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boycot .mac

post #1 of 138
Thread Starter 
How many people are going to be turning those iTools email accounts into a Hotmail one. Charging for free e-mail, way to betray all 2.2 million iTools account members, Apple. Cause I'm betting free e-mail aint worth 100 smackers a year.
post #2 of 138
Easy enough, just let September 30 pass by without paying.
post #3 of 138
i'm still having problems getting the stream, but if that's what's happening, that's f*cking bullsh*t! they've definately got some balls.... first up the imac prices and now charge for a free service.... doesn't make much sense.
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post #4 of 138
Consider how lucky you were to have it for free so long.

Remember, these services cost lots of money, especially for 2+ million subscribers.
post #5 of 138
heh, not much applause after .mac was demo'd......


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post #6 of 138
Thread Starter 
i understand that those services cost money. but i don't WANT them. i just want free email.
post #7 of 138
[quote]Originally posted by craig12co:
<strong>i understand that those services cost money. but i don't WANT them. i just want free email.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yeah, Same here. I too wish there could me subscription "tiers" so you could just get the e-mail. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
post #8 of 138
Likewise, I only ever use my mac.com e-mail account, nothing else. I am not paying $49 for that - it is going to be a hassle, but I am going to have to leave mac.com behind. Can't see why they can't offer just the e-mail for free.
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post #9 of 138
I agree. More pay structures would be welcome. It's typical to charge a more proportionally for fewer services, since it takes about the same amount of overhead, but I think Apple could handle it. Mac.com e-mail at least would be a good thing to keep free, or be a good thing to subscribe to on its own. It complicates the out-of-box experience this way.
post #10 of 138
I thought there was going to be an option to purchase the additional services - for $99. To make everyone pay the premium whether they want to use them or not is a bit much.

Are they offering a dialup account too for the price? I have broadband so I never really noticed. If this is the case, than that price is good for those using modems and or for those that are new to the internet. Since I have RoadRunner, I may just going to configure Mail to use that account. That is, if I don't decide to upgrade (since it will only be $49 - try it out for a year). 100MB of storage is nice - but can it be used with any FTP program? Or is it exclusive to just .mac via OS X?

Also, why did he say that Hotmail was not free? Is MS charging for Hotmail now?
post #11 of 138
There should be a large discount (or even free) for people buying new hardware from Sept. 30th on.
Surely the full subscription cost from a percentage of the installed user base should cover the most of the cost of running .mac.

Screed ...not an economics major...
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post #12 of 138
[quote]Originally posted by craig12co:
<strong>How many people are going to be turning those iTools email accounts into a Hotmail one.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Given that Hotmail is now charging $20/month [edit: $20/year - thanks groverat! I was wondering...] according to Steve's slide, not many.

So you're paying more for a Passport-linked, insecure spam magnet that (I just found out) thinks that Mozilla is "no longer supported" and that you should "upgrade" to IE 4 or Netscape 4.08.

Yahoo's charging too. Free POP mail is dying. It was supported by advertizing revenues, and then those fell through the floor. Given what you're getting, the .mac price is fair. Of course if it was free it would be nicer for us, but as it is it looks good relative to the competition.

Part of me is wondering whether one goal of this strategy is to pump some money into the ailing Earthlink. Apple lost a chunk of change on their Earthlink and Akamai investments last quarter, and they might be trying to buoy their partners up (among other things).

[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]

[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
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post #13 of 138
I'm really of two minds when it comes to this. On the one hand, it sucks to have to pay for something that was heretofore free. I really like all the services I get with iTools. They all were easy to use, free, etc. Now I've got to figure out what to do. For myself, it's an easy decision. For my family and significant other, who just used the email, it's a little tougher.

OTOH, as kickaha noted in another post, .mac is more than just email and web-space. The infrastructure is there for some amazing, amazing things. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Apple has to offer in leveraging this technology and I'll be willing to pony up the $50 for it. Now, about those email addresses... Can I divy them up between friends and family or not? I'll have to check it out.
post #14 of 138
Go right ahead and boycott.

My Grandparents boycotted the Internet when it came out.
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post #15 of 138
Folks. Remember paying customers have a much stronger voice. Apple now has to "work" to keep your business. Just like Tipping brings better service at a restaraunt..you will be the beneficiary of "better" service.
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post #16 of 138
Yes, there should be a cost for .Mac, but Apple should've at least kept the features that iTools had free. That's ridiculous.
post #17 of 138
[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>Given that Hotmail is now charging $20/month according to Steve's slide, not many.</strong><hr></blockquote>

$20 per year

10MB e-mail storage
McAfee virus scanning
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post #18 of 138
Basic Hotmail and Yahoo! webmail is free but you have to suffer through advertisements and promotional emails. If you want expanded capacity and fewer advertisements you have to pay.

Apple, like Hotmail and Yahoo!, should offer a basic free webmail service and charge for anything else. But then again, I expect Apple not to just equal Hotmail, but to exceed it. So far that's not happening with Apples webmail.
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post #19 of 138
I think I have to let this sink in a little more to have a strong opinion either way...

It does cost them money, that's for sure. I also know people with 5 or 10 iDisks set up - that's got to cost them alot.

BUT, we already pay a pretty significant premium when we buy a Macintosh - $100 US a year for .Mac seems like a lot to me.
post #20 of 138
I hate the fact that Apple is leading the way to a subscription based internet. Along with the rest of them. You can lead or follow in this world, and if you don't follow your leading. That is why Apple the guys from Real One on there first.
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post #21 of 138
I only used the nice pop mail provided by Apple at mac.com, however that was all I used.

I really think this may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Us Mac defenders have been using all the cool bundled software and services to justify the absurd hardware prices. Now Apple is charging for a .1 update ($129 too damn 10.1 to 10.2) and also charging for all the services on top of charging beyond top dollar for the hardware.

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post #22 of 138
I'm all for it. Bandwidth, maintenence and the like are NOT free. They cost Apple. Funny how people have no problems paying $80 for some tennis shoes or a sweater but balk at paying for Software or services. If you can do without...then do so but I'm sure plenty of people want more individual attention. It's only $8 per month.
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post #23 of 138
Im SO pissed about this. I had all my mail going through mac.com because I was switching services fairly regularly, but theres no way in hell that Im gonna shell out good money so that I can have an email adress that I cant even acess online, a bloody proxy address!
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post #24 of 138
[quote]I hate the fact that Apple is leading the way to a subscription based internet.<hr></blockquote>

Apple is following, as usual, and is behind on the curve. The are just making it a tight package for their userbase and giving it a pretty face.

The fact that Jobs even mentioned .NET is a complete joke. .Mac is a couple of internet services controlled by Apple and overpriced (it is from Apple, after all).
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post #25 of 138
[quote]Originally posted by murbot:
<strong>
It does cost them money, that's for sure. I also know people with 5 or 10 iDisks set up - that's got to cost them alot.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

That is a very good point. There are many individuals that have multiple accounts. It is over extending the free service. It consumes money an resources multiple time for one individual.

Additionally, I use the IMAP feature of my mac.com mail everyday, from multiple places. My ISP doesn't do it and my web-server doesn't do it. And I can't find one that will do it for 8 bucks a month more than I pay now.

Worth it just fro that alone, I say.

Peeps, it is a service. One that costs money to maintain and improve upon. With all the other iApps that are free we need to realize that somewhere the free lunch had to stop somewhere. And they were smart in choosing a place that other already charge for and one that is elective.

I will day a free 6 months with a purchase of a new computer would be a nice incentive, though.
post #26 of 138
...reminds me of when I used to do a beer promotion for my restaurant. Instead of paying the band, we would sell 32oz pitchers of beer for 1¢ between 9-10 (around the time the band got ready to start) if you had a door stamp showing you had paid the cover to get it. So, we gave away what amounted to 2 kegs of beer ($130) and the bands made $500-600. And the brtenders made killer cash. Win-win-win.

...except, we began cultivating a crowd that expected free shit all the time. Soon, the began taking it for granted, quit tipping well, started bitching about having to wait in line, started bitching about the pitcher size, etc.

It seems Apple has dug itself the same hole here. All you whiners complain about .mac and how the bundling used to make macs worth more, while completely overlooking iChat, Sherlock 3, iCal, and iSync, four completely top notch new apps Apple is giving you for free. And with .mac, it gives you capabilities you can't even get on another platform.

Oh, and lets not forget iMovie, iDVD, iTunes, QuickTime StreamingServer, and QuickTime Broadcaster, all also available for free. I dunno about you, but I feel its a damn fine deal I already get and I will happily pay $99 a year ($49 this year) to have my Palm, iPod, and Macs at work and home all synced.

Plus, given the fact that I curently don't have anti-virus software or backup software, I think its a steal.

Yet, you bitch cuz you don't get free e-mail. Hmmm. Some people can't see the forest for all the trees.
post #27 of 138
And what is the exact definition of .NET, Groverat? Most of the benefits we have seen so far from .NET have been a handful of subscription services.

[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
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post #28 of 138
I liked the keynote, i will definitely upgrade to .Mac because it has sh!t i can use and want to use. Im a consumer user who was going to upgrade iTools for more space anyways so now its like getting a bunch of other great features and future features for free.

I cant wait for Jaguar. M$ wont be able to match that in Windows 2011.

peace to the whiners
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post #29 of 138
You guys are a bunch of cry babies. You all must be in highschool and not have jobs for the summer. WA! Welcome to the real world were people BUY things they want or need. For crying out loud, wake up before noon, shave, put some close on and get a honest job.

There is a saying your daddies and mommies use to say to you, remember? Nothing in this world is for ....
post #30 of 138
[quote]Originally posted by mooseman:
<strong>...reminds me of when I used to do a beer promotion for my restaurant. Instead of paying the band, we would sell 32oz pitchers of beer for 1¢ between 9-10 (around the time the band got ready to start) if you had a door stamp showing you had paid the cover to get it. So, we gave away what amounted to 2 kegs of beer ($130) and the bands made $500-600. And the brtenders made killer cash. Win-win-win.

...except, we began cultivating a crowd that expected free shit all the time. Soon, the began taking it for granted, quit tipping well, started bitching about having to wait in line, started bitching about the pitcher size, etc.

It seems Apple has dug itself the same hole here. All you whiners complain about .mac and how the bundling used to make macs worth more, while completely overlooking iChat, Sherlock 3, iCal, and iSync, four completely top notch new apps Apple is giving you for free. And with .mac, it gives you capabilities you can't even get on another platform.

Oh, and lets not forget iMovie, iDVD, iTunes, QuickTime StreamingServer, and QuickTime Broadcaster, all also available for free. I dunno about you, but I feel its a damn fine deal I already get and I will happily pay $99 a year ($49 this year) to have my Palm, iPod, and Macs at work and home all synced.

Plus, given the fact that I curently don't have anti-virus software or backup software, I think its a steal.

Yet, you bitch cuz you don't get free e-mail. Hmmm. Some people can't see the forest for all the trees.</strong><hr></blockquote>


word to that [standing 'O']
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post #31 of 138


[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Blizaine ]</p>
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post #32 of 138
[quote]Originally posted by JPF:
<strong>
There is a saying your daddies and mommies use to say to you, remember? Nothing in this world is for ....</strong><hr></blockquote>

But iTools was free, wasn't it?
post #33 of 138
right... but .mac (or current iTools) will give you 5MB and if you want that much, then you have to pay for it...
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post #34 of 138
This is pathetic. Do you people know how much it costs to host all that stuff? I don't, but I know it's not free for Apple.

It's always been true that you get what you pay for. The Great Myth of the Internet is that content would be free. That bubble burst a few years ago.

Software costs money to develope, hardware costs money to maintain and upgrade. Bandwidth (especially to 2.2 million people) costs money.

Why on God's green Earth would you think you get that for free?

Enjoy the free ride you had then open your eyes to the real world: Businesses offer something, customers pay for it. If you don't like it, don't get it.

Free e-mail? No such thing. Yahoo! and everyone else ends up swamping you with ads and spamming your box to death.

$100 for everything Apple is offering doesn't sound so bad. Heck, I'm not even going to use it, but it's still not a bad deal.
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post #35 of 138
Ok... how about everyone who has something to say to Apple about .mac go here:

<a href="http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac.html" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac.html</a>

They listen to our OS X and iApps feedback, lets see if they listen to us about .mac.

All I want is the old iTools package back for well under $100. Personally, I don't need more than 5 megs worth of email, a 100 MB iDisk, or virus and backup software (already have those two).

It would also be nice to see barebones mac.com email for a dirt cheap price and fowarding for free.
post #36 of 138
iTools free? Um, not really. Apple just builds the cost into the hardware. Remember, they still make a profit (except for that Cube quarter)

Here's a question: Would you pay $4,000 for an iMac and get say, 5 years of all software and web upgrades/services for FREE? Or Would you pay $2000, and buy the upgrades and service you wanted for the next 5 years?

eh?
post #37 of 138
[quote]Originally posted by MaCommentary:
<strong>right... but .mac (or current iTools) will give you 5MB and if you want that much, then you have to pay for it...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Right, and that's reasonable, but they should still have a free option with less space.
post #38 of 138
To repeat ymself, I think a good PR move would be a minimal Mac.com e-mail account for new users for a trial period. That could be excellent incentive along with the fact that they don't have to buy extra web page, backup or virus software.

Anyway, as far as the .NET vs. .mac thing, NeXT really was thinking ahead with WebObjects, and Microsoft does deserve some credit for thinking of bringing this kind of paradigm to consumers with .NET. No one owns the idea, no one thought it up on their own. The more important question about these web-based services is: how far do you go with this idea? Think Free Office already is dependent on its links to the internet, and Office is sure to follow. Now, I don't like the idea of depending on Apple's servers any more than I would want that stuff on Microsoft's. The important thing here is that your important data is still local. We'll have to see if either MS or Apple understand the line between service and servitude.
post #39 of 138
You're a bunch of whining crybabies.

You can't get ANYTHING on the 'net for free anymore. Even game news sites like IGN and Gamespot have gone subscription. Jesus, SLASHDOT went subscription. Now Apple, our beloved fruit lord, comes out with their own subscription plan and you have the balls to bitch about it?

Part of the reason was because many of you assholes abused it. You set up a new iTools account whenever you wanted to add more space, instead of purchasing more. Hell, there were iTools accounts registered just to show off stupid spoof Switch ads. This is costing Apple money, and you now all suffer by having to pay full price for Jag and $99 for .Mac.

I honestly have no problem with paying for either, and can easily justify the costs for both, especially with the $50 rebate on the .Mac side of things.

Jag is more than just a point-release, and you God-damned know it. It's much bigger than the jump from 8 to 9, and probably even bigger a jump than 9 to 10, considering functionality. Sure, it may have "10.2" printed on the box, but that is simply because Apple wants to keep X going for as long as possible. You are the same people that point fingers at Microsoft for labeling their latest Windows version "XP," and going with a whole new naming scheme, when it offers minimal functionality over Win2000.

To say that .Mac is just email and iDisk is to say that you were actually trying to look down Ellen Feiss' shirt throughout the whole keynote and weren't actually paying attention to what Steve was talking about. This is just the beginning, and I can see .Mac getting implemented and adding functionality in a variety of ways to every key application in OS X. Think iPhoto's ordering model. It can only grow from there.

Besides, you're acting like Apple is charging an insane amount of money for their services. For bitching iTools members, you can start for a mere $50. That's just FIFTY BUCKS! Four dollars a month, and fifty cents per megabyte on your iDisk.

From the consensus around here, I gather that many of you are under 18. When you grow up, you'll find that fifty bucks is nothing. It's paper. Fifty bucks is paying for dinner at Friday's one night. Fifty bucks goes in a flash. To say that it deeply expands your Mac experience--and God, do we love our Macs--for an entire YEAR, Apple's subscription plans seems like pennies.

So get out there, credit card in hand, and turn on 1-Click for Christ's sake.
post #40 of 138
Unlike many here, I don't use mac.com e-mail. I do, however, use iDisk for off-site back-up of critical files. None of the other .Mac services are that appealing to me, and $99/year for just iDisk isn't worth it.

Since .Mac will only be $49 for the first year for current users, I'll sign up for that much. It's probably worth it to keep my iDisk and to get the anti-virus software. After that, Apple with have to provide more services that are useful to me (such as domain hosting and web hosting with CGI), or they'll have to provide a la carte services (say $20-$25/year for iDisk by itself)... or I'll just find another backup solution.
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