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Collection of *confirmed* Panther info.

post #1 of 228
Thread Starter 
#1 "Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference 2003 will be the biggest ever. With extensive coverage of the next version of Mac OS X, codenamed "Panther" as well as a preview release given to each attendee WWDC is a don't miss opportunity." (link)

So far all we know is when the preview will be out....which is June 23. Short list eh? As more is revealed, we can tag it to this thread.

So does anybody have decent info about minimum specs to run Panther, length of time for the Preview Release[will is be 3 months from preview till release like with Jaguar?], or the key feature list? (try to have a link to support your thoughts) Also, are we positive it will be 10.3 and not 10.5?
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post #2 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
#1 "Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference 2003 will be the biggest ever. With extensive coverage of the next version of Mac OS X, codenamed "Panther" ? as well as a preview release given to each attendee ? WWDC is a don't miss opportunity." (link)

So far all we know is when the preview will be out.... Short list eh? As more is revealed, we can tag it to this thread.

So does anybody have decent info about minimum specs to run Panther, length of time for the Preview Release, or the key feature list? (try to have a link to support your thoughts)

**CONFIRMED** Nobody knows anything confirmed about Panther yet.
post #3 of 228
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
**CONFIRMED** Nobody knows anything confirmed about Panther yet.

I wouldn't go that far.

We have several sources claiming a new 'journaled' file system.

We also have talks of iPhoto Pro, Appleworks 7 (coming out in about a year), a cocoa Finder, brushed metal everywhere, revamped dock, Mac built WMP, modification of Rendezvous (iCal & AddressBook), revision of Grab.app and lastly an audio suite (circa same release date as Appleworks)

So it's not that we don't know ANYTHING. Someone take the torch of one of these and go bang some heads for info. Perhaps we can find somebody working on some aspect of these which can confirm something. (*hint* *hint*)
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post #4 of 228
Well at this point, everything you listed is speculation. But when we get info from Apple at the WWDC, then we can pretty much say it's confirmed...leaked builds of Panther might also give us confirmation on Panther info.

But then again...nothing really is confirmed until it's shipped and in the hands of someone that is doubtful.
post #5 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
... ...brushed metal everywhere... ...

A completely brushed metal interface is BS, **CONFIRMED**.

I think that in that list, a better Finder is the most likely.
post #6 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Well at this point, everything you listed is speculation. But when we get info from Apple at the WWDC, then we can pretty much say it's confirmed...leaked builds of Panther might also give us confirmation on Panther info.

But then again...nothing really is confirmed until it's shipped and in the hands of someone that is doubtful.

Exactly...

Something things that get shown at WWDC might not make it into Panther... Just as was the case with some features that were set for Jag and demo'd at WWDC but 'went missing' when the update shipped... Mini-windows or whatever they were called come to mind.

Dave
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post #7 of 228
Actually the completely brushed metal interface is not confirmed as BS. Prove that it doesn't. Do you have any screenshots to provide?

First the systemwide brused metal that your hearing about is more like a systemwide gray. Imagine brushed metal and setting the brightness way way up. It's so subtile that it just looks gray.
post #8 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by inkhead
Actually the completely brushed metal interface is not confirmed as BS. Prove that it doesn't. Do you have any screenshots to provide?

First the systemwide brused metal that your hearing about is more like a systemwide gray. Imagine brushed metal and setting the brightness way way up. It's so subtile that it just looks gray.

do you have any screenshots to prove what you claim?
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post #9 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by inkhead
Actually the completely brushed metal interface is not confirmed as BS. Prove that it doesn't. Do you have any screenshots to provide?

First the systemwide brused metal that your hearing about is more like a systemwide gray. Imagine brushed metal and setting the brightness way way up. It's so subtile that it just looks gray.

Do you work for Looprumors or do you just pray for them every night?
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
We have several sources claiming a new 'journaled' file system.

We also have talks of iPhoto Pro, Appleworks 7 (coming out in about a year), a cocoa Finder, brushed metal everywhere, revamped dock, Mac built WMP, modification of Rendezvous (iCal & AddressBook), revision of Grab.app and lastly an audio suite (circa same release date as Appleworks)

So it's not that we don't know ANYTHING. Someone take the torch of one of these and go bang some heads for info. Perhaps we can find somebody working on some aspect of these which can confirm something. (*hint* *hint*)

'Several sources' means MacRumors, MOSR, LoopRumors, Macbidouille and TS, yes/not?
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
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"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
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post #10 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
I wouldn't go that far.

We have several sources claiming a new 'journaled' file system.

We also have talks of iPhoto Pro, Appleworks 7 (coming out in about a year), a cocoa Finder, brushed metal everywhere, revamped dock, Mac built WMP, modification of Rendezvous (iCal & AddressBook), revision of Grab.app and lastly an audio suite (circa same release date as Appleworks)

So it's not that we don't know ANYTHING. Someone take the torch of one of these and go bang some heads for info. Perhaps we can find somebody working on some aspect of these which can confirm something. (*hint* *hint*)

Well... the journaled file system is available in 10.2.2 and later.

As for the rest of the stuff you've listed - it's all speculation, 0% confirmed.
post #11 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
We also have talks of iPhoto Pro, Appleworks 7 (coming out in about a year), a cocoa Finder, brushed metal everywhere, revamped dock, Mac built WMP, modification of Rendezvous (iCal & AddressBook), revision of Grab.app and lastly an audio suite (circa same release date as Appleworks)


iphoto pro??

IPHOTO PRO!!!??!?!?!?!?! man something like that is my DREAM!!!! 8)

can u link me to ANY speculation?
it can be more important than reading the bible six times or... uh... becoming a pope or something like that, you know?
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it can be more important than reading the bible six times or... uh... becoming a pope or something like that, you know?
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post #12 of 228
Cocoa Finder is the least likely feature. This is what I am 99% sure about. The thing is, Carbon and Cocoa API can be used in the same application without any problems. To be more precise, they only chose the Carbon event loop model and that is all you could care about. There are no problems with Finder being a Carbon app in this sense. All Finder's drawbacks amount to insufficient stability, poor multithreading and partly inconsistent interface. These are not Carbon-specific issues. And they won't be automatically eliminated if they make a pure Cocoa Finder. To defend Finder I can say that it just works. Not exactly as we would like, but it is usable.
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Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
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post #13 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by inkhead
Actually the completely brushed metal interface is not confirmed as BS. Prove that it doesn't. Do you have any screenshots to provide?

First the systemwide brused metal that your hearing about is more like a systemwide gray. Imagine brushed metal and setting the brightness way way up. It's so subtile that it just looks gray.

Nothing here that has 'Confirmed' in the same sentence should ever be taken seriously, **CONFIRMED**
post #14 of 228
iPhoto Professional recently just came out. It has a 50,000% speed increase, can catalog PDFs, HTML, Movies, Sounds, and Fonts. Some of the features are direct backup to disc, slide show, create HTML from albums, quick navigation in three different modes, support for about 50 more digital cameras, and color correction.

OH and by the way they changed it's name. It's called iView MediaPro

Oh and did i mention the 50,000% speed increase, and the numerous awards iView Media Pro has won? Or maybe the fact that it's the defacto standard for press photographers?

I highly recommend you check it out for yourself:

http://www.iview-multimedia.com/


Some Quotes:

MacWorld: "An indispensable tool for organizing digital assets."

MacHome: "The best choice for digital imaging enthusiasts."

MacFormat UK: "The perfect partner for your digital hub."

MacUser UK: "Cheap - Fast - Simple."

MacWorld France: "Golden software! MacWorld Choice."

MacNut: "Has a lot more features than iPhoto."
post #15 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by inkhead
iPhoto Professional recently just came out. It has a 50,000% speed increase, can catalog PDFs, HTML, Movies, Sounds, and Fonts. Some of the features are direct backup to disc, slide show, create HTML from albums, quick navigation in three different modes, support for about 50 more digital cameras, and color correction.

OH and by the way they changed it's name. It's called iView MediaPro

Oh and did i mention the 50,000% speed increase, and the numerous awards iView Media Pro has won? Or maybe the fact that it's the defacto standard for press photographers?

I highly recommend you check it out for yourself:

http://www.iview-multimedia.com/


Some Quotes:

MacWorld: "An indispensable tool for organizing digital assets."

MacHome: "The best choice for digital imaging enthusiasts."

MacFormat UK: "The perfect partner for your digital hub."

MacUser UK: "Cheap - Fast - Simple."

MacWorld France: "Golden software! MacWorld Choice."

MacNut: "Has a lot more features than iPhoto."

yah thats a pretty good app...iam not a fan of iphoto..

and i dont like adobe...everything after photoshop4 was messy...

i want a photoshop killer from apple...
it can be more important than reading the bible six times or... uh... becoming a pope or something like that, you know?
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it can be more important than reading the bible six times or... uh... becoming a pope or something like that, you know?
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post #16 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by costique
Cocoa Finder is the least likely feature.

Why? Apple is clearly moving everything to Cocoa.

Apple is constantly improving Cocoa...and Carbon is always a few steps behind. The Finder with a Cocoa interface would be in tune with what Apple has been doing in the past year: moving their software to Cocoa.

Apple is pushing developers to use Cocoa at this point. Carbon was great for OS 9 apps that needed porting to OS X...but Apple makes it clear that new projects or rewrites should be in Cocoa.

The Finder is in bad shape. Very bad shape. A rewrite in Cocoa would probably solve LOTS of problems as opposed to trying to heal a fatally wounded Carbon Finder...not because it's Cocoa, but because a rewrite would allow Apple to start fresh with things like a a new filesystem in mind as opposed to tacking it on as a hack to the existing Finder.

But let's face it folks...Cocoa allows for toolbars, drawers and quite a few neat-o things coming in 10.3 that won't be available to Carbon developers. Carbon and Cocoa may be unifying more and more but Apple says Cocoa should be used from now on, so why not bite the bullet and follow Apple's words of wisdom. They know best as to what Cocoa is and will become.
post #17 of 228
kim kap sol, if you are right, why is Finder not written in pure Cocoa yet? Do Apple's developers have problems with coding a file browser from scratch? Everything this Finder does can be done in Cocoa. I don't get it and I tend to think there might be some performance issues. Or a political will to demonstrate a working Carbon app.
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Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
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post #18 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by costique
kim kap sol, if you are right, why is Finder not written in pure Cocoa yet? Do Apple's developers have problems with coding a file browser from scratch? Everything this Finder does can be done in Cocoa. I don't get it and I tend to think there might be some performance issues. Or a political will to demonstrate a working Carbon app.

They're probably working on it right now. They have probably been working on it for quite some time. Who knows. How about we wait for 10.3 before discussing this again.
post #19 of 228
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno
...As for the rest of the stuff you've listed - it's all speculation, 0% confirmed...

I understand that. I was replying to kim kap sol.

Yes, there are lots of rumor sites with opinions. I think it's getting down to time for real leaks to appear. It always happens (well...maybe not always)

So this is the rumor community at large asking anybody in the know to confirm what they can. Not break every trade secret in the book, but just say, "Nah, brushed metal is gonna go" or "Sure, cocoa finder ya got it".
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post #20 of 228
There is also this next style file browsing thing called "piles". You can catch a demo for it here ----->Hi I'm the link
I think its a novel approach to the desktop metaphore that apple has been striving for all these years. As well as filling the seperation between our physical and digital lives. As a 3d artist this style of file manipulation seems somewhat familiar, and estescally pleasing. More of a depth to your UI than the traditional flat panal.

Thoughts anyone.....?
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post #21 of 228
Please no Carbon vs. Cocoa FUD. Carbon is not "less native" than Cocoa, and Cocoa is not necessarily the future for everything. Plus, since Office X the two APIs are merging...so why argue about it. I'm sure Apple knows what the right choice is for their software...other companies will make their own choice as well.
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post #22 of 228
The NeXTies love Cocoa. Cocoa is their baby. Steve LOVES Cocoa. Avi loves Cocoa.

Carbon will be left by the wayside, bit by bit over the next 3-4 years, as Apple implements Cocoa-only advantages to lure them from their Carbon codebase.

Apple wants EVERYONE to use Cocoa. They are giving lip service to the developers regarding Carbon just to keep them in line. As they implement "gotta-have-it" things in Cocoa, they will lure more and more developers to it until they have who they want on board. Then Carbon dies, just as Mac OS 9 has.

It is NOT about compatibility. It is about what Apple (Steve, et al) want. Carbon was forced on them by developers who refused to rewrite code from scratch for OS X. Steve will not let them get away with that one day longer than he has to.
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post #23 of 228
a) more and more cocoa only stuff is now is carbon
b) adobe is not going to make cocoa photshop which pretty much ends the debate of carbon going by the "wayside"
post #24 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardf12
a) more and more cocoa only stuff is now is carbon
b) adobe is not going to make cocoa photshop which pretty much ends the debate of carbon going by the "wayside"

a)

b) Carbon isn't going 'the wayside'...it just won't get improved. Apple would rather just keep improving one framework...and Cocoa is getting all the attention.

I'm sick of hearing people saying there are no difference between Carbon and Cocoa. I'm sick of hearing people say that Carbon and Cocoa are merging. They're not...you can have Carbon events in inside a Cocoa app but the two aren't merging.

Cocoa is the future. Carbon will stay but won't get improved.

End of ****ing story.
post #25 of 228
did i say they were merging? No.
carbon will be improved as long as adobe needs it around.

end of this $%% story.
post #26 of 228
PhotoShop is, if I recall, mostly a "C/C++" application.
The bits of Carbon that are needed for X functionality are a relatively small percentage of the code.
Cocoa is a superset of "C," and now includes "C++" language availability.
When the Cocoa aspects offer improved functionality or performance over the carbon portions of the code, Adobe will switch to Cocoa. It will not happen overnight, but it will happen, I predict.
Cocoa is too easy, too rapid to develop in, to ignore in the long run, I believe.
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post #27 of 228
1. No. Carbon is NOT "better" or "worse" than Cocoa. It is NOT "less native" or "more native" than Cocoa. It is not "under-privileged" in comparison to Cocoa.

2. The journaled filesystem has been here since 10.2.2 (10.2.3?), but what we need is a completely new one, or a port of a good one (like XFS or ReiserFS). It seems to me like people don't even realize this: HFS+ is SLOW! Mac OS X could be so much faster with a better file system.

3. Surely Panther will feature an updated GCC, which will bring lots of performance, too.

4. Brushed metal everywhere is bullcrap for a simple reason: programmers will be pissed off once again because they'd have to adapt their interfaces, AGAIN. Have you seen NSToolbars in Brushed Metal interfaces? Then you know why Apple avoids that.

5. iAnything means "NOT pro, but consumer". Thus, "iPhoto Professional" will surely not be the name. Also, I can't think of any reason whatsoever for Apple to release a professional image management solution.

6. I don't believe in a Cocoa Finder, UNLESS it'll be a real new thing (which we need anyway), like the "Metadata Finder". The Metadata Finder, of course, would make iTunes and iPhoto more or less obsolete, as their main feature is file management. Playing MP3s, burning CDs and simple photo management doesn't require applications like iTunes or iPhoto.

Also, I find it funny that with every single major Mac OS X update, Cocoa Finder rumors keep coming up. With 10.1, with 10.2, and now, with 10.3. The current Finder's interface isn't really good (worse yet, Path Finder copies almost all of its negative aspects), though.

7. AppleWorks is dead, people. AppleWorks has a presentation module which just got rendered useless with the release of Keynote. Apple will replace AppleWorks components with single applications, as has been their interface model since years (integrated interfaces are a bad idea).

8. Revamping the Dock? Right now, the Dock is cool, but not very clever.

9. Not sure what your definition of "WMP" is.

10. Rendezvous is fine. Just now, it's slowly taking off with Linux systems (Mandrake 9.1 includes a ZeroConf implementation). Slooooowly, applications will come up. And hopefully, there'll be a Windows implementation, too.

11. What's wrong with Grap.app?

12. An audio suite? I dunno. Logic seems to be alright.
post #28 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
6. I don't believe in a Cocoa Finder, UNLESS it'll be a real new thing (which we need anyway), like the "Metadata Finder". The Metadata Finder, of course, would make iTunes and iPhoto more or less obsolete, as their main feature is file management. Playing MP3s, burning CDs and simple photo management doesn't require applications like iTunes or iPhoto.

When you have over 2,000 CDs and each individual CD is a playlist you start to see how amazing and wonderful iTunes is.
post #29 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Jared
When you have over 2,000 CDs and each individual CD is a playlist you start to see how amazing and wonderful iTunes is.

He's saying that with a good metadata support in the Finder, iTunes won't be *as* necessary for music browsing. I'm sure iTunes will still remain the ideal browsing method, but you'll be able to achieve close to the same type browsing via the Finder if you wanted to.
post #30 of 228
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Why? Apple is clearly moving everything to Cocoa.

Apple is constantly improving Cocoa...and Carbon is always a few steps behind. The Finder with a Cocoa interface would be in tune with what Apple has been doing in the past year: moving their software to Cocoa.


please provide a list of applications cocoa-ized by apple from carbon?

Apple is pushing developers to use Cocoa at this point. Carbon was great for OS 9 apps that needed porting to OS X...but Apple makes it clear that new projects or rewrites should be in Cocoa.

no matter how apple is pushing, developers are not willing to re invent the wheel to do the same thing again. yes, new application may be written in cocoa, but not the one has been done. why "may be"? it will depend on the user base. if one developer still has large os 8/9 customer base, i bet s/he will still use carbon, not cocoa to develope new app.

The Finder is in bad shape. Very bad shape. A rewrite in Cocoa would probably solve LOTS of problems as opposed to trying to heal a fatally wounded Carbon Finder...not because it's Cocoa, but because a rewrite would allow Apple to start fresh with things like a a new filesystem in mind as opposed to tacking it on as a hack to the existing Finder.

many people keep saying Finder in bad shape, well, it might be true in certain aspects, but this can not be translated into a cocoa Finder. from practical software developmental point of view, apple should not have two Finders, carbon and cocoa. it would be stupid to double QA testing work.

But let's face it folks...Cocoa allows for toolbars, drawers and quite a few neat-o things coming in 10.3 that won't be available to Carbon developers. Carbon and Cocoa may be unifying more and more but Apple says Cocoa should be used from now on, so why not bite the bullet and follow Apple's words of wisdom. They know best as to what Cocoa is and will become.

war here is not carbon vs cocoa, but os x vs os x-, which to improve os x. no doubts about it, this undertaking has been great drill already, now, before the platform gets a firm footage, people are asking for reshape the plan. it is not good.

i am still puzzled by the decision by apple on cocoa api. steve and avi have been in software business for quite long, did not they realize that rewrite a million lines of code of an existing application is a hugh undertaking? it just likes to dump english or any other earth language and instead, to adopt mars' language.

people also said that eventually every one will converge on cocoa. i seriously doubt it. i have 50k lines of code module and would like to rewrite it in a better way and clean way, my QA department fighted to stop it fiercly. so don't expect adobe, microsoft, or other bigger developers to rewrite their big applications. it is just unpractical.
post #31 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Jared
When you have over 2,000 CDs and each individual CD is a playlist you start to see how amazing and wonderful iTunes is.

When you have over 200,000 e-mails from 2,000 different people you start to see how amazing and wonderful BeOS's tracker was.

What iTunes does is nothing but handling MP3 metadata through ID3 tags.
post #32 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by anakin1992 please provide a list of applications cocoa-ized by apple from carbon?

DVD Studio Pro 2, for example.

Quote:
no matter how apple is pushing, developers are not willing to re invent the wheel to do the same thing again. yes, new application may be written in cocoa, but not the one has been done. why "may be"? it will depend on the user base. if one developer still has large os 8/9 customer base, i bet s/he will still use carbon, not cocoa to develope new app.

Agreed, mostly.

Quote:
many people keep saying Finder in bad shape, well, it might be true in certain aspects, but this can not be translated into a cocoa Finder.

Agreed.

Quote:
from practical software developmental point of view, apple should not have two Finders, carbon and cocoa. it would be stupid to double QA testing work.

I don't see how an application that's in development stage requires QA. A finished Cocoa Finder would of course replace the current one.

Quote:
i am still puzzled by the decision by apple on cocoa api.

What decision?
post #33 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
7. AppleWorks is dead, people.

FYI, AppleWorks got a minor update this month. It even comes in a new box which is similar to the new iLife apps and Keynote boxes. Check it out at AppleStore
post #34 of 228
Wow. And this was a TOTALLY silent update.
post #35 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
DVD Studio Pro 2, for example.

i know there are some applications being ported over to cocoa by apple, but the number is quite limited to very small range.

Quote:
I don't see how an application that's in development stage requires QA. A finished Cocoa Finder would of course replace the current one.

yes, when a new feature is developed, QA is not involved. once design and unit testing are done, then QA is in. but designer is not off the hook.

to my understanding, current Finder is implemented in carbon and Finder is one of functionalities in OS X (let us just talke about jaguar alone for simplicity), while each of features in OS X has to be QA-ed indiviudally first and then integrated. now, you change, completely, on Finder and then you tell QA to redo the testing. i guess it is ok to ask them, but the problem is that you have to make sure the nice coordination on integration among various groups working on different features. if it is a standalone application, it might be easier. but dreadful thing happens if one thing changes everything else is affected. in addition, if there are couple of versions of the same features, dumping one for another is not easily being done.

i used to have just one branch of code base. but soon, various branches spawn because of new features coming in. for a smaller project, it is no brainer at all. for a big and collaborated project, it is nightmare to integrate various parts or modules. integration is only the first step, then comes to QA, then back to designer for bug fix then integration, then QA... it is an endless working cycles. so, i normally include QA into the design cycle and i understand that we could have various opinion and expereinces.

finally, a product is released, but that cycle is still there: bug report and fix and QA and on and on. suddently, a group wants to revamp what it has done, let us Finder, and have a completely new thing. basically, this causes us to the square 1.

Quote:
What decision?

the decision to use cocoa when they announced the new mac OS. years ago, (20 or 30 years ago?)linguists invented a univeral language which overcame every bad aspect of all the languages on this planet and hoped it to adopted worldwide. looking around ourselves now, who is using it? english is dominant now, at least in computing and scientific areas, though in pure linguistic point of view english is no better than indian native language at all.

i guess what i tried to point out was that no matter what technology there is, if it can not, practically, solve the problems for your customer and facilitate their work, then it is useless. in apple's case, the customers are adobe, microsoft, and others.
post #36 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by pallando2372
FYI, AppleWorks got a minor update this month. It even comes in a new box which is similar to the new iLife apps and Keynote boxes. Check it out at AppleStore

I know. That doesn't make it any less dead.
post #37 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by anakin1992
to my understanding, current Finder is implemented in carbon and Finder is one of functionalities in OS X (let us just talke about jaguar alone for simplicity), while each of features in OS X has to be QA-ed indiviudally first and then integrated. now, you change, completely, on Finder and then you tell QA to redo the testing. i guess it is ok to ask them, but the problem is that you have to make sure the nice coordination on integration among various groups working on different features. if it is a standalone application, it might be easier. but dreadful thing happens if one thing changes everything else is affected.

For me, the Finder is just (or should be) a GUI for file management. Have you tried Path Finder? It does almost all the Finder does, and more (Converting Pictures, Mounting Disk Images, ...). It's written in Cocoa, looks almost like the Finder, and obviously didn't require any kind of source code from the "real" Finder. The Finder shouldn't be all that complex, and thus, QA testing shouldn't be, either.

Quote:
the decision to use cocoa when they announced the new mac OS.

You mean the decision to buy NeXT and use their operating system base? It was a damn right decision.

Quote:
years ago, (20 or 30 years ago?)linguists invented a univeral language which overcame every bad aspects of all the languages on this planet and hoped it to adopted worldwide. looking around ourselves now, who is using it? english is dominant now, at least in computing and scientific areas, though in pure linguistic point of view english is no better than indian native language at all.

If you mean Esperanto, that was 150 years ago. It didn't work out because English just worked already
post #38 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by anakin1992
i know there are some applications being ported over to cocoa by apple, but the number is quite limited to very small range.

No, it's definitely a direction at Apple. And not so small.

just a few Carbon to Cocoa rewrites
iMovie 2 --> iMovie 3
DVD Studio Pro --> DVD Studio Pro 2
Java 1.3 --> Java 1.4
iDVD --> iDVD 2
Apple System Profiler (10.1) --> Apple System Profiler (10.2)
Help Viewer (10.1) --> Help Viewer (10.2)
AppleScript Editor (10.1) --> Script Editor Beta

And so on.

If anything, the trend seems to be increasing. And of course, practically all new Apple apps are Cocoa.

The Carbon vs. Cocoa debate, when shifted away from its most tiresome, black and white form ("Carbon apps suck! Make it in Cocoa!" "Cocoa apps are slow and suck!") is kind of interesting. Apple has insisted Carbon and Cocoa will be equal citizens, but at the same time it's clear they are moving as much app development over to Cocoa as possible. I actually wouldn't be surprised to hear if there are considerable Cocoa chunks in the Panther Finder.

Question is, can Apple afford to support parallel development in two APIs as new features are added? In the short-term future, sure. It's the long-term future that's more of a mystery.

I'll be interested whether WWDC clears up some of the haze over the future of Carbon vs. Cocoa development.

edit. crx typos.
post #39 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
For me, the Finder is just (or should be) a GUI for file management. [snipped...]

yes, but behind the door, the mechanism to provide a way to relay apple events between the Finder and an Application is done differently, though i hope not, between cocoa and carbon: cocoa is done in an ood way and i don't think carbon uses the same way.

the path Finder is the same as the Finder? i doubt it, but since i never used it before, i can not say much. there is a way to quite the Finder in jaguar. then can you start the Path Finder? is this the Path Finder has to work with the Finder first? anyone knows about it? please post your opinions and thanks ahead.
post #40 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes
No, it's definitely a direction at Apple. And not so small.

just a few Carbon to Cocoa rewrites
iMovie 2 --> iMovie 3
DVD Studio Pro --> DVD Studio Pro 3
Java 1.3 --> Java 1.4
iDVD --> iDVD 2
Apple System Profiler (10.1) --> Help Viewer (10.2)
Help Viewer (10.1) --> Help Viewer (10.2)
AppleScript Editor (10.1) --> Script Editor Beta

And so on.

many thanks for the info. i only knew couple of them. one example makes me quite wonder: if i have an old java application on java 1.3, now in order to use java 1.4, do i have to rework my application to fit java 1.4? normally, i would continue to use java 1.3. but the problem occurs when apple will only update on java 1.4 on bug fix or new features, then i have to be forced to do things in java 1.4. it is ok for once to do it. what about sometime later apple finds a new way to do java on mac os x, what am i going to do again?

Quote:
If anything, the trend seems to be increasing. And of course, practically all new Apple apps are Cocoa.

yeah, it makes much sense to have complete new application in cocoa. by new, i meant, no reuse on the old code. not just for apple, every one else should use cocoa for new app. but the question remains: are those old apps, such as word, excell, ps, etc to be written in cocoa or not? another interesting question will be: are there any new apps that are going to replace those old apps in carbon, such as word, etc?

Quote:
The Carbon vs. Cocoa debate, when shifted away from its most tiresome, black and white form ("Carbon apps suck! Make it in Cocoa!" "Cocoa apps are slow and suck!") is kind of interesting. Apple has insisted Carbon and Cocoa will be equal citizens, but at the same time it's clear they are moving as much app development over to Cocoa as possible. I actually wouldn't be surprised to hear if there are considerable Cocoa chunks in the Panther Finder.

i am not against using cocoa or carbon, as long as it works, i am fine. but what do customers think? if new Finder in panther is cooked in cocoa, what are the effects this change will bring to the behaviors on the interaction between the Finder and application?

Quote:
Question is, can Apple afford to support parallel development in two APIs as new features are added? In the short-term future, sure. It's the long-term future that's more of a mystery.

the only ways i think of that apple will be ok are that there will be a new technology, either hardware or software, rendering both carbon and cocoa as usless or at least not efficient any more; or, apple decides to dump all the old buddies, like adobe, microsoft, etc and dose every thing by itself.
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