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Collection of *confirmed* Panther info. - Page 3

post #81 of 228
Quote:
System-wide metal. Panther's applications system-wide will sport a metal interface. When LoopRumors first reported a system-wide metal interface on March 18th, it was misinterpreted throughout Macintosh sites all over the net. Most applications already support the metal theme.

Maybe they (or we) are confusing their "metal theme" with brushed metal. DVD Studio Pro 2 and Final Cut Pro 4 sport a new theme which is neither brushed metal nor aqua. It uses Aqua-like controls, but is darker and looks somewhat more professional.

Still I doubt this will be system-wide. I think they're just going to split it further (an awful idea): Aqua for general purpose, New Metal for pro apps, Brushed Metal for consumer apps.

Quote:
Flatter Aqua. The overall Aqua appearance in Panther will be flatter with less dimension.

Eh? Didn't you just say they'd get rid of Aqua as-is.

Quote:
The last iChat update late last year showed signs in this direction with the red yellow and green window controls flatter, appearing more recessed within the window. The recently released iTunes also shows signs with the flatter play, fast forward and rewind buttons.

But that's Brushed Metal, not Aqua. Aqua is already quite nice.

Quote:
Improved Dock. You will now be able to control document windows that are sent to the dock. Click and hold on the window's icon in the Dock to Save, Print or Close that window.

Nice.

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Piles. Piles will work just like piles of paper stacked up on your desk. Instead of documents having their own individual space on your computer, you group them together in a Pile and see the contents of that Pile by clicking on it.

Yah, yah *nods*.

Quote:
iChat 2.0. As we reported on December 5th with a subsequent report on March 24th, iChat will be Apple's answer to Microsoft's NetMeeting.

Except that NetMeeting has been dead for a few years

Quote:
iWorks. Apple is developing a new software package that will rival Microsoft's Office X. On March 15, 2003, ThinkSecret first reported that Apple was working on a new productivity suite. iWorks will consist of a word processing application tentatively called "Document," Apple's Keynote presentation software, a spreadsheet/database application, and an updated Mail 2.0 app.

Spreadsheet or database? That's two different things. I can't imagine using FileMaker for spreadsheets.

Quote:
Advanced Software Update. Several sources indicate that the Software Update Control Panel is redesigned. One report specifies that SUCP will maintain a history of all purchases made through one-click, i.e. iTunes Music and software purchased through the Apple Store, will always be accessible for download through that User ID.

Er, no.
post #82 of 228
My take on the "system wide metal" rumor is that Carbon apps will support .nib files in Panther and that developers can easily make Brushed Metal interfaces in Carbon apps as they can in Cocoa apps today.
JLL

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JLL

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post #83 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
My take on the "system wide metal" rumor is that Carbon apps will support .nib files in Panther and that developers can easily make Brushed Metal interfaces in Carbon apps as they can in Cocoa apps today.

This is a system-wide support indeed, in a sense.
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post #84 of 228
Where the **** is the real Universal Software Update to which any developer could hook up his apps?
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post #85 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
My take on the "system wide metal" rumor is that Carbon apps will support .nib files in Panther

1. launch Project Builder
2. new Project
3. "Carbon Application (Nib Based)"
post #86 of 228
Yeah, what Chucker said.

Carbon apps have supported nibs for a LONG time. A number of carbon apps use them.
post #87 of 228
Well, that was a real yawn. I find it interesting that so few of these reports and our own speculation focus on the system software per se. Most of this report was about apps, not the system.
post #88 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
1. launch Project Builder
2. new Project
3. "Carbon Application (Nib Based)"

Forgot about that

Must be because I don't have any nib based Carbon apps.

But is it easy to make a brushed metal look if you don't use IB?
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #89 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
Forgot about that

Must be because I don't have any nib based Carbon apps.

But is it easy to make a brushed metal look if you don't use IB?

You *do* use IB (I think. I don't do Carbon.).
post #90 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
You *do* use IB (I think. I don't do Carbon.).

I don't think people are using IB if the code in CodeWarrior or other developer tools.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #91 of 228
Anything you do in IB, you can do programatically, by hand.

It's just a royal pain. Well no, it's not really any harder than doing any other programmatic building of a GUI... in other words, it's a royal pain.
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post #92 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
I don't think people are using IB if the code in CodeWarrior or other developer tools.

If they use CodeWarrior, they don't use Project Builder either.
post #93 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
If they use CodeWarrior, they don't use Project Builder either.

Which I never said they did.
JLL

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JLL

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post #94 of 228
Point is:

You can use Carbon NIBs from IB, or CodeWarrior. One's just a whole lot easier than the other.
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post #95 of 228
JLL,

a ) EITHER they use Project Builder, choose "Carbon with nib-based Interface" and use Interface Builder to build the nib

b ) OR they use CodeWarrior or whatever else and need to do this manually

But choosing b ) does NOT mean they can't use nib files. It'll just get needlessly difficult.
post #96 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
JLL,

a ) EITHER they use Project Builder, choose "Carbon with nib-based Interface" and use Interface Builder to build the nib

b ) OR they use CodeWarrior or whatever else and need to do this manually

But choosing b ) does NOT mean they can't use nib files. It'll just get needlessly difficult.

OK, stop it now! I get it - you just didn't understand what I was asking about earlier.

I said: But is it easy to make a brushed metal look if you don't use IB?

You said: You *do* use IB

I said: I don't think people are using IB if they code in CodeWarrior or other developer tools.

You said: If they use CodeWarrior, they don't use Project Builder either.

I said: Which I never said they did.

Confusing conversation
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #97 of 228
Just out of curiousity, can you use other textures that are'nt metal? It would be kinda cool to have a "water" texture or something.
post #98 of 228
CodeWarrior can read and integrate NIBs generated with Interface Builder, so the answer to using NIBs in CW is the same as the answer for PB. Both Carbon and Cocoa apps developed in CW can use IB interfaces.
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post #99 of 228
A system wide metal interface can mean either some of the following or all of them :
- All iApps already brush metal
- other Apple apps managing media "brushmetalizzed" : Mail, Preview, Sherlock, TextEdit (or next Appleworks)
- Apple utilities : Airport Admin Utility, Disk Uitlity, Disk Copy, ColorSync Utility etc...
- Apple System integrated utilities (no apps per se but os features or "configuration panels" : Print Center, Preferences, NetInfo Manager, Terminal, Console, Help...

My guess is that Apple will have in brush metal all its apps that manage media (text, pictures, sound, video) -,including Mail, Sherlock and maybe Help ; and Utilities covering different functions will be considered no more Finder features but Apps per se and thus could be metallized:
- Print Center (1: install, choose and configure printers, 2: manage trays and print jobs and printed layout)
- Network Utility
- ODBC Administrator
- Disc Utility

With that, a System wide brush metal interface could be considered as a reality while Aqua Finder would be still there. That's why rumors speaking of the system wide metal interface could be not so inaccurate even if Aqua is still there.

On a side note, some Utilities could be gathered in a special Advanced Prefences Panel : Colorsync Utility, Display calibrator, Audio Midi Setup, Airport and Bluetooth Utilities, NetInfo, Keychain...they are hardly apps and more settings panels.
Why not go further and set this thing in brush metal...
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post #100 of 228
I think that iChat would be great with a feature that Safari brought us: Tabs. I don't know about you guys, but when I'm on iChat, I am usually talking to 4-5 people at once, in individual chats. To eliminate that chaos would be great. Imagine: all of your chats grouped into a single window. Nice.
Another app that iChat could take on would be Proteus. Proteus provides users with compatability with AIM, Jabber, Yahoo--the whole gamut of messaging services. iChat: the universal messenger.
post #101 of 228
At least per Apple's UE guidelines, it does make sense that apps like Disk Copy, Airport Utility and Disk Utility would be brushed metal since they specifically interact with physical devices. That's saying nothing of the metal guidelines Apple wrote of course.
post #102 of 228
I'm quite cool about iapps having 'metal' interfaces. It distinguishes it, for me, from the rest of the Aqua desktop. I wish they'd can the interface pin-stripes. Classic iMac is gone...and I think they should go from 'X' as well.

Apple white would be fine...or metallic white...a hint of grey here or there to add depth. Bit like that subtle stuff that goes on in their print adds...

Or make translucent blue like the dock. Either way, let go of the pin-stripes.

I'd also like to see more 3d effects and QE gubbins. More fluid effects. The 970 should herald the oomph to do 'pile' type effects and have multiple desktop screens on rotating Cube style transitions.

The option to take stuff out the dock and plonk it on your desktop. Put the trash there. Have the 'X' support 'Mac 9' interface layout if necessary...to get over more of those 25 million Mac users across. Does it really matter to secure Next's place in history? I'd like more 'Mac feel' to the next release. More clickety-bickety sounds. Jaguar's good. But it's far from the finished item in terms of the deft touches enjoyed by Mac 9 users. Optimisations could afford more, no?

I like 'X'. But it doesn't have the charm of 9 yet. Ironic that all the eye-candy in the world can't give you that 'X-factor', eh?

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post #103 of 228
man, I have lost faith in LoopRumors
their website has become muddled, whereas it used to have a nice clean website....

also, they used to be conservative in their sayings, now they are throwing out these outrageous claims!
post #104 of 228
Quote:
Improved Dock. You will now be able to control document windows that are sent to the dock. Click and hold on the window's icon in the Dock to Save, Print or Close that window.

I wonder if this means you can print Finder windows again. (PS: I know about the drop proxy on the Print Center trick.)
post #105 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I wonder if this means you can print Finder windows again.

Is there any doubt that this will be advertised as a Major Feature in the Panther marketing campaign?
post #106 of 228
Out of curiosity, why do people print finder windows? for a list of file names and some attributes? (assuming the list isn't too long..)
post #107 of 228
It's usually for backup/inventory purposes. Really, Apple should couple it with either their .Mac Backup app or with Disk Copy in some capacity.
post #108 of 228
I see Apple changing OS X to take the jobs of several small utilities: you know, Windowshade X, Transparent Dock, Fruitmenu-- all of the OS X customization apps.
post #109 of 228
It would be nice to have more customisation options in 10.3 than is now available built-in to the OS. Bring back the system sounds!
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Computer: Cedric
Specs: eMac, 700MHz PowerPC G4, 384MB of RAM, 40GB HD, CD-RW drive, nVidia GeForce 2 MX, Mac OS X 10.1.5/Mac OS 9.2.2
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post #110 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
I see Apple changing OS X to take the jobs of several small utilities: you know, Windowshade X, Transparent Dock, Fruitmenu-- all of the OS X customization apps.

Now this is a good call. I sincerely hope they will.
post #111 of 228
Somehow I doubt they would just add these things straight-up. If they did add the functionality, they would probably do it in a way that fits the current window management model they have now.
post #112 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
I see Apple changing OS X to take the jobs of several small utilities: you know, Windowshade X, Transparent Dock, Fruitmenu-- all of the OS X customization apps.

Hmmm... Windowshade and BeHeirachic started off as third party additions before being incorporated into System 7. So it's not infeasible!

Amorya
post #113 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
OK, stop it now! I get it - you just didn't understand what I was asking about earlier.

I said: But is it easy to make a brushed metal look if you don't use IB?

You said: You *do* use IB

I said: I don't think people are using IB if they code in CodeWarrior or other developer tools.

You said: If they use CodeWarrior, they don't use Project Builder either.

I said: Which I never said they did.

Confusing conversation

To clear it up: You don't have to use nib files to get the brushed metal look, so you don't have to use IB either. Even RealBasic has no problems making metal windows, and RealBasic doesn't even use bundles, let alone nib files.
post #114 of 228
Thread Starter 
What do you think about Panther Public Beta requiring an Online Activation?
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post #115 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
What do you think about Panther Public Beta requiring an Online Activation?

I don't see this happening to any Apple OS in the near future. At least not until it is more common in other software programs. If it will, I'm sure it will be dealt with in a different and more elegant way than ms is now with XP, and maybe not requiering you to give them your personal information. I'm sure it would stop a lot of pirating of OS X which i recon is quite widespread for the moment, and that would earn Apple some more money. For me it will not make much of a difference since I buy "all" of my software anyway, but if it happens, the activation prosedure have to be easy and relatively hassle-free. And I don't think Apple will make unregistered computers stop working after 30 days. Maybe just giving you a message to register for every 30 mins or so, making it enough of a hassle for you to bother to register or buy the os if you're using a pirated version.
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post #116 of 228
Thread Starter 
Sorry, didn't mean to start a debate. I have been discussing this with two friends of mine (the same which say panther won't be G3 friendly) who believe (strongly) that Panther PB requires you to enter your ADC ID and email upon installation. Then it emails you a custom 'built on the fly' 500kb file which is your 'software key'. It links your computer to your ID and won't allow any others to use the same key. The idea being that this will keep all the Public Beta users in contact with Apple. The final version however will not have this and will continue to be like all previous Mac OSes.

This seems like a decent idea since the POINT of a Public Beta is to further test and report problems. Hence I don't see any reason to doubt their belief (even if the purported version of Panther PB doesn't exist yet)

Just thoughts over late morning coffee...
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post #117 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
Sorry, didn't mean to start a debate.

Apology accepted
Quote:
I have been discussing this with two friends of mine (the same which say panther won't be G3 friendly) who believe (strongly) that Panther PB requires you to enter your ADC ID and email upon installation. Then it emails you a custom 'built on the fly' 500kb file which is your 'software key'. It links your computer to your ID and won't allow any others to use the same key. The idea being that this will keep all the Public Beta users in contact with Apple.

Seems reasonable
Quote:
The final version however will not have this and will continue to be like all previous Mac OSes.

This seems most likely I guess.
Quote:
This seems like a decent idea since the POINT of a Public Beta is to further test and report problems. Hence I don't see any reason to doubt their belief (even if the purported version of Panther PB doesn't exist yet)

Just thoughts over late morning coffee...

Taking a "before dinner coffee" myself (time is currently 16:58 here)
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post #118 of 228
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
Sorry, didn't mean to start a debate. I have been discussing this with two friends of mine (the same which say panther won't be G3 friendly) who believe (strongly) that Panther PB requires you to enter your ADC ID and email upon installation. Then it emails you a custom 'built on the fly' 500kb file which is your 'software key'. It links your computer to your ID and won't allow any others to use the same key. The idea being that this will keep all the Public Beta users in contact with Apple. The final version however will not have this and will continue to be like all previous Mac OSes.

This seems like a decent idea since the POINT of a Public Beta is to further test and report problems. Hence I don't see any reason to doubt their belief (even if the purported version of Panther PB doesn't exist yet)

Just thoughts over late morning coffee...

I'd believe that in a second. Apple has reportedly been very irritated by leaks of OS X beta seeds.

Especially now that MS is in the midst of developing Longhorn, it's crucial that Apple keep Panther under wraps for as long as possible.

Calling Panther "not G3-friendly", OTOH, sounds misleading to me. That's just the flip side, for example, of "even more optimized for AltiVec". Great for G4+ () users, no effect for G3 users.
post #119 of 228
that's not a 'public' beta.

that's a developer seed.
post #120 of 228
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes
Calling Panther "not G3-friendly", OTOH, sounds misleading to me. That's just the flip side, for example, of "even more optimized for AltiVec". Great for G4+ () users, no effect for G3 users.

You bring up a good point. Perhaps by 'not G3 native' doesn't mean 'not G3 compatible' but simply 'not optimized for G3'.

Every time I bring this up people quote the iBook story and say that they will have to stop shipping G3s for over a year and a half before the next OS drops them. I disagree. We are in changing time with AAPL and I don't see the future of the G3 running a 64 bit OS. That is like running XP on a P1 or P2. It can be done, but SHOULD it be done?

I suspect Panther will retain enough of Jaguar to allow all previous apps to function both ways. This means that Jaguar iBook owners aren't out 'in the cold' so to speak, instead they are able to run modern sofware, but not the latest and spankinest OS without some upgrades. I would counter qoute, "What the *ell is Apple gonna do? Ship free ram upgardes for all these RAM starved iBooks with each Panther purchase? Or are we to believe that somehow Panther will use LESS memory and perform with MORE power. I don't see either of these happening.

In any case, in a few months this will be a moot point so there really is no need for us to argue about it. (sorry I started something)

PS< Whew! Now I don't have the evil 666 anymore.
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