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The Decline of Europe - makenews/opinion - Page 3

post #81 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders the White
<picture of crap>

Whatever, dude. Next time I'll remember to just agree with you no matter what you say.

[edit: One page with that picture is enough. - Groverat, the evil moderator]
"Countless mothers will light candles and celebrate the tyrant's capture - mothers in all the cities of Iraq, in all the villages of Iran, in all the streets and quarters of Kuwait, everywhere the...
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"Countless mothers will light candles and celebrate the tyrant's capture - mothers in all the cities of Iraq, in all the villages of Iran, in all the streets and quarters of Kuwait, everywhere the...
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post #82 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
...getting Congress to crack down on this pork-barrel bonanza would be like the turkeys voting for Christmas.

Thanksgiving. We eat turkey for thanksgiving.

"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #83 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
Whatever, dude. Next time I'll remember to just agree with you no matter what you say.

Thanks for putting the entire photo in your quote so now this page of the thread will be too wide. Real considerate of you.
post #84 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Thanksgiving. We eat turkey for thanksgiving.


I actually had that at first, but I didn't know if you used the "turkey voting" metaphor, so I stuck with the UK version, where turkey==christmas.
a flirt with mediocrity comes with heavy penalty
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a flirt with mediocrity comes with heavy penalty
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post #85 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Thanks for putting the entire photo in your quote so now this page of the thread will be too wide. Real considerate of you.

I'll bet this'll just destroy your week, huh?
"Countless mothers will light candles and celebrate the tyrant's capture - mothers in all the cities of Iraq, in all the villages of Iran, in all the streets and quarters of Kuwait, everywhere the...
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"Countless mothers will light candles and celebrate the tyrant's capture - mothers in all the cities of Iraq, in all the villages of Iran, in all the streets and quarters of Kuwait, everywhere the...
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post #86 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
I'll bet this'll just destroy your week, huh?

So you take the extra effort to be a dumbass rather than just fix it. What are you, 10?
post #87 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
So you take the extra effort to be a dumbass rather than just fix it. What are you, 10?

This is a puzzler! I can't quite figure out why I'd want to make you happy.
"Countless mothers will light candles and celebrate the tyrant's capture - mothers in all the cities of Iraq, in all the villages of Iran, in all the streets and quarters of Kuwait, everywhere the...
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"Countless mothers will light candles and celebrate the tyrant's capture - mothers in all the cities of Iraq, in all the villages of Iran, in all the streets and quarters of Kuwait, everywhere the...
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post #88 of 159
Ladies, ladies!
Enough!
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #89 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Yeah, but my fear is that Clinton seemed to have these tendencies as well, and thus possibly the Democratic party.

Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Yeah, but my fear is that Clinton seemed to have these tendencies as well, and thus possibly the Democratic party.

It's definitely a concern, but I think that the true hard-line proponents of worldwide US hegemony (the usual neoconservative / neoliberal suspects) are Republicans who are not necessarily representative of either the Republican party or US conservatives in general (Pat Buchanan certainly has a bee in his bonnet about them*). Of course, neocons dominate foreign policy on the Right because other conservatives tend to be more inward looking...those on the left with neocon / neoliberal tendencies are less able to co-opt foreign policy.

EDIT: *of course, Pat Buchanan has quite a lot of bees in his bonnet...
post #90 of 159
Boy, that Buchana article is so vitriolic about his Not being Anti-semitic while also pointing out the 'connections between teh neo-con agenda and that of Israel that it is almost a case of "methinks thou doth protest too much"

The article, reading the lines and not even between them, reads like a screed from Neo nazis . . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #91 of 159
From that article: there are terms thrown around that are directly from the aesthetic/hygenic project of fascist Germany: refering to jews as germs

Quote:
Sunlight is the best disinfectant. As Al Smith used to say, Nothing un-American can live in the sunlight.

or note teh notion of 'breed'
Quote:
support of Israel as a defining characteristic of their breed.

he also uses teh term 'Cabal' repeatedly, a term that has a long history of abuse.

the funniest thing is that he tries to make a connection with neoCons and, via dissaffected Liberals, the Communist-plague . .. in other words the whole thing seems to have a hidden (or not so hidden) agenda of paranoid schizo-analysis


But then again some of it is pretty convincing and goes along thesame lines as Sami-Jo stuff\
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #92 of 159
Buchanan is one of the last people who's opinions I would place value on (and I agree that there are anti-semitic undertones in that article which make it an uncomfortable read) but it is interesting to see how the neocons are percieved by some of the old school 'paleoconservatives' and how often Buchanan's complaints chime in with those of the left...apparently many Reaganite cons are less then fond of the neocons as well.
post #93 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
"methinks thou doth protest too much"

The article, reading the lines and not even between them, reads like a screed from Neo nazis . . . .

The question is: what do you do once both sides start "protesting too much"?

In fact I'm not sure he protested much at all but rather dismissed *their* protests that people who disagreed with them were merely anti-semitic.

Nothing I've heard about Pat Buchanan makes me think I would agree with him about much of anything. However, I just read that entire article and, in my opinion, it in no way seemed like a neo-nazi screed.

It all seemed very plausible, but that doesn't mean he's not anti-semitic anymore than him being anti-semitic means it's untrue.
a flirt with mediocrity comes with heavy penalty
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a flirt with mediocrity comes with heavy penalty
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post #94 of 159
Well, one quality of paranoid pamphleteering is that besides the sync points where it touches down to the 'cabals' and the revealing symptomatic terms of occassional racism ('breed') and the constant falling into the usage of 'They', besides all that it all seems so compelling.

Paranoia is a hallmark of rampant intelligence that has lost touch with the reference points of sense and the bodily reality that makes up the common life-world of 'meanings.' A paranoid tries to make meanings out of the phenomena that are at the edges of sensible reality: tries to draw conclusions from making networks out of the relationship of signs not grounded in the sensible world . . .. the parts all make sense but their being forced into an over-all coherent pattern is where the paranoid excells, its allways 'behind the scenes', its allways so obviouse as well, except that it is allways hidden . . .

Anti-Semitism has a special place in the paranoid schemata because of the history of Jews as a sub-culture in Europe never quite explainable in terms of the Life-world of common European discourse . . . they kept their world and culture despite the constant threat of violence, and since they could not be explained as an incorporated part of the life-world they became the Other within: the unexplainable agent
this, coupled with the fact that Jews historically were forbidden to work in many fields and were thus forced into fields considered taboo (travelling merchants, money-lenders, jewelers) they were seen as taking control of these realms. Because Jewish culture interfaced with Europeans pretty much exclusively at these areas Europeans created hysterical readings of just what jews were doing with those roles given them once they became successful with those roles.
this became the 'behind-the-scenes' kind of explanaition of the unexplainable (in European terms) . . .a behind the scenes which was also seen as within the very world of values of the common European
When Nihilism was unnavoidable due to the Industrial Revolution and the disenfranchisement of "God" (Death of God) as an intrinsic valuator(catch-all explanation) of the life world, Europeans looked for an explanation for their loss of control: their loss of self and the loss of all 'meaning' . . rather than accept that the forces came from the manner history unfolded, they looked at the most obviouse "Unexplanable" within their life-world: Jews became the scapegoat for Europe's loss of meaning .. . . .nevermind that Europe itself became 'Unexplainable' with the "Death Of God" (Historically/culturally speaking here you CHristians) the Jews became the paranoid defence mechanism Du Jour
and this residue persists, anti-Semitism is almost a default for paranoids as this historical dynamic is still under the surface as part of the history of Europe.

THe same can be said for Gypsy's except that Gypsies never took to the taboo occupations and never succeeded monetarily . . . so they never became the 'behind the scenes' kind of scapegoat merely the 'pest' kind of scapegtoat explanation.

anyway . . . just some thoughts
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #95 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders the White
Now thats another discussion altogether

You may disagree with the effectiveness of the strategy but nontheless it was how it was seen from "old" europe. So that invalidates the "they wanted to keep Saddam in power" claim.

The effectiveness of the strategy belongs to another thread where I won´t participate

It is not whether I disagree with the strategy, but whether support of a non-strategy constitutes support.

I suppose that if you were holding a life jacket but wouldn't throw it to someone who was drowning then you could declare that you didn't support drowning because, hey you didn't push them under the water.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #96 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
I thought at first the refusal to accept the nature of terrorism was just an affectation but it has slowly dawned on me that American hawks really do think that Europeans were "afraid to kick ass" and deal with "the terrorists" when it came to Iraq.

The continuing confusion between 'a country with an army' and 'terrorists' is the problem. As I said it will take more handfuls of unarmed people killing large numbers of civilians for the US to click that you can't invade terroristan and change the regime.

That is the modern reality and I wager your U.S. military machines will be as effective as they were the last time.

Likewise to believe that a government cannot clandestinely support terrorists and harbor terrorists while claiming they do not is even more gullable.

To say that the U.S. has abolished terrorism is not correct. However freezing funds, destroying training camps, and of course getting rid of governments that allow this does affect their ability to act. We can't stop someone from screaming fire in a theater but we can make sure the town has a fire truck, and that the theater has a fire alarm, sprinklers, and emergancy exits.

I'm not going to overrationalize and believe that we can account for every person everywhere. However the current actions do and will continue to have an effect.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #97 of 159
Quote:
They did all in their power to keep Saddam Hussein in power, which makes them accessories to tyranny and war crimes.

This is absurd. There attempts at preventing us from making a mistake that would increase terrorism, and decrease our national security does in no way make them accessories to tyranny.

He also skips over the fact that we the United States of America sold Iraq weapons for their war against Iran. Guess we are accessories too.

In todays world having a super large army like what the United States posseses is of less importance than the past. A very small force can inflict horrible humanitarian, and economic damages apon a country (9/11.) Invading Iraq only angers more people and motivates them to assist/directly help such terrorist groups. Invading Iraq was a big mistake and I believe that is the years to come we will see the repurcussions of our actions. Liberated Iraqi's or not.
"What makes a man turn... neutral?" - Futurama
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"What makes a man turn... neutral?" - Futurama
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post #98 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
It is not whether I disagree with the strategy, but whether support of a non-strategy constitutes support.

No side of the issue (except perhaps the Buchannonites who are complete isolationists) supported a non-strategy.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
Reply
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #99 of 159
Pat Buchanan is not a person I respect. His type are found too often in Europe and Pat is here in America trying to stir up anti-Israel feelings.

I have no place for Pat Buchanan

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #100 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Pat Buchanan is not a person I respect. His type are found too often in Europe and Pat is here in America trying to stir up anti-Israel feelings.

I have no place for Pat Buchanan

Fellowship

Could you explain that? Not that I like Buchanan or anything, but I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #101 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Subarushian
This is absurd. There attempts at preventing us from making a mistake that would increase terrorism, and decrease our national security does in no way make them accessories to tyranny.

He also skips over the fact that we the United States of America sold Iraq weapons for their war against Iran. Guess we are accessories too.

In todays world having a super large army like what the United States posseses is of less importance than the past. A very small force can inflict horrible humanitarian, and economic damages apon a country (9/11.) Invading Iraq only angers more people and motivates them to assist/directly help such terrorist groups. Invading Iraq was a big mistake and I believe that is the years to come we will see the repurcussions of our actions. Liberated Iraqi's or not.

Yeah and once we fought the British for our independence, and we nuked the Japanese. We went to war with Mexico and fought Germany. In fact we sold weapons to Britain to fight Germany even though we once fought...wait...uh...

Yeah it's called the past. This is called the present. If you would like to discuss it please feel free to chime in.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #102 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Well, one quality of paranoid pamphleteering is that besides the sync points where it touches down to the 'cabals' and the revealing symptomatic terms of occassional racism ('breed') and the constant falling into the usage of 'They', besides all that it all seems so compelling.

Paranoia is a hallmark of rampant intelligence that has lost touch with the reference points of sense and the bodily reality that makes up the common life-world of 'meanings.' A paranoid tries to make meanings out of the phenomena that are at the edges of sensible reality: tries to draw conclusions from making networks out of the relationship of signs not grounded in the sensible world . . .. the parts all make sense but their being forced into an over-all coherent pattern is where the paranoid excells, its allways 'behind the scenes', its allways so obviouse as well, except that it is allways hidden . . .

Anti-Semitism has a special place in the paranoid schemata because of the history of Jews as a sub-culture in Europe never quite explainable in terms of the Life-world of common European discourse . . . they kept their world and culture despite the constant threat of violence, and since they could not be explained as an incorporated part of the life-world they became the Other within: the unexplainable agent
this, coupled with the fact that Jews historically were forbidden to work in many fields and were thus forced into fields considered taboo (travelling merchants, money-lenders, jewelers) they were seen as taking control of these realms. Because Jewish culture interfaced with Europeans pretty much exclusively at these areas Europeans created hysterical readings of just what jews were doing with those roles given them once they became successful with those roles.
this became the 'behind-the-scenes' kind of explanaition of the unexplainable (in European terms) . . .a behind the scenes which was also seen as within the very world of values of the common European
When Nihilism was unnavoidable due to the Industrial Revolution and the disenfranchisement of "God" (Death of God) as an intrinsic valuator(catch-all explanation) of the life world, Europeans looked for an explanation for their loss of control: their loss of self and the loss of all 'meaning' . . rather than accept that the forces came from the manner history unfolded, they looked at the most obviouse "Unexplanable" within their life-world: Jews became the scapegoat for Europe's loss of meaning .. . . .nevermind that Europe itself became 'Unexplainable' with the "Death Of God" (Historically/culturally speaking here you CHristians) the Jews became the paranoid defence mechanism Du Jour
and this residue persists, anti-Semitism is almost a default for paranoids as this historical dynamic is still under the surface as part of the history of Europe.

THe same can be said for Gypsy's except that Gypsies never took to the taboo occupations and never succeeded monetarily . . . so they never became the 'behind the scenes' kind of scapegoat merely the 'pest' kind of scapegtoat explanation.

anyway . . . just some thoughts

pflamm makes a good observation here. When I think of any of my associates that are conspiracy theorists, the main fear seems to be a secret society that controls the world and maneuvers it. And the Jews are always at the heart of this secret elite club. But this is chronic; these theories are usually given from the old generation to the new one, from the Rosicrucians and the Confessio fraternitatis Roseae crucis, Ad eruditor Europae to the post French Revolution Memoires pour servir a l'histoire du jacobinisme by Barruel which talked about a secret society bent on the destruction of the monarchy and papacy made up of mostly jews, with the French revolution being the final outcome of the "master Plan". There is always a need for a scapegoat; even a fictional one. An elusive bunge quality 'strawman'. It's sad to see that old lies don't die out. They only get stronger.
post #103 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
No side of the issue (except perhaps the Buchannonites who are complete isolationists) supported a non-strategy.

It was my assertion that they did sit squarely on one side of the issue. The side of the issue that kept Saddam in power and maintained his tyranny.

If you support the status quo and it happens to be tyranny, then you support tyranny.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #104 of 159
Quote:
Yeah it's called the past. This is called the present. If you would like to discuss it please feel free to chime in.

And so there's no relation between the two?

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #105 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Could you explain that? Not that I like Buchanan or anything, but I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Cheers
Scott

Let me just say if the race for President of the US was a choice between Buchanan or Hillary Clinton I would vote for Clinton just to make sure Buchanan does not step foot in the White House.

He is very anti-Jewish in my humble opinion.

He makes me sick.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #106 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
pflamm makes a good observation here. When I think of any of my associates that are conspiracy theorists, the main fear seems to be a secret society that controls the world and maneuvers it. And the Jews are always at the heart of this secret elite club. But this is chronic; these theories are usually given from the old generation to the new one, from the Rosicrucians and the Confessio fraternitatis Roseae crucis, Ad eruditor Europae to the post French Revolution Memoires pour servir a l'histoire du jacobinisme by Barruel which talked about a secret society bent on the destruction of the monarchy and papacy made up of mostly jews, with the French revolution being the final outcome of the "master Plan". There is always a need for a scapegoat; even a fictional one. An elusive bunge quality 'strawman'. It's sad to see that old lies don't die out. They only get stronger.

EXACTLY! For once I agree with pfflam. I can not stand the tired old story of blame the Jews for everything. It is OLD and I am sick of it to the N'th degree.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #107 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Let me just say if the race for President of the US was a choice between Buchanan or Hillary Clinton I would vote for Clinton just to make sure Buchanan does not step foot in the White House.

He is very anti-Jewish in my humble opinion.

He makes me sick.

Fellowship

Agreed. But let me ask this, and again, I ask it in all sincerity, why is his (apparent) anti-semitism important to you?

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #108 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Agreed. But let me ask this, and again, I ask it in all sincerity, why is his (apparent) anti-semitism important to you?

Cheers
Scott

I know many Jews I respect them and they are my friends. I think it is a sad day to sit back and allow people to spew conspiracy rhetoric that is racist.

I also would take offence at hate directed to Blacks or Gays.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #109 of 159
Quote:
I think it is a sad day to sit back and allow people to spew conspiracy rhetoric that is racist.

I also would take offence at hate directed to Blacks or Gays.
[/B]

Why?

I'm not being contrarian here. I honestly want to know how you explain/think about this.

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #110 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Why?

I'm not being contrarian here. I honestly want to know how you explain/think about this.

Cheers
Scott

scapegoats in history have claimed too many lives. History can repeat itself if good men do not stand up to the evil ones who would promote the continuation of lies and paranoia.

I am rooted in a value system or world view of Justice and people like Pat Buchanan do not line up with my views.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #111 of 159
Quote:
scapegoats in history have claimed too many lives.

Indeed. The question I'm driving at here is what makes something a scapegoat and something else *not*?

Quote:
History can repeat itself if good men do not stand up to the evil ones who would promote the continuation of lies and paranoia.

You've got this aphorism wrong.

Actually, you've conflated two different quotes. The first is something like "Those who do not learn their history are doomed to repeat it."

The second is that "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" (Edmund Burke)

Those two quotes do not necessarily have anything to do with one another. In fact, it could be argued that in the sense you're using them, they are potentially antithetical to one another.

I'll ask the question in a more pointed way: are anti-semite politics more distasteful to you than anti-arab politics?

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #112 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Indeed. The question I'm driving at here is what makes something a scapegoat and something else *not*?

I'll ask the question in a more pointed way: are anti-semite politics more distasteful to you than anti-arab politics?

Cheers
Scott

To respond to your first question what makes something a scapegoat and something else not I will say:

A given society must correctly identify its problems and not blame the problems on a false "scapegoat"

These lines can be blured depending on who is reviewing the data and it is this mis-reading of the data and wrong assignment of a wrong "scapegoat" that sorry minded political opertunists seek to harness and use for the wrong reasons which lead to injustice and continued hatred.

To respond to your second question "are anti-semite politics more distasteful to me than anti-arab politics? No not one ounce. It is equally distasteful to me. We must as a world allow for all peoples to live and exist and indeed this includes the palestinian people and the Isralies. In fact this should pertain to all peoples of the Earth.

Funny enough I saw this evening a documentary on the Bushmen of Southern Africa and how they are viewed by the others in the area as less than human. I strongly believe we all are human and are due our freedom, way of life and pursuit of happiness. I do not agree with those who seek to demonize a whole group of people no matter who they are.

Bushmen link

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #113 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
[B]To respond to your first question what makes something a scapegoat and something else not I will say:

A given society must correctly identify its problems and not blame the problems on a false "scapegoat"

These lines can be blured depending on who is reviewing the data and it is this mis-reading of the data and wrong assignment of a wrong "scapegoat" that sorry minded political opertunists seek to harness and use for the wrong reasons which lead to injustice and continued hatred.

Well, to clear a few things up here... A "scapegoat" is a jewish tradition in which a local people sacrifice a goat which bears the burdens of that people's sins upon it. Its death therefore cleanses them of sin.

As for this line--"sorry minded political opertunists seek to harness and use for the wrong reasons which lead to injustice and continued hatred"--you might want to think long and hard about the implications of such a position. What makes one "sorry minded" or a "political opportunist"? How do we determine "wrong reasons"? How do we determine what leads to "injustice and continued hatred"?

It would be very easy for me to turn all of this back on to the current administration and its policies in the middle east.

Quote:
To respond to your second question "are anti-semite politics more distasteful to me than anti-arab politics? No not one ounce. It is equally distasteful to me. We must as a world allow for all peoples to live and exist and indeed this includes the palestinian people and the Isralies. In fact this should pertain to all peoples of the Earth.

I didn't mention the Palestinians. I mentioned the Arabs. And I only realized after you'd responded that I should've simply said "Muslims."

At any rate, so you're arguing that we should be tolerant of other peoples (Jews and Muslims) and their beliefs?

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #114 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter


At any rate, so you're arguing that we should be tolerant of other peoples (Jews and Muslims) and their beliefs?

Cheers
Scott

Greetings midwinter,

I think you know what I am saying at this point, indeed I believe it is just to recognize all peoples and to treat all equally.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #115 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Greetings midwinter,

I think you know what I am saying at this point, indeed I believe it is just to recognize all peoples and to treat all equally.

Fellowship

What I'm asking, FCIB, is what that *means*. And how far you're willing to take it?

You ignored the first part of my response, which I think was fairly important.

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #116 of 159
Ladies , and gentlemen could you please stay on topic.
post #117 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Ladies , and gentlemen could you please stay on topic.

I thought I was....these are questions that, however US-centric, are largely determining US foreign policy (and our "attitude" toward Europe is included in this) these days and thus have a significant bearing upon whether or not Europe is "irrelevant."

Did I miss something?

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #118 of 159
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I thought I was....these are questions that, however US-centric, are largely determining US foreign policy (and our "attitude" toward Europe is included in this) these days and thus have a significant bearing upon whether or not Europe is "irrelevant."

Did I miss something?

Cheers
Scott

If you are right it will means that the question of relevance of Europe is more a question of perception of US people, rather than a strict reality.

Perhaps i was silly to answer this question in a strict rational way, and to forgot the psychological aspect of it.
post #119 of 159
I believe I can clear this up once and for all.

As long as there is Lindt chocolate in Switzerland, dog shit on the pavements of Paris, fado in Portugal, all-night art deco cafés in Spain, weird fish dishes in Norway and everything in the city of Florence, Europe will be just fine.
post #120 of 159
And Sir Mac o' the Isles.
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