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Moved: New PowerMac specs - Page 6

post #201 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by Toofeu:
<strong> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I'm starting to be very tired of apple and its products, I can't believe that the specs are so low...
the intel world is reaching the 3 ghtz barrier and we get a 1.25 processor speed for more than 3000 dollars!!
I'll keep my old system for another 6 months.

But this shouldn't come as a surprise, Apple knows so well how to let us down...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Give me a break. Do you really think that it's Apple's goal to sell slow computers? Anybody with half a brain can see that the big problem is that they're stuck with Motorola because all classic and carbon apps wouldn't run if they switched architectures, and IBM was concentrating their PowerPC efforts on server hardware. Dual 1.25-GHz machines will be close in performance to the high end p4 and AMD machines, especially for those things that use the vector processing units. Plus, the price drop on the current dual-1GHz tells us that the new machines will have a faster system bus or something else that makes them substantially better than the current offerings. Of course, if you want to go buy a cheapo PC, be my guest. Maybe it will come with Windows ME and it will help you build anger about something else other than "slow" powermac specs.

Matthew
post #202 of 301
Interesting that most everyone is assuming that the predictions for the slowest machines are correct. Based on Apple's past performance, that's probably a safe bet, but somehow I'm not entirely convinced. Anyway, we'll know for sure in 12 hours or so.

Hey, lost my "junior" with this post!

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: gfeier ]</p>
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post #203 of 301
Hi all, 1st post ever.
Anyways, if you go to the mother ship's web site and search for powermac, powerbook, and/or emac in the lower search bar and check the "starting at" price you see that the emac now starts at 999, not the apple store's 1099 or that the ti book starts at 2199 <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> and that the powermac now starts at 1699. Unless these pages haven't been updated since the stone ages, however it has the emac so this is unlikely, this would lead me to suggest that the leaked specs are right, at least in terms of price. Plus a couple of surprises
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post #204 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by swimfast67:
<strong>Hi all, 1st post ever.
Anyways, if you go to the mother ship's web site and search for powermac, powerbook, and/or emac in the lower search bar and check the "starting at" price you see that the emac now starts at 999, not the apple store's 1099 or that the ti book starts at 2199 <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> and that the powermac now starts at 1699. Unless these pages haven't been updated since the stone ages, however it has the emac so this is unlikely, this would lead me to suggest that the leaked specs are right, at least in terms of price. Plus a couple of surprises </strong><hr></blockquote>

I'll be damned! You're right! Pics the same though... Hmmm...
this is the way the world ends
this is the way the world ends
this is the way the world ends
not with a bang, but with a wintel machine

-T.S. Eliot
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this is the way the world ends
this is the way the world ends
this is the way the world ends
not with a bang, but with a wintel machine

-T.S. Eliot
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post #205 of 301
Hey guys, I was seriously thinking of getting a new 17" imac then i see this dual 867 which actually has expansion slots, sure it doesnt have a nifty 17" widescreen display but apple will prolly make a 17" widescreen studio display.

Then i hear this 'Yikes!' stuff. Sorry I wasn't around for this, so could someone please explain it?
post #206 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by Ptrash:
<strong>The specs may not be that bad. In fact the low end machine is a decent deal. But I think the reason people are venting at Apple is because they're tired of being let down. Of course in a way we're responsible for the high expectations, but if we didn't have those expectations, where would we be? Most peple on this board are Mac fanatics. A lot are in school, and feeling constantly beseiged by PC users. Anyone working in corporate America is in a similar situation. So there's this continual hope that, come the next Apple product upgrade, we're finally gonna get a computer that holds up hardware-wise (or moreover, spec-wise) to PCs. Only what we get is more dissapointment-once again meager increases in speed and technology-and prices that are way out of line (especially when considering that the new OS is not quite as simple to use as the old one, so you don't have that low IT support cost holding down overall costs like you used to).

How many times has this happened over the last 2-3 years? And then we have the Motorola situation; now the future of the platform is really up in the air. If Apple was a little more forthcoming, it might ease people's anxieties a bit. But, instead, Apple acts as if everything is fine, and that the only problem is the tanking economy. If anything, people on these boards are too passionate (about their Macs) and too loyal to Apple; the anger comes from feeling that the company take their support for granted.</strong><hr></blockquote>

People are venting becouse:

a) specs for lowered expectations again. Apple (Motorolla) is not delivering what they need to to make the swithch campaign work, or their move on the high end video market. These two moves helped fuel higher expectations.

b) the low end PowerMac, based on this rumour, is going up in price. A few years ago it was at $1499 if I recall, and Apple needs a computer that does not come with a monitor in a lower price range to attract consumers that do not have the money for a top end compter, but will not buy an all-in-one.

As a stock holder, I want Apple to make money. I dont have a problem with them coming out with higher end machines. But I want Jobs to come through with his goal to double market shares, and to do this he cannot ignore a whole product catagory that they can easily market to, which they are currently doing. Also to push into corperate and Video markets they need to get a solution to the dismal performance gains that Motorolla has been delivering.

As a consumer, I see no reason to replace my 450 cube for the forseable future. I have a dual gig at work and it is nice, but for home the 450 works fine. Its not even neccesarely the speed that is the problem, but the price/performance ratio and antiquated motherboard. Apple used to inovate, and stay near the high end in these areas. Lately they have sat still as the rest of the industry moved ahead. Now Apple needs a lot of catching up to do.

Steve, if you are listening, you better work harder for my money.
post #207 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by iMud:
<strong>Hey guys, I was seriously thinking of getting a new 17" imac then i see this dual 867 which actually has expansion slots, sure it doesnt have a nifty 17" widescreen display but apple will prolly make a 17" widescreen studio display.

Then i hear this 'Yikes!' stuff. Sorry I wasn't around for this, so could someone please explain it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

When Apple first introduced the G4 they had a glut of G3 mainboards from the B&W G3. Legend has it that when SJ heard how many extra G# MainBoards they had he said "yikes!"

So... In order to clear out the inventory, the first generation of the G4s used the same MLB as the G3s. The main board was henceforth called the "yikes" board. Not until after they cleared out this inventory did they introduce the new MLB, sawtooth, which had AGP and the new CPU connector.
this is the way the world ends
this is the way the world ends
this is the way the world ends
not with a bang, but with a wintel machine

-T.S. Eliot
Reply
this is the way the world ends
this is the way the world ends
this is the way the world ends
not with a bang, but with a wintel machine

-T.S. Eliot
Reply
post #208 of 301
You think we can see a EST midnight update of the site?
post #209 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by swimfast67:
<strong>Hi all, 1st post ever.
Anyways, if you go to the mother ship's web site and search for powermac, powerbook, and/or emac in the lower search bar and check the "starting at" price you see that the emac now starts at 999, not the apple store's 1099 or that the ti book starts at 2199 <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> and that the powermac now starts at 1699. Unless these pages haven't been updated since the stone ages, however it has the emac so this is unlikely, this would lead me to suggest that the leaked specs are right, at least in terms of price. Plus a couple of surprises </strong><hr></blockquote>

I suspect they haven't been updated in a while. The 550 MHz TiBook was $2199. The low-end 733 QuickSilver was $1699. It seems like the little search bar thingy is updated when new products are announced and forgotten about. The emac was introduced at $999 (institutional pricing.)
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post #210 of 301
"Interesting that most everyone is assuming that the predictions for the slowest machines are correct"

What bothers me most about the low end is how crippled it is.It is on a 133 bus,the top end is clearly a 166.The middle 1 ghrz could go either way.That sucks! Will it have no L3 cache as well? Think about it,if Apple can ship a 1.25 on a 166 bus then why not give us a 1 ghrz low end on a 166 bus and a middle system at 1166,both single processor.The faster single processor would look better and give better all around performance to the average user than the slower duel system.Only the top end should be duel.But of course Apple doesnt want you to buy the low end.Why not,we are all made of money.Computers for the rich of us! And I have a hard time believing that 1.25 is the fastest the G4 can go.People have been overclocking the 1 gig processors to 1.2 since it came out 6 months ago.I believe motorola has faster G4's.Apple is playing a suck the faithful dry game by shipping slower(cheaper) processors and keeping their profit margins sky high.This kind of lineup makes me dred there will be no imac/emac upgrade anytime (and yes a real upgrade includes faster processors,not slow burning combo drives).
post #211 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>

I suspect they haven't been updated in a while. The 550 MHz TiBook was $2199. The low-end 733 QuickSilver was $1699. It seems like the little search bar thingy is updated when new products are announced and forgotten about. The emac was introduced at $999 (institutional pricing.)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bingo. If you look at the file name of the QS image, you'll see the date was 7/18/01.
post #212 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>

I suspect they haven't been updated in a while. The 550 MHz TiBook was $2199. The low-end 733 QuickSilver was $1699. It seems like the little search bar thingy is updated when new products are announced and forgotten about. The emac was introduced at $999 (institutional pricing.)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Never mind then... I was hoping to be the next big winner but I guess it was not to be <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" /> oh well, try again tomorrow

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: swimfast67 ]</p>
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post #213 of 301
Thanks about the Yikes info.

So what do you think they will name the new case?
post #214 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by marcsiry:
<strong>At the rate I'm billing that job, a day's work is at least $600. That's a third of the way to the difference between my current machine and the new topline Mac.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So basically your job pays for your computer, it it not an expense outside of work. The business is yours yes, but thats essentiually it... you're work pays for your setup. Well, not all of use get free computers from work Alot of people who use macs do other things than work in photoshop <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
post #215 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by iMud:
<strong>Hey guys, I was seriously thinking of getting a new 17" imac then i see this dual 867 which actually has expansion slots, sure it doesnt have a nifty 17" widescreen display but apple will prolly make a 17" widescreen studio display.

Then i hear this 'Yikes!' stuff. Sorry I wasn't around for this, so could someone please explain it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hope the low end has a superdrive
damn very underwhelming specs
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post #216 of 301
I think we need a chat with the Steve...
post #217 of 301
I image that with the 867, 1000 & 1250 speeds for the ddr Pmac the iMac will move up to a 133 bus with 800mhz (133 x 6) and 933mhz (133 x 7) and be bumped at Paris in mid September...

or maybe 867 (6.5) & 1000 (7.5) but I fear they will not do that
post #218 of 301
Hrm, this is odd...The Applestore now lists all models' estimated ship times as "1-2 days". Seems like they may be ready to ship sooner than we thought(I don't even want to mention the alternative).

-Dual 867

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: Dual 867 ]</p>
post #219 of 301
Glad to see the Flames die down a bit between the optimists and the pessimists (to make easy generalizations for some folks).

Here's something I thought might be a good reminder for everyone.
----------------------
For those who feel determined to "flame" others who have higher levels of acceptable performance. Please keep in mind ... (related to a post I made long ago more finance related instead of "Yoda Related")

Complacency allows the Emperor to rule without a fight. Much Fear it creates; Fear leads to Pain; Pain leads to Suffering; Suffering leads to ... The Dark Side. Slow and painful it will be. It's better to seek and promote advancement through diligence and perserverance. Tenacious we must be in our our endevours to remind Apple of our "desired" path. Only then will we see advancement in our numbers; as few others see the true reality before them.

And gar, not all will waste the "power to be". Beware of generalizations.
----------------------
The bottom line is, keep your hopes/dreams alive ... and don't knock other peoples hopes or disappointments because you're satisfied with "less" and they aren't. That's why GM makes Chevrolet and Cadillac.

Me, I'm disappointed, but it also makes me optimistic, because if the rumor is true ... then we will be seeing the end of Motorola as the ProLine's CPU manufacturer and the beginning for a new manufacturer for the ProLine (this update is a stop-gap, yikes!). Moto will be "demoted" to the consumer line.

FWIW
post #220 of 301
The homepage (apple.com) isn't loading for me anymore.
post #221 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by keston:
<strong>

So basically your job pays for your computer, it it not an expense outside of work. The business is yours yes, but thats essentiually it... you're work pays for your setup. Well, not all of use get free computers from work Alot of people who use macs do other things than work in photoshop <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Nice logic. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Let me explain something to you. Since he owns the business, the money to buy his PowerMac have to come from his own pocket., right? And since he HAS to work to make the money, then he's not using his computer for free, now is he? And graphic designers use more than just Photoshop to do their work. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: Analogue bubblebath ]</p>
post #222 of 301
[quote]
Originally posted by O and A:

Hope the low end has a superdrive
damn very underwhelming specs

<hr></blockquote>

Hmm, didnt think about that... If you take the current low-end powermac (800 mghz which comes with a cd-rw default) and up it to the same hardware as the imac: 80 gig HD, superdrive, GeForce4 MX video, and apple pro speakers, it comes out 59 dollars more than the 17" imac. And the new low-end price will be 100 more... What I need is a sugar-momma!
post #223 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by Animaniac:
<strong>The homepage (apple.com) isn't loading for me anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Works fine. AppleStore is the same.
11:53PM Eastern.
post #224 of 301
please delete this post

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: Analogue bubblebath ]</p>
post #225 of 301
It's great to see a level head there, yoda.

However, it doesn't change the fact that nobody knows how these computers actually perform, so there is no basis for all of the stupid ****ing angry faces and shaking head faces people are using. It's really irritating to see that shit every time Apple announces new hardware, especially when people type 3 in a row.

It's obvious that these people don't use their Macs for anything more complex than web surfing and Tetris based on the intelligence lacking in their postings, but they like to bitch and complain because their computers have smaller numbers than their Intel-loving friends.

Well, next time your Intel-Butt-Raiding friends throw numbers at you, just say 128-bit data path or 20 gigaflops and watch their eyes glaze over when they realize they have no ****ing clue what you are saying and spew out another witty comeback like, "huh, huh, 3 Ghz Pentium 4 r00lz!"
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post #226 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by Bioflavonoid:
<strong>guys, it looks like there won't be a new design tomorrow afterall, but I could be wrong. I found this on apple's site. See, the price was bumped up 100 dollars. If you look at the current apple store, they say starting at 1599 as it has always been. Still keep your hopes up, I may be wrong.

[ 08-12-2002: Message edited by: Bioflavonoid ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

From another thread... I saw this same graphic while searching <a href="http://www.mammals.org" target="_blank">www.mammals.org</a> for the rterm PowerMac. I guess the point is that it shows the old case with the new pricing

SO no DynaCool technology? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

MSKR
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post #227 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by iMud:
<strong>Thanks about the Yikes info.

So what do you think they will name the new case?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The 'Oh God I hope an IBM 8CPU Power7 comes real soon now'.

Or maybe the 'Buhbye Motorola'

Apple's 'official' names have gotten very boring. This would be the 'Aug 2002 PowerMac XXXMHz' or something similar.

It was more interesting with code names like 'Cold Fusion' or 'Tsunami'.
post #228 of 301
"Throbbin' Meat Slicer" would be a good name for a future PowerMac.
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post #229 of 301
well said rogue27.
post #230 of 301
Ok, here is something to do if your bored, the pdf for the powermac is <a href="http://a272.g.akamai.net/7/272/2041/e1af30a8eaf5ae/www.apple.com/r/store/infoblock/pdf/PowerMacG4DS_2002.pdf" target="_blank">http://a272.g.akamai.net/7/272/2041/e1af30a8eaf5ae/www.apple.com/r/store/infoblock/pdf/PowerMacG4DS_2002.pdf</a> Lets see if we can figure out the new name and find the pdf for the new powermacs thats prolly sitting there unlinked...
post #231 of 301
Ok, I just ordered a Dual 1GHz machine on Aug 02. It still hasn't shipped yet.
I think I'm gonna cancel my order...
post #232 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by iMud:
<strong>Ok, here is something to do if your bored, the pdf for the powermac is <a href="http://a272.g.akamai.net/7/272/2041/e1af30a8eaf5ae/www.apple.com/r/store/infoblock/pdf/PowerMacG4DS_2002.pdf" target="_blank">http://a272.g.akamai.net/7/272/2041/e1af30a8eaf5ae/www.apple.com/r/store/infoblock/pdf/PowerMacG4DS_2002.pdf</a> Lets see if we can figure out the new name and find the pdf for the new powermacs thats prolly sitting there unlinked...</strong><hr></blockquote>


In all likelyhood it's on a different Akamai server.
post #233 of 301
Owwww , I can see it now.

"So, you've just spent $3300 for a 1.2 Ghz Apple computer in 2002 ... here's your shame-bag, we'll let you cut your own holes for your eyes ... and if you ever want to switch back, we'll be right here waiting for you ...

... and you'll get to take off the bag!

Sincerely
Michael Dell,
Bill Gates
Blah blah blah"

Man this is gonna hurt, I just hope this transition phase isn't long.
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post #234 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by rogue27:
<strong>"Throbbin' Meat Slicer" would be a good name for a future PowerMac.</strong><hr></blockquote>

BWAAHAHAHAHA!

*gasp*

*wipes tear*
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post #235 of 301
The Order Status page at the Apple store isn't loading...I want to see if my dang computer has shipped yet.
post #236 of 301
Everyone and there dog is checing the site for any news of the new powermacs, keep trying you will get through
post #237 of 301
Wow, six pages of comments and nobody's looked at this upgrade in terms of Moore's Law yet. If you shrink Moore's Law down to the 6 month scale the increase is, well, 25%.

1.0GHz -&gt; 1.25GHz = about 15-20% improvement (ish)
133 FSB -&gt; 166 FSB = about 20-25% improvement
DDR -&gt; 5-10% improvement

Add all that together and you get 45 - 65 % increase in system performance, roughly double Moore's Law. In short, I'd be impressed if this (the dual 1.2 rumour) is what we see tomorrow. The 1.6 rumour is right out.

Edit: Granted, Moore's Law is variously interpreted to mean a) the # of transistors on a chip b) the processor clock cycle or c) overall system performance. The most commonly used, however, is c.

Edit: Me spel gud

[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: JustAGuy ]</p>
post #238 of 301
Why is Apple raising prices? You see, when you "improve" a computer model, it does not mean you "improve" the price.

Do you think they'll bundle the new towers with a fire extinguisher if we get that case that was possted?
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post #239 of 301
[quote]Originally posted by JustAGuy:
<strong>Wow, six pages of comments and nobody's looked at this upgrade in terms of Moore's Law yet. If you shrink Moore's Law down to the 6 month scale the increase is, well, 25%.

1.0GHz -&gt; 1.25GHz = about 15-20% improvement (ish)
133 FSB -&gt; 166 FSB = about 20-25% improvement
DDR -&gt; 5-10% improvement

Add all that together and you get 45 - 65 % increase in system performance, roughly double Moore's Law. In short, I'd be impressed if this (the dual 1.2 rumour) is what we see tomorrow. The 1.6 rumour is right out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ya, but doesn't moore's law also say that processor speed would double every 18 months? I could be wrong, I don't really know much about the law, I just heard that.
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post #240 of 301
Dual 1ghz price would actually be 500 dollars lower than it is now for the new model.
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