or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Rumor: Apple to enter mobile payment space with NFC-enabled 'iPhone 6'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Rumor: Apple to enter mobile payment space with NFC-enabled 'iPhone 6'

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 
Near-field communications chips have been rumored to become part of the iPhone lineup for years, but this year's anticipated "iPhone 6" may see Apple finally take the plunge, according to a new report.

Touch ID


Citing unnamed "sources familiar with the matter," Wired reported on Thursday that an NFC chip capable of mobile payments will be "one of the hallmark features" of Apple's next-generation iPhone, which is expected to debut on Sept. 9. Details on how the system might work were not relayed, though it's speculated that Apple would leverage its Touch ID fingerprint sensing technology, along with a massive collection of active iTunes accounts, to make its e-wallet service stand out.

The rumor also comes as AppleInsider discovered a new patent application earlier Thursday that described using an NFC chip to allow inductive, cordless charging on mobile devices, like an iPhone or even a mythical "iWatch." The filing details how a device could make use of an NFC antennae to double as an inductor for charging, negating the need to duplicate any hardware.

Thursday's report isn't the first to suggest that Apple might adopt NFC technology in its next iPhone. Earlier this month, a leaked schematic claimed to be from the "iPhone 6" suggested that an NFC chip could be included inside the device. Similar conclusions were drawn from a leaked part that surfaced in July.

Apple has also filed for patents that describe mobile payment systems utilizing NFC RFID technology. But to date, the company has relied on Bluetooth and Wi-Fi for short-range wireless functions, most notably with the company's proprietary combination of the two, dubbed iBeacon.

Rumors of NFC functionality in a future iPhone have persisted for years, and seem to appear leading up to just about every new handset launch. And though there have been a multitude of NFC-capable smartphones on the market for years, has never been an Apple product with NFC functionality.

One rumor that surfaced this summer claimed that Apple was accelerating work on a mobile payments system that could be ready by this fall, launching as part of the "iPhone 6." That report claimed that Apple was in talks with partner companies, including Visa, in an effort to debut its own e-wallet platform.

But Apple's reluctance to embrace NFC thus far has led some to speculate that the company could create a mobile payments system that relies on the established Wi-Fi/Bluetooth combination of iBeacon, which would be capable on existing iPhone models, and presumably as well on the anticipated "iPhone 6." One Apple patent filing even describes in great detail a system using Bluetooth and Wi-Fi to offer mobile payments.
post #2 of 43
Since modern urban environments are bathed in radio signals, perhaps the iPhone or iBand may use any of the stray signals as a power source.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #3 of 43

Thank goodness if this turns out to be legit. NFC and a 5.5" iPhone with the new iOS8 is going to be a amazing smart device. 

post #4 of 43

What can NFC do that iBeacon and BlueTooth can't?

post #5 of 43
If Apple does adopt NFC for the iPhone, I would think they also include it in an iWatch and put hooks in iOS 8 to securely communicate with iDevices. That way you have a much larger installed base that could use the new feature if users buy iWatches. You can get the bill at the register, approve on your watch, and be on your way. Now if a touch fingerprint sensor is also included on the iWatch, it would be extremely secure and convenient.
post #6 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphMouth View Post
 

What can NFC do that iBeacon and BlueTooth can't?


That's exactly what I thought. Just a few years ago it was said that NFC is lame and only Samsung/Android can do something stupid like this. Apple will come up with a better solution. I seriously thought there would be something even more sophisticated. Maybe not.

post #7 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphMouth View Post
 

What can NFC do that iBeacon and BlueTooth can't?

Actually be used in places since it's already a standard and adopted. iBeacon, not so much. Plus, almost all electronics now days have NFC in them for easier pairing. 

post #8 of 43

I've long thought (and said here) that I expect a wallet solution on Sept 9.  However, I'm just not convinced that NFC is the answer.  I believe iBeacons is the way forward.

post #9 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacApfel View Post
 


That's exactly what I thought. Just a few years ago it was said that NFC is lame and only Samsung/Android can do something stupid like this. Apple will come up with a better solution. I seriously thought there would be something even more sophisticated. Maybe not.

 

Umm, no. Other countries are expanding NFC rapidly in this day and age. 

NTT DoCoMo to Enhance the NFC Experience in Japan with Gemalto

http://letstalkpayments.com/ntt-docomo-enhance-nfc-experience-japan-gemalto/

 

Gemalto, which provides popular digital security services, recently announced that NTT DoCoMo has opted for its mobile NFC services. NTT DoCoMo is the No. 1 mobile operator in Japan, with more than 63 million subscribers. Gemalto will be providing NTT DoCoMo with two different kinds of services providing end-to-end solutions.

NTT DoCoMo will be getting Gemalto’s Allynis Trusted Service Management (TSM) service and its UpTeq NFC UICC embedding for both SIM and contactless applications, which together will help the Japanese operator develop contactless services such as mobile payments, loyalty programs, e-ticketing and access control. Gemalto’s offerings will help NTT DoCoMo attain a higher level of security for NFC deployments and effectively manage sensitive data.

Gemalto’s UpTeq NFC UICC provides scalable management capacity. It is ideal for enabling NFC phones to access services with faster processing and in a more secure manner.

“Japan has the world’s largest contactless infrastructure, so end consumers are already familiar with waving their mobile phone to enjoy contactless services,” said Michael Au, president of South Asia and Japan at Gemalto. “The NFC functionality builds on the UpTeq LTE card that NTT DoCoMo has already started to seed the market with, and will enable them to offer their customers an enhanced NFC experience.”

NTT DoCoMo has already unveiled some prominent initiatives regarding mobile payments. Last year, the operator and MasterCard unveiled  ID/PayPass – branded payments via DoCoMo’s ID mobile credit payment system. Payment with ID/PayPass was made available to DoCoMo subscribers who used smartphones equipped with an NFC contactless chip. The ID/PayPass payment feature uses PayPal technology deployed by MasterCard via contactless IC chips. NTT DoCoMo has also founded a mobile wallet service in Japan, called Osaifu-Keitai. Expect the company to look to use Gemalto’s technology to expand the service.

Gemalto is also making waves in the area of mobile payments through its mobile NFC services. Earlier this year, China Telecom used Gemalto’s UpTeq Multi Tenant NFC SIM to commercially roll out contactless services. China Telecom also uses Gemalto’s LTE management software embedded in the SIM to provide NFC services to subscribers. Earlier this year, Jetco, an ATM network, opted for Gemalto’s LinqUs TSM software platform to deploy NFC payment services across Hong Kong and Macau.

post #10 of 43
Several people saying this. I'd be really shocked if that actually happened.
post #11 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

Several people saying this. I'd be really shocked if that actually happened.

Prepare to be shocked. 

post #12 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post
 

I've long thought (and said here) that I expect a wallet solution on Sept 9.  However, I'm just not convinced that NFC is the answer.  I believe iBeacons is the way forward.


Well suppose you are a international financial institution like Mastercard, and you woud like to make a person to person payment app on smartphones.  Given the worldwide marketshare of roughly 80% for Android and 20% for iOS, you would have 64% Android-Android payments, 32% Android-iOS payments and only 4% iOS-iOS payments.  Or put in others words you don't want a proprietary iBeacon solution.

Most probably Apple got such a message form the large financial institutions and decided to go for NFC.

post #13 of 43
Not a fan of NFC at the moment: being able to electronically "pick my pocket" at a distance? No thank you. And while I can shield a passport or NFC credit/debit card I can't shield my phone (well I could but then it wouldn't be a phone!).

Granted in part that's due to it not being all that ubiquitous, maybe once there's more of an installed base it could make sense, but the security issue would have to be addressed and with a smartphone I expect that's possible by only enabling the NFC emitter when it's chosen (?), something not possible with a dumb card.
post #14 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by cropr View Post
 


Well suppose you are a international financial institution like Mastercard, and you woud like to make a person to person payment app on smartphones.  Given the worldwide marketshare of roughly 80% for Android and 20% for iOS, you would have 64% Android-Android payments, 32% Android-iOS payments and only 4% iOS-iOS payments.  Or put in others words you don't want a proprietary iBeacon solution.

Most probably Apple got such a message form the large financial institutions and decided to go for NFC.

Except iBeacon from what I can tell hasn't been enacted as proprietary.

post #15 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

Not a fan of NFC at the moment: being able to electronically "pick my pocket" at a distance? No thank you. And while I can shield a passport or NFC credit/debit card I can't shield my phone (well I could but then it wouldn't be a phone!).

Granted in part that's due to it not being all that ubiquitous, maybe once there's more of an installed base it could make sense, but the security issue would have to be addressed and with a smartphone I expect that's possible by only enabling the NFC emitter when it's chosen (?), something not possible with a dumb card.

Two things. If you consider less than an inch "at a distance" you need to rethink your definition. Also, to "pick my pocket" you have to enter either a pin number or in the highly likely case of the iPhone, TouchID. So no one is going to get anything.

post #16 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLance99 View Post
 

Two things. If you consider less than an inch "at a distance" you need to rethink your definition. Also, to "pick my pocket" you have to enter either a pin number or in the highly likely case of the iPhone, TouchID. So no one is going to get anything.

The potential thief simply tweaks the amplifier/transmitter  on his skimmer and that distance rises to a practical thieving distance. Take a look at the controversy over chipped passports.

 

And I acknowledged the possibility of a lockable NFC ability with a smartphone versus a card in my post.

 

So as usual, it will come down to implementation.

post #17 of 43
NFC will solve everything.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #18 of 43
If we do get a 5.5", iOS 8 with extensibility, AND NFC.. omg.. My thoughts of a note are gone..

Could care less about the S Pen.. !! ROFL!
post #19 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by cropr View Post
 


Well suppose you are a international financial institution like Mastercard, and you woud like to make a person to person payment app on smartphones.  Given the worldwide marketshare of roughly 80% for Android and 20% for iOS, you would have 64% Android-Android payments, 32% Android-iOS payments and only 4% iOS-iOS payments.  Or put in others words you don't want a proprietary iBeacon solution.

Most probably Apple got such a message form the large financial institutions and decided to go for NFC.

 

iBeacon was released from Apple as an open standard.. which is why Android devices with BLE can CURRENTLY use it as well. 

 

Apple would have made FaceTime open as well, but a patent troll slammed them and so far they've had no luck in getting it out the door and have to pay the troll just to use it.. I think their latest attempts to redesign FT to get around the patent are now being challenged..

 

Being 'open' and Apple isn't easy.. Apple isn't one of the most sued, Apple IS the most sued company by patent trolls.. PT's see Apple as a walking bank to fleece.. The Samsung patent dispute is just a side line suit to Apple that has been sensationalized by media because everyone likes a good drama / reality show. Great ratings! 

 

Would have been cool to see FaceTime on my HTC and to get iMessage's.. agh .. there goes that idea! iPhone 6 here I come! 

post #20 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf View Post

I've long thought (and said here) that I expect a wallet solution on Sept 9.  However, I'm just not convinced that NFC is the answer.  I believe iBeacons is the way forward.

Aren't beacons just a one way communication? Beacons announce themselves to anyone, and everyone within range. There's a reason why Apple went with the word.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

Not a fan of NFC at the moment: being able to electronically "pick my pocket" at a distance? No thank you. And while I can shield a passport or NFC credit/debit card I can't shield my phone (well I could but then it wouldn't be a phone!).

Granted in part that's due to it not being all that ubiquitous, maybe once there's more of an installed base it could make sense, but the security issue would have to be addressed and with a smartphone I expect that's possible by only enabling the NFC emitter when it's chosen (?), something not possible with a dumb card.

One would have to get close enough to actually pick your pocket in order to receive anything from NFC, plus it's not constantly transmitting. The user has to initiate a transmission.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Since modern urban environments are bathed in radio signals, perhaps the iPhone or iBand may use any of the stray signals as a power source.

 

Actually, I think ancient rural environments probably were, too. Am I correct in my understanding that the amount of radio activity we generate ourselves doesn't amount to a hill of beans compared to what occurs naturally?

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

Audio Engineer

V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

Reply

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

Audio Engineer

V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

Reply
post #23 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
...
Rumors of NFC functionality in a future iPhone have persisted for years, and seem to appear leading up to just about every new handset launch. And though there have been a multitude of NFC-capable smartphones on the market for years, has never been an Apple product with NFC functionality.
...
But Apple's reluctance to embrace NFC thus far has led some to speculate that the company could create a mobile payments system that relies on the established Wi-Fi/Bluetooth combination of iBeacon, which would be capable on existing iPhone models, and presumably as well on the anticipated "iPhone 6." One Apple patent filing even describes in great detail a system using Bluetooth and Wi-Fi to offer mobile payments.

 

So is NFC a rumor again this time?

post #24 of 43

Given that the major financial institutions have thrown their weight behind NFC, and NFC-enabled payment stations are starting to become more common at stores, this is almost certainly true. Especially since the USPTO just granted Apple a patent on a multifunctional NFC coil setup that also serves as a means of wirelessly charging a device via inductive charging.

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/08/28/apple-exploring-double-duty-nfc-inductive-charging-coil-for-smartwatches-mobile-phones

post #25 of 43
NFC is way over at the "Tired" end of the "Tired / Wired" spectrum.
And less-secure implementations can be hacked from a distance.
Maybe Apple has somehow linked Touch ID authentication with NFC.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by cropr View Post


Well suppose you are a international financial institution like Mastercard, and you woud like to make a person to person payment app on smartphones.  Given the worldwide marketshare of roughly 80% for Android and 20% for iOS, you would have 64% Android-Android payments, 32% Android-iOS payments and only 4% iOS-iOS payments.  Or put in others words you don't want a proprietary iBeacon solution.
Most probably Apple got such a message form the large financial institutions and decided to go for NFC.

More likely, Apple had to wait for a chip that also did a combination of things that included NFC, not just a NFC stand alone chip. Apple hasn't been the first to adopt any wireless tech except bluetooth itself. With good reason, first, and even second generation chips for everything from 802.11 standards to Bluetooth, to GSM and LTE all have been lackluster power-sucking solutions that work fine on desktops, and even some laptops, but in a smartphone you need absolute control over the power envelope, and most Android devices just don't give a care about it.

Apple likely had to get an aggreement with at least one phone carrier(NTT in Japan) and one payment system (eg MasterCard) before there was any practical reason to do this. Just putting a NFC chip in the device and letting developers screw around with it, isn't going to get it used properly. When it comes to payments, the last thing you want are third party e-wallets that get hacked (which jailbroken devices are targets for) because of weak software layers in the NFC stack.

Where I see NFC not being terribly useful for, but frequently gets mentioned are passive things that iBeacons are better for. NFC is unpowered, so to get a read off all the NFC devices you need to power them from far away using a transmitter. That just doesn't work in practice when NFC is only supposed to be used within 10cm.
post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Aren't beacons just a one way communication? Beacons announce themselves to anyone, and everyone within range. There's a reason why Apple went with the word.

 

I don't consider myself an expert on iBeacon but I'm really referring to Bluetooth LE.  iBeacon would be a part of that; I think I remember an Apple patent application using iBeacon as part of a wallet solution.  I could be wrong, again - I'm certainly not a BLE expert.

post #28 of 43
My best friend works at a major bank and said she has helped with this. They have been on a pretty tight deadline to get it done by end of summer.
post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphMouth View Post

What can NFC do that iBeacon and BlueTooth can't?

There is plenty of data out there with most of it being very digestible. I've stated the clear benefits more than a few time despite seeing comments like your and being told it's a dead-end tech for years.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #30 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

One would have to get close enough to actually pick your pocket in order to receive anything from NFC, plus it's not constantly transmitting. The user has to initiate a transmission.

Which seems like a perfect fit for Touch ID.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post
 

 

Actually, I think ancient rural environments probably were, too. Am I correct in my understanding that the amount of radio activity we generate ourselves doesn't amount to a hill of beans compared to what occurs naturally?

 

"...But this is our hill, and these are our beans."

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #32 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorin Schultz View Post

Actually, I think ancient rural environments probably were, too. Am I correct in my understanding that the amount of radio activity we generate ourselves doesn't amount to a hill of beans compared to what occurs naturally?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #33 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
 

 

 

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #34 of 43
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

 

I’m so furious that Google is willing to flaunt any law they wish but have absolutely no concept of fair use law for anyone else.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #35 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

[vid]

If Samsung stated their Apple knockoffs were parody products they might be able to get away with blatant copying¡

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


One would have to get close enough to actually pick your pocket in order to receive anything from NFC, plus it's not constantly transmitting. The user has to initiate a transmission.

Ah so it's not like the chips built into smart cards and passport chips where a stimulating transmitter just has to have it's power boosted to increase the range?

 

I thought NFC was more passive, if it can be turned off until "unlocked" that would solve security.

 

ETA: Ah, I see it's an extension of that earlier RFID passive system.

post #37 of 43

wishful thinking - They had no clue what they were talking about when they said that NFC was "not the solution to any current problem,"... just like no one wanted a small tablet or a big phone. Now all they need is to discover the microSD card.  


Edited by agramonte - 8/28/14 at 4:01pm
post #38 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

They had no clue what they were talking about when they said that NFC was "not the solution to any current problem,"

Who said this? Apple? Can you cite a source?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

Ah so it's not like the chips built into smart cards and passport chips where a stimulating transmitter just has to have it's power boosted to increase the range?

I thought NFC was more passive, if it can be turned off until "unlocked" that would solve security.

ETA: Ah, I see it's an extension of that earlier RFID passive system.

It's an evolution of RFID but it's vastly different. Two devices create a secure, wireless local loop with a range of only a few inches. This magnetic field and short loop offer many security benefits over an omni-directional wireless signal.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #40 of 43
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
Who said this? Apple? Can you cite a source?

 

Oh, hello, September 2012; how are you?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Rumor: Apple to enter mobile payment space with NFC-enabled 'iPhone 6'