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New Set of Next-Gen Power Mac Rumors - Page 2

post #41 of 153
I concur...keep the PowerMacs as the midrange system, and the new workstation level performance machine kicks all tail. Wouldn't that be soooo nice!

The new Apple POWERWorks
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post #42 of 153
I agree....and CIRCLE GETS THE SQUARE!
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post #43 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by Eupfhoria:
<strong>

I can name 3 people who have swtiched to the mac from the wintel world because of OS X. They don't care that much about the speed of a high end Intel.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Read my sig.
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post #44 of 153
[quote]Since he is a Software QA guy whose focus is testing device drivers<hr></blockquote>

And now that's he unemployed, he'll have plenty of time to get on here himself!

Sheesh, mon. Protect your sources!
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #45 of 153
A product like this would really help Apple fill the niches they need to achieve a much higher market share, and the more I think about it, the more I think it may happen.

When Apple was only focused on the 4 quadrants for computers, it was a time of rebuilding and retrenching. Now that they have resolidified their base, they must realise it is time to branch into new markets. This is made obvious by the Xserve.

The only way Apple can break their single digit share is to enter new markets. Apple had to retrench in their hold on their traditional markets, like edu and publishing. They obviously need to keep making advances here, but I think new markets are needed to break into double digit share. I think Apple should keep the PowerMac line squarely focused on their tradition customers. Publishing and graphics need exactly these types of machines, albeit with much more punch as we move forward.

Inertia drives sales in the computer market. Apple obviously wants highend video as it's next market, as well as highly computationally intensive scientific fields. Releasing a workstation class computer to fill their needs makes a lot of sense. If Apple can enter and somewhat dominate these markets, directly attributable unit and revenue growth probably wouldn't be huge. However, these same companies would then have an incentive to also use other Macs (PowerMacs, iMacs) throughout the rest of their business. Once established as the primary platform of the business, it often makes sense for the ancilliary machines of the business to integrate the same platform. While Apple has always promoted heterogenus environments, a homogenus environment would be advantageous for Apple here. Inertia is a strong factor in the computer industry. Windows sales promote Office sale which in turn promote Windows sales. I am suggesting a similar scenario here. Apple uses these new workstation Macs to gain a strong foot fold, to follow up with their other offerings. Apple goes from being a bit supplier to being a whole-solution provider. Apple breaks into being a tier-1 vendor.

For this to work in my mind, Apple must make these workstation Macs an addition to their line up and not a replacement for the PowerMacs. PowerMacs should continue to to offered as their primary platform for their traditional markets, and the workstations aimed and an entirely new market. Just like the Xserve, you get the specialized product in the door, to open it up for your volume offerings. This would not be a product marketed toward business users in general, or to traditional "power users", and especially not to individuals. It would be marketed as the hub of a whole-solution package.

In fact, in my thinking, the "G5" or whatever chip is used in the next gen PowerMacs is not the chip spoken of by Deep Mac. The PowerMac should advance to the G5, and use desktop standard features like memory architecture, system bus etc. The workstation Macs should be much more SGI-like. They should be clearly differentiated by more than just processor speed and basic specs. They should be based on far advanced architecture, relative to what would be standard in a PowerMac at the same time.

Anyway, that is my ramble for tonight. I must say, this has been a pretty good thread.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #46 of 153
OS X makes it work

In addition, having a workstation like SGI or old Vax (as I have used in the '80's) that would run regular word, spreadsheet, games, etc programs is a real plus. The old VAX machines (and CDC 6000, 6400, 7600 and Crays) were great number crunchers/mathmatical modeling tools and even allowed for nice fly-over geologic renders of various exploration areas, but when it came to graphing data and writing reports they were a gigantic pain (which would cause numerous trips to technical illustrators and editors)

[ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: Bigc ]</p>
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #47 of 153
I'd love to go along with this, but a 10-post or less poster bearing secrets always makes me activate my Troll Shields and say "yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah....whatever".

Anyway, we already had a discussion about somebody coming back as "Deep Mac" or "Mac Throat" over in General Discussion a week or so ago. That's still too fresh in my mind not to make me think somebody's having fun.

So, talk to the hand...sorry that I'm not willing to play along.

<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

D
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Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon @ drewprops.com
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post #48 of 153
The problem with this workstation idea is that it might be an excuse to let Powermacs languish with lame specs.

What I see in all of this is Apple selling a $5000 workstation with performance comparable to that of a $1200 Wintel box. Powermacs would still get hammered in benchmarks, and iMacs would keep using 3 year old technology.

Apple needs to have Powermacs that have state of the art specs and performance. Once they nail down Powermac performance, THEN they can concentrate on a workstation with performance unequalled by any x86 computer in existence.

Otherwise, if Professionals are forced to spend $5000 on a Mac if they want superior performance, then they are going to opt for Wintels, no matter how great OS X is. Everyone has their limits, their "price", ,and Apple already is pushing it with their pricing scheme.
post #49 of 153
What if in fact there really were two separate lines soon for the "PowerMacs?"

Deskmacs:

<a href="http://www.deskmac.com" target="_blank">http://www.deskmac.com</a>
(this was just registered on the 22nd by the way)

These would be the mid-range line. Then the new PowerMacs would be the bad-ass hypercooled things we have all been dreaming about, however, they'd be more expensive because of the raw power inside.

Just a thought.......
post #50 of 153
I don't see the workstation vs 'power'Mac line being a problem...as long as, JD, that Apple behave themselves with their spec/pricing.

If next year the line breaks into two:

Single and Dual 32-bit G5s making up the 'mid range'/standard 'power'Mac line...

Later, 64 bit Dual G5, Quad G5 with advanced architecture and high end 'Quadro' style card making up the low end SGi territory workstation Mac.

The 'G5' roadmap had the 'G5' in two flavours, 32 and 64 bit.

Shake seems to offer a hint of what's to come.

It wasn't that long ago that Apple were charging almost £5K for 'POWER'Macs with all the trimmings on... A workstation product is not improbable now we've seen the Xserve.

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #51 of 153
PowerStation G5.
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post #52 of 153
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #53 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>

And now that's he unemployed, he'll have plenty of time to get on here himself!

Sheesh, mon. Protect your sources!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I concur ... after reading you're description of your source; buddy's not just in danger of getting fired, but electrocuted after reading what you've spilled about him and instantly wetting himself ... bare metal prototypes aren't especially kind about that sort of thing ya know.
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post #54 of 153
It's all well and good that Apple wants "No less than 25% marketshare", but the biggest problem is that Microsoft wants no less than 100% marketshare.
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post #55 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by Bigc:
<strong>I suggest you read some interesting comments by Armas

<a href="http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=901091507 4&p=2" target="_blank">http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=901091507 4&p=2</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

If what Armas says is true... all I can say is *WOW*!!!

:eek:
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post #56 of 153
Hmm. That link made my head spin.

I'd hope even a grain of it comes true in the next year...

Makes my wait for a POWERMac system even more excruciating.

Der-rool, der-rool.

Has Programmer read that link yet?

I'd be interesting in reading what he thinks...

Great link.

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #57 of 153
though someone in the forum didn't think much of what he said. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

as you said, if even a little bit of this comes true its going to be a good few years! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
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post #58 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by Commander Max:
... Aside from that, the boxes themselves are indistinguishable from any other PC/Workstation/Server machine in his QA Lab. Deep Mac is unconvinced that 3rd party developers ever see new Apple industrial design concepts, and that leaks of pictures etc. of new Apple Industrial Design must come from Apple itself or a subsidiary.
<hr></blockquote>

CUPERTINO, CA -- (July 26, 2002) In technology news today, all software QA engineers, technicians, custodians and their dogs in North America were summarily executed.

In unrelated news, Apple iCEO Steve Jobs' collection of shrunken human heads has just been recognized by the Guinness Book of World Records as the largest.
Die Grüne Hölle - Gute Fahrt
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post #59 of 153
Bigc

Not flaming Aramas, I don't have enough knowledge/expertise to dispute any of his claims, BUT, usually when something sounds TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, it usually is.

On the other hand I'm looking forward to my DUAL IBM G4's at 100GHz by the end of the year.

[ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #60 of 153
Holy crap that Armas guy talks the talk.

That is amazingly exciting stuff - almost too amazing. Some stuff including the IBM 800GHz thing is simply unbelievable (meaning I can't see how it could be based in reality). But exciting none the less.

Now, if it some or all of it were(is?) true... simply awesome.

[ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: The Pie Man ]

[ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: The Pie Man ]</p>
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post #61 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by othello:
<strong>

If what Armas says is true... all I can say is *WOW*!!!

:eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>

There is someone poking holes in that post over there. And some of it is a little unbelievable. Just the part of 800Ghz IBM processors is a little strange. What type of processor is it? Does it only do one instruction... NOOP? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
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post #62 of 153
Portions of the part about IBM are true. They have set astonishing records in GHz. using Germanium, but as I recall and I'm too lazy to look it up, introduction won't be for a few years.

Ah heck, I looked it up anyway<a href="http://www.ibm.com/news/2001/06/25.phtml" target="_blank">100 GHz pie in the sky</a>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #63 of 153
Good Gawd. I about to wet myself. I haven't been this excited since the allenmcjones, kormac, dorsal rumors. Can you imagine a 2-3GHZ Mac? Oh man, oh man, I just p*ssed on myself
post #64 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by rickag:
<strong>Bigc

Not flaming Aramas, I don't have enough knowledge/expertise to dispute any of his claims, BUT, usually when something sounds TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, it usually is.

On the other hand I'm looking forward to my DUAL IBM G4's at 100GHz by the end of the year.

[ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: rickag ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


Well, I agree it does sound to good to be true but it definitely sparks your interest and indicates that there are options on the horizon. The DSP stuff agrees with what Moki and others have said and the different machines they have tried agrees with Dorsal posts from two years ago (DDR, etc) and indicates that Moto is trying to do something with regards to desktop alternatives, which, from a business and PR standpoint makes sense. I also think the points about Apple expecting MOTO to have a chip with a DDR controller on board made it so Apple didn't try to make mods themselves but problems develop in the design of anything an then Xserve.

Time will tell, the fact is that faster machines will eventually come out and the question is when.
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
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post #65 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon:
<strong>Hmm. That link made my head spin.

I'd hope even a grain of it comes true in the next year...

Makes my wait for a POWERMac system even more excruciating.

Der-rool, der-rool.

Has Programmer read that link yet?

I'd be interesting in reading what he thinks...

Great link.

Lemon Bon Bon </strong><hr></blockquote>


and I thought you said I never offered anything

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
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post #66 of 153
On further review, I'm not waiting on the 100 GHz/ dual G4 Powermacs, "Why",you ask.

You think the current G4's are band width choked, holy smoke, a dual 100GHz G4 with a 133MHz FSB would blow so many bubbles you'd think Lawrence Welk was performing a concert in you computer. :eek:
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Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #67 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by ouroboros:
<strong>What if in fact there really were two separate lines soon for the "PowerMacs?"

Deskmacs:

<a href="http://www.deskmac.com" target="_blank">http://www.deskmac.com</a>
(this was just registered on the 22nd by the way)
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Very intriguing.

This stuff makes a lot of sense. Apple's high-end software offerings are enabling them to tap into a new market in which the cost of hardware is basically no object provided the performance and productivity benefits are real. A high-end Mac workstation running Shake, FCP, Reason, Silicon Grail et al at speeds satisfying to professionals (along with Photoshop, MS Office, IE et al for productivity when necessary) would be one-stop shopping for a lot of professional film/audio production houses, and I think even if they ended up costing 10 grand each Apple could sell a boatload of them.

Another benefit is that these kinds of buyers are a lot more tech-saavy than the average consumer. Apple could build a system with, say, a 1Mhz G5+ (or whatever) and a memory/bus architecture so insanely efficient that it ran rings around systems with three times the clock speed, and there'd be no need to go on about the "Megahertz Myth"; these professionals don't need to be told that clock speed isn't the be-all and end-all of performance. But like I said, the only problem would be that these systems really would need to be fast, much faster than any current Macintosh, and they'd need to be fast in ways that can be quantified and benchmarked (not "I'm a lot more productive on my PowerMac, even if it takes me six times as long to render my footage").

Can Apple do it? Would they be buying all these high-end software products if they didn't think they could?
post #68 of 153
macrumors says deskmac.com is a fraud.
post #69 of 153
i think the (germanium) 800ghz chips tech is for a diff kind of chip. one used in mobile phone tech. i think.
post #70 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon:
<strong>Has Programmer read that link yet?

I'd be interesting in reading what he thinks... </strong><hr></blockquote>

Nothing really revolutionary in there -- it sounds like he's been reading this forum for the last 6 months. What was it in there that you found particularly amazing? There are a bunch of things that don't make any sense, and he's been listening to some of the reasonably optimistic rumours. If you're a pessimist you'll dismiss all that just as you would have dismissed it when you read it here. The guy has no credibility to make his statements more believable, and he makes several mistakes (technical and grammar!) which makes him questionable.
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post #71 of 153
the 800 Ghz chip he was talking about is a typo.
He still is posting , just refresh the ars forum.
He meant 80 Ghz and the 100 Ghz , and apparently now 110 Ghz , he provided links also
post #72 of 153
oh. i must have been thinking of something else. thanks.
post #73 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by Aris:
<strong>

OSX is VERY tempting when you run a wintel machine and you have to reset it DAILY just to keep it running correctly. and you have to REFORMAT almost on a yearly basis when the BSOD's start nockin on your doorstep.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

re-format yearly? Ever tried developing for the windows platform? try reformatting every 1-3 months for any non-win2K machine (6 mos for NT4). I have no opinion on winXP, as I haven't used it for development yet.

Its that damn shared .dll architecture that makes system maintenance a nightmare. I started out developing on 95, then 98 and reformatting was just part of the job. With NT4 it got better, and better still with 2K (Im working on 9 months with my current installation, only my 2nd in 2 years).

Ive heard not so good things about XP stomping on its system files, but its relatively immature compared to 2K right now.

I LOVE OSX, since I had no legacy software or devices I punted OS9 off my iBook and never looked back. BRING ON JAGUAR

I'll pay
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post #74 of 153
"and I thought you said I never offered anything "

Well, credit where it's due...

(Mind you...the length of that read/link equals the total sum of useless one liners you put in here over the last gawd knows how long...)



I'd happily take more constructive contributions like this! It kinda had me laying eggs...(excitement...)

You've upped the anti with that link!

Hmmm. Authentic or not...in one big dollop...it makes an enticing read.

Programmer. I take your point(s). However, the 'tone' of said post made me realise just what Apple might have been up against. ie Motorola may have dropped the ball like they did with the original G4 debut...so...Apple 'do it themselves' with regard the 'X-serve'. Hoping that whatever problems dogged the 'genuine' DDR solution/bus will be resolved by Moto' for a late summer/fall release. Could it be a case that they were trying to be 'too clever' with the 'intended' motherboard...? ie In light of reducing the 'perceived' performance gap they aimed too high and tripped up. ie Overcomplicated instead of getting the basic thing out there? ...and now will probably end up with a 'hack' or 'basic' DDR solution just to finally get it out the door...

In the meantime, the DDR 'straight through...' solution will be worked on and hopefully yields will be improved for a Rio/7500 launch early next year. I take it this is Programmer's favoured 'controller' performance booster. With a 7500 no less!? A stretched pipeline taking us up to 2.4 gig?!?! If they can do that...then Moto'/Apple will be the comeback kid.

What I viewed as 'apathy' or 'negligence' in getting to more modern specs...seem like they are genuine engineering problems with PPC's/motorola etc. Spending ages on a DDR board then yields are crap...or there are bugs...or it get canned due to one or more reasons.

Okay. I can perhaps understand why we don't have DDR...but still, you'd hope that the combined might of Apple/IBM and Motorola would be able to come up with a DDR motherboard solution? Taiwanese motherboard makers are spitting them out left right and centre...and faster than 266!

Many of my posts have been frustrated (much like the response of many to no 'power'Macs at New York...) but the link gave me an insight (true or not...) on what the hell has been going on with the 'lack' of progress on PPC.

With Intel revealing their roadmap plans well in advance...it'd be nice if Apple just came clean and told us what the hell is happening with PPC. I, for one...could plan my buying accordingly.

I heard many moons ago that the 7500 was the G5. Turns out...this is a superstretched G4 apollo on Rio architecture. That's what we'll get next year. Well the Register said that too? The guy on that board seems to say the same. But is the 7500 on Moto's site?

The 7470, on the other hand, is what we'll get next month? 1-1.5 Gig on X-serve DDR at least? Nice catch up. But by the time it ships...I'd rather hang on for the Rio '7500'. The first time I heard about the G5 anyhow (some years ago...)..the info' seemed to indicate it was merely a pipeline stretched G4 Apollo on superior throughput. I think I could buy that machine.

Fact or fiction. I dunno. But it kinda put everything in perspective re: PPC over the next year re: the lack of delivery and WHAT may be coming and when in a nutshell. Altivec II sounds nice.

Things aren't looking as bad as I thought...as long as they deliver.

Lemon Bon Bon (My smile is back.)

[ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
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post #75 of 153
Just a thought: This guys' said that the specs he's thrown around are all publically available. Sure enough, some of the G5 specs (64 bit, 2.4GHz, etc.) have been made publically available... at the Register.

Keep your salt shaker handy.
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post #76 of 153
Armas, what a character! Obviously he doesn't work for Apple...if he ever did then he's fired by now. He breaks NDA every other sentence in his post.


One thing that was very interesting was his bit about the reason Apple is stuck with PC 133; that they are waiting on Moto's next G4 revision that will have ATA controller, DDR333 controller, and more all on die. Is this something that is likely? Anyone here know for sure?

If so, then not only would it explain Apple's lag in this area, but it would suggest that when Apple finally does "fix" their mobos, they will leapfrog everything on the Wintel side.
post #77 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>Armas, what a character! Obviously he doesn't work for Apple...if he ever did then he's fired by now. He breaks NDA every other sentence in his post.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

... the other big problem, is this guy's written verbal style is so distinctively messed up, that anybody'd who'd worked with him and read anything of his could practicaly smell his identity thru that prose.

If this guy indeed works for Apple, his secret identity is no secret.

He should leak his stuff to somebody else, and get &lt;i&gt; them &lt;/i&gt; to write it.
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post #78 of 153
DDR motherboards for current PCs are nowhere near as efficient as Apple's memory architecture -- Apple is getting 75-85% efficiency out of the SDRAM, whereas many of the PC boards are lucky to get 50%. Rather than spending the effort to get a fairly minor incremental improvement, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that Apple decided to "skip" a generation and go for a bigger leap. They've done that in the past, and it is a reasonable course of action. Engineering being what it is, however, means that schedules can slip... so they've had to scramble in the meantime.

The Xserve is an intermediate solution, albeit a decent one for a server. It may also be a chipset that Apple bought rather than developed in-house. Or last year they simply took their existing chipset and extended it by the most expedient method possible to add the capabilities that the Xserve needs. They might have done this regardless of the processor plan because it makes more sense for a server machine. If the processor-based plan isn't ready yet they may be forced to use the Xserve chipset in the PowerMac just to keep up until their "leap frog" can finally happen.

TheRegister's 7500 rumour represents a huge change to the processor -- it is perfectly reasonable to call it a G5. The Arman fellow got the "AltiVec-II" from the fact that the 8540 has SIMD instructions in its integer registers, which is a bad misinterpretation IMHO. We have no concrete signs of a change to the AltiVec programming model, and I don't really think there needs to be any changes to it... they should just focus on making the current model go faster. This avoids forcing code changes and avoids fragmenting the market based on processor difference. The G3/G4 gap is bad enough -- we don't want a G3/G4/G4v2/G5 mess. That starts feeling like the x86 world! PowerPC has always been better at this than the x86 guys, and I hope that doesn't change. Apple can't afford it.

When the new "leap frog" solution arrives it will make for much faster machines, rather than the constant nickle'n'dime approach of the x86 crowd. People complain about how Apple always does small bumps, but really they typically have fewer significant design changes -- a major architecture change happens, followed by a series of speed bumps until the next big change happens. To me this is better than a constant series of not-so-major-but-annoying architecture changes. It is a bit more frustrating, especially when combined with Apple's tight lipped policy.
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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post #79 of 153
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>Armas, what a character! Obviously he doesn't work for Apple...if he ever did then he's fired by now. He breaks NDA every other sentence in his post.


One thing that was very interesting was his bit about the reason Apple is stuck with PC 133; that they are waiting on Moto's next G4 revision that will have ATA controller, DDR333 controller, and more all on die. Is this something that is likely? Anyone here know for sure?

If so, then not only would it explain Apple's lag in this area, but it would suggest that when Apple finally does "fix" their mobos, they will leapfrog everything on the Wintel side.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, from what I was told the new MOT G4 that has a
166mhz process bus, allowing for 333mhz DDR and we should get up to 1.4ghz if MOT can deliver them. If not, then maybe at least they'll be announced.

Next year, will be the big year for Apple tho.
All Your PCs Are Belong To Trash
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All Your PCs Are Belong To Trash
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post #80 of 153
To have access to such confidential information at Apple ("in house CPU development in Building 2"), this guy would have to be working on the project himself. This would mean that he is an experienced CPU designer. A statement he makes casts doubt on credentials.

[quote] ( all things being equal, double the pipline = double the clock speed, with no increase in intructions/sec )
<hr></blockquote>

No. This is not true, the whole benefit of pipelining is that with the increased clock frequency that is possible (due to reduced propagation delay per stage), you have instructions being completed more frequently (ideally).

If doubling the number of pipeline stages with double the clock frequency gave someone *NO* effective speed benefit; then why pipeline?

Yes, you have your branches and inter-instruction dependency problems. And too much pipelining without decent branch prediction or instruction reordering will harm you; but by and large the original statement is false.

And doubling the number of pipeline stages will not automatically give you a the ability to double the frequency of the clock. Otherwise Motorola could just slap on 7 more "dummy" stages at the end of the 7450's pipeline that basically do nothing but store the instruction in an instruction register for a cycle; and they automatically get to double the clock frequency. This is ludicrous! Clock frequency is determined by the propagation delay in the longest stage of the pipeline. If it takes 5 nanoseconds for an instruction to go through the longest stage; adding 50 1 nanosecond stages will not allow you to increase the clock frequency.

Furthermore, if Apple were doing in house CPU development; it sure has heck wouldn't be done in Infinite Loop 2. It would be done somewhere on Bandley or Valley Green; or off campus entirely.

[ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: PipelineStall ]</p>
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