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Rumor: Disaster at MWNY... :(

post #1 of 267
Thread Starter 
Spymac is reporting that the G4 will be stuck at 1.2 GHz, and that as an act of desperation, Apple will make ALL powermacs dual processor.

Spymac DID nail the eMac rumor, so they certainly have some good sources. The question is if this report is based on a good source. What's scary is that Spymac usually errs on the side of optimism...
post #2 of 267
Given the 1.2 Ghz bump I don't think it's out of the question to see uniform dual processors. (except in the iMac/eMac line where consumers don't want to pay for that) Would this also include DDR support, GeForce Ti, or some of the other 'requested upgrades'? Just food for thought. I think spymac is reading our posts and making a 'safe generalization'.
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post #3 of 267
with this info, would you say the new powermac speeds would be: 933, 1.0, and 1.2? that sounds pretty bad to me

going with all dual machines sounds like a neat idea, but now it will be even harder for me to afford one.
post #4 of 267
sounds good. the important question is whether they break the fsb bottleneck.

something like:

2x800
2x1 Ghz
2x1.2 Ghz

would rock.

ting5
Suckfuldotwhatever, dude.

It's the FSB, not the proc speed that is the problem. Your fire engine isn't worth sh:t no matter how big the pump is if it uses a garden hose to put out fires. Let's at...
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Suckfuldotwhatever, dude.

It's the FSB, not the proc speed that is the problem. Your fire engine isn't worth sh:t no matter how big the pump is if it uses a garden hose to put out fires. Let's at...
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post #5 of 267
Apple is slowly but surely fooking themselves.
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post #6 of 267
Don't know how much weight can be thrown at that rumor considering that Spymac says it's not from trusted sources, it's from an anonymous tipster (could be Meader for all we know), and then the other part that is just ridiculous is that they base part of the rumor on the fact that an Apple rep said to do video and graphics work on a dual machine. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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post #7 of 267
Thread Starter 
This is extra-troubling because of the Powerlogix 1 GHz upgrades. If people can buy a dual 1 GHz upgrade card, then why buy a $3500 Powermac if they are stuck at 1.2 GHz?

Hell the CURRENT 1 GHZ G4 boxes can be overclocked to 1.2 GHZ no problem!

What this would mean is that Moto has hit another barrier, much like the 500 MHz barrier. Also, Moto has said before that the G4 isn't going to scale much beyond 1 GHz.

If this is all Apple's got, then they should make it another silent update and plan on pro sales taking a major hit. This could be the beginning of the end of Apple as we know them.
post #8 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>This is extra-troubling because of the Powerlogix 1 GHz upgrades. If people can buy a dual 1 GHz upgrade card, then why buy a $3500 Powermac if they are stuck at 1.2 GHz?

Hell the CURRENT 1 GHZ G4 boxes can be overclocked to 1.2 GHZ no problem!

What this would mean is that Moto has hit another barrier, much like the 500 MHz barrier. Also, Moto has said before that the G4 isn't going to scale much beyond 1 GHz.

If this is all Apple's got, then they should make it another silent update and plan on pro sales taking a major hit. This could be the beginning of the end of Apple as we know them.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Bah. You don't know your elbow from your *******. It's ALWAYS the end of Apple, and yet it continues on. Really, you should just bail if it's a problem for you.

And don't give me that "I care about the platform" excuse, either, because you don't. You just care about things like specs and speed ratings because your life is devoid of other meaning (or some other psycho/neurological condition as yet undignosed). If the Mac no longer is cost-effective or underpowered for your tastes, move on.

But most of all, just shut up.

ting5
Suckfuldotwhatever, dude.

It's the FSB, not the proc speed that is the problem. Your fire engine isn't worth sh:t no matter how big the pump is if it uses a garden hose to put out fires. Let's at...
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Suckfuldotwhatever, dude.

It's the FSB, not the proc speed that is the problem. Your fire engine isn't worth sh:t no matter how big the pump is if it uses a garden hose to put out fires. Let's at...
Reply
post #9 of 267
Thread Starter 
Ok, dipsh!t, if I only care about specs and speed ratings, then explain why I'm content with my Powermac G4 400, w/ Radeon?

Explain why I intend to keep this computer another 2-3 years, and to never spend over $400 on a CPU upgrade?

I think it's YOU who's got some weird psych disorder. What's more pathological...being concerned about a lack of competitive hardware from Apple, or lashing out with personal attacks whenever someone expresses such concern?

You tell me.
post #10 of 267
If they went with 933DP / 1ghz DP / 1.2ghz DP, all with DDR, and the top 2 with Superdrives, at the current Powermac price points, that wouldn't be too bad. I'd probably pick one up. A dual 1.2 w/ DDR would be substantially faster than the current dual 1.0.ghz
post #11 of 267
I think it's funny how we rip on everyone else being stuck on Mhz - and yet we freak out when PowerMacs might only get a 200mhz bump - when realistically - their speed bump might be much, much higher given a new FSB and RAM.
post #12 of 267
sorry -redundant post

[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: pey/coy-ote ]</p>
post #13 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>Ok, dipsh!t, if I only care about specs and speed ratings, then explain why I'm content with my Powermac G4 400, w/ Radeon?

Explain why I intend to keep this computer another 2-3 years, and to never spend over $400 on a CPU upgrade?

I think it's YOU who's got some weird psych disorder. What's more pathological...being concerned about a lack of competitive hardware from Apple, or lashing out with personal attacks whenever someone expresses such concern?

You tell me.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well said.
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post #14 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by There is no g5:
<strong>


Bah. You don't know your elbow from your *******. It's ALWAYS the end of Apple, and yet it continues on. Really, you should just bail if it's a problem for you.

And don't give me that "I care about the platform" excuse, either, because you don't. You just care about things like specs and speed ratings because your life is devoid of other meaning (or some other psycho/neurological condition as yet undignosed). If the Mac no longer is cost-effective or underpowered for your tastes, move on.

But most of all, just shut up.

ting5</strong><hr></blockquote>

Amen. Besides a 20% speed bump ain't bad. What's everyone want, 1.6 Ghz duals (yeah right a 60% speed bump because Moto worked some Mojo)

reality is a B!tch ain't it.
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post #15 of 267
Spymac is horrible.
post #16 of 267
This is ridiculous.

If this happens, it won't be the first time according to some....

Apple should produce proper DDR266 1.4Ghz G4s at MWNY, and thats modest...
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post #17 of 267
First, Spymac isn't exactly a reliable source. Remember the whole iPad fiasco? That's what put it on the map. Not exactly a good start.

Second, you talk as if dual 1.2GHz is a bad thing. I'd much rather have a dual 1.2GHz computer than a single 1.4 or even 1.6. Everyone in computing is saying that the answer for future faster processors isn't clock speed but rather more efficient design.

And the big update with the next PowerMacs isn't in MHz, it's in the motherboard. They could keep the current speeds and throw in DDR and it would still be a huge upgrade. You people place way too much weight on clock speed.

[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: Rasputin ]</p>
post #18 of 267
Thread Starter 
So you guys don't think that Apple needs to compete with the 2.5 GHZ Pentium 4 systems out there?
post #19 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>This could be the beginning of the end of Apple as we know them.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If I had a nickel...
post #20 of 267
The problem here is as follows:

IT'S SPYMAC!

The people who brought you the iWalk, and then the iWalk part 2. Sure, they've had SOME good info since then, but don't think that they don't throw a lot of BS in with that occasion good info.

And as mentioned above, this "rumor" is from an anonymous tipster, based only on an Apple Rep's statement that graphics pros should only buy Dual Ghz machines.

First I'd like to dispel some things. Most Apple Reps don't know jack about future products. Every Apple employee I know follows the rumors just like the "commoners." Only a handful of people know what is coming *for sure* in NY, but still, only some of those who work AT the campus and a couple outside would even know what's in development.

Second, there was a comment on Spymac that the Dual machines have a lot more problems than single proc machines and that the rep was probably just trying to sell some stuff. Let me again say that that is BS. I know that there's no particular model that has more problems than any other. If anything, there are more problems with the 733/867/933 machines because more of them were sold!

Let me just say this much: I didn't predict Dual 1.5 Ghz machines randomly. I have some damn good reasons for picking that number. One never knows with Apple, but 1.5 Ghz is a number that has some meaning.

1.2 Ghz would've been an update worthy of LAST Macworld NY, when there was a near riot. Somehow there we went from 1 733 to 2 800s and it was crappy, but we'd all be happy with 2 1000 going to 2 1200? No WAY.

We all know that Junkyard Dawg is an incredibly pessimistic poster (Apple is doomed! etc etc etc) and this Spymac post is only adding to it. I could just as easily post something elsewhere saying Dual 1.5 Ghz, would that make anyone believe it more? All I'm saying is, don't take Spymac at its word--they are FAR from the final say in new products, and once again, my sources seem to conflict with theirs...
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post #21 of 267
I believe that a DP1.2 with DDR as per Server and Jaguar = &gt;50% performance improvement of current machines.

That is a BIG improvement.

However, my guess is that Apple has more up it sleve than that. The simple fact that UG cards have hit 1GHZ SPEAKS VOLUMES.
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post #22 of 267
Well I for one do want Apple to become competitive with intels chips, but it isn't going to happen in terms of clock speed.

Apple should aim for high memory bandwidth and high GigaFlops, enough so that these figures are higher than Apple's x86 counterparts....

However I doubt this will happen until Apple moves to a different power chip supplier (ie IBM) and brings out a new chip, even if it is costly. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
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post #23 of 267
i would be a bit pissed, if this is all apple can offer. I was planning on getting a new powermac this summer, but now I think it would be a mistake.

it's mostly a price issue, i can't seem to justify paying 2500 to run OS X.

realistically, the only difference these days between Wintel and Apple machines are aesthetic, and they are marginal at that.

stability, ease of use, and compatability gaps between the two are hard to find. i honestly can't find any other reason i would want os x, other than the awesome interface. so, unless apple can bring more competition performance-wise, i'd save 1000 dollars and use a slightly less neat GUI and gain hardware that is a bit more appealing and will scale a bit longer.
post #24 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>Ok, dipsh!t, if I only care about specs and speed ratings, then explain why I'm content with my Powermac G4 400, w/ Radeon?

Explain why I intend to keep this computer another 2-3 years, and to never spend over $400 on a CPU upgrade?

I think it's YOU who's got some weird psych disorder. What's more pathological...being concerned about a lack of competitive hardware from Apple, or lashing out with personal attacks whenever someone expresses such concern?

You tell me.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nah im gonna have to go with the other guy on this. I've seen posts of yours in the past speaking of Apple going down the tubes because they cant get current fast hardware out the door. And yet apple still exists after years of meaningless babbling from people like you.
post #25 of 267
I'm content having the best OS hands down. The best design of computers period...from top to bottom (emac,imac,ibook,pwerbook,powermac desktop). The best free apps of any OS..Itunes, iphoto, imovie, idvd.

Do you want chip speed or user speed. I think on a mac people can just get more done regardless, and be happier about it too.

Simply the best(MAC) or simply fast chip(PC)

I'll take the Mac thanks!!!!!
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post #26 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>So you guys don't think that Apple needs to compete with the 2.5 GHZ Pentium 4 systems out there?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't care what Intel does. I don't buy cheap tools, cheap chain saws, cheap vacuum cleaners, Honda murdercycles, etc and I don't buy cheap computers that last 6-months (assuming you can even get your stuff to work). I got a wintel box and windog XP and I don't care how fast it is, it's still ugly and horrible to work with.
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
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post #27 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>So you guys don't think that Apple needs to compete with the 2.5 GHZ Pentium 4 systems out there?</strong><hr></blockquote>

OK I'm so tired of this.

For all those falling for JYD's babbling about P4 performance, based (most likely) on nothing, and if anything, benchmarks (which are useless as we know), check out these links:

Apple's Official Export Compliance info:
<a href="http://www.info.apple.com/support/export.html" target="_blank">http://www.info.apple.com/support/export.html</a>

Look at the first column, CTP, measured in MTOPs (Millions of Theoretical Operations Per Second)

Then look at Intel's own Official CTP info page:
<a href="http://support.intel.com/support/processors/CTP.HTM#15" target="_blank">http://support.intel.com/support/processors/CTP.HTM#15</a>

What you'll notice is that while the Dual 1 Ghz Powermac has a CTP of 27,000 MTOPs, the 2.53 Ghz P4 has only a 6746 rating.

Yes these numbers are theoretical performance, but the only thing holding back the G4 is the FSB and the Memory bus. Apple doesn't NEED a Dual 1.8 Ghz tower to best Intel's P4. All they NEED is to improve bandwidth on the mobo and then Apple will ROLL OVER Intel--even its highest offering.

These are just the facts. No benchmarks. But the only thing that can prevent MTOPs ratings from proving themselves are FSB and Mem, so there's no deny it.
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post #28 of 267
The previous three posts are great. My thinking exactly. I'm not as hung up on sheer speed, specs, numbers, bragging rights, etc. as I am simply into the "don't think about it...it just works" elegance of my Mac and OS X.

The free iApps are the best, and I'd hate to imagine my life without iTunes or iPhoto at this point.

The integration (there IS a lot to be said for having one company that makes the OS AND the actual box it runs on) is really nice and I wouldn't want to use anything else.

I don't give five damns what Intel is up to. They can be pumping out 6GHz Pentium VI chips for all I care. I'll stick with what works for me, what I'm productive in and what I know.

Half you people who are always frantic and ranting about Apple's shortcomings and "dismal performance" probably aren't even tapping into or using 1/3 of your Mac's power and abilities anyway.

[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #29 of 267
If its true that 1.2 Ghz is the fastest they can do, then why not make the low end a single 1.2 Ghz, and the other 2 models dual 1.2 ghz? The biggest problem with the G4 towers is the price. If the low end tower stays at the same price point it will be a disaster. If they lower the price to a more reasonable $1299 they will sell very well. Its time for Apple to bring their prices down to earth. ..................................................
post #30 of 267
My vote is for DDR in the whole line up, both consumer and pro, laptop and desktop. Just the desktops in N.Y. for now though.

The DDR should be downplayed in the RDF. Just a matter of fact improvement.

Duals on all the pro line desktops. Ti cards or equal on the fastest. $100, $200 & $300 price drop on fast, faster, fastest.

If the new mobo is significant with the bells and whistles talked about on the board, 1.2 GHz is all right by me. Definatly not the end of the world at all and would be actually pretty ( :eek: way :eek: ) slick.

If it's not the beefy mobo I'm hopping for, then there is just that much more to catch up and some people will be buying AMD this time around.
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

But you know what? That's not the end of the world and this boat(Apple that is), is solid. :cool: :cool:

[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: tink ]</p>

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post #31 of 267
Thread Starter 
Ok, ok, ok, you guys are right. It doesn't matter how fast Pentiums are. It doesn't matter if Powermacs get their asses handed to them on a platter by x86 boxes on benchmarks ranging from photoshop to aftereffects. None of this matters, because OS X and Apple rock.

I suppose next you're going to tell me that marketshare is meaningless too, and that Apple could sell to a nich market 1/8 the size of their current market and it would be no problem?
post #32 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>

I don't give five damns what Intel is up to. They can be pumping out 6GHz Pentium VI chips for all I care. I'll stick with what works for me, what I'm productive in and what I know.

[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: pscates ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly.

My PC type friends just don't get it when they go on the MZH babble. I just shrug..and it just infuriates them.

I don't care what the number on it is... if it is fast enough to do the work I want and reliable, well... that is all I need.

I don't care how far your benchmarks can piss.

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #33 of 267
if the dual thing is true...if...what if its because the new iron was delayed by 3 months (i think moki said he heard a rumor that the ddr mobo had slipped a date)

if this is true then we might be talking stopgap in july fulll speed ahead in oct.

thoughts?
post #34 of 267
SpyMac ?

Oh yeah...
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post #35 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by pey/coy-ote:
<strong>sorry -redundant post

[ 06-26-2002: Message edited by: pey/coy-ote ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ooops :eek: I did it again! I desperately want to add something new, but it keeps coming out the same old drivel? Maybe if I had some information to work with.... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
post #36 of 267
not sticking up for them (and hate them for the iwalk stunt they pulled to get visitors) but didn't they get the emac or some other one correct?

its getting closer to NY so lots of lips might be getting looser.
post #37 of 267
Well, I did not write this myself, but I found it some time ago over at MacNN and it describes nicely my point of view about the theme

As somebody who switched from the PC to the Mac I will never understand those Mac users who are concerned about MHZ. For me AppleScript is such a timesaver, I just cannot automate my PC even having 2 GHZ. What as shame, 2 GHZ and no simple system-& app-wide automation of tasks...

Excuse my English, I am not a native speaker.

Greetings,

Martin


[quote]
...And thats why I use a Mac.
See, McDonalds has over x Billion served. Which means over x billion people ate sh*t for breakfast, lunch or dinner.

And that's fine. Midiocre food for mediocre people. But it's just not for me.

There are a variety of reasons not to eat McDonalds. Bob in Wisconsin doesn't eat it because of moral reasons: he is against the spread of 'global' (American) culture throughout the world, of quality, local establishments being passed over in favor of some corporate franchise. Sue in Zimbabwe doesn't eat McDonalds for ethical reasons: she is a rabbit-food eating vegan who is against the Amazon rainforest being burned down to make the land to raise the 'cattle' that go into McDonalds 'hamburgers.' Judith in the Czech republic doesn't eat McDonalds because of health reasons-- she doesn't feel the need to shorten her lifespan, and she hears bizarre rumours about what goes into McFood.

And those are all valid reasons...

...but they are not mine.

At the end of the day, i do not eat McDonalds because I am above eating McDonalds. It is sh*t.

I prefer prime rib. And if I have to explain why I prefer prime rib over ****, well then, we have a long day ahead of us, don't we! If it needs explanation, then it is most likely you will never understand.

Windows has x billion served. And there are a plethora of reasons not to use Windows XX. Phil in Nebraska might not use it because of moral reasons: he is not 'down' with Microsoft's business practices, bullying other companies and leveraging themselves into a Monopoly. He doesn't want to give his money to 'the man.'
Laura in Holland doesn't use WinXX for political and cultural reasons: she buys/uses the competition to ensure that there will remain a 'competition' and to see what this hippy-dippy techno-utopian cultural phenomena called 'open source' is all about.
And perhaps Vlad in Yugoslavia has been burned by WinXX before, and refuses to shell out hundreds for such a product again, instead turning to something either technologically superior (IE every other OS out there for PC hardware) or something easier to use/navigate.

And those are great reasons.

But they are not my reasons. My reason is that WinXX is sh*t. It is beneath me to use it.
A mediocre OS for mediocre people.

The best-selling OS product for the masses.. kind of the NSYNC or Spice Girls of OSes. Or, a better analogy, the McDonalds of Oses. Tripe for the masses who do not know better, who are so easily swayed by marketing that they drink Pepsi after a nice jog in the nike shoes and hilfiger tracksuit, who think that budweiser is beer, Kraft single slices are cheese, Wonderbread is in fact 'bread,' and Survivor/Jerry Springer are quality television. You know: idiots. The unwashed masses. The ones who keep the McDonalds and Microsofts of the world going.

And that's cool. To each their own. And most of them will never eat 'real' cheese or experience the flavours and variety of 'real beer.'
And they will never know what they are missing.

But it is not like I am some sort of peasant who doesn't have a choice. I do not live in the ghettos, I do not subsist off of handouts. I am not a beggar, and thus can afford to be a chooser. I choose prime rib. I choose to use a Powerbook. I choose to run Linux (technologically superior) and the Mac OS (ease of use) on it.

Because I am worth it. I am worth the few extra dollars for Shaftbury Paul and Tim's. I am worth the few extra cents for a small wheel of brie, or some feta for my salads and pasta, or a fresh loaf of sourdough.
I listen to real music made by bands/groups the gained reputation through talent, not sheer marketing force.

And if I have to explain my preference, if you just don't 'get it,' then chances are you never will. If I have to explain why Windows is beneath me, why McCrap is beneath me, why I don't wear Hilfiger jeans or drink Molson Canadian (the Canuck equivalent to a 5% alchohol Budweiser) or Mike's hard Lemonade or Rotting Grape wine....

Well, never mind. It shouldn't need explaining. If it does, you should be embarrased, because the Clue Train left town, and you missed it.
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post #38 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>Ok, ok, ok, you guys are right. It doesn't matter how fast Pentiums are. It doesn't matter if Powermacs get their asses handed to them on a platter by x86 boxes on benchmarks ranging from photoshop to aftereffects. None of this matters, because OS X and Apple rock.

I suppose next you're going to tell me that marketshare is meaningless too, and that Apple could sell to a nich market 1/8 the size of their current market and it would be no problem?</strong><hr></blockquote>

What does matter is how good the Macs' performance is. If we get PMs runnning at 1 gig, but blazingly fast because of MB, bus and memory tweaks, then they will sell, and sell well (assuming prices are reasonable). Yeah, the numbers do influence some consumers. But word of mouth is often a greater influence, as well as sale piches you get in the stores.
post #39 of 267
Thread Starter 
Douglass Adams was a Mac freak. Now he's dead.
post #40 of 267
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>Ok, dipsh!t, if I only care about specs and speed ratings, then explain why I'm content with my Powermac G4 400, w/ Radeon?

Explain why I intend to keep this computer another 2-3 years, and to never spend over $400 on a CPU upgrade?

I think it's YOU who's got some weird psych disorder. What's more pathological...being concerned about a lack of competitive hardware from Apple, or lashing out with personal attacks whenever someone expresses such concern?

You tell me.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Well.....you've proved my point. I couldn't have illustrated my point better. Thanks for saving me the trouble of having to come up with a reply, when you've so able demonstrated my case for me.

Now go buy an Athlon and quit whinging about all of this.

ting5
Suckfuldotwhatever, dude.

It's the FSB, not the proc speed that is the problem. Your fire engine isn't worth sh:t no matter how big the pump is if it uses a garden hose to put out fires. Let's at...
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Suckfuldotwhatever, dude.

It's the FSB, not the proc speed that is the problem. Your fire engine isn't worth sh:t no matter how big the pump is if it uses a garden hose to put out fires. Let's at...
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