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Document claims to detail 'Phosphorus,' a mysterious chip for Apple's 'iPhone 6' [u]

post #1 of 59
Thread Starter 
Apple's so-called "iPhone 6" may include a new chip code-named "Phosphorus" for analyzing new data, such as barometric pressure of the surrounding environment of the company's motion coprocessor, a new schematic suggests [updated].




Update: While the original leak suggested the schematic above showed off a new "M8" motion coprocessor, a pair of knowledgeable commenters at MacRumors believe that the new mystery chip may actually be a barometric pressure sensor. The part is said to be similar to the Bosch BMP280.

Commenter "leecbaker" suggested that the addition of a barometric pressure sensor to the "iPhone 6" could allow for enhanced GPS and indoor/outdoor navigation functions. Other uses would include forecasting weather, better measurement of altitude, and potentially helping to measure users' breathing rates.

The original story published earlier Monday remains in its entirety:

Last year, Apple introduced the M7 coprocessor as part of the A7 system-on-a-chip inside the iPhone 5s, allowing battery-efficient motion tracking. This year's "A8" chip may also feature an improved "M8" motion sensor, according to the latest alleged "iPhone 6" schematic, published on Monday through Geek Bar's Weibo account and spotlighted by G for Games.

While the document doesn't offer any specifics on what upgrades the "M8" might accomplish, GeekBar speculates that the "Phosphorous" chip might help to collect and interpret new health-related data for the next-generation iPhone. Potential subjects suggested include heart rate, calories burned, cholesterol levels, blood sugar and more.

Of course, all of that data can be read into the new Health app included in Apple's next-generation iOS 8 mobile operating system, which will launch next month when Apple is widely expected to unveil its "iPhone 6."

If Apple does indeed have an "M8" in the works, it's likely to be a part of a next-generation "A8" system-on-chip that will power the next iPhone. Some reports have claimed Apple's new custom CPU will be a multi-core design clocked at up to 2 gigahertz.

Schiller M7


When the M7 was unveiled last year, observers speculated that Apple could be laying the groundwork for a new tool that could power the company's so-called "iWatch," which is expected to focus on collecting health and fitness data. As such, with an Apple wearable device expected to debut this fall, it's also possible that an "M8" could be a hint of things to come in the "iWatch."

In its current incarnation, the M7 silently tracks user activity in the background. Compatible apps that tap into this data can track a user's steps throughout the day, providing essentially the same functionality as popular pedometers like Fitbit.
post #2 of 59
'Phosphorus eh? Better keep water well away from that then!
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post #3 of 59
What are the types of things Apple's sensors and health app can do without requiring FDA approval? Is it just a matter of not diagnosing or recommending a specific course of action?
post #4 of 59
Phosphorus is also the Greek name for the Morning Star or "light bearer"
post #5 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

..."Phosphorous"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

'Phosphorus eh?

Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
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Send from my iPhone. Excuse brevity and auto-corrupt.
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post #6 of 59
I wonder if there will be sold differing classes of iWatch-devices depending on what phone the owner has. If, for example you owned an iPhone 6 with the latest and most powerful tech, you might only need a smaller wrist device to track health with sensors, whereas if you have an iPhone 5 or earlier (or you don't have an iPhone) your iWatch would be larger with more (and more expensive) sensor tech in the band.

This would allow for cheaper, equally powerful iWatches to be sold to people with the newest iPhones (and allow for Apple to sell affordable iPhone/iWatch sets) while offering similar advanced functionality to everyone else but at a higher standalone price.
post #7 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrier Wave View Post

I wonder if there will be sold differing classes of iWatch-devices depending on what phone the owner has. If, for example you owned an iPhone 6 with the latest and most powerful tech, you might only need a smaller wrist device to track health with sensors, whereas if you have an iPhone 5 or earlier (or you don't have an iPhone) your iWatch would be larger with more (and more expensive) sensor tech in the band.

This would allow for cheaper, equally powerful iWatches to be sold to people with the newest iPhones (and allow for Apple to sell affordable iPhone/iWatch sets) while offering similar advanced functionality to everyone else but at a higher standalone price.


Nope

post #8 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strix View Post

Phosphorus is also the Greek name for the Morning Star or "light bearer"

Stars use to typically guide people hundread a of years ago. So this could be a pun be apple. E.g Apple will guide other companys, e.g they will copy them, e.g Samsung.
post #9 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrier Wave View Post

I wonder if there will be sold differing classes of iWatch-devices depending on what phone the owner has. If, for example you owned an iPhone 6 with the latest and most powerful tech, you might only need a smaller wrist device to track health with sensors, whereas if you have an iPhone 5 or earlier (or you don't have an iPhone) your iWatch would be larger with more (and more expensive) sensor tech in the band.

This would allow for cheaper, equally powerful iWatches to be sold to people with the newest iPhones (and allow for Apple to sell affordable iPhone/iWatch sets) while offering similar advanced functionality to everyone else but at a higher standalone price.

I could see that happening, but not based on the iPhone you've purchased, but in the wrist-worn device. For instance, the more stylish device will have less than the sporty version you are to wear every day.

One marketing method Apple could use is to get people to buy multiple iWatches. You have your everyday sporty version which you also wear to sleep and then you have your stylish versions for when you dress up. With this method you get more sensors for exercising and sleep but something stylish that still tracks basic vitals at other times. Apple in return gets more iWatch sales per user.

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post #10 of 59
BP, Heart Rate & O2 would be winners for a Health App. As to if this can be done easily & Accurately without the traditional BP Cuff, - I don't know.
post #11 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I could see that happening, but not based on the iPhone you've purchased, but in the wrist-worn device. For instance, the more stylish device will have less than the sporty version you are to wear every day.

One marketing method Apple could use is to get people to buy multiple iWatches. You have your everyday sporty version which you also wear to sleep and then you have your stylish versions for when you dress up. With this method you get more sensors for exercising and sleep but something stylish that still tracks basic vitals at other times. Apple in return gets more iWatch sales per user.
I'll be very curious to see exactly what Apple does in this space. Right now smart watches seem to be a solution looking for a problem. It's tech companies looking for the next big thing and tech sites/geeks bored and looking for something new to get excited about. Very little concrete information has leaked about what Apple is working on so either it's one of their best kept secrets ever or it's a long way from a product ready for sale.
post #12 of 59
B-b-b-buuuuuuuuuurp! Ah, that's better.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #13 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Right now smart watches seem to be a solution looking for a problem.

I don't see it that way at all. I see the M7 as being in the wrong place. Those sensors are best served by being on your person. I see wearables as a market segment I've wasted a long time for. The wrist is just the first step in intelligent wearables. Eventually I see subnormal implants and even a one-day-pill that monitors your vitals which will send to some wearable which then passes it on to your phone or directly to your private network for data collection. I then see this info being used in the home to give you warning of potential issues. The iWatch isn't looking for a problem, it's waiting for the technology to be at a point that the next phase of consumer electronics can begin.

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post #14 of 59
U wot m8?
post #15 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I don't see it that way at all. I see the M7 as being in the wrong place. Those sensors are best served by being on your person. I see wearables as a market segment I've wasted a long time for. The wrist is just the first step in intelligent wearables. Eventually I see subnormal implants and even a one-day-pill that monitors your vitals which will send to some wearable which then passes it on to your phone or directly to your private network for data collection. I then see this info being used in the home to give you warning of potential issues. The iWatch isn't looking for a problem, it's waiting for the technology to be at a point that the next phase of consumer electronics can begin.
That's why I said right now. Although I'm still skeptical about Apple being able to get into the health space without encountering a lot of red tape, regulations and FDA approvals. And that's just the United States. I'm curious how big their ambition is here. It seems like it could be a health and fitness play but then with some of the recent hires it seems like it could be a luxury fashion play. Perhaps Apple is going down multiple paths - luxury fashion and health/fitness? Still not sure how they blend the two.
post #16 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I don't see it that way at all... I see wearables as a market segment I've wasted a long time for.

I doubt that you waste two seconds on anything!

 

I agree with you about wearables but there is a great development/application platform in the iPhone, that wonderful 'supercomputer' in your pocket.

Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #17 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Right now smart watches seem to be a solution looking for a problem...

Believe me when I say that LASERs were regarded in the same vein 40 years ago. I was a member of the Laser Institute of America back then and there was always this promise in them but not yet the excitement. Mind you, I did hit the Moon with one, that was quite exciting!

Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #18 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post
 

Believe me when I say that LASERs were regarded in the same vein 40 years ago. I was a member of the Laser Institute of America back then and there was always this promise in them but not yet the excitement. Mind you, I did hit the Moon with one, that was quite exciting!

And now we attach LASERs to sharks. How times have changed!

post #19 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post



Well I was correct anyway 1smile.gif
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post #20 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrier Wave View Post

I wonder if there will be sold differing classes of iWatch-devices depending on what phone the owner has. If, for example you owned an iPhone 6 with the latest and most powerful tech, you might only need a smaller wrist device to track health with sensors, whereas if you have an iPhone 5 or earlier (or you don't have an iPhone) your iWatch would be larger with more (and more expensive) sensor tech in the band.

This would allow for cheaper, equally powerful iWatches to be sold to people with the newest iPhones (and allow for Apple to sell affordable iPhone/iWatch sets) while offering similar advanced functionality to everyone else but at a higher standalone price.

I could see that happening, but not based on the iPhone you've purchased, but in the wrist-worn device. For instance, the more stylish device will have less than the sporty version you are to wear every day.

One marketing method Apple could use is to get people to buy multiple iWatches. You have your everyday sporty version which you also wear to sleep and then you have your stylish versions for when you dress up. With this method you get more sensors for exercising and sleep but something stylish that still tracks basic vitals at other times. Apple in return gets more iWatch sales per user.

I see as much likelihood of that happening as of Samsung bringing out one phone model per year.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #21 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeb View Post

U wot m8?

Schultz loves you for writing sensible English. 😃
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post #22 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I see as much likelihood of that happening as of Samsung bringing out one phone model per year.

What part? You don't think there will ever be a sustainable and popular wearables market? You don't think there will ever be sub-dermal CE?

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post #23 of 59
one thing is for sure: there will be a shortage, causing manufacturing delays….
post #24 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I see as much likelihood of that happening as of Samsung bringing out one phone model per year.

What part? You don't think there will ever be a sustainable and popular wearables market? You don't think there will ever be sub-dermal CE?

There was only one part to your post—suggesting that Apple would try and encourage people to buy multiple Apple watches. Apple's philosophy couldn't be further removed from that. The great thing about the iPhone is the way in which it makes so many devices redundant. It was the same with the iMac. What you suggest is what I would expect from Microsoft who offered several versions of Windows - Extreme, Gamer, Business, Home, Student etc. Either Apple will design an elegant solution that is also as functional as you could wish for, or it won't.

I am somewhat with you, though, on the struggle of combining those ideals! To my mind, it will be extremely hard to combine style with function. I think you saw that great example from Relic of a mechanical watch with a digital overlay. It looked cool in the vid, but even then I'm not sure of its real-world practicality. I can't imagine any screen on a wrist being large enough to be used with ease, simply due to its size,but if anyone can make it work, Apple can. I'm not sold on the idea of a screen on a bracelet.

The main problem, as I see it, is that in order to have a screen big enough to display data clearly, you have to have a pretty big screen. For women in particular, that will look inelegant.

Yes, I think there is a future for wearables, but in the form of a snazzy watch? Considering Tim Cook's scepticism of the idea of getting people to wear watches, it seems unlikely. I'm more inclined to think it will be a simple strap or something even smaller.

I like your thoughts on the M8. Thing is, the iPhone itself is so useful and is always on the person. If Apple can keep getting it lighter and thinner, then the iPhone pretty well disappears. What do you gain simply by duplicating that functionality in a watch?

Mobile payments might be the big thing. Also, what you pine for—a remote security device for your other Apple gear; that would certainly be a great reason for an Apple wearable.

If Apple bring out a watch, will we all go "Eureka!"? It's been so long since Apple had a flop, it's hard to imagine them failing. I feel that if Apple bring out a wearable, it will probably be a resounding success, and we will all go, "Of course! That's how it's done. It's all so obvious really!" 😃
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post #25 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

There was only one part to your post—suggesting that Apple would try and encourage people to buy multiple Apple watches. Apple's philosophy couldn't be further removed from that. The great thing about the iPhone is the way in which it makes so many devices redundant. It was the same with the iMac. What you suggest is what I would expect from Microsoft who offered several versions of Windows - Extreme, Gamer, Business, Home, Student etc. Either Apple will design an elegant solution that is also as functional as you could wish for, or it won't.

I am somewhat with you, though, on the struggle of combining those ideals! To my mind, it will be extremely hard to combine style with function. I think you saw that great example from Relic of a mechanical watch with a digital overlay. It looked cool in the vid, but even then I'm not sure of its real-world practicality. I can't imagine any screen on a wrist being large enough to be used with ease, simply due to its size,but if anyone can make it work, Apple can. I'm not sold on the idea of a screen on a bracelet.

The main problem, as I see it, is that in order to have a screen big enough to display data clearly, you have to have a pretty big screen. For women in particular, that will look inelegant.

Yes, I think there is a future for wearables, but in the form of a snazzy watch? Considering Tim Cook's scepticism of the idea of getting people to wear watches, it seems unlikely. I'm more inclined to think it will be a simple strap or something even smaller.

I like your thoughts on the M8. Thing is, the iPhone itself is so useful and is always on the person. If Apple can keep getting it lighter and thinner, then the iPhone pretty well disappears. What do you gain simply by duplicating that functionality in a watch?

Mobile payments might be the big thing. Also, what you pine for—a remote security device for your other Apple gear; that would certainly be a great reason for an Apple wearable.

If Apple bring out a watch, will we all go "Eureka!"? It's been so long since Apple had a flop, it's hard to imagine them failing. I feel that if Apple bring out a wearable, it will probably be a resounding success, and we will all go, "Of course! That's how it's done. It's all so obvious really!" 😃

1) Ah, I see. That was just spitballing ideas. I was making no predictions about what I think will come.

2) The wrist is simply a great place for wearable electronics. I suspect wearables will be all over but the wrist is first and will continue being used.

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post #26 of 59
BMP282AC=>BMP280 Series is an atmospheric pressure from Bosch.
Stop calling it a co-processor.
post #27 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

'Phosphorus eh? Better keep water well away from that then!

:D

post #28 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'll be very curious to see exactly what Apple does in this space. Right now smart watches seem to be a solution looking for a problem. It's tech companies looking for the next big thing and tech sites/geeks bored and looking for something new to get excited about. Very little concrete information has leaked about what Apple is working on so either it's one of their best kept secrets ever or it's a long way from a product ready for sale.

I totally agree. A classic case in problemeering.

Since we're grasping at ways to hang more expensive tech from humans why hasn't anyone talked about a Smart Tiara?

You want one, I know you do. 1wink.gif
post #29 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

What are the types of things Apple's sensors and health app can do without requiring FDA approval? Is it just a matter of not diagnosing or recommending a specific course of action?

My guess is that any data gathered would be information to the user or the healthcare provider. An example would be recommended dietary or exercise regimen changes etc... any diagnostic action would probably have to be confirmed at the hospital or with an FDA approved device. With the EMR component they appear to be courting, the provider could monitor compliance or recommended a follow up appointment for confirmation of the observed changes. 

post #30 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

published on Monday through Geek Bar's Weibo account and spotlighted by G for Games.

"... a copy of which was provided to AppleInsider."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'll be very curious to see exactly what Apple does in this space. Right now smart watches seem to be a solution looking for a problem. It's tech companies looking for the next big thing and tech sites/geeks bored and looking for something new to get excited about.

The problem devices such as the Galaxy Gear seems to address is either:
1. I'm a gadget geek and need something to impress the other geeks with, or
2. My Galaxy Note II is too large so I got this portable "second screen" with speakerphone so I don't have to pull out my giant phablet to do basic things smartphones were originally designed to do well, but are now too clumsy at.

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post #32 of 59
So that's where KDarling ran off to....
post #33 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post

So that's where KDarling ran off to....
?
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post #34 of 59
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I see wearables as a market segment I've wasted [heh] a long time for. The wrist is just the first step in intelligent wearables. Eventually I see subnormal implants and even a one-day-pill that monitors your vitals which will send to some wearable which then passes it on to your phone or directly to your private network for data collection. I then see this info being used in the home to give you warning of potential issues. 

 

I agree that this is may just be the beginning of whole sets of entirely new classes of monitoring sensors.  As they get smaller and cheaper and more capable it's very likely that they will be used for many purposes we haven't even thought of yet.  As horrible (overall) as some of what you're talking about sounds to me personally (subnormal [you meant subdermal, right] and swallow-me monitors [some exist now]), I do think some people will be all over that. I think most of it will be people looking for whiz-bang coolness (geeks impressing geeks), but I can also see specific cases where it could have great utility that I might even consider for short periods of time.

 

But lets talk about a huge issue with all of these sensors, both body and home.  How do you manage this very, very personal, very, very revealing data?  Let's presume that some level of this kind of monitoring will indeed become commonplace.  Who gets to have access to it, and will there be laws governing its usage and/or sales?  Or will we end up in the same situation we are now with things like location data, where companies are scrambling over each other to know exactly where you are every minute of the day and what you ate last night?  Predicting what you want to buy tomorrow is one thing, predicting when you die is another.  But from a technical standpoint, the only difference is using different sensors.

 

I think you already know that personally I find all of this vile and reprehensible.  But regardless of what I think, bio sensors start to cross the line into medical data, and that's a market that's highly regulated.  In other words, our society at large cares about this kind of data so much that our lawmakers have seen fit to enact laws to protect said data.  What happens when this data is now being gathered and potentially analyzed by unregulated third parties like Apple or Google or Microsoft or Nike, or any number of tiny new companies that we've never heard of, on behalf of their users.  Unless we figure out secure, reliable methods that let users own and manage their own data without making it available to these third parties, there are some really big decisions that citizens and lawmakers will be faced with over the next few years.

 

It sounds like these kinds of devices are of interest do you.  What are your concerns about the uses of that data by third parties intermediates?

No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


?


I remember KDarling posting here quite frequently a few months ago and then suddenly vanished. It seems he was one of the people who identified the chip as a barometric pressure sensor.

post #36 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

What are your concerns about the uses of that data by third parties intermediates?

I always have concerns but some basic biometrics being recorded by an Apple device that then gets stored in your iPhone's Health app and synced with iCloud that could be compromised and used in nefarious was is very, very far down on my list of worrisome things in the world.

I think this sort data will be very useful in understanding our personal health and habits better, as well as understanding society's traits and habits. Just yesterday Jawbone scratched the surface...

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post #37 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post


I remember KDarling posting here quite frequently a few months ago and then suddenly vanished. It seems he was one of the people who identified the chip as a barometric pressure sensor.

Ah, ok. IMHO it was the AI forum's loss...
melior diabolus quem scies
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post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Ah, ok. IMHO it was the AI forum's loss...


I would tend to agree. I think I had some disagreements with him but he was generally pretty knowledgeable. I think Eric The Half Bee was the one who was arguing with him the most if memory serves.

post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post


I would tend to agree. I think I had some disagreements with him but he was generally pretty knowledgeable. I think Eric The Half Bee was the one who was arguing with him the most if memory serves.

You have an accurate memory. As I said, forums loss IMO
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post #40 of 59

Applications of BMP280 chip:

 

  • Enhancement of GPS navigation (e.g. time-to-first-fix improvement, dead-reckoning, slope detection)
  • Indoor navigation (floor detection, elevator detection)
  • Outdoor navigation, leisure and sports applications
  • Weather forecast
  • Health care applications (e.g. spirometry)
  • Vertical velocity indication (e.g. rise/sink speed)
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