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War Pictures

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
(Do NOT post links to images like that. It doesn't matter if we're at war, the rules of the board still apply. - groverat)

Shouldn't posting guidline nr. 1 override nr. 5 here? This is, however gruesome, very important material but concerning current politics and future history.

We already have a picture of a dead iraqi soldier here. frankly I'm a bit worried about Americans not seeing this. Its very much a part of this war.

And Pfflam, I think your picture should be moved to a link with a warning too.
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post #2 of 22
If you want to see it go somewhere else, no one is locking your browser onto appleinsider.com.

The above picture is bad, but all it really shows is a pair of hands. That is night & day compared to what pfflam just posted.

There is no excuse to post that kind of material. War or no war. It will not be tolerated.

If you want to make your point using those pictures feel free to make your own website. There is a reason there is such a large audience here, in part because they can come here and not see such horrible pictures.

Pictures are up to moderator discresion, but 99% of the time the membership should be able to tell what is allowed and what is not.
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post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
okidoki, your the mod, mod.

These pictures will probably be in historybooks, so I would advise mature people over 18 to "google" them up. however horrible they are.
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post #4 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
If you want to see it go somewhere else, no one is locking your browser onto appleinsider.com.

The above picture is bad, but all it really shows is a pair of hands. That is night & day compared to what pfflam just posted.

There is no excuse to post that kind of material. War or no war. It will not be tolerated.

If you want to make your point using those pictures feel free to make your own website. There is a reason there is such a large audience here, in part because they can come here and not see such horrible pictures.

Pictures are up to moderator discresion, but 99% of the time the membership should be able to tell what is allowed and what is not.


I gave fair warning in my post that the pictures contained in my link to the Al-Jazeera website were gruesome.

I find it hard to believe that someone would actually be reading these boards if they were illiterate ... and as such, they would have read my warning. I didn't post the pictures on the site ... people were free to visit the site of their own free will via a link.

As for the posting guidelines, I don't find these pictures offensive. Gruesome does not equal offensive. They're facts of war. Live with it.
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"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #5 of 22
must be refering to my picture . . . sorry about that.

I should have just mentioned the gruesomeness with warnings and then linked

anyway, pistures speak volumes and vlumes and the rest of the world is seeing those with captions that read 'Americans did this and do this'
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"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
must be refering to my picture . . . sorry about that.

I should have just mentioned the gruesomeness with warnings and then linked

anyway, pistures speak volumes and vlumes and the rest of the world is seeing those with captions that read 'Americans did this and do this'

Groverat edited the 2nd link I provided in my post ... which was the basis for my response.
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"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
In this case, I posted the picture because it's how the thread is handling photos. I was just being consistent. Unfortunately it means the original page is lost or going to be difficult to find. But it doesn't much matter because there are plenty of other articles about dead civilians.

So you are sticking to your "story" that US forces, personally, killed this Iraqi civilian and left him for dead wrapped in a blankie?

...and FYI, you were not being consistent to this post discussion, at all. The photos in the beginning had some caption and context given with them. Sorry, if that gave others here too much of a warm feeling for you to tolerate. YOUR attempt was just a plain photo, begging for people to draw their own conclusions of what they were seeing. Your motives are clearly suspect, so spare us of the excuses and weazling.
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post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
I gave fair warning in my post that the pictures contained in my link to the Al-Jazeera website were gruesome.

I find it hard to believe that someone would actually be reading these boards if they were illiterate ... and as such, they would have read my warning. I didn't post the pictures on the site ... people were free to visit the site of their own free will via a link.

As for the posting guidelines, I don't find these pictures offensive. Gruesome does not equal offensive. They're facts of war. Live with it.

Those are the rules of the board. Live with it.

If you have a problem with the way the boards are run or how I am performing my duties as a moderator, please feel free to e-mail an administrator. If you are displeased you are also free to not post here.

The rules are clear and easy to follow. Whether or not the material is offensive is not your decision.

If you want to continue this discussion, take it to private messages.
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post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
As for the posting guidelines, I don't find these pictures offensive. Gruesome does not equal offensive. They're facts of war. Live with it.

Of-course they are offensive, they ruin the whole image of american military invisibility. They might even give some people second thoughts about the war...
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Of-course they are offensive, they ruin the whole image of american military invisibility. They might even give some people second thoughts about the war...

CONFIRMED!
AppleInsider's message boards are run by the Secret Service of the United States to further Bush administration propaganda.

Thanks to guerilla reporter New for breaking the story.
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post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
CONFIRMED!
AppleInsider's message boards are run by the Secret Service of the United States to further Bush administration propaganda.

Thanks to guerilla reporter New for breaking the story.

Thanks to grovrat for valuing his what he finds personally (or was that nationally?) offensive above the information value of the hottest current conflict in the world. mind you, this is not about toilet humor or hate-speech. I personally think your misusing the guidelines. But I also stated I accepted your decision.

Bush doesn't need propaganda with you around.
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #12 of 22
Did you see the picture in question?

If not, then perhaps you should withhold comment. If you did and think it's not gruesome or offensive, then that's your own business.

(I'd like to note that I also edited an offensive picture out of an FShip post. But I'm sure you'll ignore that. Hard to hold conspiracy theories being objective!)

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post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Did you see the picture in question?

If not, then perhaps you should withhold comment. If you did and think it's not gruesome or offensive, then that's your own business.

(I'd like to note that I also edited an offensive picture out of an FShip post. But I'm sure you'll ignore that. Hard to hold conspiracy theories being objective!)


Did you read my post? Yes, they are gruesome. They are terrible. Did you see me ask pfflam to make a link with a warning to his picture?

I disagreed with, but accepted your decision . I recommended people to "google" up the pictures because I think anyone who follows this conflict should see them.

So why don't you shut up about your "conspiracy theory" sheit. War is not a computer game. There will be more ugly pictures of dead american soldiers. They will eventually reach your media to.

What would be proper right now is that the mods and admins get together and come up with a consistent policy on how to deal with pictures like this.

Its not like offensive pictures of dead guys haven't been admitted before, in much less relevant ways than these. The best thing to do would be to rewrite the guidelines to cover this specific problem.
Ideally in a way that doesn't disrupt free debate too much. But the boards should not degrade into a speculative autopsy report either.

for my part I'm done with this issue right now. Since you are the mod, after all its your call. But we can continue this debate in the suggestions forum, if necessary. ok?
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #14 of 22
Gruesome pictures are offensive, and because of that the rules are sufficient as written. There can be no exceptions to this because of educational or political value.

As far as that stuff being allowed in the past, it's certainly nothing I've seen. I'll remove gruesome pictures/links that support any side of any political argument, from the aborted fetus to the dead soldier. (And I remember removing links/images of aborted fetuses.)

I see no need for rules to be rewritten, but if you could clarify what you mean in light of that I very much appreciate your intelligent feedback.
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post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
I'm no fan of morbid pictures. But there are issues to this particular case.
As far as I know, these pictures are being broadcasted all around the world, except in the United States.

To be able to bring them up in an international debate, like this is, is very relevant. These are pictures that may influence public opinion. They are no worse than the pictures of gassed kurds paraded in the US media. But they have a far greater emotional impact in the US.

This brings up the issue of free speech because, in this "war of harts" here in the western world, there is a steady flow of pictures describing one part of the war, while other information is held back.

While I understand the need to keep a decent level here at AI, I believe removing the links to these pictures borders on censorship. But, its a though call.
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by New
I'm no fan of morbid pictures. But there are issues to this particular case.

All morbid pictures have a case.
Aborted fetuses for the pro-life.
Dead Iraqi children for the anti-war. (Or pictures of those tortured and killed by Saddam for the pro-war.)
Horrible car accidents for the anti-drunk driving.

It doesn't matter what the cause is. The message doesn't matter, there is no excusing the pictures with even the most worthy of messages.

Quote:
As far as I know, these pictures are being broadcasted all around the world, except in the United States.

Well if that picture pfflam showed is on international TV I'm glad I don't get those stations.

Quote:
To be able to bring them up in an international debate, like this is, is very relevant.

Actually I would say pictures like that hinder intelligent debate. They are nothing more than an emotional grenade used to throw the discussion off-kilter.

The "here I'll shock you with a dead baby picture" is a cowardly tactic, and an intellectually dishonest one.

Quote:
This brings up the issue of free speech because, in this "war of harts" here in the western world, there is a steady flow of pictures describing one part of the war, while other information is held back.

You can post any anti-war image you like, it just can't be gruesome.

Quote:
While I understand the need to keep a decent level here at AI, I believe removing the links to these pictures borders on censorship. But, its a though call.

It doesn't border on censorship, it IS censorship. It is my job as a moderator to censor the images and even words that are on the forum. I am a censor of your contributions on AppleInsider.com's message boards. You do not have freedom of speech here.
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post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
like I said, your the mod, mod.
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #18 of 22
Groverat's position here is untenable. How can we consider war without considering its reality? Is this really in line with AppleInsider policy?

Incidentally, our local newspaper in Ottawa, showed a picture yesterday of two Iraqi soldiers, in their foxhole, with their heads blown off. In this war and in previous wars we have all seen pictures of the reality of battle in standard media sources. I agree that it is unpleasant, but why would AppleOutsider - an intelligent and wide-ranging forum on so many subjects - want to prevent this?
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post #19 of 22
How about that!
A Fireside Chat discussion here in the Suggestions forum.
That's WILD!

Especially since it seems that you folks discussed the rule infraction and the violator(s) agreed that they understood their offenses.

Boy, if I were a mod I'd lock this thread.
Seems like it's been taken care of, personal feelings should go back to Fireside Chat..erm, I mean AppleOutsider.
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post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by drewprops
How about that!
A Fireside Chat discussion here in the Suggestions forum.
That's WILD!

Especially since it seems that you folks discussed the rule infraction and the violator(s) agreed that they understood their offenses.

Boy, if I were a mod I'd lock this thread.
Seems like it's been taken care of, personal feelings should go back to Fireside Chat..erm, I mean AppleOutsider.

I really don't care under which category of thread this discussion takes place Dewprops. But we should discuss Groverat/AppleInsider policy concerning the posting or linking of such pictures.
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post #21 of 22
censorship? yep. AI is a dictatorship. I've not seen any pictures here, I've seen them today in the newspaper, any they aren't that bad.

I think everyone should decide for himself if he wants to see a picture.

so, could we agree that we post 'cruelsome' pictures only with a link and a warning? because sooner or earlier, you're going to see them anyways.

thanks for reading, your humble defiant.
post #22 of 22
If you look at FShip's thread in AO currently you can see an example of what I consider appropriate enough to link to.

Some stuff is appropriate for posting inline.
Some stuff is inappropriate for inline posting but can be linked to.
Some stuff is too much to even link to.

You have unlimited sources of information on the internet, do not rely on AppleInsider for your news if you want the bloody pictures, very simple.
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