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LA Unified School District suspends iPad deal, faces accusations that officials had close ties... - Page 2

post #41 of 86
This was a bad idea from the beginning. Whether it was a deal with Apple, Microsoft, or Google, it was bound to have major issues. As was already said, the tech/environment just isn't there yet.

In addition, in a district that has been struggling with major budget cuts in the past few years, it seems irresponsible for them to commit to just a huge and expensive project in an emerging, untested field. Too lazy to check, but I don't recall hearing anything about a small rollout as a pilot to determine feasibility. Seems like issues like the ones mentioned in the article would have been uncovered during a proper pilot program, without having to invest so much money.

This is a case of good ol' fashioned incompetence and mismanagement, not back-room deals and corruption.

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Windows Tablet, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 Linux HTPC

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Windows Tablet, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 Linux HTPC

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

Reply
post #42 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWilliams87 View Post
 

Well then you could use that same argument everywhere. A pitchfork was good enough for 1870s farmers, and it's good enough now. The only difference is my example is clearly absurd because we see the advances modern farming like the combined harvester and genetic engineering of crops. There isn't an alternative scenario with schooling; all we see is chalk and blackboard so it's easy to dismiss potential advances in education because they don't exist and we can't examine benefits.

 

I'm not a farmer, but I have watched enough modern marvels on the history channel to know that farming today is obviously vastly superior, compared to previous centuries. I don't feel that farming is entirely comparable to education though, because education depends on the student's ability to learn and to absorb information. 

 

I believe that having good teachers is more important than any technological gadgets and gizmos. And I also believe that students should master a few essential, non technological skills, before they are allowed to utilize technology. A dummy using a smartphone is still a dummy at the end of the day.

post #43 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
 

 

Don't know why, but it looks like they didn't. I'm sure it came down to money.

Vendors supply what customers ask for, odds are the district was focused on the pad and didn't examine or request a keyboard and this is an after the fact added issue.

post #44 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

I believe that having good teachers is more important than any technological gadgets and gizmos. And I also believe that students should master a few essential, non technological skills, before they are allowed to utilize technology. 

 

I don't often agree with you but you hit the nail on the head! Get good teachers and pay them accordingly to retain them.

post #45 of 86
This has zero to do with technology or the relative merits of one platform over another. It's all politics and power struggle. Nobody is really pointing a finger here at any documented wrongdoing. It's purely fabricated appearance level bs. Read between the lines and you'll see that it's really backlash to ensure that the bureaucrats who felt cut out of the decision making process want to reinsert themselves so they feel important and can justify their inflated salaries and egos.

I'll go back to my assertion that the least of the concerns that are faced by our educational system is technology tools and toys. These will come and go over time but the value of a good quality, dedicated, and selfless teacher is timeless. Unfortunately the bureaucracy and politics and lack of parental accountability have flushed most of the caring and quality educators from the system and teachers are surrogate parents and babysitters for the masses of purposeless youth that get plumbed through the infrastructure each day.

Plus, why should kids have iPads? The iPad is a wonderful, creative, and immersive learning tool and is actually fun to use. Students should be hardened and tempered to the reality of their soul sucking future of taking direction from The Man and slogging through decades of depressing and meaningless work and paying taxes so fat cat politicians can attend taxpayer paid junkets to the Caribbean. Using Windows PCs and brain dead Chromebooks ideally prepares them for their miserable, soulless, mechanical future, knowing that if all else fails and they acquire no marketable skills they can still be a teacher, politician, school administrator, or work for Samsung.
post #46 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post

This has zero to do with technology or the relative merits of one platform over another. It's all politics and power struggle. Nobody is really pointing a finger here at any documented wrongdoing. It's purely fabricated appearance level bs. Read between the lines and you'll see that it's really backlash to ensure that the bureaucrats who felt cut out of the decision making process want to reinsert themselves so they feel important and can justify their inflated salaries and egos.
http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-lausd-ipads-20140822-story.html#page=1
The DA hasn't seen anything that needs pursuing.
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post #47 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWilliams87 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post

 
Do you really think private schools would be better managed or that students would get a better education? Of course some students would but those are already in private schools financed by the 1%'ers. Free public schools in the US are guaranteed by our constitution but as usual are not supported with the kind of assistance they need. It starts with parents who need to do the majority of parenting instead of expecting public schools to do the parenting. Remember, private schools can expel students for any reason and at any time. They aren't held to the same rules and regulations public schools are. As with any public institution, there will be problems, corruption, and things just won't work. This happens in private institutions and corporations as well but we don't always hear about them. As for LA students not being able to read or write, here's the 2013 STAR CST test results. This district has over 400K students. Please compare them to a school district near you.

[URL=http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2013/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true
Apple can choose not to sell iPads to anyone "for any reason and at any time", but they have an economic incentive to sell to everyone. Public schools, on the other hand, profits via taxation (you can't choose not to give them money), thus have no such incentive.

It's not quite as simple as that ...

In California, public schools are funded, mainly, by property taxes paid by home owners, and federal tax redistributions based on "butts in the chairs".

In many poorer districts the property tax base is low because a lot of people rent apartments, live in trailer parks, etc.

Add to that the collapse of the housing market where districts are receiving less property tax income because of unoccupied houses (some abandoned) and lower assessment values,

Then there's things like this: I don't know if it's still true (but suspect it is) -- when we lived in Chicagland, it was common practice for Cook County homeowners to challenge their property taxes and have an assessor investigate to lower the taxes for a fee (bribe).

We bought our first home for $18,000 (1968) in McHenry County -- but paid more property taxes than friends with $80,000 houses in Cook County.
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post #48 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post
 

 

Could care less about Chromebooks. I was talking about the Surface.

post #49 of 86
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post
Of course if it's true it's to be condemned.

 

How dare Apple want to help people get the best technology, of course.

 

Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post
Theres nothing inherently wrong with keeping the technology base diversified...

 

When the only other option on the market is Windows 8, I think it’s against the Geneva Convention to want to keep it diversified.

 

Originally Posted by Torrid Foster View Post

It's perfectly okay if Apple broke the law because they need to because Microsoft did it so its okay.

 

Yeah, you know that’s not what we’re saying.

 

Originally Posted by joshuarayer View Post
Windows was the chosen OS to put into schools because of it being cheaper than Apple computers. Especially 20 years ago.

 

Completely and utterly wrong, but enjoy that fantasy.

 

Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Take your "reasonably priced keyboards" and multiply that by the number of students involved and you'll see that adds up quickly.

 

Exactly. So maybe the children should learn how to use a TOUCHSCREEN since that’s the game-changing future of technology to them what mouse+keyboard was to most of us.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #50 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Could care less about Chromebooks. I was talking about the Surface.

The linked article wasn't about Chromebooks, they simply got a brief mention. It's safe to read it.
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-ipads-schools-20140101-story.html#page=1
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post #51 of 86
(Meh. Forget it).
post #52 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Your post was.

Also, you might care to tell someone what it's about before asking them to read something.

I actually quoted the first paragraph for you. You didn't notice several different devices got a mention, and that the article would concern the high costs of LA's program compared to some other districts?
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post #53 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

We are in Illinois, our kids will be getting their own iPads from the school (K-12) next week.
Since the article is about potential corruption in the LA schools, I'll assume that you meant that Illinois handing out iPads to your goats is equally corrupt.  Not that Illinois is known for corruption or anything.
Rod Blagojevich
George Ryan
Dan Walker
Otto Kerner
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/illinois-governors-in-pri_n_2581182.html

Ahh ... ChicagoLand ...

When we lived there, the state Supreme Court could not field a quorum -- because over half the members were in jail!

Then there was Paul Powell, Illinois Secretary of State ... He entered Illinois politics as a poorer middle class individual. After several decades of Public Service, at <= $30,000 -- he died leaving an estate worth $millions -- including $800,00 in cash in several shoeboxes ...

Quote:

12/01/2005 Paul Powell: The Illinois Democrat Who Died With $800,000 In His Shoebox

OK, OK, there was really more than just one shoebox. I'll let Seth explain:

Paul Powell was born in Vienna, Illinois on January 21, 1902. He was a big wheel in the Illinois Democratic Party since WWII. Eventually, he became Illinois Secretary of State during the same year I was born, 1965. In 1966, his office was investigated for corruption; he was exonerated, but his chief investigator was indicted for theft of state funds. He was still in office when he died in Rochester, Minnesota on October 10, 1970. Shortly thereafter, a shoebox full of money was found in his room at the St. Nicholas Hotel here in Springfield—the infamous cache.

The famous Paul Powell shoebox was actually more than one box, and not all were shoeboxes. There were also metal boxes, briefcases, and envelopes. This treasure trove—roughly $800,000 in cash—was discovered two days after he died, when Powell's staff and his estate executor gathered his belongings from the hotel room and storage area. The other, less famous findings included 49 cases of whiskey, 14 transistor radios, and two cases of creamed corn. This guy was prepared; for what, I don't know.

Outrage? Hardly. An excerpt from The Southern Illinoisan:

"We just assume politics is corrupt and a little bit of corruption is the cost of doing business," said Kent Redfield, a political scientist at the University of Illinois at Springfield. That was certainly the attitude toward former Secretary of State Paul Powell, owner of the mysterious cash-stuffed shoeboxes.

"Paul did a lot of good things for southern Illinois, including helping to build the university I work at," said Mike Lawrence, the director of the Paul Simon Public Policy Institute at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale.

So when those shoeboxes were found in Powell's home when he died in 1970, it raised some eyebrows but not much ire. "People were surprised about the amount of money," Lawrence said of the cache that neither Powell nor anyone else ever explained. "But there was sort of a sense if he gave us our share, what's wrong with him getting his share."

Powell never earned a state salary of more than $30,000 per year, yet in the last year of his life, his federal income tax return showed an income of more than $200,000. At his death his estate totaled $3.2 million, and, when settled in 1978, was worth $4.6 million, including nearly $1 million in racetrack stock.

My hometown of Belvidere, Illinois was heavily Republican (the newspaper was named the Belvidere Daily Republican) yet a number of folks would vote every election for Paul Powell for Illinois Secretary of State. They knew he was corrupt and wanted him in office when he was finally found out (obviously, he never was). I got my first drivers license in 1970 and I still remember my father making out the check to . . . well, let me make this a quiz:

Illinois Drivers License Bureau
Illinois Secretary of State's Office
Illinois Secretary of State Paul Powell
Paul Powell
That's right: "Paul Powell". Now are you surprised he ended up with $800,000 in those shoeboxes?

http://www.tommcmahon.net/2005/12/paul_powell_the.html
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post #54 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


It's not quite as simple as that ...

In California, public schools are funded, mainly, by property taxes paid by home owners, and federal tax redistributions based on "butts in the chairs".

In many poorer districts the property tax base is low because a lot of people rent apartments, live in trailer parks, etc.

Add to that the collapse of the housing market where districts are receiving less property tax income because of unoccupied houses (some abandoned) and lower assessment values,

Then there's things like this: I don't know if it's still true (but suspect it is) -- when we lived in Chicagland, it was common practice for Cook County homeowners to challenge their property taxes and have an assessor investigate to lower the taxes for a fee (bribe).

We bought our first home for $18,000 (1968) in McHenry County -- but paid more property taxes than friends with $80,000 houses in Cook County.

So what are you trying to say?

Paul Thurrott on iPad (2010): "Anyone who believes this thing is a game changer is a tool. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is."

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post #55 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuarayer View Post
 

 

Windows was the chosen OS to put into schools because of it being cheaper than Apple computers. Especially 20 years ago.

Especially when they gave it away (I was at one of those 'schools').   It was the long game of 'the first taste is free.'  Hook the kids, and 10 years later, take away 'free' and replace with 'credits' (buy the OS at volume cost/discount, and bet Server Integration services for free), and then take those away, and basically say, 'ask HP/Lenovo/Dell for discounts on the HW'.

post #56 of 86

I read this story about 3 month ago, why the rehash?

post #57 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWilliams87 View Post

 
What I find interesting is that the primary technology used to educate people around 1870 (when compulsory education was just being ratified across the U.S.) was the chalk and blackboard. Fast forward 150 years later, and it's still a chalk and blackboard. That's pathetic.

While I am a big fan of technology, I don't feel that technology is always a good thing. It depends.

Chalk and a blackboard was good enough for kids in 1870 and it's good enough for kids in 2014.

Too many kids today use technology as a crutch, to make up for their complete ignorance in other areas. Let the kids work out a math problem on a blackboard, not using any electronic aids. Let the damn kids learn how to write using a pen and paper. Let the damn kids learn how to spell without using autocorrect.

Likely, I'm the same age as you or, a little older -- 75 on Friday!

I'd throw out there, that it's more than just the tools ... the curriculum, the discipline, the dedication of the teachers ... Or the lack thereof.

IMO, the main thing that technology offers -- and which is not being exploited -- is that it can demand participation by the student.

We installed a 7 computer LAN of Apple ][ computers in Saratoga, CA High School in 1980 -- 2 students per computer.

It was an amazing thing to see ...

Instead of the student leaning back in his chair, bored, listening to a lecture, watching someone write on the blackboard, watching, slides, overheads, the TV, films -- or just looking out the window ...

The student leaned forward on the edge of his seat, and actively participated ... talking, asking/telling, sometimes laughing -- but all the while, learning ... participating ...


But, it takes a lot of dedication, planning, preparation and continued effort to make this type of a program a success ... You can't just dump a bunch of hardware and software and then walk away.

Marion Kenworthy was Vice Principal at Saratoga HS -- and she drove the success of the project -- every step of the way!

'Course it also helped that two of the students at Saratoga HS were my daughter and Gene Carter's daughter -- Gene was VP of Marketing at Apple Computer, Inc.


P.S. What'd you get me for my BDay? 1biggrin.gif
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post #58 of 86
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

There's a good principle: "Never ascribe to a conspiracy what can be explained equally well by stupidity."

And if a conspiracy is involved, I'd suspect digital textbook provider Pearson, with all the dubious ethics of most textbook publishers and skilled at manipulating school officials, rather than Apple, whose ties to schools have been weakening for over two decades.

 

Bingo!  At least someone here knows Pearson.

 

If there are any ethics violations to be found, Pearson should be at the head of the list of all suspects.  They use all manner of pressure, subterfuge and political shenanigans to weasel their way into school district pocketbooks.  

 

And to a pet peeve of my own, they weasel their way into children's personal information as well:

 

Pearson's Creepy Vision For the Future of Education Confirms ...

 

Seriously, if you have kids, read this article.

No Matte == No Sale :-(
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post #59 of 86
Here is as thorough a report as any I'm aware of on how Apple and Peason got together and how the bidding process was done. It's does sound as tho Apple and Pearson may already have been selected to provide the services and hardware before the bids were even requested.

http://www.scpr.org/blogs/education/2014/08/25/17192/how-did-la-schools-decide-on-ipad-software-it-star/

A pretty revealing read.
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post #60 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Are there instances of Chromebooks being deployed and not working? I must admit I'm a bit nervous about Chromebooks (and the upcoming Windows competitors) taking share from iPad in education, mostly because of the built in keyboard. I hope Apple doesn't let their lead in education slip away.

 

The special $750 student macbook is the answer.  Buy in bulk maybe Apple will give another 10% discount.

post #61 of 86
How much do you want to bet that Google/Microsoft/Samsung/etc are behind this. I would look into who has recently funded the teachers union.
post #62 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWilliams87 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's not quite as simple as that ...


In California, public schools are funded, mainly, by property taxes paid by home owners, and federal tax redistributions based on "butts in the chairs".


In many poorer districts the property tax base is low because a lot of people rent apartments, live in trailer parks, etc.


Add to that the collapse of the housing market where districts are receiving less property tax income because of unoccupied houses (some abandoned) and lower assessment values,


Then there's things like this: I don't know if it's still true (but suspect it is) -- when we lived in Chicagland, it was common practice for Cook County homeowners to challenge their property taxes and have an assessor investigate to lower the taxes for a fee (bribe).


We bought our first home for $18,000 (1968) in McHenry County -- but paid more property taxes than friends with $80,000 houses in Cook County.
So what are you trying to say?


I was replying to your:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWilliams87 View Post

Apple can choose not to sell iPads to anyone "for any reason and at any time", but they have an economic incentive to sell to everyone. Public schools, on the other hand, profits via taxation (you can't choose not to give them money), thus have no such incentive.

What I was trying to get across was that Public schools are not all the same nor do they have equal access to the tax base.

Consider these:

Upper middle-class suburban -- fewer students per home, yet they pay high property taxes on medium-high priced houses.

Lower middle-class urban - more students per family, yet they pay little or no property taxes because they live in apartments.

In the first case, the school district has lots of money to provide for fewer students *

In the second case, the school district has less money to provide for more students.

* I grew up in Pasadena, CA -- there were 18 homes on our block with 9 school children in 5 of the houses. That means that 13 of the families were helping to pay for the cost of education of children of 5 families -- with no direct benefit to themselves.

I am no fan of student redistribution (bussing) or income (tax) redistribution -- these have been unsuccessful.


I do believe that we need to do something to improve our education system -- but throwing money or technology at the problem is not a sufficient solution.
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post #63 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Many kids today are a bunch of illiterate, little monkeys. Obnoxious, ignorant creatures who lack basic fundamental skills in many areas.

 

Sorry, I just don't believe you have fathered a statistically significant enough proportion of the kids for that to be generally true.

post #64 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You're aware that hundreds of models of fully functional, very reasonably priced keyboards are available for the iPad, right? /roll-eyes

I believe @AWilliams87 was praising Microsoft for branding their optional keyboard so that it gave the illusion of being "integrated". Odd how that my Logitech iPad Air keyboard also snaps on with magnets, matches the aesthetic of my iPad, and is fully supported by iOS, but still doesn't get brownie points because its isn't Apple-branded.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #65 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You're aware that hundreds of models of fully functional, very reasonably priced keyboards are available for the iPad, right? /roll-eyes


I believe @AWilliams87 was praising Microsoft for branding their optional keyboard so that it gave the illusion of being "integrated". Odd how that my Logitech iPad Air keyboard also snaps on with magnets, matches the aesthetic of my iPad, and is fully supported by iOS, but still doesn't get brownie points because its isn't Apple-branded.

 



If he had actually said that, it would have made a lot more sense. But what he said was: "This (a keyboard) is something that the iPad should of had [sic]".
post #66 of 86

I can only assume that Customer support for all level of users was available, Apple would not sign a contract and then not back it up - I do believe that.

User (school district) - project running over budget, etc - knee jerk reaction by school district to cover their inability to run the school district as a business that it is.

Apple should not be held responsible for functional issues of the school district.

Keyboard - I would not do serious production work from my iPad - a user friendly keyboard would be a requirement.

Apps targeted to school diversity would be smart, but then the school district could save the tax payers money if uniform processes & practices would be mirrored in all schools.

The state is or will be into bankruptcy?

Starting to build a new platform will again use resources that could well be spent elsewhere.

 

Sounds like a grudge match to me - will be waiting to see how the non Apple platform performs.

post #67 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I was replying to your:
What I was trying to get across was that Public schools are not all the same nor do they have equal access to the tax base.

Consider these:

Upper middle-class suburban -- fewer students per home, yet they pay high property taxes on medium-high priced houses.

Lower middle-class urban - more students per family, yet they pay little or no property taxes because they live in apartments.

In the first case, the school district has lots of money to provide for fewer students *

In the second case, the school district has less money to provide for more students.

* I grew up in Pasadena, CA -- there were 18 homes on our block with 9 school children in 5 of the houses. That means that 13 of the families were helping to pay for the cost of education of children of 5 families -- with no direct benefit to themselves.

I am no fan of student redistribution (bussing) or income (tax) redistribution -- these have been unsuccessful.


I do believe that we need to do something to improve our education system -- but throwing money or technology at the problem is not a sufficient solution.

But my argument was that public schools profits from taxation, thus certain economic incentives don't exist for them. It really doesn't matter if some school districts get more tax money than others.


Edited by AWilliams87 - 8/26/14 at 12:48pm

Paul Thurrott on iPad (2010): "Anyone who believes this thing is a game changer is a tool. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is."

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post #68 of 86

At this point, I hope Apple sues the LA school district for 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWilliams87 View Post
 

But my argument was that public schools profits from taxation, thus certain economic incentives don't exist for them. It really doesn't matter if some school districts get more tax money than others.

 

Government is inherently not competitive. It quashes competition and feeds corruption. Like any creation involving people, it ultimately benefits itself as people are self-interested. At least with competition, inefficient and corrupt businesses fail and are replaced.

 

The only things the Federal government should be responsible for are those defined and restricted in the Constitution.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #69 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 

At this point, I hope Apple sues the LA school district for 

 

Government is inherently not competitive. It quashes competition and feeds corruption. Like any creation involving people, it ultimately benefits itself as people are self-interested. At least with competition, inefficient and corrupt businesses fail and are replaced.

 

The only things the Federal government should be responsible for are those defined and restricted in the Constitution.

Yes, I agree. But Dick's response confused me. Schools not having "equal access to the tax base" doesn't really matter.

Paul Thurrott on iPad (2010): "Anyone who believes this thing is a game changer is a tool. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is."

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Paul Thurrott on iPad (2010): "Anyone who believes this thing is a game changer is a tool. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is."

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post #70 of 86

Very true since Apple have greater ecosystem to support school wide system!

Look at Window and Android devices. They still do not have ecosystem at all.

 

Remember! Dell debacle

 

"The device itself is a short-term thing," said Perris Supt. Greenberg. "New devices are always coming out."

That is the whole problem! They stick to with choices - Chromebook and other devices. They don’t see the whole ecosystem solution. 

 

Believe me as it will create more problem for teachers and students from Perris Union High School District. It will repeat history all over again.

 

Let us keep eyes on Perris Union HS as they will raise and waving with white flags.


Edited by JB88MacUser - 8/26/14 at 2:23pm
post #71 of 86
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Take your "reasonably priced keyboards" and multiply that by the number of students involved and you'll see that adds up quickly.

 

Exactly. So maybe the children should learn how to use a TOUCHSCREEN since that’s the game-changing future of technology to them what mouse+keyboard was to most of us.

 

A touchscreen is never going to eliminate the keyboard. In fact, the more people use a touchscreen for work, the more they realize how much they need a keyboard.

post #72 of 86
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
A touchscreen is never going to eliminate the keyboard. In fact, the more people use a touchscreen for work, the more they realize how much they need a keyboard.

 

And a screen will never replace blinkenlights¡

 

They’ve already replaced keyboards and mice on phones and tablets.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #73 of 86
Note that suspend does not mean cancel or terminate. Apple makes the best and most effective tablets. The contract will resume.
post #74 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Public schools are a mismanaged disaster. Shut them all down and get private companies in there to compete for students instead.

Making them private would make them unaccountable. They'd do the same thing as this but you wouldn't hear about it. Private companies selling PCs bundle Windows with every one and had it not been for the government, Internet Explorer would have remained the most dominant web browser, holding back web standards. In a competitive utopia, there would be schools offering Apple products and schools offering Windows products and schools offering Android products and every combination of every other product so you'd have a thousand schools to choose from all driving down costs of education and the best teachers everywhere.

That's just a fantasy and it's another example of turning back time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_education_in_the_United_States#Growth_of_public_schools

"The school system remained largely private and unorganized until the 1840s. Public schools were always under local control, with no federal role, and little state role. The 1840 census indicated that of the 3.68 million children between the ages of five and fifteen, about 55% attended primary schools and academies."

It marginalizes the poor and allows companies to set their own agenda be it promotion of religious views, promotion of certain genders, sexualities or races and they'd take bribes and incentives from wherever they wanted. It didn't work before, which is why it's not popular now.

Plus, they're not excluding Apple, they are responding to feedback about their iPad rollout:

"under the recently expanded approach, 18,000 laptops are being purchased. Deasy wrote that he expects Apple and Pearson to be among the bidders in the new process."

If a 10" iPad is too small, I guess an 11" Air will be too leaving their 13" $999 Air to compete with ~$200 Chromebooks. We know that iPads aren't as productive as Macs and general laptops so this shouldn't be a surprise. Even copying and pasting is laborious on tablets especially if the text goes past the edge of the screen and then there's sending documents to staff or back home to continue on other devices.

Apple doesn't necessarily need a fitted keyboard but they need to sit someone with an iPad next to someone with a Macbook Air and make them both do productive tasks and whenever the person on the iPad is going too slow or hitting a hurdle, sort it out. There's no reason a touch device can't be as efficient as a laptop. The laptop's advantage is simply down to the touchpad mapping to a ratio of the screen dimensions with the precision of a pixel and having fixed keys that perform precise actions every time. This can be replicated without a physical trackpad and keyboard with a 3D gesture zone above the table. Attaching a keyboard is the wrong way to go because it forces one tablet orientation.

They could redesign the smart cover to not fold up the way it does. That only allows you to use landscape anyway. It can fold up in a way to hold an iPad in landscape or portrait and it can have an area that tracks gestures. They'd need a whole new UI mechanism beside a mouse pointer because it would use multi-touch.

Until they figure this out, laptops will always be preferred for productivity. iPads are better for younger children though as they can read books and their attention is held better with interactive software.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple || 
When I was a kid, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far away, there was one Apple ][ machine in the classroom, that was shared by 35 students!

You're recommending what made you turn out this way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple || 
Let the damn parents provide for their children. And then they are free to buy whatever they please.

Kids shouldn't suffer because of the inability or unwillingness of their parents to buy them technology.
post #75 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

They’ve already replaced keyboards and mice on phones and tablets.

 

One more time for those who didn't get it the first time:

 

"A touchscreen is never going to eliminate the keyboard. In fact, the more people use a touchscreen for work, the more they realize how much they need a keyboard."

 

Your rebuttal only backs up what I wrote. Thanks!  

post #76 of 86
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Your rebuttal only backs up what I wrote. Thanks!  

 

So you’re illiterate?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #77 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So you’re illiterate?

 

No, but I think you read things incorrectly.

post #78 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

And a screen will never replace blinkenlights¡

 

They’ve already replaced keyboards and mice on phones and tablets.

True but I am no where near as fast as when I'm working with a physical keyboard, phone included, I am almost three time as fast when using a BlackBerry keyboard for instance. Not just faster, more proficient but it's also a lot more comfortable, I would never write a program using a virtual keyboard for instance. Students need to learn how to touch type using a mechanical keyboard before moving onto tablets. Not to say an iPad doesn't make a good learning tool, just also needs a keyboard.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #79 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Many kids today are a bunch of illiterate, little monkeys. Obnoxious, ignorant creatures who lack basic fundamental skills in many areas. The US educational system is pretty pathetic, compared to many other countries in the world. American students are dumb, and they are just getting dumber. An idiocracy type of society is what these kids will end up producing.

I agree with SpamSandwich. Students and their families should be paying for their own computers.

When I was a kid, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far away, there was one Apple ][ machine in the classroom, that was shared by 35 students!

If every student wants their own computer, then don't those kids have something called parents? Let the damn parents provide for their children. And then they are free to buy whatever they please.

Take head out of rectum. The iPad replaces text books, a school expense. And we certainly don't, and shouldn't, expect kids to pay for their own textbooks. This is such a nonissue.
post #80 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


There is no right to an education in the US Constitution.

http://www.cato.org/blog/education-constitution

You may be thinking of your own state's constitution.

I read what you responded to there, and I don't see how it matters. A significant portion of school funding comes from state and local sources. I also kind of disagree with Dick on the apartment thing, as renters do facilitate the payment of property tax. In some municipalities (LA is one of them) landlords are allowed to include certain surcharges to reclaim various per unit fees. The downside to areas with a high concentration of apartments is that you typically have a smaller tax base relative to the population in that area.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 

At this point, I hope Apple sues the LA school district for 

 

Government is inherently not competitive. It quashes competition and feeds corruption. Like any creation involving people, it ultimately benefits itself as people are self-interested. At least with competition, inefficient and corrupt businesses fail and are replaced.

 

The only things the Federal government should be responsible for are those defined and restricted in the Constitution.


You don't know that they broke any contracts. Even if they did, imagine the PR disaster. I don't think any highly visible company with competent management would consider that option.

 

The civil servant mentality has its problems, but these often aren't provided for by privatization. You seem to have forgotten Enron and energy trading. Free market principles work well when it's possible to allow specific businesses to fail without destroying infrastructure which has been deemed necessary. I don't know how you would do that in the case of schools. Homeschooling  probably works for some children.

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