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new info from macbidouille : 2.3GHz !

post #1 of 164
Thread Starter 
http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcon...003-03-25#5087

basically they say 3 things :

- WWDC has been postponed mainly for the 970
- At WWDC, the new machines will be announced in 3 configs : 1.4Ghz and 1.8Ghz single processor machines, and one 2.3GHz dual.
- available in 6 to 8 weeks by Apple store.

they had benchmarks, but didn't publish (yet) in fear of having their source traced.

Okay. Pop the champagne and start counting your money. All we need to guess now is the price of these macs, especially the dual one.
post #2 of 164
i think they're just trying to get back at us for the freedom fries with this.
post #3 of 164
But IF this holds true.. Then the current G4 lineup should get a massive price cut... *mmMM*
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post #4 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
But IF this holds true.. Then the current G4 lineup should get a massive price cut... *mmMM*

Apple would practically have to give the current Powermacs away.

I'm assuming that the PPC 970 1.4Ghz system would enter no higher than 1499. Apple would need to blow out the current entry level Powermac for like $1099. Larger cuts may be needed. But who cares...this is the beginning of a new era. Apple can take the hit if they are actually able to hit these speeds.

I still wonder about the Dual 2.3 though. That's alot of heat!
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post #5 of 164
Fricking A. Wow. If true, I can't wait to email Adobe and ask thjem to update their PC Preferred page benchmarked against Dell. I will be happy with a 1.8ghz so anything above that is pure bonus.
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post #6 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Apple would practically have to give the current Powermacs away.

I'm assuming that the PPC 970 1.4Ghz system would enter no higher than 1499. Apple would need to blow out the current entry level Powermac for like $1099. Larger cuts may be needed. But who cares...this is the beginning of a new era. Apple can take the hit if they are actually able to hit these speeds.

I still wonder about the Dual 2.3 though. That's alot of heat!

Woooaw! Get real, they WONT sell 2x1.42Ghz for 1499... 2099 maybe.. No less..

Some people dont follow the news, and still buys these machines!
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post #7 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Woooaw! Get real, they WONT sell 2x1.42Ghz for 1499... 2099 maybe.. No less..

The 1.4GHz configuration is a SINGLE processor system.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #8 of 164
T'hain Esh Kelch

The 1.4Ghz and 1.8Ghz PPC 970s are listed as being Single Processor.
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post #9 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Woooaw! Get real, they WONT sell 2x1.42Ghz for 1499... 2099 maybe.. No less..

Some people dont follow the news, and still buys these machines!

Firstly is has never been mentioned a dual 1.4ghz 970. Secondly, I don't think Apple will rasie their base model up to 2099, that's crack rock talking. Apple admitted they need to address pricing, I'd expect to happy with the new pricing as well as 970s.
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post #10 of 164
-edit- This post belonged in its own topic.
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post #11 of 164
What scares me is the prospect of Dell selling DP Xeon setups, for a competitve price. That would cut Apple's sales in half, PM wize.
post #12 of 164
I don't have anything to add to this rumor other than I have to believe Apple will push hard for any new PowerMac lineup to include at least 2 GHz just for image and prestige. 2.3 would be awesome!

I want mine today!
post #13 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by KidRed
Firstly is has never been mentioned a dual 1.4ghz 970. Secondly, I don't think Apple will rasie their base model up to 2099, that's crack rock talking. Apple admitted they need to address pricing, I'd expect to happy with the new pricing as well as 970s.

Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
T'hain Esh Kelch

The 1.4Ghz and 1.8Ghz PPC 970s are listed as being Single Processor.

Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
The 1.4GHz configuration is a SINGLE processor system.

Man.. Im being slain..

Sorry.. Thought of the current G4, and imagined the top-end model having a price reduction to 1499...
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post #14 of 164
i guess i'd better start saving now eh????
how frigging long have we been waiting for news like this?
sweet!
post #15 of 164
Won't these 970 machines be 64 bit? Isn't THAT going to be a major factor in dispelling the Megahertz Myth?
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post #16 of 164
Thread Starter 
I don't think they'll do price drops : they know that a large part of the pro consumers are delaying purchase of PMac systems until the 970 comes out. They also know that those consumers will buy these systems, even if they are at the same price as the current G4 machines. Hey : that would mean you get double power for the same price !

My guess is that they'll release the single processor machines at the price of the current duals (my estimate : $1800 for the 1.4 and $2200 for the 1.8Ghz) . And the dual 2.3GHz... well, I think it'll be a $3000 machine at least, probably even $3499.

just look at the reactions in these forums. Most of us are willing to shell out $2000 for a new PMac. Companies with delayed purchase are definitely willing to pay even more. Apple would be nuts to release these machines at $1600 or less. Even if we don't like that.
post #17 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by clonenode
Won't these 970 machines be 64 bit? Isn't THAT going to be a major factor in dispelling the Megahertz Myth?

Not exactly, but it will bring with it a nice HYPE(tm) effect.
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post #18 of 164
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NETROMac
Not exactly, but it will bring with it a nice HYPE(tm) effect.

I'm really curious about how Apple will profile this whole 64bit issue. You've got to remember that for most people, 64bit doesn't mean squat. 95% of the users don't need it (yet) and 90% of the users doesn't have the faintest idea what it means.

I wonder if they manage to explain in 5 words to the dummies what 64 bit means for them and why they should buy it. It's not going to be easy, and I would not be surprised if they decide to take the whole 64bit issue off the healines into the techspecs (or at least detail pages) only.

hmm.. now that i look at my post those numbers look silly. To place those percentages in context : did you know that 75% of all consumers constitute 3/4 of the user base ?
post #19 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by little dude
I'm really curious about how Apple will profile this whole 64bit issue. You've got to remember that for most people, 64bit doesn't mean squat. 95% of the users don't need it (yet) and 90% of the users doesn't have the faintest idea what it means.

I wonder if they manage to explain in 5 words to the dummies what 64 bit means for them and why they should buy it. It's not going to be easy, and I would not be surprised if they decide to take the whole 64bit issue off the healines into the techspecs (or at least detail pages) only.

hmm.. now that i look at my post those numbers look silly. To place those percentages in context : did you know that 75% of all consumers constitute 3/4 of the user base ?

Even dummies understand that 64 are more than 32. I don't think you have to explain to them why. It's the same deal with the mhz-myth. People expect the highest mhz machine to perform best.

"PowerMac G5: double the bits"
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post #20 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by KidRed
Fricking A. Wow. If true, I can't wait to email Adobe and ask thjem to update their PC Preferred page benchmarked against Dell. I will be happy with a 1.8ghz so anything above that is pure bonus.

this makes no sense - why the hell is there a lower Mhz difference between the two slower machines with just one cpu and a 500 Mhz difference to the faster one with two cpus? i think 1.4 single, 1.8 dual, 2.x dual or even 1.4 SP, 1.6 DP and 2.0 DP will make much more sense... ???????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
go AAPL, go to $70 !!! © 2004
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go AAPL, go to $70 !!! © 2004
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post #21 of 164
Maybe the big difference in processor speeds will be reflected in the prices (but they will all be duals with the bottom line being a g4+).
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post #22 of 164
Because consumers are so stupid (and I mean that in the nicest way...hi mom! ) and they'll eat anything up if it sounds good, I think Apple should kick Intel in the nuts by hyping the 64bit processor even though it has nothing to do with speed in average consumer apps.

Intel has waved their GHz superiority around in AMD and Apple's face even though their processors aren't necessarly much faster than an AMD chip clocked lower.

Soooo...Apple should wave 64bits in their face and make consumers believe that 64bit processors are ridiculously fast! It wouldn't be a lie...the 970 will be fast, but not because they're 64bits.

But the consumers don't know that. They'll want the latest and greatest thing..."that Intel is 4GHz but OMG, OMG, OMG...that Mac is 64bits!!!!!!!"

Of course...how can you expect consumers to know what the heck a 64bit processor is? It's EXACTLY the same as a consumer trying to understand what MHz or GHz clock speeds are. They don't know squat...all they want to know is bigger numbers are better. And that's all they need to know about 64bit processors.
post #23 of 164
Personally I don't think the suggested lineup makes any sense -- put the chip with the worst yields and highest heat output in the only DP machine? Weird. I would expect at least the mid-range machine to be DP as well, or have 4 machines in the lineup with the 2.3DP being "Ultimate" (and priced accordingly).

I don't buy it... and I think its too early for Apple to have committed to this decision.
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post #24 of 164
Guys, you are dreaming if you think Apple is going to continue to sell the G4 Towers after the 970 towers come out. There also won't be any huge price reduction, maybe $300 or $400 as usual, but not anything earth shattering.

Do you know how much Apple is getting raped on the 1.25 GHz and especially the 1.42 GHz G4s? The prices on these chips are astronomical. To make any type of good margin on the Power Macs, Apple had to cut the SuperDrive out of the mid-range model. Heck, even the eMacs have SuperDrives. Then there is the lack of a built in Airport card or internal bluetooth. These have to be added on the high end machine? Sacrifices had to be made to keep the G4s at these prices (and to keep them as dual processor machines).

Then there are the monitors which have also had a huge price cut recently, so we know Apple isn't making their big money from those either.

Apple is going to release the 970, there is no doubt about that. But things seem hazy now as to what they will actually release. The one thing that is guaranteed, though, is that Apple isn't going to keep the G4 around in any towers.

As for pricing, I think that if they can keep the entry level model down to $1599 or $1699, then they are doing great. I think we'll also see the high end at $2999 (just under the $3000 mark for marketing's sake). It will definitely be an interesting year if Apple can get these machines out the door.
post #25 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
Maybe the big difference in processor speeds will be reflected in the prices (but they will all be duals with the bottom line being a g4+).

well, if the bottemline powermac also has a ppc970 it would be the best sold powermac ever. or they have to squeeze it so hard it will be available only with a 40GB hd and a cd-rom drive. or they have to sell the top of the line only for, say, two months and after that introduce the rest of the line. so the sales will be equalized a little.
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post #26 of 164
hmmmm G64
post #27 of 164
Thread Starter 
I'm a bit scared that the 970 PMac will become the next 17inch powerbook : insufficient supply. Apple has proven before that they're not exactly inventory wizzards...

I know quite a few folks that are planing to buy these macs, includeing a printing office in town whose HW rep told me they'll buy at least 10 of the highend machines when they come out, as they've put all HW purchases on hold since november 2002 and the PMac 867 they're usnig now get kinda long in the teeth :-)

Knowing Apple Belgium, it will be a serious battle to get a 970 : my dad recently ordered an ordinary 15inch flatpanel iMac and had to wait 2 weeks ! Same for the eMac and the iBooks. Only the powerbook seems to be in stock sufficiently. And the PMacs offcourse :-)
post #28 of 164
My guess is that they'd come out with something along the lines of dual 1.0, 1.2 and 1.4 (or dual 1.2, 1.4, 1.6) machines.

Dual 970's on all powermacs would bring the powermacs closer in performace to PC's. In addition, the lower initial 970 speeds would not result in such a large performance delta between the current G4 powermacs and, it would also give Apple some future speed increases on this chip until the next 970 (smaller die size) is ready.

Frankly, I'd be happy as a pig in crap with a dual 970 powermac running at 1Ghz.
post #29 of 164
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by sc_markt
Frankly, I'd be happy as a pig in crap with a dual 970 powermac running at 1Ghz.



ROTFLMAO
post #30 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Personally I don't think the suggested lineup makes any sense -- put the chip with the worst yields and highest heat output in the only DP machine? Weird. I would expect at least the mid-range machine to be DP as well, or have 4 machines in the lineup with the 2.3DP being "Ultimate" (and priced accordingly).

I don't buy it... and I think its too early for Apple to have committed to this decision.


THUD!!!!

Programmer you've brought me back. Reality has hit. I agree with your post. I just don't see Apple taking the most expensive chip(in my estimation) and doubling up on it. Ahh the agony!
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post #31 of 164
I, for one, will not buy a new mac if the suggested lineup is selected, unless the top-end sees some very dramatic price reductions, which I consider to be very wishful thinking, if it's a DP2,3 GHz config. I want a dual, and I don't want to shell out for the top-end box, and I don't think a single 1,8Ghz will make the upgrade from a dual gig MDD (even though I'm aware that the single 1,8Ghz PPC970 will kick my MDD's ass) worth my precious money.
I hope they make at least 2 DP configs, with different-speed processors, like a DP 1,8GHz and 2,3GHz, that'll make me kiss my precious money bye-bye, for the DP 1,8 of course, and I think there are alot of people that think like me (especially those who own the same kind of system, a pretty fast dual). There is too big a jump from a single 1,8, to a dual 2,3, a system somewhere is needed IMO (More than a single anything, but less than the fastest dual). And a DP 1,8 would of course kick everything comparable, but the DP 2,3's ass, including the fastest pentiums and athlons
If they only make one dual, they'll take (another) step back, from two different DP systems to one (and an expensive one too), and I don't see any reason to do that.
I think it's bad enough to have a single GHz G4 in the lowest-end tower, it's not offering any processing power to those with little cash and in the need of a pretty affordable tower (a student like me f.ex.).
I hope they won't repeat that when they finally have a truely kick-ass processor like the 970, when they have such a fat bitch to use in their macs, I think they should use the opportynity to sell and market boxes that have lots of lots of processing power at an affordable price.

I only pray that the 970's will be cheap (enough)
post #32 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by NETROMac
Even dummies understand that 64 are more than 32. I don't think you have to explain to them why. It's the same deal with the mhz-myth. People expect the highest mhz machine to perform best.

"PowerMac G5: double the bits"

Just wait... The Powermac 36.. G4 + 32 bit..
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post #33 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Personally I don't think the suggested lineup makes any sense -- put the chip with the worst yields and highest heat output in the only DP machine? Weird. I would expect at least the mid-range machine to be DP as well, or have 4 machines in the lineup with the 2.3DP being "Ultimate" (and priced accordingly).

I don't buy it... and I think its too early for Apple to have committed to this decision.


Well, what if the "worst yields" (2.3DP) are not as bad as we think. If they can hit 2.5, maybe they are holding bk at 2.3 to have better yields and fewer heat issues. Maybe the industial design follows the Ducati NAKED BIKE design and goes with an tubular frame, exposing the internals for cooling purposes
post #34 of 164
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Just wait... The Powermac 36.. G4 + 32 bit..

err... that would be 970 + 64 then : 1034


but since teh G4 is allready 32, it's only + 32 :

970+32 = 1002

and since it's a dual, that would be x 2

2 x (970+32) = 2004

now THAT's a nice number :-)
post #35 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Personally I don't think the suggested lineup makes any sense -- put the chip with the worst yields and highest heat output in the only DP machine? Weird. I would expect at least the mid-range machine to be DP as well, or have 4 machines in the lineup with the 2.3DP being "Ultimate" (and priced accordingly).

I don't buy it... and I think its too early for Apple to have committed to this decision.

Unless of course the 2.3GHz is initial production using a 0.09µm process.

A little sarcasm to lighten the mood

Quote:
Originally posted by Vvmp
Well, what if the "worst yields" (2.3DP) are not as bad as we think. If they can hit 2.5, maybe they are holding bk at 2.3 to have better yields and fewer heat issues. Maybe the industial design follows the Ducati NAKED BIKE design and goes with an tubular frame, exposing the internals for cooling purposes

Let's see, that would mean an excess of high end cpu's during initial production. Soooooo, I would buy the 1.4GHz model and overclock it for everything it's worth.

A little more sarcasm to lighten the mood a littler more
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post #36 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Personally I don't think the suggested lineup makes any sense -- put the chip with the worst yields and highest heat output in the only DP machine? Weird. I would expect at least the mid-range machine to be DP as well, or have 4 machines in the lineup with the 2.3DP being "Ultimate" (and priced accordingly).

You mean exactly like they did with the Quicksilver 1Ghz - dual at the top only? Of course it's possible they would put the top chip in the dual. The reason this isn't to be trusted isn't because they woudn't do that, it's because 1) MacBeDoobie has no track record, and 2) because a 2.3Ghz machine isn't consistent with what we currently know about the 970.
post #37 of 164
These 970 machines will not be PowerMacs. Besides a new form factor they will have a new name. They will initially be aimed at the pro-user and not for g'ds sake sell for $1499. Any new processor based machine has always had a premium price at first intro. Until full speed manufacturing is achieved (with less rejects) don't look for the processor for at least a year in lower priced machines. Apple is going after the movie and graphics industry with these new "extreme" machines, not the gamer in college. Get real people.
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post #38 of 164
so we should ignore the part were fred anderson, CFO of apple, told analysts that they would me more agressive with pricing? hmm....
post #39 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by MacsRGood4U
These 970 machines will not be PowerMacs. Besides a new form factor they will have a new name. They will initially be aimed at the pro-user and not for g'ds sake sell for $1499. Any new processor based machine has always had a premium price at first intro. Until full speed manufacturing is achieved (with less rejects) don't look for the processor for at least a year in lower priced machines. Apple is going after the movie and graphics industry with these new "extreme" machines, not the gamer in college. Get real people.

I disagree, Apple clearly knows their powermac-line is lacking seriously, and the PPC970 is Apple's salvation. What should they do with their powermacs, if they're not going to use the 970? Stay with the G4 (for another year, and make it 4-5) and let the powermacs and the sales rot? They have to change something, to ignite some sparks again, or they'll BE DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!11 :P
post #40 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by r-0X#Zapchud
I, for one, will not buy a new mac if the suggested lineup is selected, unless the top-end sees some very dramatic price reductions, which I consider to be very wishful thinking, if it's a DP2,3 GHz config. I want a dual, and I don't want to shell out for the top-end box, and I don't think a single 1,8Ghz will make the upgrade from a dual gig MDD (even though I'm aware that the single 1,8Ghz PPC970 will kick my MDD's ass) worth my precious money.
I hope they make at least 2 DP configs, with different-speed processors, like a DP 1,8GHz and 2,3GHz, that'll make me kiss my precious money bye-bye, for the DP 1,8 of course, and I think there are alot of people that think like me (especially those who own the same kind of system, a pretty fast dual). There is too big a jump from a single 1,8, to a dual 2,3, a system somewhere is needed IMO (More than a single anything, but less than the fastest dual). And a DP 1,8 would of course kick everything comparable, but the DP 2,3's ass, including the fastest pentiums and athlons
If they only make one dual, they'll take (another) step back, from two different DP systems to one (and an expensive one too), and I don't see any reason to do that.
I think it's bad enough to have a single GHz G4 in the lowest-end tower, it's not offering any processing power to those with little cash and in the need of a pretty affordable tower (a student like me f.ex.).
I hope they won't repeat that when they finally have a truely kick-ass processor like the 970, when they have such a fat bitch to use in their macs, I think they should use the opportynity to sell and market boxes that have lots of lots of processing power at an affordable price.

I only pray that the 970's will be cheap (enough)

They could be doing it for inventory purposes. If they know that they'll only be able to get 10,000 of the chips this entire year, they may decide that its better to put 8000 of those in 8000 single processor boxes and the rest in 1000 dual processor boxes.

Then when yields increase, they'll offer more duals. At least, that's a thought.
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