Newton Forum

Not likely considering MacNN's own PDA forum doesn't get much traffic to boot.

I second that.

I was really surprised to see this come up. While I would love to see a Newton forum, of course, I know that I tried to get one up a long time ago with lots of support and failed.

I'm thinking that this request will be shot down and we'll be told to post in Current Hardware like usual.

Nice try though.

Fight the power! It's worth a try.

Guys...

we are debating whether or not to add new forums. PDA/Peripherals/Etc would seem to be the area most not covered in the current structure, although a case could be made....

Newton doesn't belong in Current Hardware. . . it belongs in Dead Hardware.

I don't think any of us want that, and here's why: the only thing that will get posted in the forum will be three "Hey I have a Newton! Y3Y!!!!" posts and seven or so "Newton is dead"/"Will Apple EVER bring Newton back?!?!"/"I thought AppleInsider was about new hardware and Apple rumors? the Newton is older than old news!" type threads. It will be an embarrassment--not only to this forum, but to Newton users everywhere.

How about a few well-placed Newton-centric threads, instead? We've already got quite a few forums to fill up, you know.

*sigh.*

I was just wondering how long it would take for this to come up.

My only surprise was that Fran was not the instigator this time. :eek:


Cheers.

NEWTON FORUM!!

Oh yeah - like how all future hardware is normally stuff like "hey Mac OS X on x86."

Cause in all honesty thats all that was in there for like two months.

You can't claim that a forum won't succeed until you put it up.

The fact that the admins killed it or whatever happened right after it was put up just shows me that either they don't like Newtons or don't care to hear our requests.

Hey Admins?

Anyone want to talk about this one? I can be reached at denstene@mac.com and would love to discuss it. Fact is giving it a chance can't hurt. I don't know you guys and you don't know me so please don't assume anything negative based on this post. I just think that to immediately take the forum down - especially without any note or explanation was rash.

Here is my basic case for a Newton forum:

Most Mac users think that Newton is dead. Most computer users think that Apple/Macintosh is dead. So how does Apple/Mac get exposure? How does it show people it is vibrant?

Websites, retail stores, unique ideas, and uses, thats how.

AppleInsider is justified because Apple/Mac needs special coverage, otherwise Mac should just be a discussion kept on PC boards, after all a Mac is a personal computer.

But no, we say Apple/Macintosh deserves special coverage. And so does Newton, because if Newton is only discussed in current hardware and tech support then it does not change peoples' views, it does not show them it is viable.

Fact is people are still developing for the Newton - see the topics in this forum. And that is something to talk about.

Mac and Newton are very similar - many PC users don't even think Apple is in business anymore, no one thinks that any hardware or software is developed for it or compatible with it. When the reality is that right now there is more software and hardware for Macintosh than there ever has been.

Enter Newton:

No one develops for it - Wrong, ATA Flash Card drivers are in beta 10 as of their next pending release, an MP3 solution is on its way, software development continues.

No one sells anything for it - Wrong, there are still several producers of Newton cases, stands, cradles, styli, and other add-ons.

Newton is a dead platform - By definition this is incorrect, the above two cases prove that is it a live platform as it is continuing to be developed for even though Apple stopped supporting it.

No one uses a Newton - Simply not true, visit <a href="http://www.unna.org" target="_blank">www.unna.org</a> or <a href="http://www.thisoldnewt.com" target="_blank">www.thisoldnewt.com</a> and you will see that plenty of people use Newtons still, even the older 1x0 models. Or see the several posts that were put up before the forum was hidden.

I don't mean to come off as abrasive, just want to talk about this in the open.

Sorry if my last post was angry sounding, had to get it out.

I don't know what the harm is in trying a Newton forum.

I would like to hear thoughts both for and against it so I can know where people are coming from.

While I don't deny that development of the Newton continues, part of what made AppleInsider great was the fact that all the forums and members were so closely knit together. MacNN is a different kind of forum, where each forum basically is a separate community in and of itself. Not so with AppleInsider, where everyone posts everywhere, generally, which is also why the same four moderators moderate all the forums. It's just more closely knit (there are also fewer members, of course).

The Newton, while undoubtedly a topic of interest, is not a big enough topic of interest to warrant a completely new forum. Newton posts should be relegated to either of the two hardware forums; whichever is deemed appropriate. There's simply not enough behind the Newton to warrant its own forum (one forum for all current Apple hardware, and then one forum for the Newton? Don't think so), and it would just screw up AI to have one forum with drastically fewer posts.

It's in AI's interest to keep the community cohesive, and a Newton forum doesn't work in that interest.

Sorry, but it's not happening anytime soon.

Thread reopened by member request.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Bogie

I can see may be a PDA forum.. but not just a newton forum. That would be silly. Lets start up a Mac TV forum. And a Color Classic forum.

Just to back up the big cheese on this, there is plenty of room in General Discussion and Current Hardware to discuss Newton issues. That is where people take their questions/comments about Palms, printers, digital cameras and other stuff. I promise not to crap in any Newton threads that may appear

So ... back to the discussion.

As far as cohesive community goes I think gzl has a valid point.

But - where do Mac OS X and Gaming Chat enter into here?

I recall when Mac OS X was created as a forum, it was do to two reasons that I can tell.

1) Practicality - every Future Software and soon after Current Software thread was in reference to Mac OS X, nothing else got discussed, had to be done.

2) Member request - people asked and wanted a dedicated forum for Mac OS X, the new OS is a big deal and deserved the lime light the forum gives it.

There have been draw backs to this, the segmentation that occurs does leave some people still posting Mac OS X stuff in Current Software, and rightly so as anything not dealing exclusively with Mac OS X [say using other software with it] does belong in Current Software and could end up in either place fairly.

Strangely enough Gaming Chat is a horse of a different color and is the best reason in my mind for a Newton forum.

Gaming Chat came about rather randomly, there were some member requests but not a phenomenal amount as there were with the Mac OS X forum. Gaming topics were also not over taking the Current Software forums.

With regards to Gaming Chat it just kind of makes sense to separate it from Current Software. The general thread topics of Current Software revolve around productivity software and integration of different applications. Gaming Chat allows gamers to ask for tips and discuss performance without getting in the way of something that is completely separate - ie the general topics of Current Software. This way neither one competes with each other.

Gaming Chat has never needed to be broken into Future Games and Current Games, and most likely never will be. This is due to the fact that Gaming Chat has always been AppleInsider's smallest [read less used] forum. It is doubtful it will ever grow much larger than it is or require expansion.

A Newton forum would probably not be any larger than Gaming Chat. Fact is less people own Newtons than play games. But that does not imply that it will be used less as more people after a certain people does not mean more topics. What really determines the use of a forum is how much there is to say about something. This part is harder to determine without visiting some of the major Newton sites or finding out what current development is like - both of which are much more active than I thought two weeks ago.

Taking all of this into account one can suggest that a Newton forum will segment Current Hardware and Current Software but according to the posts lately in the Newton titled threads in several forums it is obvious that several things are true:

1) Like games, those members not interested in Newton topics think that such threads get in the way of the topics they care about.

"The Newton was cool.. it's dead now. Get on with your life." - Sinewave

2) There is a rising in the number of AI members who own and use Newtons - there is one thread in which several members express that they have just bought Newtons and really want to talk about them.

<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000008" target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000008</a>

and

<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000069" target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000069</a>

3) AI Members who are interested in Newtons do not believe that they fit into any of the existing forums and are therefore hesitant to post topics regarding them in the existing forum system:

"Okay, so it's not current hardware. So sue me. All Newton users gather here." - ctt1wbw

This indicates that more people would post Newton topics if a forum existed and that the number of existing Newton threads in existing forums is not a fair estimate of Newton interest at AI.

I think that a Newton forum would be small - never get bigger than Gaming Chat, but that is all relative, none of us are talking about killing Gaming Chat because it is small or killing Mac OS X because it is segmenting our community. And both of those are fair concerns [the 2nd more than the 1st].

Well, that got long winded so please throw out some responses.

I think we should hunt down..and kill all Newton users as a forum.

I think you should keep that opinion to yourself.

[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong>I think you should keep that opinion to yourself.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bogie is right on one point, the OSX forum is kind of frivolous, maybe a MacOS forum to deal with MacOS specific issues and a Software forum to deal with software issues.

A Newton forum would be less useful than a sports forum, in my opinion. You'll get maybe one thread a week from a Newton forum. (And both of those would be far less useful than a Windows forum )

I think we should have a Windows forum too. Name it "Windows Sucks"

So does anyone have a constructive objection or are you just going to argue that "NO ONE WILL POST THERE, NO ONE WILL POST THERE!"

Cause that is not real creative.

Doesn't matter if it's creative or not. It's the truth

yeah well i doint likke the color of woutr hair so there ahahahhahashfkjsda;f its funny shit, how many posts u gots now sin=ewave? keep picking on me, tell me about how my iuntersts aren t imporant, yeah that will get ur post count up owotn it? whatgever man, get a drink, get a lady and get a life. i like newtons, why are you bothering me to begin with? dont you have better things to fo with your life?

playu some music, make a painting, do flisppen somehting

[quote]Originally posted by Bogie:
<strong>yeah well i doint likke the color of woutr hair so there ahahahhahashfkjsda;f its funny shit, how many posts u gots now sin=ewave? keep picking on me, tell me about how my iuntersts aren t imporant, yeah that will get ur post count up owotn it? whatgever man, get a drink, get a lady and get a life. i like newtons, why are you bothering me to begin with? dont you have better things to fo with your life?

playu some music, make a painting, do flisppen somehting</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would respond to this but I have no idea what your saying. Someone take this kids Halloween candy away from him

I was slightly drunk when I wrote that ... but the main meaning was:

1) why do you keep hasselling any thread with a Newton topic?

2) don't you have anything better to do with your life?

I mean heck man, I, obviously, went out and had way too good of a time last nite, stumbled back here, ate some M&M cookies, posted some really cracked out responses and then passed out. But here I look the next day [still hung over] and all I see is you posting "Newton threads suck" stuff.

sigh ... and you are telling Newton users to move on, if its a dead, boring platform you don't care about stop bothering us.

[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Bogie is right on one point, the OSX forum is kind of frivolous, maybe a MacOS forum to deal with MacOS specific issues and a Software forum to deal with software issues.</strong><hr></blockquote>

good point!

What about a digital hub forum?
(Newtons/ipods/digital cameras/PDAs etc - basically anything that adds functionality and productivity enhancement to your Mac)

I can agree with a digital hub forum - like many people I had hoped the iPod would be a next generation PDA. For me a Newton Message Pad is still a head of its time in many areas but it does not do everything I had hoped for in an expected release that was of course too good to be true.

I digital hub forum would allow for people to ask and discuss a variety of related topics about Apple and Mac related hardware/software that isn't Macintosh. It would be flexible and could include diverse interests - implying that it would get more traffic than a solely Newton forum would.

I think having a digital hub topic would be a good idea. But Newton having it's own topic is silly. In the digital hub topic you can discuss the newton as well as all the other products out there.

See I am not totally unreasonable. It's this newton having it's own topic thing that is a tad silly.

Sinewave, its getting old, it doesn't affect your life. Even when you say "I like a Digital Hub Forum idea" its just so that you can have another chance to say "I don't like Newtons." Why do you bother?

I like Newtons and I agree that having a forum just for Newtons is silly. Should we have a Pippin forum too?

Newton discussion belongs in Current Hardware - where everyone else with obsolete hardware posts.

[quote]Originally posted by Bogie:
<strong>Sinewave, its getting old, it doesn't affect your life. Even when you say "I like a Digital Hub Forum idea" its just so that you can have another chance to say "I don't like Newtons." Why do you bother?</strong><hr></blockquote>

And having a newton forum somehow effects your life? I sure hope as hell not. I like Newtons .. Hell I am a FAN of the Newton. But it's outdated.. not supported anymore. Hel I can't even connected to my outdated G3.

[quote]Originally posted by MacAgent:
<strong>I like Newtons and I agree that having a forum just for Newtons is silly. Should we have a Pippin forum too?

Newton discussion belongs in Current Hardware - where everyone else with obsolete hardware posts.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah and lets start a open-doc forum! hehe

Bogie? Sinewave? MacAgent? Any other arguments to put forth? Looks like we're all just repeating ourselves.

From what I have read thus far, I don't believe there is a valid reason to open a Newton forum.

[quote]Originally posted by Nick:
<strong>Bogie? Sinewave? MacAgent? Any other arguments to put forth? Looks like we're all just repeating ourselves.

From what I have read thus far, I don't believe there is a valid reason to open a Newton forum.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, it appears not Nick - but what about a digital hub forum? I think it has merits!

Can we post that up as a fresh topic and see if it flies?

Mac+, please do so.

This issue is closed.