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Dancing in the streets? - Page 2

post #41 of 275
Maybe they are just happy the war is gonna be over.

Most Iraqis just wan the war to be over so that they can carry on with their lives.
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post #42 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by der Kopf
Try purple.


Oh please---even if U.S.&U.K. are totally wrong about WMD and terrorism we have done a GREAT thing for the Iraqi people. Just admit it. It's a win/win situation and Bush/Blair are taking this goodwill straight to the bank.
post #43 of 275
Quote:
This freedom is brought to you by US Marine, US Army, US Navy, US Air Force and British Special Forces. Underwritten by US and British tax payers.

Don't forget Kangarooistan. Much dap for the mates in the 011-61 even if they've got greenpeace dangling from they ships.
Quote:
50 hothead dissidents tear down a dumb statue.

With all due respect, your braino needs some drano because it appears to be clogged with bias. To suggest that this is just hothead dissidents with the larger implication being that the masses do not who resent Saddam is booty wack to an extreme. You don't have to agree or condone the military action by acknowledging that Saddam is loathed by the overwhelming majority of Iraqis. Even all of the Iraqis who have said they don't like the Anglo invasion always qualify their condemnation of the war with the equivocation that they do not like the regime at all. This isn't hothead dissidents. They mostly hate Saddam and it is ridiculous that you cannot admit as much.
post #44 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
With all due respect, your braino needs some drano because it appears to be clogged with bias. To suggest that this is just hothead dissidents with the larger implication being that the masses do not who resent Saddam is booty wack to an extreme. You don't have to agree or condone the military action by acknowledging that Saddam is loathed by the overwhelming majority of Iraqis. Even all of the Iraqis who have said they don't like the Anglo invasion always qualify their condemnation of the war with the equivocation that they do not like the regime at all. This isn't hothead dissidents. They mostly hate Saddam and it is ridiculous that you cannot admit as much.

Okay then.

50 coldhead representatives of the Iraqi league of Saddam-haters. How's that for a tube draining all my brains till it gets to the point where I ...
post #45 of 275
...become rational.
post #46 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
BBC report:

"Coalition forces vandalize statue of former Iraqi administration President. Women, Children, and Journalists hardest hit."

Damn. I thought we could find something we could all be happy about but some numbnuts go and ruin it.

Just because the BBC attempted objectivity and you didn't see:

"Heroic marines bravely step by the bodies of Iraqi death squad members disguised as children accidentaly killed by their terrorist brethren."
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post #47 of 275
I think this is great great news and has me rethinking everything . . . . I'll admit it.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #48 of 275
It IS great news.

The war is still wrong.
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post #49 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by der Kopf
Okay then.

50 coldhead representatives of the Iraqi league of Saddam-haters. How's that for a tube draining all my brains till it gets to the point where I ...

be quiet and go eat some waffles!
post #50 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by The General
be quiet and go eat some waffles!

(If I may Kopf?)

Be quiet and go eat some burgers!
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post #51 of 275
Thread Starter 
it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few weeks. right now it sounds like the Iraqi's are very happy to have us there.

when i heard the reports on the radio about people saying "we love Bush", waving to the US forces, dancing etc. i had to wonder if it wasn't just the same things we'd seen before only this time with Americans in mind.

i'd stipulated (along with many others) that Iraqi's weren't celebrating before because they were scared of retribution. i was wondering if they were just celebrating now because they were afraid of the American forces there, so wanted to appear non threatening.

however, after seeing video footage of the celebrations, i no longer doubt that these people are estatic to have the coalition forces in their city, and they wanted Saddam gone.

so, for all the folks with the "no war for oil" and "let the Iraqi's overthrow their own leaders" does this change your opinion?
post #52 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
(If I may Kopf?)

Be quiet and go eat some burgers!

Already did! so there!
post #53 of 275
proud resident of a failed state
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post #54 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes

so, for all the folks with the "no war for oil" and "let the Iraqi's overthrow their own leaders" does this change your opinion?

No.

Let's count up the civilian bodies before we start celebrating. If the 30,000+ military casualties is a correct number, let's remember how many thousands of them were forced conscripts that died because they either fought and died or didn't fight and died. Let's remember that for ten years the U.S. and U.K. silently pushed for this war by blocking aid.

Let's find out if Saddam actually had the WMD, specifically nuclear capability, that this war was so contingent on finding.
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post #55 of 275
Quote:
"I'm 49, but I never lived a single day," said Yusuf Abed Kazim, a Baghdad imam who pounded the statue's pedestal with a sledgehammer. "Only now will I start living. That Saddam Hussein is a murderer and a criminal."
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #56 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by The General
be quiet and go eat some waffles!

In general, I tend to piss on Generals.

No that's harsh. I just wish to say that I hate all things military with many (not all) fibres of my body.

And, I'm baffled by the argumentative force of your post. Very insightful and intelligent. You are truly a military man, General.
post #57 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
I think this is great great news and has me rethinking everything . . . . I'll admit it.

That's very impressive, pfflam. I salute your simple willingness to maybe set aside the bias and feelings you might harbor toward this administration and this war (which others here are clinging to even HARDER, it seems...) to admit that.

Good for you.

I know it doesn't mean everything, but you're the first I've seen here actually step back and go "hmmm, maybe...".
post #58 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Let's find out if Saddam actually had the WMD, specifically nuclear capability, that this war was so contingent on finding.

Any chance we could squeeze in a small celebration of the liberation of an oppressed, terrorized nation in there too?

\

Now is when the funny stuff will officially begin: the goalposts will be picked up and moved 20 yards back. The armchair analyzing about how we "didn't do this" and "didn't do that" will begin (mostly by people who never wore the uniform and don't know anything about anything), about how the cheering Iraqis are a "put on" and so forth, etc.

Should be a hoot.

The chance of anyone actually admitting they were wrong and misjudged everything is practically zero, so I shall have to settle for mocking and dinging their post-war CYA and "yeah, but..." tactics.

post #59 of 275
looking at the replays again......that wasn't a statue of saddam, it was one of his doubles.......
post #60 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates

The chance of anyone actually admitting they were wrong and misjudged everything is practically zero, so I shall have to settle for mocking and dinging their post-war CYA and "yeah, but..." tactics.


Well, that ain't me.

I always said that this war would be a cakewalk. I always said that the Iraqi people would welcome our brave troops with open arms. "It'll be over by April", I said, and I was almost right.

I am proud of Tony 'The Wolf' Blair for the stand he took. Ich bin ein Baghdader.
post #61 of 275
The war seems to be almost finished in Iraq and at least in Baghdad, but is not finished in AI.

After 30 years of dictatorship, it's not difficult to understand that Iraq people are happy to be liberated from Saddam. I don't know if Iraq people are happy to see US troops, but it's not that difficult to understand that they can be happy to be free.

Even if i was against this war,( for various reasons), i am happy that Saddam do not lead Iraq anymore. And if Iraq people are happy of that, i am happy for them.
post #62 of 275
See, that's all it takes. Simply be happy for people who can now enjoy some of the freedoms and joys we all take for granted.

Doesn't mean you have to register as a Republican, listen to Rush, watch FOX News, subscribe to National Review.

It just means you can go "hey, good for those people...this WAS a good thing".

post #63 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Now is when the funny stuff will officially begin: the goalposts will be picked up and moved 20 yards back. The armchair analyzing about how we "didn't do this" and "didn't do that" will begin.

I was against this war, and still am. Why? Because, as in any war, too many people get killed. Now, show me, how have today's events changed that? Are all the people that DID get killed instantly Lazarussed back into existence? How about the other top-level argument that diplomacy didn't get to run its full course? Do today's event's deliver any proof of the contrary? I don't, personally, belief so.

I stand by what I said when I said this war was unnecessary and cruel.
Anybody could've told you that the US would get what it wanted if it only got to flex its muscles. I don't think anybody's surprised, or am I wrong? Still, the fact that this horrid war may have brought about some niceness for the Iraqis doesn't say anything about its unlawfullness.
post #64 of 275
... and can anyone PLEASE tell me a case of terror being extinguished by violence?
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post #65 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
looking at the replays again......that wasn't a statue of saddam, it was one of his doubles.......

That is very funny!!!!!!


LOL
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #66 of 275
Wow. Looks what happens while you help a friend with their winblow at a place without radio.

First of all: Everybody expected this to be over quick (I admit that a week ago I was starting to question it but...). It has never been the victory over Saddam anyone questioned.

What was questioned was on one side the direct costs of the war. How many people were to die in it. And on the other hand: What will this mean for the future of the middle east and the world as a whole.

Its very symbolic what happened today. First the Iraqis try to tumble Saddam but are unsuccesful. Then the US military help them and it succeds. Then an american soldier place an american flag which is quickly replaced by an iraqi. Can´t help wondering how the last thing will happen in real life.

Hmm. The Americans win over iraq and start the occupation on the 9th of april. Isn´t that quite a coincidence New and Harald?
post #67 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
I think this is great great news and has me rethinking everything . . . . I'll admit it.

I admire your honesty with this. You are more than entitled to re-adjust your view in light of the nature of the outcome. If it would have been against the will of the Iraqi people as a whole being against the war would be a just stance to hold. Seeing the Iraqi people rejoice however makes this story become clear to the world.

I am so very happy for the Iraqi people.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #68 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
... and can anyone PLEASE tell me a case of terror being extinguished by violence?

Well. . . . the Iraqis will no longer be terrorized by SH.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #69 of 275
Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Winnign the war was always going to happen. The Iraqi people were certain to be glad to get rid of Saddam. We all knew that, except for the playa haters. Now comes the tricky part, winning the peace and the diplomacy. I think this can be done, I'm just not convinced that it can be done by the Shrubbery Klan. We shall see. They don't have to love us but if they don't blow up too many of our soldiers over the next two years and if there is a lasting peace with neighbors and we don't **** up the humanitarian situation too much in the next month and if Iraq can have a reasonably representative govt then it will be all good range rover all wood.
post #70 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Winnign the war was always going to happen. The Iraqi people were certain to be glad to get rid of Saddam. We all knew that, except for the playa haters. Now comes the tricky part, winning the peace and the diplomacy. I think this can be done, I'm just not convinced that it can be done by the Shrubbery Klan. We shall see. They don't have to love us but if they don't blow up too many of our soldiers over the next two years and if there is a lasting peace with neighbors and we don't **** up the humanitarian situation too much in the next month and if Iraq can have a reasonably representative govt then it will be all good range rover all wood.

I wish for once people would shut up already with the Bush insults. I think it is sad liberals the world over can only resort to spitful rhetoric as a political tool. GROW UP!

"Shrubbery Klan"

Name calling... I think the democrats have already lost the next election.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #71 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by der Kopf
In general, I tend to piss on Generals.

No that's harsh. I just wish to say that I hate all things military with many (not all) fibres of my body.

And, I'm baffled by the argumentative force of your post. Very insightful and intelligent. You are truly a military man, General.

ahh, the truth comes out, he hates all things military, that must mean you hate anyone in the military, even those who would defend you.. I wonder, would you hate the military if your homeland was the dominant power?
post #72 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by der Kopf
I was against this war, and still am. Why? Because, as in any war, too many people get killed. Now, show me, how have today's events changed that? Are all the people that DID get killed instantly Lazarussed back into existence? How about the other top-level argument that diplomacy didn't get to run its full course? Do today's event's deliver any proof of the contrary? I don't, personally, belief so.

I stand by what I said when I said this war was unnecessary and cruel.
Anybody could've told you that the US would get what it wanted if it only got to flex its muscles. I don't think anybody's surprised, or am I wrong? Still, the fact that this horrid war may have brought about some niceness for the Iraqis doesn't say anything about its unlawfullness.

Many more people would have died if we had not acted.

In Eastern philosophy "doing the least harm" is the best route. I think this applies here.
post #73 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
Many more people would have died if we had not acted.

In Eastern philosophy "doing the least harm" is the best route. I think this applies here.

Which "Eastern philosophy" do you mean?

Are you trying to find a Buddhist rationale for the military invasion of Iraq?

Good God.
post #74 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I wish for once people would shut up already with the Bush insults. I think it is sad liberals the world over can only resort to spitful rhetoric as a political tool. GROW UP!

"Shrubbery Klan"

Name calling... I think the democrats have already lost the next election.

Fellowship

Why do I get the feeling that you wouldn't object if someone called Bill Clinton (oh, I don't know) Swill Clit-on?

The Shrubbery Klan. That's good.

Really, though, Fellowship, it is kinda hard to defend an inarticulate warmongering intellectual midget like George W. Bush. Come on.
post #75 of 275
Of course there's going to be some jubilation....and it will be very temporary. People in situations of extreme stress do live in the present until the ugly reality of the situation starts to filter through.

It's already starting to look like a, "out of the frying pan and into the fire" situation in some places, where "liberation" is absolutely not the name of the game. This article comes from the bastion of the British establishment, the Financial Times. They don't come much more from the Right than that....(in Europe that is of course).
.
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentSe...=1012571727088
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post #76 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Well. . . . the Iraqis will no longer be terrorized by SH.

Just as the Afghanis are no longer terrorized by the Taliban?

Why don't you go look up some info on the International Red Cross in Afghanistan these days to find out how wrong you are.
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post #77 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
This article comes from the bastion of the British establishment, the Financial Times.

Oh sammi jo, we know you made a fake site that looks like the Financial Times and made this story up....

"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #78 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Which "Eastern philosophy" do you mean?

Are you trying to find a Buddhist rationale for the military invasion of Iraq?

Good God.

Let me try again, this time in English:

Do the math on the body count---with Saddam vs. getting rid of Saddam.....

Better?


But then if "All is permitted-nothing forbidden" why should we care?
post #79 of 275
Quote:
I wish for once people would shut up already with the Bush insults. I think it is sad liberals the world over can only resort to spitful rhetoric as a political tool. GROW UP!

"Shrubbery Klan"

Name calling... I think the democrats have already lost the next election.

Fellowship

I use odd terms for my own bemusement. I already called Australia Kangarooistan in this thread. It's hardly a rhetorical tool as I use it for entities about which I am neutral or supportive. My profile refers to my country as the frickin Unilateral States. I'm ****ing derisive and sarcastic about all sorts of shtuff. I'm a bastard like that.

Anyway, you're a moron. Jesus loves everyone but you Fellowship.
post #80 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
Let me try again, this time in English:

Do the math on the body count---with Saddam vs. getting rid of Saddam.....

Better?


But then if "All is permitted-nothing forbidden" why should we care?

Oh. I see now. Thank-you.
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