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Document claims to detail 'Phosphorus,' a mysterious chip for Apple's 'iPhone 6' [u] - Page 2

post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

2) The wrist is simply a great place for wearable electronics. I suspect wearables will be all over but the wrist is first and will continue being used.

How about a smart-shirt?
http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/25/ralph-lauren-tech-polo-shirt/#continued
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post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

How about a smart-shirt?
http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/25/ralph-lauren-tech-polo-shirt/#continued

I expect that and many other types of clothing to be introduced, but I don't expect that Ralph Lauren shirt to be very successful, nor do I see that style of "smart-wear" which is just clothing with some bulky electronics sewn to be a hit. At some point many years down the road I expect there will be small, flexible, and power efficient components that will added to clothing with no visual and hardly any tactile different in the material.

Nike is said to have the shoes with self-tying power laces Marty wore in Back to the Future II available next year. Note: He went from 1985 to 2015.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #43 of 59

That is 2 strikes for GeekBar. One more and Apple Insider should stop reporting his claims. I don't think this guy has any electronics background. This was clear to me after the report about A8 having 1GB of ram when he confused external memory for onchip RAM.

post #44 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I expect that and many other types of clothing to be introduced, but I don't expect that Ralph Lauren shirt to be very successful, nor do I see that style of "smart-wear" which is just clothing with some bulky electronics sewn to be a hit.

It's only a start. The range of connected and biometric-sensing smart-wear is going to look crazy 5 years from now, at least in my opinion. Shoes, hearing-aids, gloves, eye-wear, socks, buttons, you name it.
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post #45 of 59
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I don't see it that way at all. I see the M7 as being in the wrong place. Those sensors are best served by being on your person. I see wearables as a market segment I've wasted a long time for. The wrist is just the first step in intelligent wearables. Eventually I see subnormal implants and even a one-day-pill that monitors your vitals which will send to some wearable which then passes it on to your phone or directly to your private network for data collection. I then see this info being used in the home to give you warning of potential issues. The iWatch isn't looking for a problem, it's waiting for the technology to be at a point that the next phase of consumer electronics can begin.
That's why I said right now. Although I'm still skeptical about Apple being able to get into the health space without encountering a lot of red tape, regulations and FDA approvals. And that's just the United States. I'm curious how big their ambition is here. It seems like it could be a health and fitness play but then with some of the recent hires it seems like it could be a luxury fashion play. Perhaps Apple is going down multiple paths - luxury fashion and health/fitness? Still not sure how they blend the two.

You say you are "curious how big (Apple's) ambition is..." I'd say that their ambition is very huge... Certainly intending to sell millions of units or they wouldn't be working so hard and spending so much.

There will be a fashion element in all of the iWatch devices as Apple is sensitive to their iDevices being fashionable. However, with the iWatch I expect the fashion element to be ramped up considerably. Perhaps with some units only sold in high end outlets.

Finally, Apple has done their homework with the FDA, met with them (earlier AI story) and knows what they can claim and what they cannot claim. However, with the iWatch as a data collector for fitness there is much they can do. If the devices is designed to report that data to health officials for diagnosis then Apple can draw a clear line between what they do and what medicine will do. The FDA states clearly what constitutes a "medical device" and therefore subject to FDA approval and regulation. Apple can dance lightly around the edges of being a medical device; they've already consulted with the FDA on this. And, since they've already consulted with the major medical insurers I suspect they intend to cross the line in certain ways.

Major insurers have offered discounts for fitness under certain situations. Let's say the discount for being monitored is $500 per year, then buying an iWatch becomes a no brainer if it gives you a significant discount and as a bonus allows you to live a healthier lifestyle. However Apple intends to play this, it's going to be nothing like the "watches" by Motorola, Samsung, et al.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #46 of 59
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I always have concerns but some basic biometrics being recorded by an Apple device that then gets stored in your iPhone's Health app and synced with iCloud that could be compromised and used in nefarious was is very, very far down on my list of worrisome things in the world.

I think this sort data will be very useful in understanding our personal health and habits better, as well as understanding society's traits and habits. Just yesterday Jawbone scratched the surface...

 

I know you're a techie, but I guess you may be farther down the it's-okay-to-watch-me-24/7 path than I thought you were.

 

You described the first situation in a very narrow way: "basic biometrics" (what is basic/okay with you vs. what wouldn't be okay?), "an Apple device" (as I mentioned, many, many companies will be entering this market), "stored in your iPhone Health app" (just one option), "iCloud" (Apple only, though presumed for iOS).

 

So it more or less sounds like you're saying that you'll trust Apple with personal bio and medical data about yourself.  I guess it depends on what your definition of "basic" is, but even then how do we determine what is and is not okay in general?  These will be huge societal and legal questions to sort out in the next few years, regardless of the personal preferences of you or I, and individual trust or non-trust in each company.

 

- Would you feel just as open and trusting of wearing a google device that recorded your biometrics?  

- How about a generic android-based device manufactured by a random Chinese manufacturer with a name that we don't immediately recognize?  

- Why or why not?  

 

There are a lot of questions that we're going to deal with, both as a society/legally, and as consumers making educated decisions.  Again, medical data has already been deemed by our culture at large to be important enough to regulate.  This is factual, and says a lot about our society at large, empirically.

 

The Jawbone story is more or less what I referred to above as "geeks impressing geeks".  It's cute and fun, but not important data, and there are already amazing earthquake sensors that can tell scientists and researchers exactly how much movement there was in different areas and the likelihood of being awakened.  All without compromising millions of individuals by tracking sleep habits and sending that data to unregulated data-hungry corporations.

 

I am interested in your answers and opinions on this, even though I was a little surprised by your answer.

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post #47 of 59
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Finally, Apple has done their homework with the FDA, met with them (earlier AI story) and knows what they can claim and what they cannot claim. However, with the iWatch as a data collector for fitness there is much they can do. If the devices is designed to report that data to health officials for diagnosis then Apple can draw a clear line between what they do and what medicine will do. The FDA states clearly what constitutes a "medical device" and therefore subject to FDA approval and regulation. Apple can dance lightly around the edges of being a medical device; they've already consulted with the FDA on this. And, since they've already consulted with the major medical insurers I suspect they intend to cross the line in certain ways.

 

This.  I think there will be very careful dancing around the designation of "medical device" and what kind of data (vs. analysis) will be allowed (and by whom).  As I've mentioned above, I think there will be new legal issues to sort out as these types of devices and sensors evolve.

 

Major insurers have offered discounts for fitness under certain situations. Let's say the discount for being monitored is $500 per year, then buying an iWatch becomes a no brainer if it gives you a significant discount and as a bonus allows you to live a healthier lifestyle. However Apple intends to play this, it's going to be nothing like the "watches" by Motorola, Samsung, et al.
 

And This!  Brilliant.  Let me connect the final dots on this one.  I've long thought about other devices and how they work into this type of process (like 24/7 GPS-tracking devices for auto insurance; evil!), but this is exactly how Apple was able to break into the phone business.  Look to other industries with financial incentives to subsidize your device!

 

Apple already did this successfully with the original AT&T deal, and now they're doing it with every major carrier (in the US).  Don't think of it as if the consumer is going to do that math; consumers just aren't that smart, in general.  But the healthcare or insurance industries are very smart and extremely analytics-focused.  They can and will do the math and they could easily decide to subsidize the devices.  If Apple hasn't already thought about this, I'm sure they will.  Or the insurance companies will.

 

This would be great news for those of us who are well-vested in AAPL, but scary in the long run for society.  Mark my words, it starts off as discounts, then eventually you pay a premium for not being tracked/monitored, then eventually you won't be able to get insurance at all without it.  I've long said the same thing about auto insurance, and they're already heading down that road.

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post #48 of 59
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I always have concerns but some basic biometrics being recorded by an Apple device that then gets stored in your iPhone's Health app and synced with iCloud that could be compromised and used in nefarious was is very, very far down on my list of worrisome things in the world.

 

Oh, and one last comment for now.  Any large-scale data like this WILL be compromised, eventually.  It's not a question of if.  There are always many different attack vectors, and if the quantity or value of the data is high enough or interesting enough, it will absolutely be compromised.

 

If it is compromised, what is the likelihood that it will be used for nefarious purposes?  That's a separate question, but given the nature of what it takes to get this kind of data, I'd have to say pretty good, though I'm not sure what that would mean to individuals.

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post #49 of 59
[quote name=
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

I know you're a techie, but I guess you may be farther down the it's-okay-to-watch-me-24/7 path than I thought you were.

You described the first situation in a very narrow way: "basic biometrics" (what is basic/okay with you vs. what wouldn't be okay?), "an Apple device" (as I mentioned, many, many companies will be entering this market), "stored in your iPhone Health app" (just one option), "iCloud" (Apple only, though presumed for iOS).

So it more or less sounds like you're saying that you'll trust Apple with personal bio and medical data about yourself.  I guess it depends on what your definition of "basic" is, but even then how do we determine what is and is not okay in general?  These will be huge societal and legal questions to sort out in the next few years, regardless of the personal preferences of you or I, and individual trust or non-trust in each company.

- Would you feel just as open and trusting of wearing a google device that recorded your biometrics?  
- How about a generic android-based device manufactured by a random Chinese manufacturer with a name that we don't immediately recognize?  
- Why or why not?  

There are a lot of questions that we're going to deal with, both as a society/legally, and as consumers making educated decisions.  Again, medical data has already been deemed by our culture at large to be important enough to regulate.  This is factual, and says a lot about our society at large, empirically.

The Jawbone story is more or less what I referred to above as "geeks impressing geeks".  It's cute and fun, but not important data, and there are already amazing earthquake sensors that can tell scientists and researchers exactly how much movement there was in different areas and the likelihood of being awakened.  All without compromising millions of individuals by tracking sleep habits and sending that data to unregulated data-hungry corporations.

I am interested in your answers and opinions on this, even though I was a little surprised by your answer.

1) I'm concerned about hackers in other countries stealing my identity more than I am about Google trying to target ads toward me.

2) As simplistic as the Jawbone earthquake data is I see it from an anthropological or sociological point of view...

Take migration patterns, for example. We all know these exist, right? But there was a time not to long ago when we didn't know this. After we discovered many migratory birds with arrows in them from Africa that died in Europe we finally started putting it together. The most famous of these is pfeilstorch in Germany. Even Samuel Johnson wrote in the 18th century that he believed birds would hibernate under the mud in rivers and lakes during the winter months. The idea of them flying thousands of miles every year was just absurd.

And then we have tracking of herds to find out more about their habits. We also track how cars drive on roads to learn which roads need to be wider, which intersections need to be altered, and all sorts of other information to make driving safer and more efficient. So why can't we have a large scale understand of other habits that could help benefit mankind? I really can't wait until my iPhone tells me I should make an appointment with my primary care physician in much the same way my car has a service engine light; and then when i go in there he'll have a synopsis of the information of my biometrics to see where negatives occurred. This is efficient and potentially life saving. That's what I want.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
 I really can't wait until my iPhone tells me I should make an appointment with my primary care physician in much the same way my car has a service engine light; and then when i go in there he'll have a synopsis of the information of my biometrics to see where negatives occurred. This is efficient and potentially life saving. That's what I want.

 

Will you want your life saved aged 110 when your body is riddled with pain and you are tired of life and want to go to sleep and not wake up?

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #51 of 59
If the iWatch goes down the road a lot of you are suggesting, it will be the absolute death of the Apple brand in the under-100 demographic. We had the report a while back that Apple products weren't "cool" for the younger generation any more. That was pretty questionable, given sales, but if the iWatch turns out to be the kind of medical device you guys are talking about, before long if you're seen with an iPhone in one hand, you might as well be carrying a package of Depends Diapers in the other. Seriously, this will destroy their cachet among the people who spend money on tech. Extremely bad idea!
post #52 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Will you want your life saved aged 110 when your body is riddled with pain and you are tired of life and want to go to sleep and not wake up?

That would be by today's standards. When I get that age, especially with all these advancements it amy be very different then. Hopefully the singularity will be ready or perhaps I'll be able to harvest new body parts from 19th century Londoners before The Doctor foils my plans.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #53 of 59
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
Will you want your life saved aged 110.


Yes. And at 120, and at 130, and at 140. We’ll have at least a partial treatment for the degradation of telomere within my lifetime. I don’t plan to die of anything save for old age, but I want that to be old age.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #54 of 59
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) I'm concerned about hackers in other countries stealing my identity more than I am about Google trying to target ads toward me.

 

I wish everyone would stop focusing on ads.  Whether or not we see ads is irrelevant to the issues surrounding personal privacy.  I don't care if Google showed me targeted (NOT personalized) ads on every page I ever read, online and offline.  What matters, and what is borderline immoral, is the data collection that makes them more efficient at their delivery.

 

Ads are transient.  They're not damaging, other than they may distract you momentarily from your reading.

 

Data collection is not transient, it's permanent, and it grows with each year of each individual's life.  There is a constant (and constantly growing) chance that the data will be misused, abused, stolen or made public.  Look at how the insurance industries are edging into this data already.  Where are the lines going to be drawn?

 

Anyway, kind of getting off-topic, but it really bothers me when people conflate the issues of privacy and data mining with advertisements.

 

 

Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

2) As simplistic as the Jawbone earthquake data is I see it from an anthropological or sociological point of view...
 
I agree that this is neat stuff, from both anthropological and sociological standpoints.  Occasionally even valuable (tracking of disease migration, etc.).  What researchers (and us armchair researchers) need to consider is that the data needs to be anonymous - not tied to individuals.  That's trickier than it sounds, because data needs to be initially gathered at its source, where it is not typically anonymous.  On top of that, lots of pseudo-anonymous data can (and IS) de-anonymized by data miners.  Especially the huge ones that like to hide in the shadows, like Axciom, Lexis Nexus and their ilk. 
 
We also track how cars drive on roads to learn which roads need to be wider, which intersections need to be altered, and all sorts of other information to make driving safer and more efficient. 
 
This can all be gathered anonymously, and it should be.  It has been for decades, and technology has made it even easier to do so.  I'm a huge fan of technology, and the many ways it can benefit societies.  Care just needs to be given as to how technology is used.
 
I really can't wait until my iPhone tells me I should make an appointment with my primary care physician in much the same way my car has a service engine light; and then when i go in there he'll have a synopsis of the information of my biometrics to see where negatives occurred. This is efficient and potentially life saving. That's what I want.
 

Now you're scaring the crap out of me.  I certainly hope your opinion is not common among the masses!

 

An engine service light's data is localized.  It is not sent directly to your mechanic, nor your insurance company.  The data is not gathered and analyzed by large corporations (and governments).  That's not the way it sounds like this stuff is going to work.

 

If or when all data gathering, analysis (data/algorithms/etc) and notification can reside on the local device - not communicating AT ALL back with commercial organizations or data miners, then I would agree with you 100%, that would be an awesome tool.  Until then, no way!

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post #55 of 59
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Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

Now you're scaring the crap out of me.  I certainly hope your opinion is not common among the masses!

An engine service light's data is localized.  It is not sent directly to your mechanic, nor your insurance company.  The data is not gathered and analyzed by large corporations (and governments).  That's not the way it sounds like this stuff is going to work.

If or when all data gathering, analysis (data/algorithms/etc) and notification can reside on the local device - not communicating AT ALL back with commercial organizations or data miners, then I would agree with you 100%, that would be an awesome tool.  Until then, no way!

I made no comment about it being sent to anyone else. I mentioned it letting you know and then you taking that info to your physician by choice the way you get a check engine light on your car and you take your car to a mechanic who then plugs into your car's OBD port to get an analysis.


PS: I have an Automatic in my car and I'm well aware that al the data is sent to their server. Of all the things regarding internet and security in my life that is the least of them.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I made no comment about it being sent to anyone else.


Okay, fine, sort of. You said: "some basic biometrics being recorded by an Apple device that then gets stored in your iPhone's Health app and synced with iCloud", and then followed that with "I really can't wait until my iPhone tells me I should make an appointment with my primary care physician in much the same way my car has a service engine light; and then when i go in there he'll have a synopsis of the information of my biometrics..."

So technically, they weren't in the same breath, but you can see why I might interpret what you said as implying that the data is sent to someone other than your doctor. In that context, you can also see why "he'll have a synopsis" sounds like it's already in his possession, rather than you'll give it to him when you arrive. But it could of course be interpreted either way.

More importantly than what you said or implied, is that from all appearances so far, it appears HealthKit and HomeKit data will indeed send/sync some very, very personal data in the cloud. It's seems pretty unlikely that Apple wouldn't have access to that data, but if anyone can pull off a solution that allows data to be fully protected and under the control of the end user only, it will be Apple. At this time, I'm not aware of user data Apple stores in the cloud that they don't have access to, but I'll hold final judgement until we see what the actual solution(s) look like, which should be soon.

Quote:

PS: I have an Automatic in my car and I'm well aware that al the data is sent to their server. Of all the things regarding internet and security in my life that is the least of them.

I've been aware of this kind of capability for a while now, but I was unfamiliar with this brand name; you can imagine how I thought the searches would come up! But it did actually come up right away.

Some of the features require that tie to the internet (dialing 911, which could be useful in an emergency), but most of it doesn't. If this was a device that I could hook into my car to help analyze this kind of data without sending any of it (especially any physical location tracking data) back to the mother ship, I would definitely consider it. But it doesn't look like they allow it to work that way, or do they? It may not be critical to you, personally, but you should be aware that even without associated GPS data, distance/start/stop data from a known location is more or less trackable to an actual physical route. It's very cool computer science, but once again, misleading to most consumers that haven't a clue about data analysis and what data they're actually giving up.

It's sad to me that it seems like you've completely given in to a surveil-me-24/7 mentality, but at least I'm fairly confident that you, personally, are not participating without understanding what data you're sending to various companies. That's not the case for the average consumer.
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post #57 of 59
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

PS: I have an Automatic in my car and I'm well aware that al the data is sent to their server. Of all the things regarding internet and security in my life that is the least of them.

 

Oh, and if there's one thing everyone should be concerned with regarding data mining, it's location tracking.  If you think about what kind of data could be easily abused in bad ways, knowing your travel patterns is near the top of the list!  The thing is, there are many different ways this kind of data can be built, but I'm not going down that path today, have other stuff I need to do.

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post #58 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post
'Phosphorus eh? Better keep water well away from that then!

 

Maybe you're thinking of Potassium? It reacts violently in water.

 

You want to keep Phosphurus away from oxygen.

post #59 of 59
Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
 

Commenter "leecbaker" suggested that the addition of a barometric pressure sensor to the "iPhone 6" could allow for . . . ,

and potentially helping to measure users' breathing rates.

 

He'd have to explain to me how that would work . . . 
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