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Talking about the pictures..

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Please READ this before getting go-happy with the lock button.

[quote]Originally posted by goverat in a locked thread:
<strong>Let's just follow this sequence of events logically:

General:
- Pictures leaked and posted at various places.
- Apple sends threatening letters to those places.
- Those places remove the pictures.

Specific:
- Pictures posted at AI.
- ?
- AI removes the pictures.

I don't know, this is a mystery!

[ 07-24-2002: Message edited by: groverat ]
</strong><hr></blockquote>

So can we talk about the pictures so long as we dont POST them?
post #2 of 25
I fail to see the problem with talking about the pictures, based upon what I've read.

AKA, go ahead, unless we get another letter.
post #3 of 25
Jon, I'm very mad. And it is not entirely at you. Apple FINALLY sent me a letter and my web hosting service also. They changed my website without even asking me. I would have been willing to let this drop but now it is like a smack in the face. So without dancing around pointing fingers, I want to offer an agreement. Let me post a link, to a place which has directions, the directions will lead to anohter site, which will have some photos there. If you will let me do this it will save you the trouble of hunting down all the places that I could seed this on the boards. It is just plain NOT fair that folks who haven't seen them yet don't get to see them. Or a compromise, can I post my email address and say 'for info, email me' that way I am the only one to blame? There has to be a way for us both to be happy, because I don't want to be an ass and spoof up a dozen or so accounts off of my ISPs list and post via a dozen new registered members. You'd be locking threads as fast as I could create them. This would require a lot of work on BOTH of our parts so lets try to work something out. So the question is, how can I allow folks to see these without jeapordizing the board we all love?

I'm open for suggestions too....
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post #4 of 25
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan Brisby:
<strong>snip</strong><hr></blockquote>

Without wishing to be rude, WHY? You have got your letter from Apple Legal, which from some of your posts seems to be what you wanted...

The pictures are still about if people want to see them, I mean other News related Mac sites still have them, and I'm sure if you use irc you could track them down...if people haven't got the know how to find them...too bad.

As someone looking in on the situation, I have to ask why on earth should AI put their ass on the line over this?!

The pictures contain information about unreleased Apple products. This info is most probabaly patented, and there is no doubt their intellectual copyright is being breached...we have no right to see them. Why should Apple then not exercise their rights?!

The pictures would seem to have been obtained through illegal means or breach of contract...they are not for the public to see. Apple are well within their rights.

Or do you want to battle Apples legal team?! Multi million dollar law suits?! They would/will tear you apart, I know, I used to be a lawyer...

I say all this without wishing to be insulting or appear rude...but it really is not an issue to get so worked up about.

Peace,

Marc

[ 07-24-2002: Message edited by: Marcus ]</p>
post #5 of 25
I guess I'm just stupid huh? (Or my male ego is injured at being told 'NO' by the big kids. Don't worry... even now, I have a plan.....
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post #6 of 25
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan Brisby:
<strong>Jon, I'm very mad. And it is not entirely at you. Apple FINALLY sent me a letter and my web hosting service also. They changed my website without even asking me. I would have been willing to let this drop but now it is like a smack in the face. So without dancing around pointing fingers, I want to offer an agreement. Let me post a link, to a place which has directions, the directions will lead to anohter site, which will have some photos there. If you will let me do this it will save you the trouble of hunting down all the places that I could seed this on the boards. It is just plain NOT fair that folks who haven't seen them yet don't get to see them. Or a compromise, can I post my email address and say 'for info, email me' that way I am the only one to blame? There has to be a way for us both to be happy, because I don't want to be an ass and spoof up a dozen or so accounts off of my ISPs list and post via a dozen new registered members. You'd be locking threads as fast as I could create them. This would require a lot of work on BOTH of our parts so lets try to work something out. So the question is, how can I allow folks to see these without jeapordizing the board we all love?

I'm open for suggestions too....</strong><hr></blockquote>


I'm not responsible for your actions on this board. I doubt that the rest of the posters on this board will take kindly to your causing this place to be shut down. I know I won't.

I am not responsible for the actions they may take.

You start spamming, I start banning and calling ISPs. It's that simple.

Is this really worth it to you to possibly take AI down, get sued by Apple (believe me, it WILL happen), etc?

Your call. I await your actions.
post #7 of 25
Jonathon B...

I never said you were stupid, far from it. But, whatever you think they ARE the big boys,and they are acting within their rights...

Just thought I'd mention that it will end in tears...and why should AI be dragged into the situation with you?!

One thing that I have learnt is to pick your battles....and make sure that even if you can't win, you can slip away quietly...

Peace,

Marc

[ 07-24-2002: Message edited by: Marcus ]</p>
post #8 of 25
To make this short and sweet:

Jonathan Brisby: remember WorkerBee?

Don't **** with me. Note the address of Arent Fox' offices. Note my location. I'll go over to their offices tomorrow with your information.

Feel like losing your life over some computer pictures?

Try me.


You'll be sodomized with a chainsaw.

[ 07-24-2002: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</p>
post #9 of 25
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #10 of 25
um....

ouch.
post #11 of 25
Workerbee and anyone who hosts pictures are not exactly the same thing. Workerbee broke a contract. No one here is breaking a contract. That said, Apple is a big big boy to mess around with, and I don't blame anyone here for wanting to steer clear rather than lock horns behind the playground at 3:15. Apple can lick my nads, but if the guys at AI don't want the pics up or linked, then people should not try to create trouble for them.

Get a web host, submitt your URL's to all you rfavorite search engines, and host away. It's a fight you could win, but is it a fight you really want?

[ 07-24-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
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post #12 of 25
I agree with Matsu that I doubt Apple could win an outright lawsuit against AI. AI didn't sign any employment contract with Apple.

Although, now that AI has severed overt ties with MacNN, they lose the coverage of "the press" that would absotutely guarantee Apple couldn't win anything. Now, we're just a message board rather than a news site, and there may be a difference there. Message boards are often held liable for what their posters do, as stupid as that seems.

(Not that I'm suggesting they SHOULD be hosted here. That chainsaw sounds... painful.)
post #13 of 25
Wah wah wah...
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post #14 of 25
As far as them contacting your ISP first it's not anything special to you. They did the same thing to Dan Knight at LowendMac (not a small site) a couple years ago when the iMac went flavored (he had a small thumbnail of the leaked photo). They contacted his ISP and didn't contact him at all. (fortunately the ISP contacted him before changing anything). It goes with the game. It really would be nice if the ISP let you know before they changed something, but hey from their perspective, it's the choice of dealing with a hacked off big company with a legion of lawyers or one ticked off user, which would you choose?

I dunno, it really seems like a lot of effort to go through to make life hard on yourself, last I knew renderings are available various places and what, we all had darn near 24 hours to study and/or download said pictures. If you post these, will anybody really care except for the lawyers? Remember the charge of the light brigade was famousand futile. Going down in a blaze of glory is all well and good, but wouldn't you rather do it for something worthwhile? I dunno if some stale goods are really worth it. And you do have better things to do than go to court, don't you? (trust me, it sucks to have your fate thrown into the hand of some disinterested old fart who is hoping to get you processed in 2 minutes flat so he can make it home for his Matlock reruns)
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post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
Isn't AppleInsider still part of MacNN?
post #16 of 25
[quote]Originally posted by BobtheTomato:
<strong>As far as them contacting your ISP first it's not anything special to you. They did the same thing to Dan Knight at LowendMac (not a small site) a couple years ago when the iMac went flavored (he had a small thumbnail of the leaked photo). They contacted his ISP and didn't contact him at all. (fortunately the ISP contacted him before changing anything). It goes with the game. It really would be nice if the ISP let you know before they changed something, but hey from their perspective, it's the choice of dealing with a hacked off big company with a legion of lawyers or one ticked off user, which would you choose?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, this is due to one of the more outrageous provisions of the DMCA: If a host is noted of an alleged violation, they have to edit or pull the site down immediately. No notice is required - Dan's ISP did him a courtesy. The author of the site is then given 30-odd days to find out what changed or vanished and file a claim of innocence, at which point the affected content can be reposted.

It's a censor's wet dream.

[quote]<strong>I dunno, it really seems like a lot of effort to go through to make life hard on yourself, last I knew renderings are available various places and what, we all had darn near 24 hours to study and/or download said pictures. If you post these, will anybody really care except for the lawyers? Remember the charge of the light brigade was famousand futile. Going down in a blaze of glory is all well and good, but wouldn't you rather do it for something worthwhile? I dunno if some stale goods are really worth it. And you do have better things to do than go to court, don't you? (trust me, it sucks to have your fate thrown into the hand of some disinterested old fart who is hoping to get you processed in 2 minutes flat so he can make it home for his Matlock reruns)</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would be shocked and amazed if Apple/Arent actually filed a suit or pressed charges, although they might just to bury you under a mountain of forms and fees. What they can and will do, especially under the auspices of the DMCA, is use any number of extralegal means to silence people - prior restraint, bullying middlemen such as ISPs or MacNN/AppleInsider, etc. (It sounds like I'm saying the DMCA is extralegal - heh. What I mean is that the "enforcement" mechanism I outlined above doesn't actually require any legal test. All you have to do is notify the host of an alleged violation and you can have someone else's work pulled down.)

As pathetic as this all is, we do have to choose our battles. AppleInsider has chosen not to fight this one. Jonathan B, if you want to fight Apple, knock yourself out. But do not bring us into it. Do not post the leaked images to this site, or link to them. Do not spam the forums. This is a discussion board, not a battleground.

[ 07-25-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
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post #17 of 25
"Actually, this is due to one of the more outrageous provisions of the DMCA: If a host is noted of an alleged violation, they have to edit or pull the site down immediately. No notice is required - Dan's ISP did him a courtesy. The author of the site is then given 30-odd days to find out what changed or vanished and file a claim of innocence, at which point the affected content can be reposted.

It's a censor's wet dream."


Not that it matters to AI's choice - but this is very likely unconstitutional. Its so very clearly a prior restraint, and last I checked, the Copyright clause does not repeal the 1st amendment.

At any rate, I'm fairly certain, although I haven't done much research on this, that Apple's only claim would be copyright infringement, but I am also very certain that this would fail because the purpose of posting the picture is for education/academic discussion.

Regardless, it would be very expensive to fight, unless taken on by a big firm on a pro-bono basis. Such opportunities do exist.
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post #18 of 25
Pictures? What pictures? I didn't see no pictures....
post #19 of 25
no, but you can find the pictures <a href="http://www.mugshots.org/misc/bill-gates.html" target="_blank">here</a>
post #20 of 25
Those are going to be ugliest PowerMacs ever...
they must have the slowest processors ever.
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #21 of 25
Letter or no letter, Apple doesn't have a leg to stand on. We can link to anything we want. Apple can demand all it wants....they are SOL in the end.

Appleinsider isn't hosting the pictures. For God's own sake, we have people asking if they can discuss the PowerMacs. Give me a break. There is absolutely NOTHING Apple can do. This is no different than Apple sending a letter to Verizon Wireless because one of their customers leaked confidential information over their cell phone.

This is ridiculous. I have never heard of the mods actually telling people not to post links to the picures. It is outrageous. This place has totally gone to hell.
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post #22 of 25
Apple has proven they can do plenty to disrupt our community here.

Don't forget worker bee. The biggest Apple leak since Jobs took over decided to post on our bulletin board here. It's in Apple's interest to make sure big leaks don't happen here again.


[edited for details; J]

[ 07-31-2002: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</p>
post #23 of 25
I was out of town for Two Months and when i read about it in USA Today, i was like, appleinsider? I know that place! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #24 of 25
Guess my vacation did some good. Since nobody finished the thought. I suppose I will. Guess you guys are just as easily pissed off as Apple. Man, never seen such a 'high and mighty' group of folks. Exit stage right...

(peaks back from behind curtain)

And if case your wondering. I still have the photos up on several sites. (one of which is my .Mac <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> )

Good ridance.
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post #25 of 25
[quote] And if case your wondering. I still have the photos up on several sites. (one of which is my .Mac ) <hr></blockquote>


<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> indeed!
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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