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iPod vs. Zen

post #1 of 25
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article:
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1040-961918.html?tag=fd_top_1" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1040-961918.html?tag=fd_top_1</a>

about zen:
<a href="http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox_Zen/" target="_blank">http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox_Zen/</a>

[quote]Only Creative Labs offers this speed and versatility with such a compact 20GB MP3 player.

The Zen offers up to 12 hours of continuous playback using the quick-charge battery, and the sleek aluminum body makes carrying your music even more fun. Combine these features and the versatility, and you will discover there could be no easier decision. The NOMAD Jukebox Zen is the best choice for compact, large-capacity MP3 music listening and file transfer.

Why is the Creative NOMAD Jukebox Zen right for you?

If you have been searching for a compact player with massive MP3 storage, your search is over! Get up to 20GB of music on your NOMAD Zen, and then listen to it anywhere for up to 12 hours. Want to create a playlist on the go? No need to be at your computer any longer! Just select songs, create and save your playlist and you're ready to tune in. Use your Zen to transfer files from your home computer to work or school by using the Zen as a portable hard drive. File transfer is speedier than ever with the SB 1394 FireWire or use the USB plug-in for basic transfer. Talk about compact! Pop the NOMAD Zen in your pocket or bag and you're ready to go. Add the large storage capacity, playlist flexibility, and speedy file transfer into the equation, and the only answer can be the Nomad Jukebox Zen.
<hr></blockquote>

i think its about time to take down the price of the iPoad 50-100 dollars. Its not unreasonable, and with this (although not as good as the iPod for many reasons) does threaten the iPod's xmas sales

[ 10-14-2002: Message edited by: ast3r3x ]</p>
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post #2 of 25
Nice to see they've saved you the bother of having to dent the corners... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Spec-wise, yes, it's right up there. Once agan, where Apple lead, others turn up and add more bells and whistles...
Whatever it is, it ain't rocket science
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post #3 of 25
20gig for $300 (after $50 rebate)?

Nice.
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post #4 of 25
sorry, but in my world, size=everything. or more exactly, lack of size=everything where an mp3 player is concerned.

now, not sure i'd want to pay another $200 just to have it weight 25% less, and be smaller, but so far i'm not seeing a real competitor.

a few notes.

it has a 16MB buffer, as opposed to a 32MB buffer. not that big of a deal, but that means twice as many gaps between songs on a cd as it reloads the cache.

however, it does record audio with an optional remote, and it looks like it has a radio. not too shabby.

for what i use it for the iPod is a bit better, but this is sure getting closer to home. i guess i'd want to try and navigate through it, and really mess with music libraries before i'd buy one. those are areas that are hard to put on a spec sheet, but make a huge difference in product usability.

i know some of their old products were a nightmare to navigate through.
post #5 of 25
It would have to seamlessly integrate with iTunes for me to even look at it. Does anyone know if that's on its plate?
post #6 of 25
No, it is a PC-only device for now. Whether it will go fully cross-platform like iPod did, who knows? In the meantime, perhaps it will mount like a drive so the files can be trasnferred manually.
One iMac G5, one iPod, many PCs.
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One iMac G5, one iPod, many PCs.
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post #7 of 25
LOOK AGAIN!

Zen:
Size W x H x D (mm)\t75.9 x 112.6 x 24.5 mm
Weight\t9.5 oz (268g) with built-in Li-ion battery

iPod:
Size W x H x D (mm) 61 x 101.6 x (18.3-21.3) mm
Weight\t(6.5-7.2) oz (185-204) g with built-in Li-ion battery

The Zen uses a regular 2.5" notebook HD, not the iPod's 1.7" drive. It is just slightly smaller than an Archos jukebox.

This is not a competing product.
post #8 of 25
Isn't it though? I mean seriously now. 2.3 ounces more weight, about 1.5cm wider, 1cm longer, and 3mm thicker. (compared to the 20GB iPod)

It is a competing product, for while it is a little bigger it is a lot cheaper. Both will comfortably go anywhere (based on those dimensions) for while the iPod is the size of small pack of kings, the Zen is about the size of a large pack of regulars. Considering the drive they use, quite impressive actually!
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post #9 of 25
It looks like a cool player and the price/spec is definitely right. Why is using a notebook HD a bad thing? Aren't they a tad quicker? Or is it the size? As for design, it's better than their previous creations but I am not too thrilled with the green trim (dark grey would have worked better). Also, even though this is small, it is still a bit too thick for my taste.

I am thinking about getting the 10GB iPod. Damn it Apple, WHY can't the iPod have a Ti (like) matte finish? That would be SO cool and appeal to SO many more people who don't really like anything white (like myself). It would also conceal scratches and wear better! Wouldn't an iPod with a matte Ti finish and Apple's new shiny chrome (small) logo look nice and sharp?
post #10 of 25
Holy Christ, it's INSANELY BIGGER than the iPod, they aren't even in the same ballpark.

The Zen will break my spinal cord if I attempt to carry it, have you seen what a 2.3oz difference can do to a man's skeletal structure?

I can feel the tendons tearing already!

<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

Here's what Creative was offering before:
Nomad Jukebox 3 (20GB)

Dimensions(WxHxD): 5"x5"x1.5" (127x127x38.1mm)
Weight 14 oz (w/out batteries)

vs.

Creative Zen
Size W x H x D (mm) 75.9 x 112.6 x 24.5 mm
Weight 9.5 oz (268g) with built-in Li-ion battery


Dimensions of the highly-popular Sony CD Walkman:

Dimensions(WxHxD):
5 3/8 x 1 1/8 x 5 3/8 (135.5x29.2x137.4mm)
Weight: 7 oz (185g) w/out batteries or CD

Not only is it competition, but it's got a few advantages and the size/weight isn't all that dissimilar.
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post #11 of 25
Minor correction - iPod uses a Toshiba 1.8", not a 1.7", drive. Right now Toshiba is the only mass producer of that drive. When other manufacturers get into that market, we can expect to see, hopefully, cheaper iPods and other more compellin products.
One iMac G5, one iPod, many PCs.
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One iMac G5, one iPod, many PCs.
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post #12 of 25
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Holy Christ, it's INSANELY BIGGER than the iPod, they aren't even in the same ballpark.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The difference is bigger than it looks on paper. Just look at the Canon S200 and Canon S330. The difference is even less substantial...a couple millimeters in each dimension, but it just feels so much bigger, especially for something you intend to keep in your pocket.

Even the extra millimeters and ounces on my 20 GB iPod are noticeable over my old 5 GB.
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post #13 of 25
i believe if you do a volume comparison, the Zen is 50% larger. that's a chunk.
post #14 of 25
They'll both go in a pocket, sure the iPod is the more svelte of the two, but let's be honest, the Zen isn't a pig either.
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post #15 of 25
Where do you get 50%?

I see it being much closer to 15%.
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post #16 of 25
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Where do you get 50%?

I see it being much closer to 15%.</strong><hr></blockquote>

For those of you too lazy to figure this out for yourself, the iPod is 59% the size of the zen.

This was calculated using the dimensions posted earlier and averaging the two iPod sizes. (58.606054206376349288653603382816% to be more precise)

[ 10-17-2002: Message edited by: dfiler ]</p>
post #17 of 25
I don't get???

The effect is miniscule, yes, the Zen is bigger, but it's not bigger than the Minidisc players and Walkmen people carry everywhere. Ultimately, given the savings, the Zen looks very good. 1.8" drives are a good choice for ultimate portability, but 2.5" drives may end up being the best comprimise between capacity, portability and price.
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post #18 of 25
"It's not bigger than the MiniDisc players..."?

Uh, I don't know what model MD you've ever seen.

The iPod is 59% the size of the Zen by volume. Put another way, that means that the Zen is 69.5% bigger than the iPod!

69.5%. Not 50% Not 59%.

Where might you get that estimate of 15%, Groverat?

70% is a hell of a lot bigger. Oh, yeah, Groverat is a Texan (or at least lives there), right? No WOOOONDER!

As I recall, Grover, weren't you arguing in favor of the 14" iBook?

Obviously for you, size doesn't matter. But for most of us, it absoluteloy does. I definitely can feel the 46% difference between 6.5 and 9.5 ounces when it's hanging around my neck (I use an iSkin) or attached to my belt. Can't you?

I like my iPod because I CAN carry it around my neck, hang it on my belt or put it in my jeans or shirt pocket. The Zen is not a competing product. You can't hang it on your neck, and it won't fit in any but a jacket pocket (I bet you wear lots of jackets in Texas! )

That "little" 69.5% makes a huge difference when it limits how you can use the device as much as this.
post #19 of 25
I just redid the math and the Zen is 84% bigger by volume than the 10GB iPod.
post #20 of 25
You're quite pissy today.

It's smaller than my CD walkman, which I carry either in the pocket of my jeans or my backpack. I wear very loose clothing, so it being smaller than what I'm used to would actually be a plus.

How in God's name is it not a competing product? Because "you can't wear it around your neck"? Who can't wear it? Who has tried?

Hyperbole v. real-life application... hrmm... I wonder which one matters.

It's much smaller than what millions of people already carry around yet... it's... too big? hmm

You ever tried carrying a Zen around? Or do you have gram weights and papier-mache that you attached to your iPod to test?
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post #21 of 25
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>You're quite pissy today.

It's smaller than my CD walkman, which I carry either in the pocket of my jeans or my backpack. I wear very loose clothing, so it being smaller than what I'm used to would actually be a plus.

How in God's name is it not a competing product? Because "you can't wear it around your neck"? Who can't wear it? Who has tried?

Hyperbole v. real-life application... hrmm... I wonder which one matters.

It's much smaller than what millions of people already carry around yet... it's... too big? hmm

You ever tried carrying a Zen around? Or do you have gram weights and papier-mache that you attached to your iPod to test? </strong><hr></blockquote>

1. Are you all fskcing retarded? Any hard drive MP3 player is a competing product to any other hard drive MP3 player. Jesus.

2. Grove- you said that the weight/volume diff wouldn't matter- clearly to you it doesn't, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't to a lot of us, and it doesn't mean that ton can't feel it. C'mon, if you have to two in your hand/pocket it's going to be obvious which is which, and which is more comfortable. That's all he is saying, or at least, that's all he should be saying.

[ 10-18-2002: Message edited by: serrano ]</p>
post #22 of 25
[quote]Originally posted by tonton:
<strong>
The iPod is 59% the size of the Zen by volume.
...[snip]...
69.5%. Not 50% Not 59%.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Uh... hmmm

Okay Mr. Hyde

post #23 of 25
Up to twelve hours of battery life with a note book hard drive?

Maybe with the volume all the way down...and some 96kbs MP3's.

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #24 of 25
My friends old Nomad 2 had an advertise battery life of I believe it was 6 hours...the longest it ever lasted for him(he listened to his music at 1/2-3/4 max volume) the batteries lasted 4 hours max...that was pathetic.
moral of the story
creative is very tricky with their marketing.

my friend hated the nomad 2 and got a 10 gig iPod instead.
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post #25 of 25
This is going to cut into iPod sale. The Zen's form factor is small enough, and it is a lot cheaper.

The competition is only going to tougher in the upcoming months. I hope that Apple has a hefty margin on the iPods, because they are going to have to lower their prices soon.
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