New PowerMac pictures leaked - Page 9

One more scary thought, the new case seems designed for loads of heat, the PDF by Apple58 has a mention of the G5 and then the other file Apple58 posted at MacRumors "P58: for XServe and G4/G5 server Firewire based 14 HD rack mount enclosure"which depicts a 3U unit like the one Apple previewed at the XServe launch. Now the unit previewed at the XServe launch used Fiber Channel, so if this "P85" unit is going anywhere it would seem like it would have to have comparable bandwidth. Hmmm, updated Firewire is due soon, isn't it? Then G5 Server, why create a G5 server to run alongside the XServe when you could just put a G5 in the XServe? Maybe the G5's thermal requirements are too much for the XServe enclosure? One last thing, the odd looking metal finish on the front of the Optical drives, I wonder if the whole Optical drive assembly(both drives and the Power Switch Bezel) could be pulled out and rotated allowing you to use your G5 tower in a rack while retaining the use of your Optical drive(s)?

This case design is older than dirt and Mr. Ives must be taking happy pills because I have seen better designs posted in these forums. I think it will be used as both a G4 version this August and a G5 version next year with only minor cosmetic differences. I was really hoping for an Xserve "tower" type of design. It looks more like a PC knockoff of a Mac with the wierd metal drive bays among all the surrounding plastic. It just doesn't look right at all. Very odd. It seems FireWire 2 is MIA too. I don't think the specs are going to make up for the ugly exterior. I have a bad feeling about this...

Oh, geez, some of you are idiots.

1) There is no conspiracy to 'delay' releasing the new product to clear out inventory.....that's not how ANYONE does business with a deprciating product like a computer. The longer it sits on the shelf, the less valuable it becomes. In Apple's case, they will do what they always do: offer deals on old products when new ones hit the market.

2) There is no G5. There is no G5. There is no G5. POWER4 is NOT coming to the Mac. POWER4 is NOT coming to the Mac. POWER4 is NOT coming to the Mac. Processor development is an open secret, and the 'open secret' coming from Motorola is that they have basically given up.

3) The shiny metal face is OBVIOUSLY the punchout for the new drive bays. This thing will be clean and plastic-clad just like every ElCap and ElCap derivative. The drive doors are missing.

I give up. People will believe anything but actual reason.

ting5

[quote]Originally posted by Me, myself, back on page 6:
[QB] However, this channel clearing wait game fiasco IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN INTERNET FORUM/CHAT phenomena created in the minds of people who don't understand a damned thing a about the market. If they're not here now, it's cause they're not ready yet. The odds of clearing-out a powermac are not good and they get worse every day. The MARGINS on ALL POWERMACS are EXTREMELY HIGH. IF the replacement were ready, the old machines would get a serious markdown and get dumped to a few major institutional buyers around the world (still at a nice profit)

So get over it, there is no waiting game, geez!<hr></blockquote>

glad to find at least a few cookies with some sense.

[quote]Originally posted by johnsonwax:

The problem with a 7lb 6" deep heatsink is that your heat reservoir (the CPUs, GPUs, etc.) shouldn't run hotter than say 50C. <hr></blockquote>

So which is heavier: a 7 lb aluminum heatsink or a 7 lb steel heatsink?

Interesting idea about the optical drives/power button assembly's orientation being alterable. I don't know how well the box itself works for rackmounting, isn't a 3rd party mounting kit required?

Also, though this may be a test box, and therefore the aesthetics are not the final rendering, I'm curious if the shiny aluminum plate looks better when the rest of the box isn't washed out by poor photography? Any PS cats out there able to do a quick layer on the external photo to color the box's plastic the appropriate silver tone? It may be this is a final case, and the scheme looks more complimentary with accurate color representation.

[quote]Originally posted by Yet Another Registration:
<strong>

3) The shiny metal face is OBVIOUSLY the punchout for the new drive bays. This thing will be clean and plastic-clad just like every ElCap and ElCap derivative. The drive doors are missing.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Except that the power button is already flush with the metal panel and it shipped with a film over the metal panel to protect it. This is how its going to look as shipped.

[quote]Originally posted by LudwigVan:
<strong>Is it just me, or is there a headless man found near the upper left corner of the slightly distorted "new case" picture? Or is it a reflection? I can see a man's right arm from the elbow to the shoulder; the guy's wearing a short sleeve shirt. The missing head might explain the pixelating in the upper handle -- the result of a quick erasure.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yep there is somone there...it looks a though his head has indeed been edited out...

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/mjr22/.Pictures/arm.jpg" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/mjr22/.Pictures/arm.jpg</a> [off-site image]

Marcus

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Marcus ]

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: sysadmin ]</p>

Re: heatsink overkill

Would 4 G4s generate huge amounts of heat? Especially 4 x 1.4Ghz.

4 x 1.4 DDR G4s would be useful for Shake...

TING5, i feel your pain, do what i do, when people talk (or write as is the case) about the G5, i pretend they are just reffering to a "next Generation chip". i agree with you that a 85XX moto processor is ultra unlikely, nigh impossible if for no other reason jag isnt 64 bit, and "eleven" isnt expected until late 2004.

Once again I am gonna toss this out for all you 'last post' readers


The metal plate is the ONLY piece of the new case. The rest is filler.

Reasons it is on this unit:

it is the only cd over within Apple that would support dual optical drives.

it contains the power button, reset and programmers hole (that is not an audio jack), which are required to operate the machine.

the metal piece is covered in static plastic. a tin cut out place holder would never get such treatment

the mechanism for the CD door, unlike the rest of the case, would require some Industrial Design, the rest is just cobbled parts

Lastly, my own observation. Apple would never produce a materials conflicted version of like this. There is no reason to have a metal cover like this ala Graphite G4s when the QS covers were a step forward.

I passed this around to 2 ID (industrial designer) clients in idle chit-chat and they bot agreed separately, without my input, it looked very much like a test bed and what one referred to as a 'parts fitting example'

This same client also looked at the internals and thought the metals looked to rough and lacking final detail to be production.

They both admitted it was difficult from the photo but both were emphatic that this not would be the shipping case.

So the port on the red board wasn't IEEE 1394b port all along...that sucks. I want 1394b.

I believe one of the EE types around here stated that heat output is roughly proportional to the square of the clock rate. If you double a chip's clock, you get four times the heat. We expect a 0.13 micron G4, but if it doesn't materialize then a 20-40% increase in clock rate would require a large heat sink. If we do get a 0.13 micron version that may give a 20-30% clock increase "for free" and we're seeing an attempt by Apple & Moto to "catch up" in terms of performance. Clock rate aside, if they've managed to lick the MPX bus bottleneck and 4 processors is suddenly viable this would also require a lot of cooling capacity. 4 1.5GHz G4s + sophisticated chipset + nv30 or Radeon9700 = a lot of heat.

The big heatsink:

These boxes are not supposed to be opened. It seems somebody was bold enough to do so, despite whatever anti-tampering mechanism (some kind of tape perhaps) that would indicate whether or not the case were opened (when returned to Apple).

If tape or something similarly vulnerable to an accidental removal or displacement (I wouldn't open one of these boxes unless I felt I could say that the anti-tampering mechanism was damaged during shipping or something.) is employed by Apple for its prototype models, then it would make sense for Apple to employ additional means to discourge individuals from looking at the motherboard. Perhaps, this huge heat sink is just another means to discourage and identify tampering? I presume, if one didn't remove it, that one couldn't see much of the motherboard?

You see, I imagine there's a percentage of people that would remove the heat sink and a percentage the would not. So, this is yet another possible means to discourage partners from tinkering where Apple doesn't want them.

If I were Apple, and I only had a couple of dozen of prototype models out and about, and of course, if I placed such high value on secrecy as SJ does, then I would exploit the placement of the motherboard components and subcomponents themselves to identify the motherboard, and hence the 'violators'. Thus, whenever a mobo photo hits the web, I could look at the placement of the various components, refer to my references/notes, identify which prototype unit it is, and thus identify who was in possession of the prototype.

So, in short, let us consider the possibility that this heat sink merely serves to discourage someone from looking at the new mobo.

Eirik

[quote]Originally posted by Blackcat:
<strong>Re: heatsink overkill

Would 4 G4s generate huge amounts of heat? Especially 4 x 1.4Ghz.

4 x 1.4 DDR G4s would be useful for Shake...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, with no FSB improvements (i.e., not Xserve DDR), then no, it wouldn't be useful. I don't think we'll see &gt;2 CPU systems out of Apple until the FSB gets a huge kick in the ass. Remember, even 2 1.4GHz G4s will often be starved with PC2700 SDRAM, let alone 4.

*HUGE* kick in the ass...

But yes, it would kick out some serious heat. The other reason why giant heatsink doesn't help that much is that the case will still counteract the effects of the heatsink by restricting air flow. The reason a motorcycle doesn't need such a big heatsink is it gets heaps of airflow, even when sitting still.

If we're talking lots of low-temp heat, we need fans, not heatsinks. Drawing the heat away from the chip is less important than blowing it out of the case.

This is a prototype and will not ship as is. Ives is not so aesthetically blind.

[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
<strong>I believe one of the EE types around here stated that heat output is roughly proportional to the square of the clock rate. If you double a chip's clock, you get four times the heat. We expect a 0.13 micron G4, but if it doesn't materialize then a 20-40% increase in clock rate would require a large heat sink. If we do get a 0.13 micron version that may give a 20-30% clock increase "for free" and we're seeing an attempt by Apple & Moto to "catch up" in terms of performance. Clock rate aside, if they've managed to lick the MPX bus bottleneck and 4 processors is suddenly viable this would also require a lot of cooling capacity. 4 1.5GHz G4s + sophisticated chipset + nv30 or Radeon9700 = a lot of heat.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That sounds about right (heat goes with the square of the clock). But I'm curious how Apple would vent this thing. If you *need* that big of a heatsink, then you're gonna have to put something on the scale of the Xserve fans to draw that heat out of the box. I'm getting images of small insects being sucked up into those front air intakes given the size of the outflow surface.

It's gonna be loud, and it's gonna suck down power like mad. This won't be like your father's PowerMacintosh, that's for sure. Might not even be like your father's athlon...

Looks like Dorsal and Kormac were right all along.
Good work guys!
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

The French web site that first posted the new G4 pictures has now been taken down all together :confused:

<a href="http://www.macbidouille.com" target="_blank">Macbidouille</a>

There is just a maintenance page with the following ( translated to English via babelfish)

[quote]
MacBidouille is moving. Find us on the forums:
forum.macbidouille.com

The site should remain to close two days. Thank you for your comprehension.

Do not forget that you can help us by making a gift! Details.

<hr></blockquote>

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Moonraker ]

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Moonraker ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights:
<strong>

So which is heavier: a 7 lb aluminum heatsink or a 7 lb steel heatsink?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I hope that's supposed to be a joke?

It's back up, but no pictures.

[quote]Originally posted by Moonraker:
<strong>The French web site that first posted the new G4 pictures has now been taken down all together :confused:

<a href="http://www.macbidouille.com" target="_blank">Macbidouille</a>

There is just a maintenance page with the following ( translated to English via babelfish)



[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Moonraker ]

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Moonraker ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
It appears to be up now, with an article commenting on the 45 degree rotation, comparing it to the eMac. They have one picture up, but I think that's just the eMac.

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: qazII ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Clive:
<strong>

I hope that's supposed to be a joke?</strong><hr></blockquote>

C'mon, I know Americans are supposed to be incapable of irony, but as one Limey to another, get it on.....or were you joking? I can't tell anymore.

Sorry if this has already been posted... I'm trying to keep up witht this thread, but it is getting huge!


anyway... the guys over at <a href="http://www.applexnews.com" target="_blank">www.applexnews.com</a> posted the following as far as the specs of the new systems go....

[quote]Posted at <a href="http://www.applexnews.com:" target="_blank">www.applexnews.com:</a>
<strong>
Processor

Dual PowerPC G4 processors(1.2ghz,1.4ghz,1.6ghz)
Velocity Engine vector processing unit
Full 128-bit internal memory data paths
Powerful floating-point unit supporting single-cycle, double-precision calculations
Data stream prefetching operations supporting four simultaneous 32-bit data streams
512k on-chip L2 cache
2MB DDR SRAM L3 cache per processor
333MHz system frontside bus supporting over 2.7GB/s data throughput

Memory

512MB or 1024MB of 333MHz PC2700 DDR SDRAM with up to 5.4GB/s throughput
(dual memory controllers 2.7 for each channel)
Four DIMM slots supporting up to 2GB of DDR SDRAM using the following: 128MB
or 256MB DIMMs (64-bit-wide, 128Mb technology) 512MB DIMMs (64-bit-wide, 256Mb
technology) I/O connections AGP Pro 110watt universal slot supports graphics
cards running at 8x,4x,2x Six full-length 64-bit, 66MHz PCI slots supports 32-bit
or 64-bit 3.3V PCI cards running at 33MHz respectively
One 10/100/1000BASE-T (Gigabit) RJ-45 Ethernet connectors, on logic board
One 56k v.92 voice/fax modem
RJ-11 teleco connector,on logic board
Ready for wireless networking: Built-in antennas and card slot for optional
54Mbps AirPort Card; IEEE 802.11g compliant
Four 800Mb/s FireWire2 ports (three on back panel;one on front panel; 15W total
power)
(4) Four USB2.0 ports 12 Mbs-480 Mb/s each (three on back panel;one on front
panel)

Graphics

Nvidia Geforce4Ti 4200 AGP graphics card with 64MB of DDR SDRAM graphics ADC
and DVi connector dual display support for extended desktop and video mirroring
modes (standard across entire lineup)
Optional ATI RADEON R250 AGP graphics card with 128MB of DDR SDRAM and ADC,DVI,
and S-video connectors; dual display support, support for digital and analog
resolutions up to 2048 by 1536 pixels

Storage

Two external 3.5 bays with independent 133MB/s buses for up to 240GB of internal
storage using hot-plug Apple Drive Modules, available in the following capacities:
60GB 7200-rpm Ultra ATA/133 with 8MB disk cache 120GB 7200-rpm Ultra ATA/133
with 8MB disk cache
One bay filled with 60GB 7200-rpm Apple Drive Module (standard configurations)
Support for reading SMART data from Apple Drive Modules for early failure notification
Two open internal 3.5 bays(for internal IDE harddrives)
Two external 5.25 bay one filled with tray-loading 40x20x40x CDR/RW drive with
front-panel eject button
Optional Superdrive Dvd-R 4x,Dvd-rom 24x,CDR/RW 24x12x40x
Optional Ultra160 SCSI PCI card for connecting to external storage and backup
devices.
Optional Ultra ATA 133 RAID card (supports RAID 0,1,01 )

Audio:

Built-in speaker
Apple speaker minijack for connection to Apple Pro Speakers
Optional Apple Pro Speakers
Headphone/line out minijack
Support for external third-party FireWire and USB digital audio peripherals
such as microphones, speakers, and MIDI devices
</strong><hr></blockquote>

not sure where they got the info from but I sure wouldn't mind if it was true

Later

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Blizaine ]</p>

although my opinion adds to all the other wortless opinos here ithink i shuld express it.

It appears to be a very early prototype. It looks very rough. For a machine thats coming out in a few weeks possibly shipping then at least partially or even in september...it looks like this thing is not ready for prodcution.

It does indeed look cool and unfinished...maybe this is apples case for a power based mac for next year or g5 of some sort. but thats if u trust whats inside

Also lets remember that apple thought of a flat screen iMac very early on and coudn't make one cause of price as a result the cube was made. this is just to demonstrate the time apple spends on designing and releasing a product

All i hope is that there is in fact DDR ram and a very powerful fsb because i'm buying the next revision of the powermac and i want something good

AS FOR THE POST ABOVE
dual across i doubt it..would be nice and a 1.6 ghz g4? do those exist?

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: O and A ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Blizaine:
<strong>Sorry if this has already been posted... I'm trying to keep up witht this thread, but it is getting huge!


anyway... the guys over at <a href="http://www.applexnews.com" target="_blank">www.applexnews.com</a> posted the following as far as the specs of the new systems go....



not sure where they got the info from but I sure wouldn't mind if it was true

Later

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Blizaine ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's way too good to be true...

Those specs are completely ridiculous. The person who fabricated the specs obviously thinks the ATI R250 is faster than a GeForce4 Ti 4200. False. 4 IEEE 1394b ports? Oh please. 1.6 GHz, in our dreams. AGP 8x is only backward compatible down to 4x. Sigh, so many mistakes... There don't exist any 60 GB IDE HDDs with 8 MB of cache.

And whatever else I haven't bothered to point out.

i must disagree with those of you of the opinion that inventory plays no role in a powermac delay. its not likely to be the only reason though.

1. macworld is for releasing consumer products only, i think its a safe bet that apple wants too separate the "pro" line from the consumer line more. look back over the last few pro-product releases QS, Xserve and now Shake, all released on their own.

2. production lead time, this is important when you are preparing to release a high demand item. it creates a small buffer for chip production and other lag areas, if any.

3. 3rd party goodies, hypothetically lets say the high end model is supposed to ship with the ATI 9700. its not ready yet, you got to wait or leave your big spenders high and dry.

4. big fat inventory sitting around doing squat, except costing you money for every day it sits there. what do you do, release the new model and kill whatever chance you have to sucker a few people who want to save a few hundred semolians, or do you try and move a few weeks of the stuff before you cut your loses. hmmm. what would you do. not what do you want them to do. high margins or not, dead weight still needs to be cut off or you sink.

now of course there might other reasons for a "delay" but i think the four i listed are good enough for our purposes. alone, no one thing makes the argument, all together its a logical process.

Just an FYI, those "specs" were floating around the rumor forums over a month ago and it turned out to be bogus. It includes some items from the Xserve spec sheet that do not apply. Move along.

[quote]Originally posted by Da sinister:
<strong>i must disagree with those of you of the opinion that inventory plays no role in a powermac delay. its not likely to be the only reason though.

1. macworld is for releasing consumer products only, i think its a safe bet that apple wants too separate the "pro" line from the consumer line more. look back over the last few pro-product releases QS, Xserve and now Shake, all released on their own.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think u might have made a mistake i could be wrong some one here might be ableto point it out .

Original Quicksilver was released at MWNY

Also i'm not quite sure but i think iBook was upgraded recently at a non macworld event.

"The folks over at MacRumors broke the story of prototype pictures of the new PowerMac enclosure and motherboard, very similar to several snapshots which MOSR has had access to for several weeks under embargo from the source."

- MOSR

Paging Dorsal Moki... Get your butt in here and tell us what you think of these developments!

HAHAHAH is that embargo an MOSR claim?

u can rarely put anny creedence to what MOSR has to say

...bagging on MOSR and thinking you don't sound like a broken record...

Yup, MOSR says things like that whenever they get scooped by someone else.. which is quite a bit. Though at the time of this posting they have the numbers to host the picture of the case. Got to give them that.

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: apple.otaku ]</p>

about that big old heat sink, has anyone seen it. or are we talking about the .pdf that someone slapped together. if we have a pic of it someplace then post for scrutiny, otherwise its easily a typo or bad data. the size of a 7lb. heatsink would kill air flow for certain, better to drop a fan on the chip. i think we should move on.

i think that's the million dollar question.

if pdf = true

WHY A BIG OLE HEATSINK?

surprise CPU anyone?

im sure the current Quik Silver came out just after MWSF. the dual 1Ghz. machines were definatly released then. my guess is that were seeing the implementation of some new policey of sorts. honestly it does not matter to me where the release takes place as long as it happens. better to get it in august than january.

So this isn't fake?

FireWire 2/Gigawire?

Umm if it ain't fake then why does MOSR still have them up and why are they available throughout this board? Usually Apple legal is far more throrough and quicker.

Then again faking this is pretty hard