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New PowerMac pictures leaked - Page 8

post #281 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon:
<strong>The photos aren't fake, then. If Apple get them removed...that speaks for itself.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

My guess is that these rumour sites have never been contacted by Apple, but have removed the pics on purpose.
This will make it seem as if the pics were actually real and a concern to Apple.
post #282 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>Umm...the DoD's plans to invade Iraq were and are in no way sensitive. You would find they were leaked quite deliberately in fact.

Ever actually seen the US DoD go after anybody for stealing secrets? They don't pertain to the belief "it's their job to keep it secret". It is very much a case of "you just stole from us and we're going to hang you for it".

I would strongly suggest you get some knowledge of just how the DoD really works before you try and bring them up.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course, the Supreme Court disagrees with them.

<a href="http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB48/" target="_blank">Pentagon Papers</a>
post #283 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>Ever actually seen the US DoD go after anybody for stealing secrets? They don't pertain to the belief "it's their job to keep it secret". It is very much a case of "you just stole from us and we're going to hang you for it"</strong><hr></blockquote>

A lot of the stuff that leaks out of Washington is deliberately leaked. But when someone gives away actual secrets, and someone else publishes them, the government goes after the person who leaked, not the person who published.

DoD tried to go after the publisher over the Pentagon Papers. It didn't work. There's little recourse against the publisher unless the information is libelous.
post #284 of 689
To me it seems implausable that all of the rumor sites would coordinate a mass removal of the pictures. Not impossible, but silly. If one site refused to pull the pictures, they'd get virtually all of the traffic and revenue.
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post #285 of 689
Poor macrumors had to shut down their bulletin board cause they're getting overloaded. Apple, I think folks are ready for new PowerMacs! If this is a market research expiriment I think you have the results!
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post #286 of 689
COncerning the air vents at the front...

Why on the front? Why not put them on the bottom unseen?, Why are they shaped so inefficiently?

By looking at these things carfeully I'd swear they are two usb ports, and two firewire ports.

It makes sense, but having decorative air vents does not. Either that or Apple has been kind enough to leave usb/airport sized holes in place for case modders to turn into useful ports.

i can see it now...

[b]Jonathan Ives[/b:] "Steve, I put USB & firewire ports on the front, and by angling them up into the front of the machine, I've minimized their presence and enhanced the aesthetics at the same time."

Steve: "Yank those ports out of there, reshape them slightly so that they create a Bernouli Effect inside the box. We need cold air. Oh yeah, and we also have a heat sync that looks like a scale model to rebuild the World Trade center. Oh yes, and we will no longer refer to this as El Capitan, it is now, Dante's Inferno. One more thing... i like to brush my teeth while checking the morning email, can you build a mirrored surface into the fron t of the thing? That'd be great."

Jonathan Ives " Anything else?"

Steve: "yeah, take the *&^% protective plastic off the case the next time I tell you to leak some images."




MSKR

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Masker ]

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Masker ]</p>
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post #287 of 689
DOD and Apple?

Come on....

Much of the Fed is covered by FOI act and is a public entity.

Apple is a private company and is subject to no such thing. If they elect to keep their intellectual property out of public eye and classify it as such tey are wholly with their legal right to demand its removal.

Can we drop all the Armchair-Lawyer posts now?

This is my hypocritical post of the day.
post #288 of 689
Lemon Bob Bon posted at 07-22-2002 09:21 AM Â*Â*Â* Â*Â* Â*Â* Â*Â* Â* Â* Â*Â*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Macminute...

"Industrial Light and Magic moves to Dell
July 22 - 09:00 ET Industrial Light and Magic, the company responsible for the special effects in Star Wars, has switched from using RISC-Unix workstations from SGI to using Intel-based Dell systems running Linux for the bulk of its animation and special effects work, according to c|net. The switch included the purchase of 600 Pentium 4 workstations. "The Intel workstations that were deployed were probably 20 percent of the price of SGI workstations we bought a few years ago. Performance-wise, they are about three times as fast," said Cliff Plumer, ILM's CTO. "

Now. What this has to do with new 'power'Macs...I don't know...

(/endpaste)

Inside of ILM is a group known as the "Rebel Unit" and they will give you their Macs when you pry them from their cold, dead fingers.

Pickup the EpII edition of Cinefex and see for yourself.
post #289 of 689
Are they mailed to C|Net yet? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

I'm with Matsu, I think it's possible Apple doesn't know how their PowerMacs SUCK. Dartmouth just abandoned ship. I did all I could (I know some people) but to no avail, a BIG loss. ILM could have been a BIG gain. But, the PowerMacs suck. XServe was too halfass (at least it's out.)

I hope prices also go DOWN.

I'm actually starting to expect something big. And why isn't this reasonable? After all, as time goes on, they have more time to make the machine better
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post #290 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by williw:
<strong>Lemon Bob Bon posted at 07-22-2002 09:21 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Macminute...

"Industrial Light and Magic moves to Dell
July 22 - 09:00 ET Industrial Light and Magic, the company responsible for the special effects in Star Wars, has switched from using RISC-Unix workstations from SGI to using Intel-based Dell systems running Linux for the bulk of its animation and special effects work, according to c|net. The switch included the purchase of 600 Pentium 4 workstations. "The Intel workstations that were deployed were probably 20 percent of the price of SGI workstations we bought a few years ago. Performance-wise, they are about three times as fast," said Cliff Plumer, ILM's CTO. "

Now. What this has to do with new 'power'Macs...I don't know...

(/endpaste)

Inside of ILM is a group known as the "Rebel Unit" and they will give you their Macs when you pry them from their cold, dead fingers.

Pickup the EpII edition of Cinefex and see for yourself.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Hey Steve, it WAS a market for you (OSX and XServe), no ? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />


As I said, OSX on x86 will help Apple gain markeshare... as better performance and lower price...

Aw
post #291 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by zaz:
<strong>
Much of the Fed is covered by FOI act and is a public entity.
</strong><hr></blockquote>Off-topic but...

*N*A*I*V*E*

Please challenge yourself. Make an effort to find out what's really going on.
post #292 of 689
I agree with MASKER, I think the design is for Firewire & USB ports. If they where for air intake, apple would design them so they would not be obvious.
post #293 of 689
I seriously hope that they are USB/FireWire ports on the front. But if everyone looks at the top left of the pic of the inside of the PM, where there should be the interfaces for the USB/FW ports, there is only a grille for (sigh) airflow.

Unless it's really easy to do and they want to wait before shipping them out to install the connector...?
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post #294 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Addison:
<strong>


I believe we have a free press.</strong><hr></blockquote>

... as free as the size of your legal team.
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post #295 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Appleworm:
<strong>


Hey Steve, it WAS a market for you (OSX and XServe), no ? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />


As I said, OSX on x86 will help Apple gain markeshare... as better performance and lower price...

Aw</strong><hr></blockquote>


I for one will disagree with this. Apple would dissapear if this happened.
post #296 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by MozillaMan:
<strong>I...But if everyone looks at the top left of the pic of the inside of the PM, where there should be the interfaces for the USB/FW ports, there is only a grille for (sigh) airflow.

Unless it's really easy to do and they want to wait before shipping them out to install the connector...?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The motherboard has no screws in it, there is no power supply shown... the ports would be on the list of stuff to disconnect first before yanking out the mobo.

Also, i was thinking maybe a small circuitboard with all the ports on it that connects to he inside of the faceplate. On this there could be a ribbon cable to carry both USB and firewire cable to the mobo. Are there any inidentified connectors on this thing?

Can firewire/usb be implemented that way? i would think so...

MSKR
I
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post #297 of 689
Those holes shall be great for casemodding.
I'm thinking of a small jet engine blowing out of every hole...no wait, wrong forum.

G-News
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post #298 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Bruiser:
<strong>Off-topic but...

*N*A*I*V*E*

Please challenge yourself. Make an effort to find out what's really going on.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> Um, what the hell does that mean?

My point is simply that public entities are more reasonably bound to make info public while private entities, as long as not breaking a law may suppress any info the do not want revealed.

My comment was not meant to be a lengthy political commentary of the actual workings of the federal government and how it manages itself within or out of the FOI.

It was simple comparative between public and private bodies.

Dink.

We can do the government debate elsewhere.

Use just a scad of brain power and maybe you will be able to derive the intended meaning of the post.

Hell, I live in Montana... you think I trust the Fed <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: zaz ]</p>
post #299 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by rok:
<strong>oh, and by the way...

why in god's name do they insist on a simple single speaker? why can't they toss in a free set of external orb speakers, and just save the space in the tower for something else? am i the only one who feels like this?</strong><hr></blockquote>

There are circumstances where sound quality isn't important, and where setting up external speakers would be inconvenient or impractical, yet where the ability for a computer to still beep or squawk a little would be useful.
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post #300 of 689
One thing that I am also scratching my head on... this "modem card"... why is it asafar away from the back of the case as it can get?

Why is it not bumped right up to it's modem port which needs to be accesible externally?

My belief is that this is the fire wire and USB IC for the front ports. But I know nothing about IC/mobo design so my opinion is worth about as much as last week's stock investments.

Modem on an extra card up front... BAH!

MSKR
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post #301 of 689
A great deal of 'stolen' information is published as news and the owner of the information is often powerless against the publisher. The thief or whistle-blower is often SOL, but not the media.

The F1 boys are in a different scenario. Secret and Patent are different. Where they have a secret they need to protect it to keep others from learning what they know. Where they have a patent they can let anyone see what they've done because the other's are not free to infringe that patent. No doubt Apple owns patents to it's work. To do that, even if the product is secret, they have to divulge at least some indication of th general shape/workings of things. We are not entitled to infringe their patents, and they are entitled to the secrecy that they can manage to keep, but they actually have little right to control information once it has been leaked, regardless of who leaked it, and how that info was leaked. They can only claim damages against a person who violates a contract, in the media, I have no contract with them.

As with many things, it's a bit of a case of how much freedom your legal dept can secure for you.
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post #302 of 689
PLEASE GOD BE FIREWIRE AND USB PORTS!!!
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post #303 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>PLEASE GOD BE FIREWIRE AND USB PORTS!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think there's really any chance of that. Why bother putting a USB port on the front, when you've a spare on the end of your keyboard. Firewire there's maybe an argument for, but loads of wires hanging out the front, it's not really "Apple" is it?
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post #304 of 689
This is real, no doubt about it. But we don't know that it's a prototype for the next Powermac revision....it may be an older prototype that was canned. For example, there is the "2001" date on the daughter card, perhaps this means that the quicksilver case was chosen over this design? Just a thought, although I tend to think that this is the real thing, a current prototype for the next tower revision.

I think the key feature of this prototype is the cooling system. This tower is designed to cool a cpu that runs far hotter than the current G4s. Either a new G4 on the 130 nm process, or something else.

Would a 130 nm G4 run very hot? It seems that it would run cooler at the same MHz, but at a higher MHz, it would run just as hot or hotter. I don't know enough about CPUs to know how much hotter a CPU based on the same architecture as the current G4 could run.

In any event, a hotter CPU is good news, since we can assume that hotter=better performance. It also suggests a sort of case design like the "Yikes" mobo, where this mobo will debut with the G4, but is actually designed for the G5. It is very possible that this mobo and case will be introduced with a CPU that doesn't need the full cooling capacity of the case, but in less than a year, Apple will drop in a Power 5 CPU or the like that will run hotter than a Mandrake in heat.

I can't wait for more info to leak. Surely the person who leaked this knows more about the CPU than he/she is letting on?
post #305 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Clive:
<strong>
...but loads of wires hanging out the front, it's not really "Apple" is it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You mean the digital hub?

Apple means ease of use... accesibility.. and design elegance. The front ports are for temporary connections. The back pores are for long term connections. in other words... "ease of use".

But then again these are air vents so what are we talking about anyway....

MSKR
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post #306 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong> I can't wait for more info to leak. Surely the person who leaked this knows more about the CPU than he/she is letting on?</strong><hr></blockquote>

it does seem odd that no real info has been mentioned as to the CPU that is supposedly in the case. the "guy" obviously had time to plug it into a monitor an start the thing up. hell, that's the first thing i'd do. take it for a spin so to speak.
post #307 of 689
[quote]
One thing we have to keep in mind is that we don't get these things until the channel clears.

So, i kind of hope that we are in the small majority of Mac users that know/care about this info.
...

MSKR

<hr></blockquote>

:confused:
The small majority? As opposed to the big majority?
post #308 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>

Would a 130 nm G4 run very hot? It seems that it would run cooler at the same MHz, but at a higher MHz, it would run just as hot or hotter. I don't know enough about CPUs to know how much hotter a CPU based on the same architecture as the current G4 could run.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I doubt that a faster G4 would require a cooling system of this magnitude, especially if it's 130nm. The two possibilites I see are a totally new chip (POWER-based, maybe) or a large number of processors (8? 16?).
[quote]<strong>
In any event, a hotter CPU is good news, since we can assume that hotter=better performance. It also suggests a sort of case design like the "Yikes" mobo, where this mobo will debut with the G4, but is actually designed for the G5. It is very possible that this mobo and case will be introduced with a CPU that doesn't need the full cooling capacity of the case, but in less than a year, Apple will drop in a Power 5 CPU or the like that will run hotter than a Mandrake in heat.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, this is exactly the opposite of Yikes!. Yikes! used the old board with the new chip, which meant performance stunk. This board hypothetically uses the old chip with a new board, which means performance will be much improved as the consensus is that the current Powermac's are bottlenecked by the motherboard(i.e. bus, RAM, etc.), not the processor.
post #309 of 689
The AppleP58(?) guy said on Macrumors forums that he couldn't reveal the cpu.

He said it would 'identify' him.

Make of that what you will. When some 'young gun' big mouth type on the forum got aggressive with him re: proof and credentials...he cleared off. And didn't return.

I'm with JD on this. Why such extensive cooling and massive heatsink for a processor that is nowhere near a Pentium 4 in heat or size?

Surely a G4 with .13 shrink would require the normal amount of cooling we've become accustomed to?

Certainly...the enclosure and motherboard would be last of my concerns if I had a test unit in my clutches. I'd be looking at cpu mhz and how well it ran 3D and Photoshop. Then I'd be curious about the throughput. Hell, why not post some benches to go with the photos?

A G4 on a .13 shrink would hardly identify him? As this is what is expected anyhow...unless...there is ultra security on something even better?

...and the whole 'G5' ready thing. Apple p58 didn't refute the PDF. 'Ready'. For when? Now? Or early next year?

Lemon Bon Bon

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
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post #310 of 689
I seem to recall Dorsal describing something like this a long time ago, even before the QS models were released. I remember something about the speaker placement and two full drive bays and internal layout. The search function does not seem to work anymore so I cannot find the thread. Does anyone else remember this? There seems to be a significant gap between the time Dorsal says something looks ready to be released and when Apple decides its ready to be released. Way too long gap.
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post #311 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon:
<strong> such extensive cooling and massive heatsink for a processor that is nowhere near a Pentium 4 in heat or size?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe it will be the P4 <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Not the pentium but the POWER from ibm
Or the G5 from Moto ?
Or the hammer ?

...
post #312 of 689
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but if you look at the metal drive face-plate area on the case you can see the reflection of a 2nd machine that looks similar to this. These pictures may have been taken off a production line, if more than one system is just sitting there.
post #313 of 689
I think it's "squished."

If you take the image into Fireworks (or any other editor), and resize the image to 450 px wide, it suddenly looks "more normal."


The speaker is round, and the proportions look better.
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post #314 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>In response to, "What can Apple Legal LEGITIMATELY do?" The Answer: NOTHING. They can threaten and posture because they're a huge company with lots of money, but they can't do a damned thing. They can crucify anyone with an NDA, but they can't actually touch the news outlet that carries the photos, regardless of how they were abtained. We know this because a while ago Ford Motor Co. tried to get an online magazine to quit publishing spy pics that it had obtained. The judge said no-dice. News-worthy item, if you don't want people to see it, don't let it get seen. Hence, heavily disguised test vehicles that are now the industry norm, even when deep in the confines of a company's own testing facility.

You see, if Motor-Trend runs some pre-production spy pics, nobody can touch them cause the law is on their side and they have the money to stand up to legal bullying. ANy Ziff-Davis outlet could run these shots and Apple wouldn't do sniff about it.

I'm sure most people here saved all the relevant pics. Anyone care to e-mail them to C|net with an explanation of the kind of traffic they'll recieve (though I'm sure they don't really need the explanation)

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


That would be hilarious. I think I might take it up unless someone has done it already.
post #315 of 689
Here is my quick photoshop hack job at taking off the plastic (yow!)

[off-site image]
<a href="http://eupfhoria.8k.com/G5.5.jpg" target="_blank">http://eupfhoria.8k.com/G5.5.jpg</a>

Is it just me, or does the bottom handle look horribly wrong?

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Eupfhoria ]

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: sysadmin ]</p>
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post #316 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>This is real, no doubt about it. But we don't know that it's a prototype for the next Powermac revision....it may be an older prototype that was canned. For example, there is the "2001" date on the daughter card, perhaps this means that the quicksilver case was chosen over this design? Just a thought, although I tend to think that this is the real thing, a current prototype for the next tower revision.

I think the key feature of this prototype is the cooling system. This tower is designed to cool a cpu that runs far hotter than the current G4s. Either a new G4 on the 130 nm process, or something else.

Would a 130 nm G4 run very hot? It seems that it would run cooler at the same MHz, but at a higher MHz, it would run just as hot or hotter. I don't know enough about CPUs to know how much hotter a CPU based on the same architecture as the current G4 could run.

In any event, a hotter CPU is good news, since we can assume that hotter=better performance. It also suggests a sort of case design like the "Yikes" mobo, where this mobo will debut with the G4, but is actually designed for the G5. It is very possible that this mobo and case will be introduced with a CPU that doesn't need the full cooling capacity of the case, but in less than a year, Apple will drop in a Power 5 CPU or the like that will run hotter than a Mandrake in heat.

I can't wait for more info to leak. Surely the person who leaked this knows more about the CPU than he/she is letting on?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Apple historically redesigns computers with major revisions. If they're going to switch processors, there will be much more fan fare, including a complete redesign of the case. From the outside, this case is just another variant of the last few PowerMac cases. I think this case is designed for the next revision. Though I hope it's a prototype that's going to be canned, since it's butt-ugly.
post #317 of 689
Sort of looks like the Cyclops if you look at it with a sly eye...
post #318 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by BobtheTomato:
<strong>

what about 2 or 4 processors? I'm no engineer but 2x50C=100C?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Apparently not ;-)

You are correct that with 2x50C you do have about the same amount of energy to dissipate as with 100C, but you handle these differently. One of the big variables you need to consider in cooling is the temperature gradient - the difference in temp between the hottest and coolest things. The chip is the hottest, the air is the coolest. Its easy to transfer heat across a large gradient, but harder across a small one.

If you have a very high temp gradient, then the heat will transfer much more quickly. You run into a limit of how much energy can be transferred in a given amount of time, however. If you don't get the heat off the heatsink to the air fast enough, then the gradient between the heatsink and the CPU drops, and the CPU can't give it's heat off fast enough and it'll overheat. There's a balance to maintain.

The problem with a 7lb 6" deep heatsink is that your heat reservoir (the CPUs, GPUs, etc.) shouldn't run hotter than say 50C. That means that the heatsink will never go over 50C at the point that it touches the chips. The surface areas of the heatsink should be close to the temp of the air (lets say 30C worst case) which isn't a huge temp gradient. The Al fins at the far end of the heatsink from the chip will never heat up - certainly not enough to help cool the chip.

If you wanted a 7Lb heatsink to cool a bunch of 50C CPUs and GPUs, you'd design shallow (say 1") fins over a much larger base area and distribute the chips along that surface. Imagine the mobo with chips distributed across it and and 12"x6"x1" heatsink sitting on top of all of it with air blowing across the 6" dimension. With 1" fins, it'd heat pretty well and have the same surface area. It'd also prevent the problem of the air heating on the leading edge of the heatsink and not producing a high enough gradient on the trailing edge to cool those back fins.

If there really is a heatsink like this, my guess is that it's just a testing heatsink. Something that the engineers use that fits the space and will provide maximum cooling for whatever gets shoved in there - even if it is complete overkill. Remember, these things might have 1 G4 or 4, or 2 G5, etc. (The CPU is on a riser, so who knows what will get jammed in there) The real heatsink would be engineered to require the least amount of material and cost while providing adequate cooling for what's in the final product.

The other explanation is that Apple will be using chips that run at Athlon temps - closer to 100C - and that have wattage requirements far above what we're accustomed to.
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post #319 of 689
[quote]Originally posted by Animaniac:
<strong>


Apple historically redesigns computers with major revisions. If they're going to switch processors, there will be much more fan fare, including a complete redesign of the case. From the outside, this case is just another variant of the last few PowerMac cases. I think this case is designed for the next revision. Though I hope it's a prototype that's going to be canned, since it's butt-ugly.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I f i had to guess I'd say this might be another ugly-stepsister kind of thing. Apple made the transition to the basic case form factor with the Blue and White G3 (I still remember the MOSR rumor that Apple was shopping a Strawberry and White variant to resellers *shudders* ) which was pretty ugly and pretty "loud" visually. Shortly later the same case shows up with the G4 and a new Color Scheme that was much more comfortable to the eye. Apple may go daring on this one (economy prolly won't be back till the first of the year anywho) and then at MWSF the faceplate gets a rev, maybe a color change, and a G5 and we're all eating out of Apple's hand and singing how wonderful the G5 is (and leaving unsaid how freakin' ugly we thought the last G4 was). Just a wild conspiracy theory....
"Moo" said the chicken
"Cluck" said the cow
Dr. Frankenstein rubbed his hands together with glee
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"Moo" said the chicken
"Cluck" said the cow
Dr. Frankenstein rubbed his hands together with glee
Reply
post #320 of 689
Is it just me, or is there a headless man found near the upper left corner of the slightly distorted "new case" picture? Or is it a reflection? I can see a man's right arm from the elbow to the shoulder; the guy's wearing a short sleeve shirt. The missing head might explain the pixelating in the upper handle -- the result of a quick erasure.
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