You previously stated very clearly that Google Play Services ensures security updates are delivered to Android devices when in fact only high-level items would get updates. I argued this against you more than once and you continued to lie and state GPS updates Android. Just like you claimed that Verify Apps stops malware when it continues to miss things.

Let him lie.

It may just be all he has left in life.

(>_<)
Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast.
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post #35 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

No, he was right. Until the latest version of Google Play, security updates required a patch to be released which then went to OEMs and then out to your phone. This was time consuming. Now Google has updated Google Play Services to allow more of the OS to be updated directly.

Which also makes you a liar. You previously stated very clearly that Google Play Services ensures security updates are delivered to Android devices when in fact only high-level items would get updates. I argued this against you more than once and you continued to lie and state GPS updates Android. Just like you claimed that Verify Apps stops malware when it continues to miss things.

I'm not even going to bother asking you again for any citations of these supposed claims I made as you always duck and hide afterwards. And you too sir are incorrect. Google Play Services currently installed on 93% of active Google Android devices does deliver security updates. Going back to some old GPS version to make yourself appear correct with what you want folks to believe today is kinda dishonest isn't it?

And yes Verify Apps stops malware which you already knew. That it doesn't immediately block every piece of previously unknown malware ( it may take a couple weeks in some instances) does not make that statement untrue anymore than "seat-belts save lives" means no lives are ever lost.

Try being a little less deceptive/dishonest. You'll be trusted more.

To be completely clear I am not claiming these efforts from Google have resulted in a 100% secure OS. They are huge improvements over years past but like with any OS the provider needs to constantly be on guard. That's why nearly every update from Apple, MS, Google etc includes security fixes, proof that no OS today is really completely secure from those that want what we have for themselves.
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/22/14 at 11:36am
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #36 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Which is another way of saying these newer APIs can't be used without a lot of retooling.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post

I think ALL attempts to compare a Product against a Platform are fundamentally flawed. The fragmentation argument is just the inverse of the market share argument. Comparing the market share of a single product or product line like the iPhone against all products that are built on Android doesn't make sense. Same goes for iOS versus Android. Commercially iOS is only used by one vendor so it's really just a product and not a platform.

At the end of the day it's every company competing against every other company for profits. Do you think all those vendors who are using Android in their profit-less products are basking in the glory of being on the market share leading platform? What does that buy them when they have nothing to show for their efforts? Likewise do you think Apple is crying in their beer because they can't figure out how to manage their massive profits even though they have such a small market share versus the competing platform?

Who cares if Android is or isn't fragmented? What does this have anything at all to do with paying customers choosing an Apple iPhone over a Samsung Galaxy phone? It's all just chaff meant to distract you from seeing that this is a product level battle and not a platform leave battle. If Apple was using Android in their products and was still able to deliver the same quality of service, design excellence, security, and ecosystem value that they are delivering with iOS their products would be no less compelling. It really comes down to Apple products being better, not just being different.

 

Well... the fragmentation issue does not entirely go away from a consumer's perspective just because that consumer has selected only one Android vendor.  Samsung is subject to the reality that Android is not being developed and optimized only for their products.  It's being developed with an express goal of owning the most market share, and as such is necessarily not optimized for any specific segment of the market, such as the enterprise market where built-in security, for example, is highly valued.  Few could make a reasonable argument that Google's patch-via-Google-Play approach to security updates is ideal; it's pragmatic given the security situation created by the OS fragmentation situation Google has found itself faced with, but it's not ideal.  Apple has the better approach, for all phones running iOS; it's incidental to the argument that all those phones happen to come from a single company.

I don't care about what the ignorant masses perceive as truth. I'm concerned with the facts on the ground.
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I don't care about what the ignorant masses perceive as truth. I'm concerned with the facts on the ground.
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post #37 of 183
Many devices from multiple manufacturers run different versions of software compared a single manufacturer? Wow. Stop the presses. Can already tell what kind of news day this is going to be.
post #38 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post

Who cares if Android is or isn't fragmented? What does this have anything at all to do with paying customers choosing an Apple iPhone over a Samsung Galaxy phone? It's all just chaff meant to distract you from seeing that this is a product level battle and not a platform leave battle. If Apple was using Android in their products and was still able to deliver the same quality of service, design excellence, security, and ecosystem value that they are delivering with iOS their products would be no less compelling. It really comes down to Apple products being better, not just being different.

 

Ok, wait a second there. There is a very specific reason why this becomes relevant. The market share argument is invalid because Apple give a flying f&#@ about market share. Their business model doesn't depend on market share, and that is why that argument is invalid. Now, the "inverse" as you call it being fragmentation *IS* important, that being to developers and customers. I will prove this with a very specific argument that any developer can understand: The Browser Wars of the mid-2000s.

 

For a long time you had two major players in the Browser Wars: Internet Explorer and Netscape/Mozilla. Mozilla had the courage to break off their browser to become Firefox, and part of that was that it was going to be standards-based. This was all well and good, but it was hell on developers. Developers had to do hacks and quirks, css-differing rules, and server-side conditionals to try to get the one page they were working on to work in both environments. It became so difficult that many decided to just focus on either Internet Explorer or Firefox, and it hurt the web for years.

 

It is this cautionary tale that is happening to Android right now. Since carriers can lock the users into a particular version, you have API fragmentation. The fragmentation makes it incredibly difficult for developers to try to target anyone in the Android universe. Also, since some manufacturers can create a version of Android with their own specific things embedded into it, that just adds to the noise. All of those concerns are what make Android an inferior development platform, even though Google says that it is "Open". iOS may be a closed eco-system, but it is consistent, and it makes sure that you can be kept up to date easily; making the lives of developers that much easier.

-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Fanatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027

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-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Fanatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027

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post #39 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Wrong sir.
http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2014/06/google-play-services-delivers-security.html

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/software/applications/updated-google-play-services-5-0-rolls-out-to-nearly-every-android-device-1255989
As of v5 of Google Play Services "the updates services also adds a dynamic security provider allowing developers to rapidly deliver security patches. A necessity in today's world when it seems like some other app has been breached every week."

...and with zero dependence on OEM's or carriers for approval.

FWIW Google reports that 93% of Google Android devices are on version 5.

 

Same Google that allowed Spyware/Adware/Hackware apps to stay on their Playstore for Months?

Apple Purchases last 12 months - iPhone 5S (two), iPhone 6, iPhone 6+ (two), iPadAir, iPadAir2, iPadMini2, AppleTV (two), MacMini, Airport Extreme, iPod Classic.
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Apple Purchases last 12 months - iPhone 5S (two), iPhone 6, iPhone 6+ (two), iPadAir, iPadAir2, iPadMini2, AppleTV (two), MacMini, Airport Extreme, iPod Classic.
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post #40 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Google Plays Services currently installed on 93% of active Google Android devices...

Now I don't know what to make of it all. Are you saying that the 'Google Plays Services' are installed on 93% of HW developed/designed/manufactured by Google? So not on, say, Samsung devices? Though Samsung has a way with putting their name on other brands as well, but this is just completely OT:

http://www.samsung.com/us/news/newsRead.do?news_seq=2828



edit: replaced pic with a better one
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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  • While 91% of Apple users run iOS 7, five different versions of Android hold 10%+ share
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