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New PowerMac pictures leaked - Page 7

post #241 of 689
What I can't understand is why other sites like Spymac and Macboulie are required to remove pic's and yet this site seems immune.

Can any one explain this?
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post #242 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Addison:
<strong>What I can't understand is why other sites like Spymac and Macboulie are required to remove pic's and yet this site seems immune.

Can any one explain this?</strong><hr></blockquote>


I assumed this site got the same letter. I noticed that the pictures are missing from the original posts.


What about the idea that Apple 'intentionally' released these? This would (and has) taken some heat away from the OSX update price and .Mac issues that people were not impressed about. I'm sure Apple designs many prototypes that are turned down. Could this just be a way to obtain interest? Just an idea.
post #243 of 689
we're private citizens, it would be an invasion of privacy if Apple ordered us to close this thread and take the pictures off our computers.
post #244 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by hotboxd:
<strong>we're private citizens, it would be an invasion of privacy if Apple ordered us to close this thread and take the pictures off our computers.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I think they were refering to the public accessible forums such as this one, not our personal computers.
post #245 of 689
On the topic of the heatsink if the processor is going to be a hot one then it is far more likely the heatsink would be copper (only thing better really is silver and a few rather expensive alloys that won't happen). Since copper has a density of around 3.5 times Aluminium you could easily have a 7lb heatsink with better dimensions (current ones seem a little large to me).
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post #246 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by robster:
<strong>

If you look at the red ebay mobo and the one from the french pics, many of the elements are in the same places, the only real difference is the french pics show that 45 deg placed chip (maybe a processor maybe not) but the connector for a daughtercard is still there,
</strong><hr></blockquote>

If you look at the red board, you'll see a cluster of components around where the controller chip is placed on the other side of the board.

It is much more expensive to produce boards that are double sided, so it is quite reasonable that Apple have moved the chip to the same side as the rest of the components. Presumably it is easier to design double sided boards, so this looks like a later optimisation to cut costs.

Additionally, the chip on the red board appears to be straight. So maybe Apple have only recently received machines that can place chips at 45 degrees ( witness the eMac cpu ). Placing chips a 45 degrees can make routing the traces easier, and keep them shorter. Several PC motherboard manufacters use this technique.

I think it points to this board being an optimised version of what we saw in the red board. Optimised for price ( maybe only to benefit Apples margins ).

Additionally - Dell often mount harddrives vertically in the front of their desktop systems. It is not uncommon, and not bad for the drive. It may even convection cooling of the drive area.

[edit]
After looking really closely, I realise that the chip in the picture is the cpu, and although it is hard to see, you can see that the area around it is the cpu daughter board ( compare the components to those on the daughter board image ).

So everything Ive said might be irrelevant to this discussion.

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: woozle ]</p>
post #247 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by hotboxd:
<strong>we're private citizens, it would be an invasion of privacy if Apple ordered us to close this thread and take the pictures off our computers.</strong><hr></blockquote>Technically it is theft anyway. They own the box and all images pertaining to it until such time as it becomes publicly released.

They could order you to delete them from your computer they just know it probably wouldn't do any good. What they can do is order public sites to remove it though.
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post #248 of 689
These photos are definitely real. Apple distributes all sorts of prototype cases made out of various materials. For instance, Trinity (the Cube) was protoed in a thin black plastic case. Other test units were distributed with just a metal framework enclosure (stripped of the outer plastics). Don't over-analyze the materials. They custom make anything that they haven't already fabbed, and they use any available materials to do so.

The new machines will have DDR, they will have gigawire, and at least one of the configs will still be a dual 1GHZ, although significantly faster than the current 1 GHZ because of the ram and other mobo changes.
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post #249 of 689
The photos aren't fake, then. If Apple get them removed...that speaks for itself.

Doesn't confirm the 'final' look though. Could be one of many protos...still Apple's property though. And they will obviously object.

Moki and co. seem to have gone rather quiet...

The increased cooling. I'd like to think it had something to do with pushing the G4 to its limits or rather...

...the G5.

The towers must be imminent for release.

I just hope the specs don't disappoint.

After all the delay since January...DDR and dual 1.2 would be...urgh...

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post #250 of 689
so this probaly has a super over clocked g4 in it, but that can be deceptive if that one guy overclocked his duel 1ghz to 1.2ghz pretty easily think what you could get with a case like that and turbine cooly, around 1.5 max say around 1.8 - 7 especialy with a big ass heat sinc.


btw, i still think this is apples standarized testing case, hence all the stuff on cooling, to test newer and better things.
post #251 of 689
Geez, I'd buy a DDR 1.2 system. BUT, with
-FireWire 2
-AGP 8x ((ATi 9700=)
-Audio in hopefully, that was stupid getting rid of it.
-faster SuperDrive
-USB 2, though I can't see any use for it now.
-new keyboard/mouse would be icing on the cake.

"Real" DDR would be nice but I don't see it happening if the next PowerMac still uses the G4. A 166mhz MPX would be nice. But DDR would still benefit the graphics cards, etc. It's the motherboard I care about, not the CPU. I have been waiting for FireWire 2.
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post #252 of 689
Apple wouldn't sell computers with Motorola CPUs rated for a certain speed overclocked to a higher speed. That has fiasco written all over it. Apple isn't Kryotech.
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post #253 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by tsukurite:
<strong>every time I read your sig, I just have to stop and laugh my butt off.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Glad you like it.
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post #254 of 689
Well, I don't know how they did it but Apple Legal aparently contacted the people where I stuck the images and asked them to take them down.

They ended up contacting me (I'm a support engineer) and asked me if I could assist (duh).

So I hope you grabbed them while you could, looks like they are legit. Apple Legal didn't go after the Jaguar screen shots, I wonder why this stuff gets their attention?
post #255 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by DevNull:
<strong>Apple Legal didn't go after the Jaguar screen shots, I wonder why this stuff gets their attention?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Probably because Apple already announced Jaguar. The more pics, the more publicity, the more copies Apple would hope to sell.

The Power Mac pics hurt the sales of the current models that Apple is trying to get rid of. Well, I guess Apple thinks it does at least.
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post #256 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by DevNull:
<strong>Apple Legal didn't go after the Jaguar screen shots, I wonder why this stuff gets their attention?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Steve had already had his "glorious unveiling this for the fist time moment" with Jag, Nobody's stealing his thunder. Apple hasn't had his "glorious unveiling this for the first time moment" with the new PowerMac yet.
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post #257 of 689
At least we now have something tangible and most likely real to discuss. Like the old days at AI.
post #258 of 689
"
Some final details are filled in by AppleP58, author of the PDF:

- it is a slim power supply, originally identical to the XServe's with two fans 'attatched' to the end of it (as you may see in older photographs). The final product is 2 inches longer with the 2 fans built in (3 fans in power supply total)
- has a slide-on back cover which pulls off to access the IDE and power cables
- The Hard Drives: The two vertically mounted drives under the powersupply have a pop-off holder with a plastic hook; there is 1 screw which is there for the sole purpose of keeping it from falling out during shipping, as the instructions will attest to in the final product. The 2 horizontally mounted drives, under the optical drives, have a slide out
design with 3 mushrooms to catch on like a rail on top, it slides in and has a plastic latch. - The "mystery port" that was on early designs of the motherboard was a mini-VGA video port (like on the P80 iMac, iBook & PowerBook), and is not in the final product because it was only needed for testing the units sans-video card.
- Thermal grease will be used on the MPUs instead of black thermal pads.
- There will be single and dual processor MPUs used. It will use DDR.
- The new model P58 was not announced at MacWorld because of troubles with the XServe (P69) in production, the initial order of 4000 has been dificult to fulfill, and has taken up a lot of time of several departments traveling... I'll leave it at that.

Case:

- The metal area on the front panel is glossed aluminum, and as you can see in the photos has mylar covering it causing the haze, it is NOT brushed aluminum nor has it ever been.
- The case IS silver like the P57, has a white & silver speaker, and a hole handle with a larger ring in the side door.

This is the his/her last submission. "

From Macrumors

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post #259 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Capt. Obvious:
So why do they need such a big chunk of steel? Is it cause our G5 dreams are real? Will the current G4 justify the expense, to change all boards from this day hence?

I've been thinking abotu this heatsink, and I just don't see it.

First off, a seven-pound heatsink of (even remotely) typical design would be massive enough to cause structural problems. It's great stuff, but it's NOT meant to bear that kind of weight!

Second off, heat sinks would most likely be aluminum: it's extremely lightweight, low-mass, and a highly efficient heat conductor; it would therefore be far preferable to steel or iron, which are renowned for holding heat (not a desirable property in a heatsink!).

If we want to take seriously the notion of a 7# heatsink, however, we have to (*ahem*) 'think different'.
...
Thoughts, please!<hr></blockquote>

Sorry, I think I accidentally lied, about the steel heatsink which I implied. But please understand my conundrum, in trying to rhyme something with aluminum.

(Or worse, "aluminium.")
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post #260 of 689
Well it looks from all this fervent speculation I should not rush out and pre-order Jaguar just yet. I think I will wait and get my final copy with a new tower
Jag is comming it the end of August and there's that supposed Apple event (heard speculation) mid Aug.
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post #261 of 689
From Macminute...

"Industrial Light and Magic moves to Dell
July 22 - 09:00 ET Industrial Light and Magic, the company responsible for the special effects in Star Wars, has switched from using RISC-Unix workstations from SGI to using Intel-based Dell systems running Linux for the bulk of its animation and special effects work, according to c|net. The switch included the purchase of 600 Pentium 4 workstations. "The Intel workstations that were deployed were probably 20 percent of the price of SGI workstations we bought a few years ago. Performance-wise, they are about three times as fast," said Cliff Plumer, ILM's CTO. "

Now. What this has to do with new 'power'Macs...I don't know...

Lemon Bon Bon

Kinda feel Apple should be at the party...

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
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post #262 of 689
In response to, "What can Apple Legal LEGITIMATELY do?" The Answer: NOTHING. They can threaten and posture because they're a huge company with lots of money, but they can't do a damned thing. They can crucify anyone with an NDA, but they can't actually touch the news outlet that carries the photos, regardless of how they were abtained. We know this because a while ago Ford Motor Co. tried to get an online magazine to quit publishing spy pics that it had obtained. The judge said no-dice. News-worthy item, if you don't want people to see it, don't let it get seen. Hence, heavily disguised test vehicles that are now the industry norm, even when deep in the confines of a company's own testing facility.

You see, if Motor-Trend runs some pre-production spy pics, nobody can touch them cause the law is on their side and they have the money to stand up to legal bullying. ANy Ziff-Davis outlet could run these shots and Apple wouldn't do sniff about it.

I'm sure most people here saved all the relevant pics. Anyone care to e-mail them to C|net with an explanation of the kind of traffic they'll recieve (though I'm sure they don't really need the explanation)

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
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post #263 of 689
One thing we have to keep in mind is that we don't get these things until the channel clears.

So, i kind of hope that we are in the small majority of Mac users that know/care about this info.

We need the uninformed to buy the stuff on the shelves.
(Me in CompUSA this weekend chiming in on a sales person/customer conversation.) "Yeah, that G4 imac is a great deal, but look at the expandability of this tower!"

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post #264 of 689
man, a day late and can't find the pictures anywhere. anybody brave enough to give us slow ones a look-see?
post #265 of 689
No, Apple is far too arrogant about it's offerings. It's like hey expect people to buy up the same old offerings just because they have to get rid of them.

I want PowerMac sales to grind to ZERO by the end of this week. They don't deserve another single solitary powermac sale untill either the specs or the prices (or both) are dramatically improved, period.

It's that simple. I'd rather see Apple eat a few 10 thousand units worth of QS macs, and learn their lesson good and proper.

However, this channel clearing wait game fiasco IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN INTERNET FORUM/CHAT phenomena created in the minds of people who don't understand a damned thing a about the market. If they're not here now, it's cause they're not ready yet. The odds of clearing-out a powermac are not good and they get worse every day. The MARGINS on ALL POWERMACS are EXTREMELY HIGH. IF the replacement were ready, the old machines would get a serious markdown and get dumped to a few major institutional buyers around the world (still at a nice profit)

So get over it, there is no waiting game, geez!


[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
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post #266 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>In response to, "What can Apple Legal LEGITIMATELY do?" The Answer: NOTHING. They can threaten and posture because they're a huge company with lots of money, but they can't do a damned thing. They can crucify anyone with an NDA, but they can't actually touch the news outlet that carries the photos, regardless of how they were abtained. We know this because a while ago Ford Motor Co. tried to get an online magazine to quit publishing spy pics that it had obtained. The judge said no-dice. News-worthy item, if you don't want people to see it, don't let it get seen. Hence, heavily disguised test vehicles that are now the industry norm, even when deep in the confines of a company's own testing facility.

You see, if Motor-Trend runs some pre-production spy pics, nobody can touch them cause the law is on their side and they have the money to stand up to legal bullying. ANy Ziff-Davis outlet could run these shots and Apple wouldn't do sniff about it.

I'm sure most people here saved all the relevant pics. Anyone care to e-mail them to C|net with an explanation of the kind of traffic they'll recieve (though I'm sure they don't really need the explanation)</strong><hr></blockquote>I can think of a few pictures and documents that I could leak that would have judges lining up to overturn that pretty quickly. I can also think of more than a few cases of industrial espionage where had the details been leaked to press the press would have been shut down in a heartbeat.

Apple is the sort of company that would pursue such things against big press outlets, ISPs too. Add to that if they can prove they were acquired through illicit means it also becomes trading in stolen property.

The irony is if you are forced to fight such a case absolutely everybody gets their attention drawn t what you don't want to see. That's why it is usually best to settle such disputes outside of court.
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post #267 of 689
Not to "play with fire" but I hate the idea of these pictures dissappearing them. So now I am hosting them.

Can't wait for MY letter from Apple Legal.

Link is HERE!

<a href="http://www.webforever.com/AI/" target="_blank">Link for all the pictures etc.</a>
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post #268 of 689
So can I.

Apple might make an argument about the circuit board, but they can't touch the case.

Judges would probably look to the nature of the information. You cannot reveal sercets about how things are done, but you can say this is what's coming and here's a pic to prove it. The NDA holder gets nailed, but the news outlet gets a walk.

As a company, you have the right to not reveal your plans, but as I journalist I have a right to try to discover them and publish what I find for the benefit of news readers everywhere.

Apple might argue that it hurts their future sales, but I have an as legitimate argument that information helps my readers plan purchases. Apple has no more right to make money by holding secrets as you have to save money by knowing them. It's all very frivolous, but so long as I'm not revealing information that lets another company usurp a technological break-through and beat Apple to market (and even then in some cases that I can think of), I safe and so are you.
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post #269 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>Technically it is theft anyway. They own the box and all images pertaining to it until such time as it becomes publicly released.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I am not sure that this is correct, I do not see how they can own the picture. Look at the number of car magazines that print spy shots of prototype cars. No car manuacturer would stand a chance in court of prosecuting a magazine that way.

I believe we have a free press.
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post #270 of 689
I also mirrored the pictures, in case the prior link goes down. Check out:

<a href="http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~as221300" target="_blank">http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~as221300</a>

also, note that my new page design uses no tables. heh.
post #271 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Addison:
<strong>I believe we have a free press.</strong><hr></blockquote>

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post #272 of 689
If they owned the box and all images pertaining to it, they wouldn't need to have everyone (and I mean everyone) who lays eyes on it sign an NDA. They own the pictures of it which they produce, but if you or a third party can manage to take a pic, they don't own that.
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post #273 of 689
I think the consensus is that regardless of how 'real' their case is, more and more the pictures will be posted. I'm working on getting them up onto a couple other boards too...

Sorry Apple Legal, go to lunch, it's already out of your hands...
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post #274 of 689
Matsu is correct.

Why would Apple's new PowerMac enjoy any more protection than the DOD's plans to invade Iraq?

They don't. It's the company's job to keep secrets secret. It's media's job to report newsworthy items.
post #275 of 689
Aquatik writes:

[quote] Geez, I'd buy a DDR 1.2 system. BUT, with
-FireWire 2
-AGP 8x ((ATi 9700=)
-Audio in hopefully, that was stupid getting rid of it.
-faster SuperDrive
-USB 2, though I can't see any use for it now.
-new keyboard/mouse would be icing on the cake. <hr></blockquote>

I'm with you, Aquatik. This system will be a mite bit faster than the current towers, and the possibility of the ATi 9700 will really make it glow. As to the heatsinks, anyone who follows the Sybaritic moniker knows that we sybarites can handle a little heat.

Bring it on, Apple.

----------------------------------
Waiting for the Heat in Nashvegas
post #276 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>So can I.

Apple might make an argument about the circuit board, but they can't touch the case.

Judges would probably look to the nature of the information. You cannot reveal sercets about how things are done, but you can say this is what's coming and here's a pic to prove it. The NDA holder gets nailed, but the news outlet gets a walk.

As a company, you have the right to not reveal your plans, but as I journalist I have a right to try to discover them and publish what I find for the benefit of news readers everywhere.

Apple might argue that it hurts their future sales, but I have an as legitimate argument that information helps my readers plan purchases. Apple has no more right to make money by holding secrets as you have to save money by knowing them. It's all very frivolous, but so long as I'm not revealing information that lets another company usurp a technological break-through and beat Apple to market (and even then in some cases that I can think of), I safe and so are you.</strong><hr></blockquote>If in the process of doing my job I came across some sensitive information, which by NDA I had been forbidden to disclose. To then take that information and break contract I'm stealing. That is the very basis of industrial espionage through implanting moles. Some people must see the product for it to be worked upon. If one of them takes designs, plans, or the product itself and hands it off to someone else that property is stolen.

To give it to a news outlet is borderline trading in stolen property. Once they are notified of its origins it becomes an issue of making a profit from dealing in stolen property (and worse).

The cases I'm thinking of are a little more senitive in nature and pursued very vigorously for that fact but the principles of each were the same. If Apple truly wanted to pursue it the case law is there to support them but it would also be largely a matter of them proving damages, which may not be worth enough to them. Try it on a large publication and it's a whole other matter.

As for the case of cars the body of most cars isn't overly advanced (sorry for all the technology they use in design they aren't advanced chassis at least externally).

Anybody familiar with Formula 1 will know many of the teams employ digital photographers to take shots of sensitive parts of other teams. In monaco this year the manufacturers didn't want to uncover their cars for show because they were fearful of intellectual property being stolen. The only reason nobody gets prosecuted in F1 is nobody gets caught.

Now if a magazine was stupid enough to publish shots handed to them outlining this is such and such's new design for this section of the car do you really want to believe they aren't going to be prosecuted?

The key there lies not in freedom of the press at all it lies in the ability to prove damages. A Formula 1 team can very easily say "This is critical to our operations" a road car company can't really do that. Tech simply isn't important enough and their sales don't slump so much at knowledge something is coming.

The press isn't immune in the least and it doesn't have complete freedom.
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post #277 of 689
macrumors has posted more info regarding the pics and pdf:

[quote]Some final details are filled in by AppleP58, author of the PDF:

- it is a slim power supply, originally identical to the XServe's with two fans 'attatched' to the end of it (as you may see in older photographs). The final product is 2 inches longer with the 2 fans built in (3 fans in power supply total)
- has a slide-on back cover which pulls off to access the IDE and power cables
- The Hard Drives: The two vertically mounted drives under the powersupply have a pop-off holder with a plastic hook; there is 1 screw which is there for the sole purpose of keeping it from falling out during shipping, as the instructions will attest to in the final product. The 2 horizontally mounted drives, under the optical drives, have a slide out
design with 3 mushrooms to catch on like a rail on top, it slides in and has a plastic latch. - The "mystery port" that was on early designs of the motherboard was a mini-VGA video port (like on the P80 iMac, iBook & PowerBook), and is not in the final product because it was only needed for testing the units sans-video card.
- Thermal grease will be used on the MPUs instead of black thermal pads.
- There will be single and dual processor MPUs used. It will use DDR.
- The new model P58 was not announced at MacWorld because of troubles with the XServe (P69) in production, the initial order of 4000 has been dificult to fulfill, and has taken up a lot of time of several departments traveling... I'll leave it at that.

Case:

- The metal area on the front panel is glossed aluminum, and as you can see in the photos has mylar covering it causing the haze, it is NOT brushed aluminum nor has it ever been.
- The case IS silver like the P57, has a white & silver speaker, and a hole handle with a larger ring in the side door.

This is the his/her last submission. <hr></blockquote>

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: running with scissors ]</p>
post #278 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by NDA:
<strong>Matsu is correct.

Why would Apple's new PowerMac enjoy any more protection than the DOD's plans to invade Iraq?

They don't. It's the company's job to keep secrets secret. It's media's job to report newsworthy items.</strong><hr></blockquote>Umm...the DoD's plans to invade Iraq were and are in no way sensitive. You would find they were leaked quite deliberately in fact.

Ever actually seen the US DoD go after anybody for stealing secrets? They don't pertain to the belief "it's their job to keep it secret". It is very much a case of "you just stole from us and we're going to hang you for it".

I would strongly suggest you get some knowledge of just how the DoD really works before you try and bring them up.
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"When I was a kid, my favourite relative was Uncle Caveman. After school, wed all go play in his cave, and every once and awhile, hed eat one of us. It wasnt until later that I discovered Uncle...
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post #279 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>
I would strongly suggest you get some knowledge of just how the DoD really works before you try and bring them up.</strong><hr></blockquote>

are you referring to the part where they support usama, saddam, or ho chi minh ?
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post #280 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>
I would strongly suggest you get some knowledge of just how the DoD really works before you try and bring them up.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hey, I actually work for them! You should have seen the crap I had to go through just to work here. Man they wanted to know what I ate for breakfast 7 years ago
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