Best part of the yao commercial

I totally agree. Long on style/cuteness/giggles...short on substance or info.

I, for one, refuse to believe that the two sides can't be married: a nice-looking, attention-getting spot that actually says or tells something to the uninitiated, Mac-ignorant public.

Seems so obvious.

They don't have one commercial touting OS X and/or the iApps. That just blows my mind.

:confused:

Unless you're a current Mac user, chances are you have no idea about either of those things (and how they might make using a computer fun and cool).

Apple routinely drops the ball, IMO, when it comes to their advertising. Yes it's nice and well-shot and is often chuckle-inducing.

But that's simply not enough. They seem content to just scratch the surface and trust people to fill in the gaps on their own.

That's not how people work, especially when faced with something new and different (like an alternative OS and computing experience).

Something should be done, in the commercials, to make people truly sit up and go "holy smoke! I didn't know you could [fill in the blank] with a Mac!"

Just my two cents. Sound like a broken record, I know.



But I'm right.



[ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>

I guess Apple's strategy is to get potential switchers to get interested in the hardware first. Once these people go to the Apple stores to take a look, the customer officers will do their job in introducing OS X.

My guess for such a strategy is that it is difficult to sell an OS using commercials cos time is too short and time is money.

Well, I still think that you will have rather limited success if any if you try to demonstrate the OS, how things work, etc. You simply cannot get anything so substantial across in 30 seconds. I'm sure if Apple ever does decide to showcase OS X, the iApps, or other software, it will be universally criticized as eye-candy. By the time you introduce the thing and what it does, the commercial is over. And a PC can do everything a Mac can do, so that won't sway too many by itself. Apple did entire infomercials to try to demonstrate the user friendliness of the Mac OS back in the Amelio era, and even then they were not effective. No 30 second sound bite could possibly live up to people's expectations here.

Let's face facts: you can't communicate anything as involved as the Mac OS on the boob tube. You can toss up a few screenshots in action, and hope the Genie Effect blows then away.

[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>
They don't have one commercial touting OS X and/or the iApps. That just blows my mind.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

What about "Elope" toting iDVD, or "Baby Jack" pushing iPhoto? A lot of the switch ads mention any number of the iApps. I don't see where your statement comes from.

I agree: Apple needs to do a better job. I think they're getting better -- I've certainly seen the Yao/MiniMe ad a whole lot more than any of their past ads. But I also agree that it would be hard and impractical to have an OS X ad. What are you going to show, really? How the dock works?

They need ads showing how real people can do things better with a Mac than a PC. They're doing it...but they need to do it more.

They don't show it either, Cosmo. They talk about it, mention it vaguely in "Baby Jack" or whatever, but never really come out and show a cool, real-life scenario or usage.

And no, guys...I don't think 30 seconds is enough to show OS X or "wow" anyone with the genie effect.



But, as I said in my original post, I also refuse to believe that there isn't a way to combine the "cute and catchy" with the more meaty, informative side of things.

That's all.

Also, someone above mentioned something about people "seeing the ads then going to the Apple stores...".

I'd bet large sums of cash that most people who aren't current Mac users and somewhat "in the know" regarding Apple don't have the first clue that these stores even exist.

I talk to people all the time (neighbors, co-workers, buddies, family members, etc.) and when I tell them of the Apple stores they're all (every single one) going "what? Apple has a store? Bullcrap...where?"



No, I don't want to see infommercials either, but I'm convinced there's something more that could be done. Citing "Baby Jack" and "Elope" as high marks isn't quite what I had in mind. You see a couple frolicking around on the beach, getting hitched by some island gut, etc. Then you see - for MAYBE 2-3 seconds - the guy sitting at his computer. Then you see the parents watching a DVD.

Yeah, WE know it's about iDVD and SuperDrives and all. But I can guarantee you no one else does.

Same with "Baby Jack" (which, BTW, I believe I saw on TV ONE time...). You think you're watching outtakes from "ER" or something. Nothing wrong with that...it's a sweet commercial. But unless you're already "in the Mac camp", you don't know what he's really doing or what he's using to do it (or that iPhoto comes on every Mac).

So yeah, they're good. They're watchable. But I don't think they're making any serious waves. I think they can do more. You see commercials all the time (car commercials, in particular) that combine snazzy, attractive footage and production design and/or humor with a little more substance or info or "this X can do Y..." type of stuff.

That's all I'd like to see. No big deal. Just a little more aggressive and rounded out.

Most of all, here's the thing: this isn't just ME, as an Apple fan/supporter, bitching because of what I like or think: I make it a point to ask the people above (friends, family, co-workers, etc.) about Apple ads and marketing and try to guage their appeal of effectiveness. 8 out of 10 times it seems things don't click or go over their heads or - as I've been told on numerous occasions - make them go "So? Big deal...".

That's not ME saying that or pulling it out of them. Those are current PC users and fence sitters (and potential switchers). I'm constantly filling in the blanks and providing them with info (and dispellng the myths) that Apple themselves should be doing a bit more of.

I wrote this in another thread, but I'll say it again: Apple recently did that little "myth debunking" thing, which - to be honest - I thought was LONG overdue and a really great idea. Did they base a print campaign around it (sticking it in Time, Entertainment Weekly, Rolling Stone, etc. where people who aren't current Mac users will actually see it and learn)? No. Did they make a cool, clever commercial or two based on it and run it during "ER", "West Wing" and various sporting events? No.

They stuck it on their website somewhere not easily found (although, to their credit, it eventually ended up at the Switch section of their site...but initially it wasn't). And they printed nice little booklet things about it and gave them...at the Apple stores.

As I state above, a TON of people (possible new customers) don't know these stores even exist so they're not going to even come in to pick up this little "myth debunking" brochure.

Just little lapses like that.

No, not the end of the world. But I'd expect better, more comprehensive and forceful advertising and marketing. Especially in light of Apple's own stated goal of "switching" people and getting Mac ownership up beyond 5% (or whatever that number happens to be).

[ 02-07-2003: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>

What about "Who Let The Dogs Out"?

That one kind of oozed iAppness... iMovie was the main character there (not to mention all the little gizmos the guy pulled out)

Now, a movie like that would be nice for iPhoto... Say a kid is visiting somewhere and puts together a web page/slide show for his parents' over the internet, showing him in front of a bunch of attractions in another country, so they never find out he's in the Canal district in Amsterdam losing his, um... innocence...

Well, you know what I mean... Make it the main feature by showing how someone is using it, instead of just focussing on its features.

[quote]Originally posted by Paul:
<strong>

BINGO

the only people that know of the stores are the people I dragged, the people i told and the two people that happened upon them in palisades...

i doubt anyone else knows...</strong><hr></blockquote>
A lot of my friends go in the Apple Store. Some of them I forced to go in there when they said Macs suck (and it changed their opinions), but a lot of them go in by themselves because everything's "so cool" looking or because they wanna go on AOL in there.

Okay, I'll give it to you that Apple needs to have more ads...well, ANY ads that push their retail stores. When it comes to ads like "Elope" and "Baby Jack," though, I think you're missing the point.

Apple SHOULDN'T make "Baby Jack" sound like this:

"See this Jack, this is a Mac running a program called iPhoto. It comes on every computer from Apple, and it helps Daddy sort photos better, run slide shows, and even order prints or a book online."

:eek: That would SUCK! But that's what you are suggesting.

Ads like "Baby Jack" and "Elope" are teasers: They put individuals in a special moment, and show those individuals doing something sentimental with a Mac. Audiences look at the ads and say "wow, that was neat! Apple must be doing cool stuff with their products. You know, I've always liked how stylish Macs are...."

Later, they hop on the web and think, "Oh, let me stop by Apple.com" or while their in the mall "Hey, let's stop by the Apple store."

They're teasers...they get people thinking about Apple. Baby steps, my friends. Apple's getting there.

EDIT: Proper usage of their, there, and they're

[ 02-07-2003: Message edited by: CosmoNut ]</p>

Well, no. I, too, don't want a stupid, patronizing ad or commercial from them either.

As I said above (twice now) I fully believe there's a way to combine their style and emotional impact with more meat and potatos. That's ALL I'm saying.



Anyone who honestly thinks Apple's commercials over the past three years are perfect and amazing and are not subject to improvement...well, I just don't even know if I can know you.



Just kidding.

We all agree that they could be better: whether in frequency, style, tone, impact, substance, etc.

The problem with product-centered ads is that the form has long since been hijacked by people describing crap with superlatives. How would an Apple ad describing the ease with which you can create multimedia differ in substance from the ads released by Intel, Microsoft, Dell, Compaq, etc.?

In the blog entry I linked to in my "Now -this- is a Switch ad" thread, the guy comes out and says that he assumed that the included apps were junk designed to make you fork out for the commercial versions, because that's what he's used to as a longtime Windows user. They're already jaded to the capabilities of such things, and the MS ads that make using XP look like a heroin high in never-never-land only reinforce that. You have to actually sit down and use the apps yourself to see that Apple does in fact try to do what everyone else says they try to do.

In this regard, the Switch ads are probably as good as you'll get, just because they actually are end-user testimonials (however edited) rather than pure marketing fluff. A good ad agency can make just about anything look like a life enhancement, given 30 seconds.

[ 02-07-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>

I just had a good idea for a commercial...now where is FCE ? I'll be back in some days.

[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>As I said above (twice now) I fully believe there's a way to combine their style and emotional impact with more meat and potatos. That's ALL I'm saying.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Can you write an example of what you're saying? Have fun with it! Let's know the visuals, spoken text, etc. that you'd have. <img src="graemlins/cancer.gif" border="0" alt="[cancer]" />

Oh, Amorph, good point. We don't need another AOL-like commercial.

[ 02-07-2003: Message edited by: CosmoNut ]</p>

I'm not really a marketing or advertising guy. I don't know how good I would be at that. I could try, I guess?

I do know that I watch commercials for cars or electronic components and so forth and - between the style/look and what is being shown, demonstrated or talked about - I get very interested and turned-on (to the point that I go to websites for automobiles or digital devices that I could never afford or would imagine purchasing otherwise).



Maybe I'm just too close to it and expect too much? Maybe the Switch ads and the Mini Me spot and the "Rip, Mix & Burn" and "Middle Seat" ads have more of an impact than I could possibly imagine? Maybe to people currently not up on (or into) Apple and Macs, these ads truly speak to them and do intrigue them?

I don't know.

But I still have the examples of the friends, co-workers and family who see this stuff and go "yeah...and?".



All I know is that surely an OS as snazzy as X is and with cool "digital lifestyle" apps as cool as the iApps, there would have to be a way for a clever, talented writer or director to convey this stuff in a cool, humorous and/or mind-blowing way that REALLY kicked interest in Apple gear and "switching" into high gear.

I can't get specific right now, but just some things I've always imagined:

1. Celebrity spokespeople (or person). Yeah, I'm about fed up with celebrities and all the idiot shows that talk about their lives, but, fact is, tons of people aren't, and respond to what Joe Famous says, how they say it, what they seem to like or buy, etc. Just a universal truth, I think. Gillian Anderson, Don Cheadle, Sheryl Crow, Lawrence Fishburn, Conan O'Brien, etc. are some of the people (or types of people) that viewers might respond to: not quite "out there" or polarizing, BUT not blandly "mainstream" or boring. There isn't a person on this board who would gripe at the sight of Gillian Anderson, all dressed in black and with cool music in the background, slinking up to the camera cradling a PowerBook and cooing about how it's made her life easier, more fun, more organized, etc. and why she's a Mac user and so forth.



If anyone disagrees with the above, you're just doing it to argue with me because, deep down, you know it would be cool as hell.



2. Things that OS X does that make using computers kinda easier and less of a hassle: Rendezvous (hassle-free networking). Could there not be a humorous "real life" situation depicted where someone struggles with all the things that face computer users (networking, configuring, attachments, getting various digital devices to work, etc.) and that made into a serious of clever, attractive spots? The little cutie-pie who talks about "saving Christmas" and all. Situations like that, done with humor or flair. Even understated: show someone struggling to get their digital camera to download or whatever (like everyone has struggled with at some point, it seems) and just have their friend of family member reach over, grab the camera, plug it into their Mac (AND give the hardware generous face-time since it looks so damn good) and show the photos loading and getting organized and so forth.

I've said before that the exact things Jobs himself does onstage at the Macworld keynotes - all the stuff that makes everyone "ooh" and "ahh". Why couldn't those things be tightened and condensed down to cool 30-second scenes? Not footage from the keynote, of course. But that same type of demo, only with people acting out scenarios or with a celebrity walking up to the camera, saying some clever or witty about digital cameras or digital video and then proceeding to pop in a cable and do their thing.

I've seen amazing things done in the space of 30-second commercials, so it's not like anyone can say "yeah, but 30 seconds isn't enough time...". That's why you hire good writers and video editors and directors with vision, who can all make the absolute most of those 30 seconds.

I don't know either. All I know is that I have always thought Apple had extremely nice commercials (myself being, like most of you, somewhat of a Mac fetishist). This winning streak was broken by the boring stupidity of the switch ads, where people talked about what some computers couldn't do. I mean, just think of mainstream television watchers, with little interest in computers. Nothing happens, no products are shown, white backgrounds, not really shocking, nothing, fluff. Yuk. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

The other ads however, like the middle seat one, I think that's a perfect ad: the ibook, aimed at active and young people, and you see the ibook really in all its glory, doing what it's meant to do: a guy listening to music, burning cds, editing his home video on an airplane. I've never been a real ibook fan (despite the fact that... I'm typing on one which I can call my own) but even despite that, I had a sudden craving to get one and take a long plainride.

I mean: the difference: you see the product in the situation it was meant to be in, and this, moreover, highly stylized: handsome but not stunning people using it, the wires still wires, but plugging into the computer naturally. The screen bright, the biotope, an airplane, fitting in a very nice way.

The Yao commercial is another type of commercial, though on a plane as well. This is not really showing of the product as it was meant, but more a piggy back ride, using two very famous people and their specifics to make a kind of 'punny', comic ad. Well, you'll all have noticed what it was about.

Show more of the OS, or make it known what it is? I think that's very hard to do in 30 seconds. Wasn't this what the Switch ads tried? I don't know.

Bottom line, for me: an ad like 'middle seat' is perfect, because it shows how beautiful and useful the product is. An ad like the yao is funny. An ad like the switch ad (where you deal more with the intrinsics of what it is to own a mac) is bullshit, because that's really when people get up to go and have a piss, or get another beer from the fridge. 'oh, it's that damned drug girl again. I'm going for a shite.'