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While 91% of Apple users run iOS 7, five different versions of Android hold 10%+ share - Page 3

post #81 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

87.8% of all statistics are made up!
That seems a bit low, I think you're trying to manipulate the stock price of statistics.

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post #82 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misa View Post

Amateur developers don't even know where to begin with Android. You download all this cruft from all over the internet, including a pile of obsolete software (JDK 6 when JDK 7 is current.) iOS, you just download XCode, nothing else.

 

You just go to developer.android.com and download the Eclipse ADT package with has the SDK built in.  Yes, you may have to install JDK 6.0 and Apache Ant but the links are right on the developer page so this is not like some huge issue.

 

Or you can download and install the Android Studio bundle which should also have everything but the JDK which can be JDK 6+. 

post #83 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
 

 

You just go to developer.android.com and download the Eclipse ADT package with has the SDK built in.  Yes, you may have to install JDK 6.0 and Apache Ant but the links are right on the developer page so this is not like some huge issue.

 

Or you can download and install the Android Studio bundle which should also have everything but the JDK which can be JDK 6+. 

 

- Screen display sizes & densities aren't a deal breaker - but it's time consuming and requires research and knowledge of as much of the ecosystem as possible. 

 

- API inconsistencies and improvements across versions you don't have access to isn't a deal breaker (for others...) - but then you have to find which APIs can go where, to what capacity, and how, for at least 3-4 different versions of Android. 

 

- Spotty hardware support (both on-running and even initially out of the box, depending on the device)  isn't a deal breaker - but it's a pain to have to figure out what exactly the producers of the product did and how to achieve "normal" results in scenarios like this (I'm sure you've seen the accelerometer hardware... issue [more of neglect by device makers] within Android devices... ugh). 

 


On it's own, having to run through a process of collecting components and configuring development tools and environments may not seem like a big issue. But stack 4-5 other "not big issues" on top and you've got a lot of time lost. It just seems like it's never just "a few caveats". 

 


This is really where Android starts to look bad to me.

 

Edit: These are just some of the more common and public knowledge issues I've encountered within Android - diving deeper there are so many more time sinks. 

post #84 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post
 

- Screen display sizes & densities aren't a deal breaker - but it's time consuming and requires research and knowledge of as much of the ecosystem as possible. 

 

- API inconsistencies and improvements across versions you don't have access to isn't a deal breaker (for others...) - but then you have to find which APIs can go where, to what capacity, and how, for at least 3-4 different versions of Android. 

 

- Spotty hardware support (both on-running and even initially out of the box, depending on the device)  isn't a deal breaker - but it's a pain to have to figure out what exactly the producers of the product did and how to achieve "normal" results in scenarios like this (I'm sure you've seen the accelerometer hardware... issue [more of neglect by device makers] within Android devices... ugh). 

 

On it's own, having to run through a process of collecting components and configuring development tools and environments may not seem like a big issue. But stack 4-5 other "not big issues" on top and you've got a lot of time lost. It just seems like it's never just "a few caveats". 

 

This is really where Android starts to look bad to me.

 

Edit: These are just some of the more common and public knowledge issues I've encountered within Android - diving deeper there are so many more time sinks. 

 

Folks don't get how much easier Android is to deal with vs Symbian.  Yes, iOS is smoother still but Android is by no means overly difficult for a developer.

 

App exposure and monetization is more of an issue.  Pretty much the indie period is over (for both iOS and Android) except as a side hobby you can make beer money off.

post #85 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
 

 

Folks don't get how much easier Android is to deal with vs Symbian.  Yes, iOS is smoother still but Android is by no means overly difficult for a developer.

 

App exposure and monetization is more of an issue.  Pretty much the indie period is over (for both iOS and Android) except as a side hobby you can make beer money off.

 

I dare to say that through my experience developing for Android, it is difficult. It's not because it is hard by any means, but because of all of the reasons I explained above and in my other posts. 

 

Which is more than good enough for plenty of high quality developers to say, "F that." and move to other platforms for better toolkits and encourage others to use those platforms through their work (apps) or own experiences with the platform. I was one of those for a very long while and will continue to be after my work with Android is complete.

 

lol@Symbian vs Android,btw:)

post #86 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

IOS 7, 91% of IOS users. Android 4, 85.7% of Android users. Of course, that doesn't have the click bait ring to it does it?

-kpluck

So what's your point? There are major security vulnerabilities in all but the latest release, so we should get excited about the version beginning with a 4?

post #87 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

A short primer on the proper usage of lay vs. lie. . .
http://www.chompchomp.com/handouts/irregularrules02.pdf

No doubt that's what you meant as it's pretty clear what I had to say was 100% correct, and even verified as such by Eric.

No, I meant lie.

And add "be boring" to that statement.

Your constant need to defend Google speaks volumes.

Obviously, you believe they need to be defended which, in itself, is quite interesting.

Nothing you post here changes the fact that Google is a one-trick pony that has failed to successfully monetise the majority of their many, badly thought out and implemented ideas.

It's a shame, really.
Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
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Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
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post #88 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

87.8% of all statistics are made up!

And the other 26% are just plain wrong!

(>_<)
Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
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Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
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post #89 of 183
The Android pie chart reminds me of the spinning beach ball on my Mac

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post #90 of 183
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Originally Posted by nht View Post

No, he's saying the exact opposite.  I agree with him...fragmentation today under 4.x is a lot better than it was 2.x.  Targeting for Jelly Bean 4.2 captures the majority of the US market and still leaves you with a fairly recent API stack to work with.

Apps under 5.x may require some retooling but probably not much more than iOS 7 did.

The exact opposite would be that the newer APIs in Android could easily be used, but they can't because most devices will never get the latest updates which means developers will have to continually shoot for the least common denominator by sticking with the APIs for the OS version with the most users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

How so if the the problem for both is the same (missing features) solution for both is the same (buy new hardware)?

Your definition states that any evolution of OS or HW changes causes fragmentation. That's now even close to what is meant by a fragmentation when it comes to developers. Fragmentation is where they have to make a demarcation point for support. With a new Android app that probably means not supporting anything below Ice Cream Sandwich or using APIs above Ice Cream Sandwich. That's fragmentation! On top of that Android is also disjointed because there are new devices coming out that may or may not have the latest OS as well as may or may not have suitable performance for your app. Think of iOS as a single platform; every year you have a newer, faster device with a newer OS number which includes new APIs. Is a cake walk for developers in comparison to this disjointed fragmentation of Android.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Sorry Soli. Just saw this post so I wasn't ignoring you.

I'm not really clear on what point you're trying to make. Google obviously has no control over what Amazon chooses to do with their own Android-based OS build. GOOG committed to AOSP long ago and to their credit still contribute to and maintain it even tho Amazon, Nokia and others who use it for commercial benefit aren't contributing back to it. Are you perhaps saying Google should never have open-sourced any part of the OS and blocked any efforts for others to commercially use it in any way? Or are you proposing that Google help Amazon in developing and maintaining a highly-customized and modified fork of Android that serves only Amazon's purposes? I don't think Amazon even acknowledges that their OS is Android-based, nor how much of Android remains in it.

I'm a bit confused as to what you're trying to say.

Sure they do. Google didn't have to call both version of Android by the same name (Apple used Darwin for their open source OS X foundation). They didn't have to make it so devices of different sizes only fit into one of four categories or overlap thus making the values obscure. Google didn't have to use the same common name for multiple API levels or multiple common names for the same primary version number. Either through a choice to obfuscate the truth and/or from poor planning this is all Google's fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepen03 View Post

oh so explain Siri then? Why can't an iPhone 4 or iPad 2 run Siri? Siri is a SOFTWARE that runs off of a server. It requires no new hardware to run.

1) Perspective is a good start, like @Tallest Skil. Have you even considered what would have happened to the Siri HW network and HW servers had every single iPhone that could get iOS 4.0 been allowed to access Siri? They had enough problems with it with just the iPhone 4 using it on opening weekend. Your claims of HW are foolishly limited to the iDevice you hold in your hand without any consideration for the many, many years Apple has been selling iDevices.

2) As far as I know we live in a technological age where all SW runs on HW. Maybe one day Siri won't have to use an iPhone's HW microphone which will then process the audio using other on-baord HW into a file(s) then send it using the network HW across multiple ISP network HW to an Apple server which will then process the audio on its HW before sending it back to you over the same or similar channels to show up on your HW display and/or as audio out of your HW speaker but that hasn't yet happened.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #91 of 183
What I fail to understand how 8% of IOS is on IOS 8, developers don't make that much, 5% maybe, there is no public beta, even then it would be 20% like android top precentages, and surely I though hack community would only make 1%?
post #92 of 183
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Originally Posted by Curtis Hannah View Post

What I fail to understand how 8% of IOS is on IOS 8, developers don't make that much, 5% maybe, there is no public beta, even then it would be 20% like android top precentages, and surely I though hack community would only make 1%?

On top of that every iOS betas needs to have the UDID of the device added to the developer's account or you'll never be able to use it once you install it. However, each developer account has 100(?) devices they can activate to allow others to install the betas. I paid for both iOS and Mac developer accounts and have added family and friend UDIDs to my account, as well as uploaded the needed IPSWs to Dropbox so they can get use the betas.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #93 of 183

And obvious by sales numbers that consumers do not care.

post #94 of 183

And this article says what about the OSs exactly? Android have widgets, notifications, can send any attachments in mail messages, can charge in any micro usb and lot lot of features since version 2, things that not even today Apple iOS/iPhone have!

I am a programmer I know the API differences about the different OSs versions but I don't understand all this hype, and by the way, Apple iOS is not the same on every iPhone, even with the same version number there's plenty of features not available in different iPhones, iPads. The same happens on Android, call it API number or OS version.

post #95 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Sure they do. Google didn't have to call both version of Android by the same name (Apple used Darwin for their open source OS X foundation). They didn't have to make it so devices of different sizes only fit into one of four categories or overlap thus making the values obscure. Google didn't have to use the same common name for multiple API levels or multiple common names for the same primary version number.

Sol, doesn't Google call the non-Google Android version AOSP? Some reporters, bloggers and forum commenters are the ones lazily referring to every flavor and fork as "Android". You know as well as I do that when Google reports numbers it's Google-Android numbers. They don't lump in Amazon Kindles and Nokia X's.

Still no idea what you mean about multiple common names for the same version number either. I don't know of any other name for Android 2.3 than Gingerbread, or any name other than Kit-Kat for Android 4.4. Hardly confusing to me and I'm surprised you're having trouble with the names or think it's some devious plan to hide. . . um. . . what exactly?

On the grouping of screen sizes how is that supposed to be allowing Google to obscure the truth. The truth about what? The categories are referenced in help pages meant to assist developers. They're not in marketing packets for the press.
Edited by Gatorguy - 8/23/14 at 6:06am
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post #96 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Sol, doesn't Google call the non-Google Android version AOSP? Some reporters, bloggers and forum commenters are the ones lazily referring to every flavor and fork as "Android". You know as well as I do that when Google reports numbers it's Google-Android numbers. They don't lump in Amazon Kindles and Nokia X's.

Still no idea what you mean about multiple common names for the same version number either. I don't know of any other name for Android 2.3 than Gingerbread, or any name other than Kit-Kat for Android 4.4. Hardly confusing to me and I'm surprised you're having trouble with the names or think it's some devious plan to hide. . . um. . . what exactly?

On the grouping of screen sizes how is that supposed to be allowing Google to obscure the truth. The truth about what? The categories are referenced in help pages meant to assist developers. They're not in marketing packets for the press.

https://source.android.com/
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post #97 of 183
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Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

https://source.android.com/

Hey thanks for that. I need to get out more.
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post #98 of 183
The problem isn't just the lowest common OS denominator with Android, it's that you can't even ensure that the standard API will work on all devices ( I've seen cases where the external SDK which reads SD cards fails). What most serious dev agencies do is target the top 20 devices. That mostly works. If however there is even more churn in that market - if Samsung loses dominance - it could be a total zoo.
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post #99 of 183
What's all the claptrap about SIRI. Siri isn't an API, it has no SDK. It's a system feature. Nothing to do with the kind of fragmentation which affects devs.
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post #100 of 183
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Originally Posted by SaltWater View Post

And this article says what about the OSs exactly? Android have widgets, notifications, can send any attachments in mail messages, can charge in any micro usb and lot lot of features since version 2, things that not even today Apple iOS/iPhone have!
I am a programmer I know the API differences about the different OSs versions but I don't understand all this hype, and by the way, Apple iOS is not the same on every iPhone, even with the same version number there's plenty of features not available in different iPhones, iPads. The same happens on Android, call it API number or OS version.

I think you're preaching to the wrong choir.
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post #101 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


It's not all that hard for developers. It's more of a mythical talking point anymore.
 

HAHAHHAHA. 

 

Sorry. No.

 

-Actual Developer. 

post #102 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltWater View Post
 

And this article says what about the OSs exactly? Android have widgets, notifications, can send any attachments in mail messages, can charge in any micro usb and lot lot of features since version 2, things that not even today Apple iOS/iPhone have!

I am a programmer I know the API differences about the different OSs versions but I don't understand all this hype, and by the way, Apple iOS is not the same on every iPhone, even with the same version number there's plenty of features not available in different iPhones, iPads. The same happens on Android, call it API number or OS version.


We get it. You don't understand the differences at all. That's ok. Plenty of people don't.

post #103 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloydbm4 View Post

I'll never understand why this concerns the I faithful so much? Seriously, is it just to make yourselves feel better about being on "Team Apple"? We get it, you don't like Google. But good gawd, give it a rest. You make it seem like a phone won't work anymore because it is running an older version of the platform.
News flash, if this is a big concern for the buyer, they have options with Android. They can buy a Nexus device or they can buy a Google Play Edition phone.

What is the advantage for the user? Are these updates by Google, meaning the user doesn't have to wait for their telco to release an update? Tnx
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post #104 of 183
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Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

The miserable operating system known as Android is only getting worse and worse.

 

Only around a fifth of Android users are on the latest version. In 2013, about a third of Android users were on the latest version. It's actually going down!

 

That figure is actually going down as more and more poor people are flocking to Android as Android continues to be adopted by certain users in very poor countries, also known as "developing" countries, or basically the third world, as I prefer to call it. And for those who are offended my by factual statement, I will of course provide proof for these ignorant people.

 

OpenSignal’s data indicates that over a third (35 percent) of Android devices in countries with GDP/capita of greater than $20,000 are on the latest version of Android vs just 12 percent in less economically developed countries.

 

 

Android fragmentation or diversity as some like to call it, is just absolutely out of control and totally disgusting!

 

Who says that diversity is a good thing? Well, Apple does for starters, but I don't think that this is what they have in mind when Apple speaks of diversity.

 

Here is proof that diversity is a terrible thing.

 

This chart is just unbelievable!

 

 

 

18,796 unique Android devices! Holy f-ucking crap! What a goddam mess!

 

http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/21/opensignal-2014-android-ecosystem-report/

No one ever talks about the fragmentation issue when comparing Android to iOS.  All that is ever mentioned is pure market share.  I don't think they'd care if only 5% of Android users were on the latest Android release.  They (the smartphone industry at large) still say that overall market share is everything when it comes to the dominating platform.  It's really, really stupid that there are never any caveats being mentioned.  Huge market share turns an OS platform into a big, bulky ocean liner that takes three miles to make a U-turn.  Any recent changes happen at glacial speed by the time it reaches 50% of the users.  Most of those Android devices aren't even flagship devices that can take most advantage of those OS changes.  All those low-end Android devices that are practically feature-phones are like paperweights to the overall Android platform.  Support is probably dropped on those things in less than the carrier contract time.  Yet you've got these pundits thinking Android is going to wipe out the iOS platform due to greater Android device unit numbers.  That is so stupid.  Gingerbread use is still at around 16% and not dropping all that fast.

post #105 of 183
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Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

No one ever talks about the fragmentation issue when comparing Android to iOS.  All that is ever mentioned is pure market share.  I don't think they'd care if only 5% of Android users were on the latest Android release.  They (the smartphone industry at large) still say that overall market share is everything when it comes to the dominating platform.  It's really, really stupid that there are never any caveats being mentioned.  Huge market share turns an OS platform into a big, bulky ocean liner that takes three miles to make a U-turn.  Any recent changes happen at glacial speed by the time it reaches 50% of the users.  Most of those Android devices aren't even flagship devices that can take most advantage of those OS changes.  All those low-end Android devices that are practically feature-phones are like paperweights to the overall Android platform.  Support is probably dropped on those things in less than the carrier contract time.  Yet you've got these pundits thinking Android is going to wipe out the iOS platform due to greater Android device unit numbers.  That is so stupid.  Gingerbread use is still at around 16% and not dropping all that fast.

So what's the actual problem with all this fragmentation?  Where are the complaints from Android users?

 

 

You say low-end Android phones are like feature phones and can't take advantage of the latest OS changes.  So?  If that's how people are using the phones, then what's wrong with that.  They aren't demanding powerful apps or new features.

 

You say the low-end Android phones are like paperweights to the platform, then also say that support is dropped quickly.  How are they paperweights then, if support is dropped quickly?  Software updates on phones is still quite a new thing, and some people might not care.

 

You say that high market share turns an OS into an ocean liner for speed of changes, but it doesn't seem to be slowing Android development, and the users on low-end Android phones evidently don't care all that much that they're missing out.

 

 

Plus, as is often mentioned, Google Play Services is updateable on older versions of Google's Android, and provides updates to the developer API without needing to update Android.

 

Also, given the relative sizes of the installed base, it's entirely possible that even with fragmentation, the number of Android 4.4 devices still outnumbers the iOS7 devices.

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post #106 of 183
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Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


What is the advantage for the user? Are these updates by Google, meaning the user doesn't have to wait for their telco to release an update? Tnx

Nexus devices are updatable via Google. No need to wait on any manufacturer or carrier (just like with Apple). ANd starting in Q1 of 2015 the new Google devices codenamed 'One' (lower end phones) and 'Silver' (high end phones) will get updated by Google as well.

 

Google Play Edition phones are updatable by the manufacturer, but independant of any carriers. Slightly slower than Nexus devices in getting updates, but still get them fairly quickly (usually within days to a few weeks of Google releasing the factory images.) 

 

Google recognizes that carriers and OEM's can be slow at updating (if at all) and they want to give users more options than just Nexus devices for those users that want updates quickly, but on more than just 1 or 2 pieces of hardware. 

post #107 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The miserable operating system known as Android is only getting worse and worse.

Only around a fifth of Android users are on the latest version. In 2013, about a third of Android users were on the latest version. It's actually going down!

That figure is actually going down as more and more poor people are flocking to Android as Android continues to be adopted by certain users in very poor countries, also known as "developing" countries, or basically the third world, as I prefer to call it. And for those who are offended my by factual statement, I will of course provide proof for these ignorant people.

OpenSignal’s data indicates that over a third (35 percent) of Android devices in countries with GDP/capita of greater than $20,000 are on the latest version of Android vs just 12 percent in less economically developed countries.

[chart]

Android fragmentation or diversity as some like to call it, is just absolutely out of control and totally disgusting!

Who says that diversity is a good thing? Well, Apple does for starters, but I don't think that this is what they have in mind when Apple speaks of diversity.

Here is proof that diversity is a terrible thing.

This chart is just unbelievable!

[chart]

18,796 unique Android devices! Holy f-ucking crap! What a goddam mess!

http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/21/opensignal-2014-android-ecosystem-report/



When comparing Android to iOS, I think we need to look at what each OS is designed for, phone-wise. If we make a comparison between iOS for the iPhone and want to compare it with Android devices, we should only look at the nexus, made by Google. Not the ones from 3rd party HW makers who need to tailer the Android software to each specific device, which many don't.

While it’s nice to see your enthusiasm here, I think you are not fully informed. I’m sure @Gatorguy can explain this better to you than I can, but it’s not the latest version of the OS itself that is important since most security issues are now being updated within the apps themselves. Google Play Services
Quote:
Although it acts as a system-level process, it can automatically be updated through Google Play Store, and is automatically installed on any Android device that runs Android 2.2 or higher. As a result, Google can update certain aspects of Android independently of the operating system itself, combating the "fragmentation" and inconsistent availability of new OS versions on certain devices, an issue that the platform had become infamous for.

Security is one reason to upgrade a device, features is another. And while many features are embedded into ‘the latest version’ of an OS, many features can be added to older versions of Android as well, probably because of the open nature of it.

Google provides major upgrades every six to nine months. That’s more frequent than Apple.

You really ought to read this piece, and then draw your own conclusion:

http://www.androidcentral.com/android-fragmentation-seemingly-impossible-conversation

Quote:
The meaning of 'fragmentation' tends to mold to whatever the argument is, for good or bad

I'm sick of it, you're sick of it, everyone who knows much of anything about Android is sick of it. "Fragmentation" is a word that gets bandied about when it comes to Android more frequently than just about anything else. It turns out that an open source operating system installed on devices made by hundreds of manufacturers all over the world, many of which don't really care whether Google releases an update, creates an unstable ecosystem.

Who knew.

We all know the answer we want to see in response to suggestions that Android is too fragmented to be functionally compared to other platforms in the world today. It took a little while, but Google came up with an Answer. The almighty Google Play Services, a suite of apps and tools that glue multiple versions of Android together into a mostly similar experience that any manufacturer can have access to. All those manufacturers have to do is agree to play nice in Google's sandbox, and basically do whatever Google says.

And Google says that 93% of all Android devices that they monitor are using the most recent version of Google Play Services, which means even if those devices aren't using the most recent version of Android they have access to almost all of the new features Google has announced within the last year. And 93% isn't bad at all, right?


Of course number are difficult to relate to as there are so many devices using the Android platform while we here are merely speaking about phones. Well, I am. And some dipAndroidStick4TV should not count here.

There are also things like this, that makes running the latest version not necessary:
Android Verify Apps feature, which will now run in background to detect malicious processes
http://www.gadgetcluster.com/2014/04/google-goes-hard-on-malware-for-android-platform/
Note that The Android apps verify feature is available on all android operating systems from android 2.2 and above.

Here’s an article on fragmentation:
http://opensignal.com/reports/2014/android-fragmentation/

Here’s a list with devices running 4.4:
http://www.androidkitkat.org/android-kitkat-devices/

Finally, if iOS7 is installed on ≈ 92% of Apple iPhones (/devices?) than Google is doing much better: ≈ 98% on all Nexus phones run the latest version of Android. Note that it isn’t only the latest major version, it’s running 4.4.4 where Apple doesn’t release the number of iOS users that are on 7.1; they only state iOS7 which therefore includes 7.0. When talking about numbers, it needs to be exact when the exact numbers can be found.

As for Android itself, I think it sucks on many levels. Supposedly it has taken them no less than 6 years to finally make ebooks full screen, a feature that came with KitKat (4.4, from Oct 31, 2013) That is pathetic slow, and strange to not have it work in full screen from day one. But I digress, was merely responding to the fragmentation. Which I think is way less of an issue as you are describing it.
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post #108 of 183
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Originally Posted by Lloydbm4 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

What is the advantage for the user? Are these updates by Google, meaning the user doesn't have to wait for their telco to release an update? Tnx
Nexus devices are updatable via Google. No need to wait on any manufacturer or carrier (just like with Apple). ANd starting in Q1 of 2015 the new Google devices codenamed 'One' (lower end phones) and 'Silver' (high end phones) will get updated by Google as well.

Google Play Edition phones are updatable by the manufacturer, but independant of any carriers. Slightly slower than Nexus devices in getting updates, but still get them fairly quickly (usually within days to a few weeks of Google releasing the factory images.) 

Google recognizes that carriers and OEM's can be slow at updating (if at all) and they want to give users more options than just Nexus devices for those users that want updates quickly, but on more than just 1 or 2 pieces of hardware. 

That's what I understand from it all. And it only makes sense to compare the Nexus to the iPhone and they are each made by the same company doing the SW, hence my reply to Apple ][.

I think that "Silver" phone from Google is going to be liked by many.
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post #109 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogGone View Post

So the moral is that iPhones have longer lives than android phones and can be upgrade with ease. Clearly that is not true for android units.

That is true. Many Android phones are basically obsolete as soon as people buy them and they are walking out of the store with them. Certain Android phones that were promised updates by the manufacturers never, ever received them. They were basically abandoned by the manufacturers, as they basically said "screw you!" to the uninformed users and poor bastards who bought those phones.

If we are to convert phone life into human life, then let's say that an average iOS device lives to about 80. In Android land, the average life span is probably around 40. Who wants to die when they're 40 years old? Android users apparently don't mind. Some don't even make it into their teens, and in the worst cases, they die a quick crib death.

I love your analogies! Your forthright language is an example to us all. 😃
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #110 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepen03 View Post

85.7 PERCENT OF ANDROID USERS ARE ON 4.0 OR UP! Nice click bait article!

85.7% OF ANDROID USERS ARE ON AN OS THAT IS THREE YEARS OLD! WELL POINTED OUT!
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #111 of 183
Originally Posted by Lloydbm4 View Post
I'll never understand why this concerns the I faithful so much? Seriously, is it just to make yourselves feel better about being on "Team Apple"? 

 

Yes, you don’t comprehend the discussion.

 
We get it, you don't like Google. But good gawd, give it a rest. You make it seem like a phone won't work anymore because it is running an older version of the platform.

 

It WON’T work anymore. It WON’T run the newest apps, it WON’T get the newest features it WON’T be able to do the same things that the rest of the ecosystem can do (or, rather, can’t), it WON’T be compatible with your friends’/coworkers’/clients’ devices.

 
News flash, if this is a big concern for the buyer, they have options with Android.

 

That’s great! You have the option to spend $400 to buy a new phone instead of being able to update your software for free. That’s sure to win them some new users!¡ 

 
They can buy a Nexus device or they can buy a Google Play Edition phone.

 

*12 page disclaimer on incompatible software

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #112 of 183
Originally Posted by Lloydbm4 View Post
The phone won't work anymore? Seriously, you can't be that stupid. Can you? Just because a phone fails to get an update, does it magically shut down?

 

Learn how to read, please.

 
It won't get the newest features without the latest OS update? You mean like when the iPhone 4 couldn't get Siri? Or that my 4th gen iPod can't get past iOS6?

 

This is a really pathetic attempt at trolling, you know.

 
 Ironically, Google Apps are independent of the OS now and update nearly every week.

 

Yeah, I’m sure that’s a situation people are happy about¡ Google becoming the new Microsoft; great going¡

 
How long does it take to get a single core App updated on iOS? Months? Year? Never? Apple's Keyboard comes to mind. 

 

If you’re so braindead that you think a keyboard is an app, how braindead must you be to think that we’ll believe you’re NOT trolling?

 
And while I applaud your inability to comprehend the basic fact that if you want updates immediately, a buyer will likely research his phone ahead of time and buy one that updates immediately (like a Nexus) vs buying some POS phone from AT&T.

 

90% of Android users prove that “a buyer” will not do this. Come off it, boyo.

 
Does the Nexus line of phones perplex you that much?

 

The fact that no one’s buying them, favoring the other models, pretty much destroys your “argument”.

 
*1 line disclaimer: Maybe you should learn a little something about how Android works before opening your mouth and spewing forth pure shite!

 

This is so stupid it isn’t even funny. I want it to be funny, but it’s so detached from reality.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #113 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloydbm4 View Post

The phone won't work anymore? Seriously, you can't be that stupid. Can you? Just because a phone fails to get an update, does it magically shut down? You must be used to Apple updates and having to plug into iTunes. 

It won't get the newest features without the latest OS update? You mean like when the iPhone 4 couldn't get Siri? Or that my 4th gen iPod can't get past iOS6? Ironically, Google Apps are independent of the OS now and update nearly every week. How long does it take to get a single core App updated on iOS? Months? Year? Never? Apple's Keyboard comes to mind. 

And while I applaud your inability to comprehend the basic fact that if you want updates immediately, a buyer will likely research his phone ahead of time and buy one that updates immediately (like a Nexus) vs buying some POS phone from AT&T. So, no he doesn't have to spend another $400 buying another phone to get updates, as he gets those updates for free. Does the Nexus line of phones perplex you that much?

*1 line disclaimer: Maybe you should learn a little something about how Android works before opening your mouth and spewing forth pure shite!

1) Cool it with the personal attacks.

2) I keep hearing this crap about the Google Play Services solving their OS problem. For starters, it should never have been a problem. Second, it's putting the APIs outside the OS. That's brilliant¡ Third, the OS still not updated which means any insecurities in the OS are still present. Finally, this move is about Google being able to regain some of the control it lost. None of these are things users should be applauding.

3) And how secure are those third party keyboards for Android?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloydbm4 View Post

You are likely the single reason. Great job.

1) Again, cool it with the personal attacks. If you want to debate a point he's made then do so (just as he shouldn't be calling you a troll, but you've already claimed to be the bigger man here why don't you start).

2) If it's a joke then why are you posting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloydbm4 View Post

Once again though, you have proven why this website (which was once great), is now the butt of so many jokes. You are singly to blame. And again, great job! You should be proud of yourself.

OK, not just a joke as in inadequate, but the actual butt, or punchline, of jokes. What are these jokes? Please, regale us with your humour.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #114 of 183
Originally Posted by Lloydbm4 View Post
LOL. Yep, the 'go to' defense. Call a person a troll if the expose your ignorance or disagree with you. Very 'moderator'-like of you.
Once again though, you have proven why this website (which was once great), is now the butt of so many jokes. You are singly to blame. And again, great job! You should be proud of yourself.


I’ve already refuted everything you’ve said. You refused to acknowledge said refutations and continued to spew lies. That’s trolling. Not just in my book, but in THE book.

 

Explain why 90% of Android users are too stupid to do what you say is obvious. Why don’t they “do their research” before buying? Why don’t they just buy brand new phones when theirs don’t receive software updates?

 

Again, Android is hopelessly fragmented, both in hardware and software. You have no assurance of compatibility with app features, nor of apps themselves.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #115 of 183
well, it doesn't matter how many people use the most recent version of mobile OS. android is still used by majority of people. it says 90% in the world. iOS is barely catching 10%.
Life is good to enjoy....
and Mac makes me more please....
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Life is good to enjoy....
and Mac makes me more please....
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post #116 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by archurban View Post

well, it doesn't matter how many people use the most recent version of mobile OS. android is still used by majority of people. it says 90% in the world. iOS is barely catching 10%.

Wait... so a mobile OS that is available on 19,000 different devices from over 100 manufacturers has more users?

No sh!t Sherlock...
post #117 of 183
Originally Posted by archurban View Post

well, it doesn't matter how many people use the most recent version of mobile OS. android is still used by majority of people. it says 90% in the world. iOS is barely catching 10%.

 

The majority of people in the world don't have a flush toilet.

The fact more people use Android doesn't mean it's a better OS than iOS or others.

post #118 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

The majority of people in the world don't have a flush toilet.
The fact more people use Android doesn't mean it's a better OS than iOS or others.

But it does mean it's way more adaptable than other mobile OS'es. Setting aside the flame wars for a moment I think it's incredible how useful and widespread Android has become, and all in less than 6 years! Medical systems, sound and media devices, tablets and smartphones, security systems, robotics, defense. . .

I doubt Google, much less anyone else, could have anticipated how successful the OS would be. That there's 1000's of devices depending on it today is a testament to its vibrancy.
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #119 of 183
Originally Posted by Lloydbm4 View Post
You make it seem like a phone won't work anymore because it is running an older version of the platform.

 

Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

So what's the actual problem with all this fragmentation?  Where are the complaints from Android users?

 

 

You say low-end Android phones are like feature phones and can't take advantage of the latest OS changes.  So?  If that's how people are using the phones, then what's wrong with that.  They aren't demanding powerful apps or new features.

 

You say the low-end Android phones are like paperweights to the platform, then also say that support is dropped quickly.  How are they paperweights then, if support is dropped quickly?  Software updates on phones is still quite a new thing, and some people might not care.

Plus, as is often mentioned, Google Play Services is updateable on older versions of Google's Android, and provides updates to the developer API without needing to update Android.

 

Actually, this is my exact experience with the budget Sony Xperia tipo.

Bought it for 90 pounds in 2012 with 4.0.3 ice cream sandwich.

It can't be updated to KitKat, no updates forthcoming from Sony.

Loads of apps preinstalled which eat precious memory and can't be removed:

eBay, Facebook, Amazon Music player etc.

Not only can't they be removed but their updates eat into the memory as well.

 

Google Play Services also being updated, again eating into the phone memory.

 

Now the phone is telling me it's running out of space to store SMS messages reducing its functionality to below that of a feature phone. I'm having to uninstall apps which can be removed just to maintain memory.

 

It's a second phone, I'm so glad I have an iPhone 5  as my main phone.

Definitely won't get another Sony Android phone from this experience.

 

I can see from this experience the Google Play Services updates is a sticking plaster to the fundamental Android problem of being unable to officially update the phone OS.

It's a disaster waiting to happen but good for Apple in the long run.

 

 

Some analysts don't realise that Apple doesn't need a low end phone because the unsatisfactory experience from low end Android is a gateway to the quality iOS experience.

 

It may even be the reason why high end Android sales suffer.  When non-tech people have a poor experience in Android, I doubt they think it's because they bought a slow phone; they think this phone uses Android and is poor, maybe i should try an iPhone, or a Nokia or Blackberry instead.  They will hesitate to spend even more money on a high end device using the same Android system that gave them problems.

 

This is very bad news for Google in the long run, the high-end Android makers are likely to jump ship into Windows mobile or Tizen, leaving Android on the cheap Chinese handsets and the many Android forks, most of which won't generate revenue for Google.

post #120 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiA View Post

The majority of people in the world don't have a flush toilet.
The fact more people use Android doesn't mean it's a better OS than iOS or others.

LMAO (and can flush it, too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I think it's incredible how useful and widespread Android has become, and all in less than 6 years!

Learned from the best.

Best.
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  • While 91% of Apple users run iOS 7, five different versions of Android hold 10%+ share
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