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Both Apple's 'iPhone 6' and 'iWatch' will offer NFC e-wallet payments, WSJ reaffirms

post #1 of 47
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Yet another publication chimed in on Thursday to say that Apple's next iPhone and its anticipated wearable "iWatch" will support near-field communications technology to enable wireless payments, while the "iWatch" is also said to sport a curved OLED display.

Touch ID


The details were shared by The Wall Street Journal, which cited unnamed people familiar with the unannounced devices. Both the "iWatch" and the "iPhone 6" are expected to be unveiled at an Apple media event next Tuesday.

"NFC wireless is central to Apple's plans to incorporate so-called tap-to-pay into its mobile devices, allowing users to pay for goods and services using credit cards stored with iTunes, people close to Apple said," reported Lorraine Luk, Daisuke Wakabayashi and Greg Bensinger.

Thursday's report also reaffirmed claims that the "iWatch" will come in two different sizes, and that it will sport a curved OLED display. In addition to NFC for wireless payments, the device is also expected to track and interpret health and fitness data.

iWatch
Artist's rendition of purported Apple smartwatch. | Source: Yrving Torrealba


One person familiar with the project reportedly said there is "no way" that the wearable Apple device will launch this year. Recent reports have pegged the anticipated device for an early 2015 launch.

Reports first began to surface last week that Apple may be ready to relent on its long-held resistance to NFC technology. It's expected that the forthcoming iPhone and "iWatch" will securely store users' credit card data to allow authorization of transactions at brick-and-mortar stores without the need to carry a credit card.

Following that information, John Gruber of Daring Fireball chimed in to say that Apple's "iPhone 6" and "iWatch" will feature a new secure enclave to store credit card information. He suggested that the e-wallet functionality would be restricted to new NFC-capable hardware, and would not be available on legacy devices like the iPhone 5s which lack NFC functionality.

Supposedly backing up these rumors are purported "iPhone 6" schematics and component "leaks" that suggest support for an NFC-compliant chip. No hardware leaks for the anticipated "iWatch" have surfaced yet, as the device is not believed to be in production.

And this past weekend, reports surfaced claiming that Apple has reached deals with American Express, Visa, and MasterCard for its anticipated mobile payment service, bringing the world's top credit card companies onboard for an apparently imminent launch.

All is expected to be revealed at Apple's media event next Tuesday, which kicks off at the Flint Center in Cupertino, Calif., at 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern. AppleInsider will be there live, and readers can get up-to-the-minute alerts with the official AppleInsider app for iPhone and iPad.
post #2 of 47
Simply tapping your wrist to pay, and not even bothering with pulling the phone out of your pocket, would be fucking amazing. This is an application where the wearable form factor makes sense and has a distinct advantage.
post #3 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Simply tapping your wrist to pay, and not even bothering with pulling the phone out of your pocket, would be fucking amazing. This is an application where the wearable form factor makes sense and has a distinct advantage.

 

How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #4 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Simply tapping your wrist to pay, and not even bothering with pulling the phone out of your pocket, would be fucking amazing. This is an application where the wearable form factor makes sense and has a distinct advantage.

But all the Google fanboys tell us notifications are most important. 1tongue.gif I agree with you though. Tap to pay functionality would be brilliant.
post #5 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

 

How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?

Fingerprint or PIN tapped onto the surface of the watch presumably.  Although the former seems to invite a new type of strongarm robbery.

post #6 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post**
 

 

How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?


Touch ID?

 

What else? Touch ID is what will be used. If the iWatch is part of this, perhaps the iWatch sports Touch ID.

 

Somehow I don't think the iWatch will have Touch ID, and you will still have to *gasp* take your phone out of your pocket.

post #7 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?

Watch would communicate via Bluetooth to the phone.
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post #8 of 47
So I guess this means the iWatch will have a sapphire display, or at least part of it. For TouchID to read your fingerprint there can't be any scratches on the sensor, thus the sapphire home button on the 5s.
post #9 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post


Touch ID?

 

What else? Touch ID is what will be used. If the iWatch is part of this, perhaps the iWatch sports Touch ID.

 

Somehow I don't think the iWatch will have Touch ID, and you will still have to *gasp* take your phone out of your pocket.

 



Sorry, but that makes no sense. If you're going to be grabbing your phone to complete the transaction the convenience of the wrist-based part evaporates.

Oh we'll we're learn soon enough.
post #10 of 47

BOOM! This is what I've been waiting for. Now all phones I use will have this.

post #11 of 47
If you need to authenticate via fingerprint on a wearables band, what's the point? Might as well pull out my phone and use that.
post #12 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post


Touch ID?

 

What else? Touch ID is what will be used. If the iWatch is part of this, perhaps the iWatch sports Touch ID.

 

Somehow I don't think the iWatch will have Touch ID, and you will still have to *gasp* take your phone out of your pocket.

 



Sorry, but that makes no sense. If you're going to be grabbing your phone to complete the transaction the convenience of the wrist-based part evaporates.

Oh we'll we're learn soon enough.

I don't even think Touch ID will even be necessary. Over the course of the past year, if I run a transaction as credit, I've never had to authenticate anything. Especially at a McDonalds (which there have been reports that say mcdonalds will be part of this whole thing). It's usually just swipe and go with the card. Now, it'll be swipe and go with the watch.
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post #13 of 47

Finger print DUH!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

 

How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?

post #14 of 47
What about some type of biometric identification for authenticating transactions? Some combination of pulse, blood pressure, oxygen level, etc.

Anyone remember any Apple patents that reference something like that?
post #15 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?

Touch ID on your iPhone authenticates your iWatch which can then be used for payments. If you remove the iWatch the device knows this and then prevents it from being used as such until it's authenticated to the iPhone again via Touch ID.

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post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmb0037 View Post


Watch would communicate via Bluetooth to the phone.

 

And if someone steals both your watch and phone they will be able to make purchases? I don't think Apple will want the liability of this happening.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post
 

Fingerprint or PIN tapped onto the surface of the watch presumably.  Although the former seems to invite a new type of strongarm robbery.

 

Although Apple has been working on embedding fingerprint sensors into displays, I find it very hard to believe that they actually have a viable working product ready for mass production. However, being required to type your card's CCV, makes the most sense.

 

 

Personally, I think Touch ID is key to Apple's implementation of mobile payments. If the watch can be used to make a transaction without needing to read your fingerprint each time, then there has to be a trigger that says, "Oops! You need to authenticate yourself again." Maybe if the watch is moved out of range (a predetermined distance from your phone) or if the watch can somehow tell that it was removed from your wrist?

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

And if someone steals both your watch and phone they will be able to make purchases? I don't think Apple will want the liability of this happening.

Why do you think that will happen? Are they also stealing your fingers?

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post #18 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmb0037 View Post


I don't even think Touch ID will even be necessary. Over the course of the past year, if I run a transaction as credit, I've never had to authenticate anything. Especially at a McDonalds (which there have been reports that say mcdonalds will be part of this whole thing). It's usually just swipe and go with the card. Now, it'll be swipe and go with the watch.

 

Yeah, I don't think Apple would allow such a thing to take place without some form authentication, regardless of how it works now.  If this was the case, they would've added NFC capabilities years ago like most competitors. Apple has been working to make sure it is very secure and will not allow the transaction to proceed unless the device is able to verify that you are who you say you are. Can you imagine the shit-storm on the blogosphere if Apple's mobile payment system wasn't completely and absolutely secure?

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #19 of 47

How much implementation of NFC is currently out there in retail? I assume that hardware at cash registers (grocery stores, restaurants, gas pumps, movie theaters, etc) will need to be installed.  I've never seen any so far. Are there other phones that have NFC now? I can imagine there would have to be a portable unit that a waitperson can bring to your table for payment. Hopefully Apple will produce the numbers and demand for the tech to become ubiquitous.

post #20 of 47
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?


TouchID on the watch?

post #21 of 47

Yes, you authenticate the watch with TouchID on your iPhone when you put on the watch. It will stay authenticated until you take off the watch.

 

This could also be used to unlock or make purchases on your iPhone when in proximity to your iWatch.

 

Eventually you will just pull your iPhone out of your pocket, it will sense the iWatch and unlock itself.

post #22 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

 

How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?

Couldn't the user be authenticated with the use of the heart rate monitor?

post #23 of 47

If it has all those biometric sensors, perhaps the watch when set-up becomes linked to your unique biological profile. Authentication becomes unnecessary and theft renders the iWatch useless.

post #24 of 47
Originally Posted by DipDog3 View Post
Yes, you authenticate the watch with TouchID on your iPhone when you put on the watch. It will stay authenticated until you take off the watch.

 

Ah, ooh, no. I mean there’d be a TouchID receiver there. You authenticate every single time. It’s not safe otherwise.

post #25 of 47
Maybe the iWatch will use a different biometric for your ID. For example, IR readings to work out the positions of your veins in your arm (which is pretty unique). The watch would only be authorise payments for the correct wearer then.
post #26 of 47

John Gruber had already hinted this several days ago, as an update on his post talking about a "joke" which several sites linked to as a hint that NFC was coming.

 

His "follow-up joke":

[quote]It would be cool, and would make a lot of sense, if the new wearable thing had the same magic payment apparatus.[/quote]

post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

 

How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?

 

Well, two things:

 

1) For purchases under $25, and sometimes even $50, many merchants will not require an ID with a conventional credit card.  So to assume that any form of identification must necessarily be required for purchases using a touch to pay system, at least for purchases in these same price ranges, is I think a mistaken assumption.

 

2) This technology will very likely encapsulate a form of chip and pin (EMV) technology.  The credit card industry is rushing to complete a roll-out of EMV in the United States by the end of 2015.  Chip and pin transactions involve the use of a private pin and a chip in the case of a conventional card... that act together to provide added layers of security which make it difficult or impossible to clone cards, or to enact fraudulent transactions.  Every major payment network in the United States (Amex, Discover, Visa, MasterCard) are implementing liability shifts in October 0f 2015 which will make the card issuers and merchants liable for fraudulent transactions not carried out using chip and pin.  That means there is strong motivation for issuers and merchants to update their infrastructure by that date.  That includes issuing new cards with chips (I've already gotten a few), and it means replacing POS terminals with chip and pin capable units.

What this means, in a nutshell, is that by the end of 2015, almost every merchant in the United States will support chip and pin transactions.  And that in turn means any device capable of interacting with a chip and pin terminal via NFC, and implementing the EMV standard... will be able to securely make transaction on these networks.

post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by willrob View Post
 

How much implementation of NFC is currently out there in retail? I assume that hardware at cash registers (grocery stores, restaurants, gas pumps, movie theaters, etc) will need to be installed.  I've never seen any so far. Are there other phones that have NFC now? I can imagine there would have to be a portable unit that a waitperson can bring to your table for payment. Hopefully Apple will produce the numbers and demand for the tech to become ubiquitous.

 

This is all going to happen by the end of 2015.

post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsmith View Post

Maybe the iWatch will use a different biometric for your ID. For example, IR readings to work out the positions of your veins in your arm (which is pretty unique). The watch would only be authorise payments for the correct wearer then.
That seems a great deal less reliable than Touch ID though at being accurate enough to detect who you are. That sounds cool but I think it'll be unlikely. Something more along the lines of authenticating to the device initially with Touch ID and that authentication remaining until the watch is removed is more likely. However, that seems like it would become an annoyance having to in essence resync every time you put on the iWatch. We will hopefully know soon enough.
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post #30 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Simply tapping your wrist to pay, and not even bothering with pulling the phone out of your pocket, would be fucking amazing. This is an application where the wearable form factor makes sense and has a distinct advantage.


My thought exactly.

 

Amazing that all those companies that have been using NFC for years are now making smartwatches without NFC ! Once again, Apple will show them the way for something they should have thought about themselves.

post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

 

How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?


Biometrics.

 

A different owner will have different stats.

post #32 of 47

I think it's exactly where apple want to position themselves. You put the watch on and it takes your biometrics & "Just works". No more touch ID, etc. It really depends on exactly how much data the watch is going to draw from the user but from Apple's recent hires and HealthKit and the rumours of them working with health institutions this seems to be the route they are going down.

Collecting health data and bioinformatics will be a MUCH greater market than simply showing text messages or calls on your wrist. No-one is going to pay $400 for a wrist mounted texting device. A watch that tells you your blood sugar if you're diabetic, or blood pressure if you're hypertensive? That would be a huge market.

Can anyone remember the rumours about Apple hiring a THX working to monitor the turbulent sound of blood in your vessels prior to a heart attack? How much would you pay for a watch that could warn you you're about to have a heart attack. This is why the competition has dropped the ball. It isn't about a mini phone on your wrist, It's about having a mini doctor on your wrist!

post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post
 

Fingerprint or PIN tapped onto the surface of the watch presumably.  Although the former seems to invite a new type of strongarm robbery.

Hmmm, Robbers wandering the streets with active and mobile NFC station grabbing peoples' arms and forcing them to touch their watches?  Yeah, that looks like a feasible robbery method.

 

not.

post #34 of 47
Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post



How would the purchase be authorized or the user authenticated?




Touch ID on your iPhone authenticates your iWatch which can then be used for payments. If you remove the iWatch the device knows this and then prevents it from being used as such until it's authenticated to the iPhone again via Touch ID.



Also, I am assuming that it will triangulate from biometric data (from Healthkit)? How cool would that be!


(Pipped by ClemyNX and current interest).
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post
 


My thought exactly.

 

Amazing that all those companies that have been using NFC for years are now making smartwatches without NFC ! Once again, Apple will show them the way for something they should have thought about themselves.

It definitely is the right user experience.   I move my hand to the pay station (within range) , and then authorize it with a touch of a finger.

 

I think the hard thing would be payment selection...  Unless there is a Geo based or iBeacon defined default for a location. (when in Starbucks use your gift card, when in Albertsons, use your debit card, when in Home Depot or Target... PAY CASH!!!!) ;-)

 

Otherwise, I would have thought the phone popping up a notification to use your passbook to select payment method, and then TouchID to authorize.  Just like pulling your wallet.   But at that point, I guess it's not saving much, other than tokenizing the purchase.

post #36 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post
 

John Gruber had already hinted this several days ago, as an update on his post talking about a "joke" which several sites linked to as a hint that NFC was coming.

 

His "follow-up joke":

[quote]It would be cool, and would make a lot of sense, if the new wearable thing had the same magic payment apparatus.[/quote]


I could see it happening: 1) in anticipation of future NFC devices in the US and 2) to cover those in other countries that do use it and 3) it might be cheap enough to just have it in there as part of an integrated chip, so why leave it out if it's being used at least a lot in other countries.

post #37 of 47
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
 Recent reports have pegged the anticipated device for an early 2015 launch.

 

Good.  Plenty of time to get the inevitable Xcode 6 update, play around in the "iWatch" simulator, and learn all about Extensions in iOS 8.  Always best to give developers some lead time before releasing brand-new hardware.  (And yes, Apple has been talking-up Autolayout for nearly 2 years now, so apps should be ready to handle new pixel geometries for iPhone "6" etc.)

 

Then again, should Apple open up "iWatch" to any and all random developers?

Or should Apple cherry-pick just a few apps and/or brands as they do with Apple TV?

Now that I think about it, the cherry-pick approach seems better.

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post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by DipDog3 View Post
 

Yes, you authenticate the watch with TouchID on your iPhone when you put on the watch. It will stay authenticated until you take off the watch.

 

This could also be used to unlock or make purchases on your iPhone when in proximity to your iWatch.

 

Eventually you will just pull your iPhone out of your pocket, it will sense the iWatch and unlock itself.

Or simply use iBeacon to determine if it's in proximity to your phone. As soon as it's not, it would require reauthentication, or not be used for purchases.

post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

 

And if someone steals both your watch and phone they will be able to make purchases? I don't think Apple will want the liability of this happening.

 

Is it not easier to steal a wallet compared to two devices, one of which is clasped to your wrist?

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post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Then again, should Apple open up "iWatch" to any and all random developers?
Or should Apple cherry-pick just a few apps and/or brands as they do with Apple TV?
Now that I think about it, the cherry-pick approach seems better.
I think that's the approach. It can't be open season to all developers. The apps have to have real implications. There are so many apps in the App Store that are worthless. It needs to be finely curated. Or at the very least there need to be extreme guardrails for developers.
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