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New PowerMac pictures leaked - Page 6

post #201 of 689
Now if only someone would leak the (accurate) specs.

Why is there so much emphasis on cooling? Is it because we're going to see single 1GHz, dual 1GHz and QUAD 1GHz models?

Apple can now get 1GHz G4s in quantity and cheaply.

Who's got the specs?

What ATA?
What speed RAM?
What max RAM?
What speed system bus?
What speed AGP?
What speed PCI?
What speed FireWire (Although the FireWire ports look like the 400Mbps kind -- the 800Mbps kind reportedly use a different plug. No new FireWire?)
post #202 of 689
if you cant get better chips... just multiply them! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #203 of 689
Could anyone estimate how many 7455's this rumored cooling system could handle? 4? 8? 16? 32?
post #204 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Nebagakid:
<strong>if you cant get better chips... just multiply them! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>


This is what I see for the near future, the complete powermac line having dual (or more) G4s.

I agree that this will be about 80% of what we'll see released next. Why the same style case???....because it'll still house G4s.

That's what I think at least.
post #205 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by little mouse:
<strong>so, any photoshop wizards up to the task of virtualy taking off the plastic rap and trying to get it to look like it might with it off?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Kinda like a real trashy takeoff on the dancing iMac, we could have Saran wrapped new G4 dancing on stage and Macnuts crowding close waving bills in the air and yelling "Take it off!" It starts to strut and peel....
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post #206 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights:
<strong>When I saw the photos I thought aloud, ...why the new layout? Then I saw the reason...its cause of the weight, the seven-pound heatsink. Putting it low makes the case more stable, although I dont know how theyd route the cables.

So why do they need such a big chunk of steel?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've been thinking abotu this heatsink, and I just don't see it.

First off, a seven-pound heatsink of (even remotely) typical design would be massive enough to cause structural problems. It's great stuff, but it's NOT meant to bear that kind of weight!

Second off, heat sinks would most likely be aluminum: it's extremely lightweight, low-mass, and a highly efficient heat conductor; it would therefore be far preferable to steel or iron, which are renowned for holding heat (not a desirable property in a heatsink!).

If we want to take seriously the notion of a 7# heatsink, however, we have to (*ahem*) 'think different'.

So let's assume that the pics & the PDF are information. What do we know?

PDF sez "Turbo cooling", 4 front airvents placed low, a side-blowing fan, "triple layer side panel, for ventilation", "4" variable speed turbine fan".

PDF shows an area devoted to a "very large" 7-lb heat sink.

PDF also shows the back panel filled w/ holes, apparently covering an inner panel filled with smaller holes.

Photo #3 shows us a heavily ventilated interior. I've never seen the insides of a powermac before, so I don't know if this is typical or not, but this is a well-machined piece of equipment. The metal of the casing doesn't seem to be the same sort of metal I've usually seen in PC casings, and it seems shinier, or cleaner-looking. My guess is structural (aircraft) aluminum.

The fan is front-amidships, on the drop-down side IIRIR. I can't tell by looking if it would blow air into of out of the central cavity. My guess is, it blows out.

So: efforts have obviously been made to maximize airflow through the case; the fan is alleged (and seems) to be porting into a hollow section within that sie of the case. This would seem to make the case a active player in the ventilation process, so why not make the case itself a heat-sink? Seven pounds of structural-density aluminum ought to make a double-walled 'hull' that is strong & rigid despite all the perforations; actively ventilate it along at least one large, flat face, & you can disperse a lot of heat that way. Seems possible that the "very big" heat-sink is secondary, a scavenger, with the main dissipation via direct connection to the metal of the outer wall, and from there to the frame at large, with a layer of forced air continually bathing the largest-area surface in the machine, and exhausting out that double-screen-door of a back panel.

As for that "turbine fan", it's probably just kicked on-&-off by changed in airflow.

Thoughts, please!
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post #207 of 689
Oh baby...... <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> '
anybody got any singles? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #208 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Defender:
<strong>What ATA?
What max RAM?
What speed AGP?
What speed PCI?
What speed FireWire (Although the FireWire ports look like the 400Mbps kind -- the 800Mbps kind reportedly use a different plug. No new FireWire?)</strong><hr></blockquote>
ATA-100 would be a pretty safe bet. Virtually all the HD manufacturers plan to skip over ATA-133 and just go to Serial ATA. I would expect Apple shall do the same. I would like to see serial ATA included on the next motherboard though I don't expect it sadly.

Max RAM is a safe bet at 4GB (or 3GB if they retain only 3 RAM slots).

AGP one would have to expect is AGP 8x considering ATI has announced they are bringing an AGP 8x card to the Mac late August. It would be downright stupid not to fully support it.

PCI should be at 66MHz. There have already been a couple references to this.

Firewire 2 will be included in the final product. Trust me on that one. Apple wants to be first out the door with it and it is quite possibly yet another reason Apple has held off in announcing towers until August.

[ 07-21-2002: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
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post #209 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>
Max RAM is a safe bet at 4GB (or 3GB if they retain only 3 RAM slots).
</strong><hr></blockquote>

The XServe is limited to 2 Gig on 4 slots, it could be different, but I suspect 2 Gig will be the limit
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post #210 of 689
There could be some seriously hot chips in the next PowerMac... first of all they could be pushing the (new?) G4's clock rate to the bleeding edge, second the chipset could become a real monster if it starts including some kinds of computational units, and third the new 100+ million transistor GPUs from ATI and nVidia are really hot. If they are designing for the future and anticipating an upcoming G5 then they may overengineer the cooling system.
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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post #211 of 689
I hope that turbine cooling is way overkill, cause when the average user pops it under the desk, against the wall, uh-oh!
post #212 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Capt. Obvious:
<strong>
I've been thinking abotu this heatsink, and I just don't see it.

First off, a seven-pound heatsink of (even remotely) typical design would be massive enough to cause structural problems. It's great stuff, but it's NOT meant to bear that kind of weight!

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Totally Agree.

Regardless of how accurate any of the other information is one thing is for sure:

The heat sink/cooling system does not weigh 7 lbs

The is almost as much as a gallon of water or milk; 3.5 liters for those the metric system. Not a chance in hell it would weight that much.

Largely I still maintain there is little functionality to the developers (meaning not the final version) case other than to provide for airflow.

As the heat if the internals increases, as should expected it G$ goes to .13 and 1.4Ghz, there needs to be more general cooling as opposed to solely processor direct.

The current QS design provides no room for 'positive air flow.' It has only the Power Supply and a side blowing fan.

Maximum efficiency cooling would be achieved by a pass through pattern. Meaning air in the front and exhausted out the back. Solution: Drill Holes.

Anyhow, even if this was exactly the was it was gonna look there isn't a chance the cooling sys would be that heavy.
post #213 of 689
If these pics are real, Jonathan Ive must be fired...although I really believe it's a prototype that's missing a faceplate.
post #214 of 689
I heard the heat-sink in made of Titanium...


j/k
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post #215 of 689
[quote]The heat sink/cooling system does not weigh 7 lbs

The is almost as much as a gallon of water or milk; 3.5 liters for those the metric system. Not a chance in hell it would weight that much.<hr></blockquote>

Now, admittedly I have no idea what I'm doing, so these numbers could be way off. I saw someplace else that the heatsink is purportedly enormous, 7 inches by 6 inches by 7 inches. That's 294 cubic inches. I looked up the density for some random aluminum alloy, and it was .0975 lb/cubic inch. Using the power of arithmetic, I get a weight of 28 some-odd pounds. Now of course the heatsink isnt a solid block, that would be silly. But I could certainly see how a heatsink of those proportions made from aluminum would come in at 7 pounds.
post #216 of 689
Info posted on macrumors.com, that apparently comes from the author of the PDF.

[quote] the heatsink is a very large aluminum straight finned squared design. about 6" x 7" x 6" approx and weighs about 7 lbs; it is attatched to the MLB by 3 screws, but not like XSERVE; 2 screws are on countersunk standoffs that go through the MPU, and one that attatches to the back panel on a ridge above the modem port. The MPU itself is held down only by the weight of the heatsink, and a 'flex' bar, that is a plastic bar with 2 metal springloaded clips that allow it to flex freely. <hr></blockquote>

I suppose the flexbar arrangement answers the concerns in this thread about a 7lb heatsink crushing the processor when the computer is jarred.
post #217 of 689
Well, macrumors now claims to have received a takedown notice from Apple Legal....
post #218 of 689
What kind of legal action can Apple legitimately pursue?
post #219 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by qazII:
<strong>Well, macrumors now claims to have received a takedown notice from Apple Legal....</strong><hr></blockquote>

same now with <a href="http://www.macbidouille.com" target="_blank">www.macbidouille.com</a>
post #220 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by gsxrboy:
<strong>

same now with <a href="http://www.macbidouille.com" target="_blank">www.macbidouille.com</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

And according to the MacRumors boards, spymac got one too....
post #221 of 689
anyone save a pic of that new board and case from the french site?

i've now learned how to say "removed at the request of apple legal" in french.

damn bastards must be up all night.

edit: lol, nevermind, this thread is older than i thought. guess i must not be paying enough attention on the weekends.

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>
post #222 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:
<strong>anyone save a pic of that new board and case from the french site?

i've now learned how to say "removed at the request of apple legal" in french.

damn bastards must be up all night.</strong><hr></blockquote>

so what if i did?
post #223 of 689
It's very possible that this is an old case that apple was using back in 2001, when working out the layout for the new MOBO. I think that this looks a bit unrefined to be a final release. The new case could have the same internal layout, but different plastics on the outside. Wouldn't suprise me if Apple held on to old 'elcap until the G5 comes out.

But don't listen to me, I'm always wrong.
post #224 of 689
OK, PS'ers: based on new known DVD/CD drive , bezel and speaker palcement, hack this up:



Addison, this means you!

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: zaz ]</p>
post #225 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by mooseman:
<strong>...well, cipher, to respond....

...the reason the tape is all over it is because it a new puter straight out of the box, most likely. If you have ever unpacked a new G4 that plastic is covered with protective plastic on all parts. But those are defintiely the same handles as the ones on the QS sittin right here in front of me.

And the reason I think its a new puter is because, most likely is was supposed to ship at MWNY, but either sales were too slow to clear out the old models, or there is a shortage of chips to fill orders. More than likely, its a channel inventory problem. So, could be this photo comes from a dude in a warehouse somewhere.

As for the front panel everyone is asking about, I'd say it has to do with plastic quality issues. Anyone who has a QSG4 knows what I'm talking about. The QS forms little flow lines around and between the front panel drive bay doors. I'm sure this is to reduce or prevent these unsightly blemishes.. Its easier to mold the plastic around a large opening like this than two small openings like on the current QS.

But, its definitely a real and different case on the inside. And as for SDRAM, DDR RAM is SDRAM.

Also, the speaker is defintely a different design than on the current QS. It looks more flush than the deeply setback one on my QS.

Oh, and to those wondering about vertical HDs, anyone who has owned a Cube knows that Apple has shipped vertically mounted HDs before.

No doubt, this is the exact same board that appeared on eBay a while back. And, it will be nice to have hardware RAID on board, if that chip set supports it (which I would think it would, why else put 2 IDE ports for HDs).

All in all, I'm excited to see this case. Still has the great easy open design of the current design, but throws in DDR, dual IDE, and 2 5.25 external drive bays. Very nice, very nice.

BTW, the front panel may be polished, Apple is moving in that polished chrome direction with the iPod, iMac, etc.

I guess we'll know for sure August 13th?</strong><hr></blockquote>

In my post I explained my reasoning re. the plastic - they don't get packaged like that. Look how rough, messy it is - wouldn't happen. It's been thrown on to hide certain things, and allow reasonable doubt as to certain qualities this machine possesses.

You don't know that that case is the same as the one the motherboards are from, and we cannot assume so. I doubt they are, bcause this picture is absolutely a fake.

I think the QS speaker looks better; not to mention this speaker is misshapen, and again, a cheap chop job.

I hope this isn't of any semblance to the final... 2 drive bays? Please. It's better than one, but there should be three, at least.

[quote]Originally posted by ihxo:
<strong>

.... DDR is SDRam ....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, I know... I never said it wasn't a DDR mobo... just stated that whatever the mobo looks like, it *has* to be DDR.
AIM: Cipher1387
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ICQ: 48111606
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post #226 of 689
anyone have these pics,i missed them. thanks
post #227 of 689
maybe it's suppose to be 0.7 lbs
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post #228 of 689
Ah, more reasons to dislike Cipher13. Nobody can tell if the photos are fake. I'm pretty much 100% sure there's been no intentional photoshopping. The only thing obvious is the horizontal squeeze, which seems unintentional.

Three 5.25" drive bays? Most OEM PCs don't even have that. PCI slots are more important than drive bays since external drives are much more popular these days...thank the hot pluggability of FireWire and USB 2. With 4 64-bit PCI slots, that's basically plenty for the average pro.

besides, my Power Mac G4 came in a plastic/foam shroud that covered it up. Have you ever seen fresh bare cases shipped to the Apple plant in Sacramento? They come caked in layers of plastic sheets.

These may not be the final case, but it's not "Photochopped." besides, these people had access to photos of a motherboard that looks just like the infamous eBay "red board," and a close-up shot of a G4 CPU on a riser that doesn't match anything we've seen before.

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
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post #229 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by drewprops:
<strong>and XYPE:
don't go talking about your first computer havng 2Mb of memory and a 20Mb hard drive.....some of use grew up on Atari's and Commodores sporting 64k of on-board memory! We were lucky since the sinclair people had two ants and a beetle in lieu of RAM. Hard drives? In your dreams.

D</strong><hr></blockquote>

Heh, I had a sinclair alright (if that's the blue rubber button rainbow thing) but refuse to really think of it as a computer...
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post #230 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Cipher13:<strong>
In my post I explained my reasoning re. the plastic - they don't get packaged like that. Look how rough, messy it is - wouldn't happen. It's been thrown on to hide certain things, and allow reasonable doubt as to certain qualities this machine possesses.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Uuuuhhhh... Have you personally unpacked a QS Tower lately?

[quote]<strong>
You don't know that that case is the same as the one the motherboards are from, and we cannot assume so. I doubt they are, bcause this picture is absolutely a fake.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, the layout of that mobo in one of the pics seems to match perfectly with the layout of the components on the front of the case. In the mobo pic, you can even see the grill on the back of the front air vents. In addition, the position of the CD bays jives with the height of the PCI cards. If I had to bet $100, I'd say that case and that mobo go together.

[quote]<strong>
I think the QS speaker looks better; not to mention this speaker is misshapen, and again, a cheap chop job.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Uhuh... so? It's a bad photo. What more do you want? I suppose you'd believe it if Steve came up and handed you the photo. It's obvious the speaker is misshapen because the photo has been squashed horizontally.

[quote]<strong>
I hope this isn't of any semblance to the final... 2 drive bays? Please. It's better than one, but there should be three, at least.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Boo hoo! You get twice the number of CD bays you have right now, and you still complain? What would *you personally* put in the empty bay if the machine ships with a combo drive or super drive?

[quote]<strong>
Yes, I know... I never said it wasn't a DDR mobo... just stated that whatever the mobo looks like, it *has* to be DDR.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You sure about that one?

[quote]<strong>
SDRAM feeding a G5? Yeah right... the G4 is starved as it is.

They NEED DDR to feed the damn things to get any performance increase, or it'll seem just like a G4 with a fancy new name.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
post #231 of 689
Oh, and as for the heatsink - since Apple lags behind as far as clockrates go I could imagine a bit of an overclocked G4 or maybe a POWER chip? But then, I doubt people would be ok with a machine thats _too_ heavy..
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post #232 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by burningwheel:
<strong>anyone have these pics,i missed them. thanks</strong><hr></blockquote>


<a href="http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,3896512~root=macdsl~mode=flat#3896512" target="_blank">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,3896512~root=macdsl~mode=flat#3896512</a>
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post #233 of 689
I'm not sure if anybody posted this already, but Apple legal forced the website to remove the picts. So I guess either this is one giant prank or the picts are real.
post #234 of 689
Les photos du nouveau G4 ont été retiré Ã* la demande des avocats d'Apple. Merci de ne pas me demander de les envoyer par mail je ne le ferai pas.
En tout cas, c'est la preuve qu'elles étaient certainement vraies...


Direct Translation: The photos of the new G4 were taken down by demand of Apple's lawyers. Thanks for not asking me to email them to you because I would not do it. In any case, this is proof that they were certainly real.
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post #235 of 689
Edit: Already mentioned

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
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post #236 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by ThatGuy:
<strong>

Now, admittedly I have no idea what I'm doing, so these numbers could be way off. I saw someplace else that the heatsink is purportedly enormous, 7 inches by 6 inches by 7 inches. That's 294 cubic inches.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, a cube that size of Al cut down to a heatsink would weigh about 7lbs. Problem is that a heatsink that big could cool a nice-sized 2 stroke engine with a bit more airflow.

And a heatsink that is 6" deep makes little sense. The high surface area of the fins would require an enourmous heat gradiant for the fins to be useful after a certain distance. You'd need a CPU running at over 100C to justify that and it'll start fatiguing components if those temps are blowing around. G4s rarely run (for long) over 50C.

It doesn't make any sense to me...
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post #237 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by johnsonwax:
<strong>

Yeah, a cube that size of Al cut down to a heatsink would weigh about 7lbs. Problem is that a heatsink that big could cool a nice-sized 2 stroke engine with a bit more airflow.

And a heatsink that is 6" deep makes little sense. The high surface area of the fins would require an enourmous heat gradiant for the fins to be useful after a certain distance. You'd need a CPU running at over 100C to justify that and it'll start fatiguing components if those temps are blowing around. G4s rarely run (for long) over 50C.

It doesn't make any sense to me...</strong><hr></blockquote>

what about 2 or 4 processors? I'm no engineer but 2x50C=100C?
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post #238 of 689
More tidbits from MacRumors:


- the door mechanism has been totally redesigned, instead of plastic hooks, it is all metal. Only the round hole handle is plastic, which actuates metal u-shaped hooks which slide in and catch; very smooth, no more slamming closed; and nearly impossible to break open with lock, metal on metal.

- the modem stays the same but in new location.

- the 4 decorative holes in the front are for show, but also allow air intake for the 'turbine' fan sitting in front of teh heatsink (with door closed), the turbine fan speeds up and slows down depending on tempurature. An extra fan in the door ventilates the MLB and dual CD drives (vents galore).

- BlueTooth will NOT be included, it will be as is now, a USB addon
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post #239 of 689
hey...I like the new case....it looks real....believable at least....I think the cd drives are too low on the front(I don't mind them not at the top...but they are still a bit low for my liking)
but other than that....the case is slick.
and he new iMac it would look even better(just as the new iMac looked even better when seen next to other apple products)
I'm pleased.
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post #240 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Wrong Robot:
<strong>hey...I like the new case....it looks real....believable at least....I think the cd drives are too low on the front(I don't mind them not at the top...but they are still a bit low for my liking)
but other than that....the case is slick.
and he new iMac it would look even better(just as the new iMac looked even better when seen next to other apple products)
I'm pleased.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree, I think the case looks sexy.

Seems to me that the biggest shame is that the picture was taken with a video camera (on it's side - interlacing, stretched DV ratio) where the white balance makes it look white.

That puppy is light-silver!
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