Piracy question.

There is nothing wrong with pirating. Besides, I don't think you are since you paid for a copy.

Just don't come back here and complain when your palms get hairy <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

[QUOTETigerWoods99]There is nothing wrong with pirating. [/QUOTE]


what kind of crack are you smoking? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: Dead Cillia ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>There is nothing wrong with pirating.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That explains the problems you keep having with your Mac.

Karma.

[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>

In copyright terms, making an unauthorised copy is piracy. Simple as that.

[quote]Originally posted by torifile:
<strong>Am I pirating Jag if I download it while I wait for my copy to get here?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Pirating is making a copy of a work (software, book, article, painting - anything copyrightable) without the consent or authorization of the copyright holder (Apple, in this case).

It makes common sense that, since you paid (or will pay, when it ships) for Jaguar, you should be allowed to copy it from somewhere else, but that's not the (legal) case.

If you're wondering whether Apple would care, think about it this way: if you asked one of Apple's lawyers whether what you want to do would be considered pirating, what do you think they would say?

1) I don't see a problem; in fact, I was just trying to do the same. Please let us all know if you find a good source for it!

2) As long as it's uninstalled, I don't see a problem there either. But if you use it for anything other than monkying around, then it's a problem.

I don't care what the law is, as long as you paid for it you should be able to do it.

Surely, since you're paying for a license to use the software, how you get the software shouldn't matter?

Amorya

You should be okay so long as you don't loan the CD's or disk images out. Or install them on more than one of your own Macs.

Not really. Prerelease software is just that - prerelease software. Developer seed builds are meant for those who pay for the ADC subscription, and all the other builds are for whoever Apple authorizes to use them. You pay $129 for the license to use the final release in CD packaged form, and that's it. If you want to get the occasional Dev Build that Apple releases to ADC, go pay $199/year for the ADC mailing.

Edit: Seems like many others have a slightly different opinion on piracy. My view is probably the legal view... if you try to rationalize it, you get the other points of view.

[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: MCQ ]</p>

I haven't used any of the Jaguar builds yet (just waiting around to get it through a student ADC mailing), so I don't know what Apple writes about each build, I'd imagine that all the builds (6C115 included) would probably have some stipulation in a readme that only testers and developers are supposed use it. You've already paid for it, so I don't really see the point in grabbing it early, you'll get it in two weeks. For me, the logic is if Apple thought it was okay for you to download it as soon as they declared a GM version, they'd offer a $129 download option. They didn't so they probably want you to wait for the boxed 10.2 to be delivered to you. If you want to get it just so that you can use it for another two weeks, that's up to you. I'm quite happy waiting to get it, it's gotta come sometime

Yeah, I was going to buy it through Apple's edu store, but I figure since I'm studying computer science I might as well get the student ADC membership, $99 isn't too much more... and should I decide to buy a PowerMac at any point (doubtful it'll be too soon, just got an iBook a month ago), I can use the once per life discount

[quote]Originally posted by spotbug:
<strong>

Pirating is making a copy of a work (software, book, article, painting - anything copyrightable) without the consent or authorization of the copyright holder (Apple, in this case).</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, by copyright law it's publishing (i.e., making available to the public) unauthorized copies of a work. I can make all the copies of a book that I want to as long as I don't start distributing them. US Copyright law was, until 1988, concerned exclusively with publication, and much of the law reflects that.

Now, you might violate the software's license agreement by making or downloading a copy, even if you keep it for yourself. But that's contract law, not copyright law.

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>Actually, by copyright law it's publishing (i.e., making available to the public) unauthorized copies of a work. I can make all the copies of a book that I want to as long as I don't start distributing them. US Copyright law was, until 1988, concerned exclusively with publication, and much of the law reflects that.

Now, you might violate the software's license agreement by making or downloading a copy, even if you keep it for yourself. But that's contract law, not copyright law.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, copyright law is concerned with copying, not publishing. Nowhere does it mention anything about publishing. It's all about making copies.

There is wording in copyright law that isn't beneficial to the copyright holder; things like fair use and backups and copyright time limits. Things the copyright holder can't dictate. For example, you are, regardless of license agreement, allowed to make a single backup copy of software for "safe keeping." Also, you are allowed to copy the software from the media it is stored on, to your computer's RAM so that you may use it (yes, that's actually in the law).

[quote]Originally posted by Spart:
<strong>You should be okay so long as you don't loan the CD's or disk images out. Or install them on more than one of your own Macs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Remeber that the original poster asked whether it's piracy, not whether it's "OK" or "not a problem" or whatever else. It is piracy. Having said that, I ordered my update but I'd accept a copy right now if I could get it by "some other means." But, I'd know full well I was pirating it. I just wouldn't feel bad about it.

what if i buy a copy of OS X J and install it in 2 Macs?

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>There is nothing wrong with pirating. Besides, I don't think you are since you paid for a copy. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Tiger,
How old are you??? Do you understand the law???

[quote]Originally posted by trevorM:
<strong>

Tiger,
How old are you??? Do you understand the law???
</strong><hr></blockquote>

torifile this should answer the obvious question you have submitted:

[quote] From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (09 FEB 02):

software theft

&lt;legal&gt; The unauthorised duplication and/or use of computer software. This usually means unauthorised copying, either by individuals for use by themselves or their friends or, less commonly, by companies who then sell the illegal copies to users. Many kinds of software protection have been invented to try to reduce software theft but, with sufficient effort it is always possible to bypass or "crack" the protection, and software protection is often annoying for legitimate users.

Software theft was estimated for 1994 to have cost $15 billion in worldwide lost revenues to software publishers. It is a serious offence under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, which states that "The owner of the copyright has the exclusive right to copy the work.".

It is illegal to:
1. Copy or distribute software or its documentation without the permission or licence of the copyright owner.
2. Run purchased software on two or morecomputers simultaneously unless the licence specifically allows it. 3. Knowingly or unknowingly allow, encourage or
pressure employees to make or use illegal copies sources within the organisation.
4. Infringe laws against unauthorised software copying because a superior, colleague or friend compels or requests it.
5. Loan software in order thata copy be made of it.
Software theft should be reported to the Federation Against Software Theft (FAST).

<hr></blockquote>

[ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: trevorM ]</p>

OOOPS

<img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />

[quote]Originally posted by torifile:
<strong>But why is it piracy?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Because the law says so. Copyright law is complex; it's not a one paragraph deal. However, the basic idea is that, when somebody creates a "work" they hold the sole right to copy the work - the copyrights. If you don't have this right, you may not copy the work. Of course, a copyright holder may authorize others to make copies - that's part of their rights; transfer, etc.

The intent of copyright law is for the betterment of society (like patent law). It allows creative individuals to make money creating works; this gets us more, higher-quality (hopefully) works. If there was no copyright law, you couldn't make a living creating the things that copyright protects.

Because copyright law was conceived with the idea of imrpoving society (rather than simply making money for creators), all sorts of exceptions were added: fair use, time limits, backups, etc., etc. Basically, trying to balance the rights of the copyright holder with the needs of the public.

[quote]<strong>That was really the point of my original post. I've ordered it, it's all but in the mail now, so don't I have a right to use it now?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You do not. There is nothing in copyright law that gives you this right and Apple (the holder), I'm sure, isn't going to give you the right until the (authorized) copy they send to you arrives at your door (and you accept the EULA, too, probably <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> ).

Seriously, just pirate it. You're not morally wrong for doing it, you're just breaking the law. You're probably breaking laws every day without even knowing it. There are so many of them and they're all so convoluted, it's impossible not to break laws. So go for it (I would) - as long as you don't decide to cancel your order after you pirate it. That would be morally wrong.