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Rick Santorum

post #1 of 275
Thread Starter 
In an recent article, Rick Santorum (U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania) was quoted saying,_"If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything."

He is being called on by the Democratic leadership to resign and is "under fire" by gay-rights activists.


Three questions:

[list=1][*]Is this news---or is it the media caressing an agenda?[*]Can somebody point out the flaws in his logic?[*]Why can't he have speak his mind without this new puritanism crucifying him?[/list=1]
post #2 of 275
1. What do you think?
2. I can't.
3. He's a Republican.

I can't see where he made some statement that equated homosexuality with those other things. He simply said, from what I take from it, that "if you say this, you say that...".

I didn't take some bashing, "homophobic" tone from it. But I'll guarantee you that it'll all play out as if there was.

And he'll be gone within 3 weeks.

post #3 of 275
to be clear, they want him to resign his post as chaiman of the senate republican conference, not his senate seat. and it's not just democrats banging on him, it's the log cabin's as well.
post #4 of 275
As the noted social critic Ice Cube so succinctly stated it, "Big Dicks in the Ass is bad fo yo health."
post #5 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
to be clear, they want him to resign his post as chaiman of the senate republican conference, not his senate seat. and it's not just democrats banging on him, it's the log cabin's as well.

I understand. They're not out for his job completely (not at this point). But still...

Just seems that this story will have "legs" because of certain factors that we're all aware of.



Meanwhile, why do I get the feeling that the writers of "Will & Grace" are hammering out a script based on this, as we speak?

post #6 of 275
What's wrong with sodomy, bigamy, and polygamy?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #7 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
I understand. They're not out for his job completely (not at this point). But still...

Just seems that this story will have "legs" because of certain factors that we're all aware of.



Meanwhile, why do I get the feeling that the writers of "Will & Grace" are hammering out a script based on this, as we speak?


actually there is a great deal of thought that this will do his career good.
post #8 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Santorum
"If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [gay] sex within your home.... You have the right to anything."

I can't believe that even the collective conservative intelligence here can't see the fallicy of this statement.

'If the Supreme Court says you can cook Key Lime Pie in your home, you can murder your neighbors.'

I might be missing something, but I think this guy's statement was just moronic. How is he not equating gay sex and incest?
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #9 of 275
Thread Starter 
The thing that bothers me is that the gay issue has been declared off-limits culturally---that it is gospel that homosexual sex is "good" or "ethical".

What really bothers me is that anyone who questions these "facts" about homosexuality is branded for hate speech or called worse. There is an implicit cultural standard being set here and people are being punished for thinking critically about it.

Not good.

When Christians and Muslims do it it is called intolerance and bigotry.
post #10 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
How is he not equating gay sex and incest?

Simple. Combine 1 part senator with 52 parts IDIOT.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #11 of 275
Quote:
Some Republican sources are quietly raising questions about the reporter who first quoted Santorum and who is continuing to report on the conflict it created._Her name is Lara Jakes Jordan. She is married to Jim Jordan,_a former DSCC official who now manages (John) Kerry's campaign.



If a prominent Democrat - Pelosi, Daschle, etc. - said something that could be seen as inflammatory, divisive, etc. and you guys found out that the person conducting the interview was the wife of Steve Forbes or Newt Gingrich or some other prominent right-winger, you'd cast a suspicious eye as well.

Let's just see how this pans out. Makes me wonder, especially in light of the above. She's obviously not a detached, know-nothing player.
post #12 of 275
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
I can't believe that even the collective conservative intelligence here can't see the fallicy of this statement.

'If the Supreme Court says you can cook Key Lime Pie in your home, you can murder your neighbors.'

I might be missing something, but I think this guy's statement was just moronic. How is he not equating gay sex and incest?


This flaming isn't going to help this thread bunge, you should simmer down and come back when you can stay on topic.

Seriously.

Please make your points without calling people names.

PLEASE
post #13 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
This flaming isn't going to help this thread bunge, you should simmer down and come back when you can stay on topic.

Seriously.

Please make your points without calling people names.

PLEASE

The statement is moronic. Bunge wasn't flaming anyone. You want a flame? YOU ARE A MORON FOR WHINING ABOUT NON-EXISTANT FLAMES.


Now, back on topic.

I ask again: What is wrong with sodomy, bigamy, and polygamy?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #14 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by BR
Simple. Combine 1 part senator with 52 parts IDIOT.



Gay sexual relations are widely practiced and can be as non-destructive as hetero relations. Since much of western culture is based on freedom and tolerence this is accepted as moral. "Good" probably goes to far. One man's meat is another man's poison.*

Freedom to question is tolerance. Freedom to assert things while ignoring the evidence is not.

Barto

*Hehe... funny how phrases take on certain connotations when placed in a certain context.
Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

rotate zmze pe vizspygmsr minus four
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Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

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post #15 of 275
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
How is he not equating gay sex and incest?


To answer a valid question:


Step back for a second and tell me, why, if two men can have sex, why can't they be brothers?
post #16 of 275
i don't understand, he admits he said it, he stands behind what he said, and he's not apologizing.
at least he still has his balls, he should hang on to them tightly.
even though i disagree with him, i hope he doesn't cave, i am getting sick of cosmetic apologies.
post #17 of 275
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BR
The statement is moronic. Bunge wasn't flaming anyone. You want a flame? YOU ARE A MORON FOR WHINING ABOUT NON-EXISTANT FLAMES.


Now, back on topic.

I ask again: What is wrong with sodomy, bigamy, and polygamy?


You are doing no better BR, you're derailing this thread!
post #18 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
How is he not equating heterosexual sex and incest?


To answer a valid question:

Step back for a second and tell me, why, if a man and woman can have sex, why can't they be siblings?
Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

rotate zmze pe vizspygmsr minus four
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Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

rotate zmze pe vizspygmsr minus four
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post #19 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
i don't understand, he admits he said it, he stands behind what he said, and he's not apologizing.
at least he still has his balls, he should hang on to them tightly.
even though i disagree with him, i hope he doesn't cave, i am getting sick of cosmetic apologies.

And I think that he's a Nosy Fvck that needs to mind his own god damn business and stay out of the bedrooms of the American People. Who the hell does he think he is trying to tell others what hole they aren't allowed to fill with their happy love meat?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #20 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
You are doing no better BR, you're derailing this thread!

You will notice I stayed on topic in the end. YOU ARE DERAILING IT BY SAYING I'M DERAILING IT.


Now, back on topic:

I ask a third time: What is wrong with sodomy, bigamy, or polygamy? I will further add I believe that consenting adults should be allowed to perform any of these acts.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #21 of 275
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BR
You will notice I stayed on topic in the end. YOU ARE DERAILING IT BY SAYING I'M DERAILING IT.


Now, back on topic:

I ask a third time: What is wrong with sodomy, bigamy, or polygamy? I will further add I believe that consenting adults should be allowed to perform any of these acts.


you forgot incest
post #22 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
you forgot incest

Are you going to answer my god damn question or keep derailing the thread?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #23 of 275
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BR
Are you going to answer my god damn question or keep derailing the thread?

incest, BR
post #24 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
incest, BR

CONSENTING ADULTS, ENA. NOT YOUR BUSINESS, ENA.

Is it sick and twisted? Yes. Is it your business? NO!

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #25 of 275
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BR
CONSENTING ADULTS, ENA. NOT YOUR BUSINESS, ENA.

Is it sick and twisted? Yes. Is it your business? NO!



Probably the biggest flaw of the perspective "none of anyone's business" is the assumption that we are disconnected from each other more than we are.

There are reasons that incest is illegal. To drive it into the dark corners where it belongs. It isn't possible to be neutral on the topic. It's either part of public policy or it's not.
post #26 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
To answer a valid question:

Step back for a second and tell me, why, if two men can have sex, why can't they be brothers?

Two men have can sex if they love each other or fancy each other. Two men, and two women, have been doing it to each other for tens of thousands of years. Many famous playwrights, artists, poets, painters, politicians and sportsmen have been doing it for countless generations. It's OK. No-one gets hurt. They want to do it. They do not fancy men, if they are women, or women, if they are men. That's just the way it is.

Good for them. Shag away. Have a shag for me. I'd rather not watch, but carry right on, don't let me stop you.

Now, ena, what the blue buggering hell do incest, adultery and homosexuality have in common, apart from the fact they all offend you equally? Explain to me please, because I don't see the connection and I don't see the faintest logical connection in your argument. I'm curious.
post #27 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
'If the Supreme Court says you can cook Key Lime Pie in your home, you can murder your neighbors.'

Sniff, sniff...I smell straw!

Someone want to explain to me how if I had said the above to others here, I would be hit with the dreaded "s" man accusation? Or, at the very least, "making up something so far out that it doesn't even relate to anything"?

post #28 of 275
"If you can have heterosexual sex in your home then you can also have homosexual sex and then you can also have bla bla bla."

Why doesn´t he continue the list in the other end? Besides it involves no argument whatsoever.

"If you can make a car go 10 miles on a gallon why cant you make it go 20, 30, one billion?"

He makes an argumental mistake by not using arguments.
post #29 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Sniff, sniff...I smell straw!

I´m sure it comes from your house
post #30 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
Probably the biggest flaw of the perspective "none of anyone's business" is the assumption that we are disconnected from each other more than we are.

There are reasons that incest is illegal. To drive it into the dark corners where it belongs. It isn't possible to be neutral on the topic. It's either part of public policy or it's not.

Again, nosy fvck, it's none of your damn business. Advocate against it all you want (I will too because I agree it is utterly repugnant) but what two (or more) consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home IS NONE OF YOUR GOD DAMN BUSINESS. End of story, fascist.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #31 of 275
Why are two men who have sex more likely to be siblings than a man and a women who have sex?

Don't see the connection.

Men and women have been having sex for thousands for years. No-one likes incest.

Men and men, and women and women, have been having sex for thousands of years. No-one likes incest.

Where is the argument?
post #32 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
There are reasons that incest is illegal.

And the reason is one person takes advantage of another persons weak position (NPI). ONLY THEN IS IT OUR BUISNESS. The society have to take care of the weak when the stronger use their weakness in an too unfavorable way. Insider trading is another not realted example.
post #33 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders the White
And the reason is one person takes advantage of another persons weak position (NPI). The society have to take care of the weak when the stronger use their weakness in an too unfavorable way. Insider trading is another not realted example.

Consenting adults.

People get taken advantage of every day. The society that tries to level the playing field creates a position called "The Handicapper General."







Read Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut Jr. if you don't get the reference.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #34 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Sniff, sniff...I smell straw!

Someone want to explain to me how if I had said the above to others here, I would be hit with the dreaded "s" man accusation? Or, at the very least, "making up something so far out that it doesn't even relate to anything"?


Bunge is using a perfectly valid rhetorical trope called reductio ad absurdium (or something) to point out that ena's argument is... not an argument. There is no connection between adultery and incest and homosexual sex.

The Supreme Court says you can have gay sex.

Why not adultery? Why not incest? Why not in green pyjamas? Why not speaking Portuguese and listening to Indian classical music?

Do you see?

ena is using a depressing rhetorical trope called 'a syllogism', which works like this:

Statement one: "I have green pyjamas."
Statement two: "I am a bigot."
Unconnected sleight-of-hand / stupid statement three: "All people with green pyjamas are bigots."
post #35 of 275
Cool. So he does it and it gets a cool Latin name and an air of prestige. I do it and I'm just being a ridiculous, flame-baiting ass. I see...



Figures...why did I even bother asking?
post #36 of 275
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah


Now, ena, what the blue buggering hell do incest, adultery and homosexuality have in common, apart from the fact they all offend you equally? Explain to me please, because I don't see the connection and I don't see the faintest logical connection in your argument. I'm curious.


Oh bother, this thread is hopelessly derailed---if I wanted to debate the virtues of sodomy, I would have started a thread.


Two things:

.....the long-standing animas against homosexuality and incest is due to the fact that they are both a rebellion against a social order which identifies itself with the uniqueness of heterosexual marriage and the institutional monogamy that it represents.

....For Muslims, Christians, and Jews there has been a long-standing prohibition against gender incest from the beginning.


Once you abandon either of those criterion, you are left using ambiguous statements like "no-body likes incest". Really? No body? People do it, obviously someone likes it---and some of it IS consensual---why can't they have their recognition/validation as well?

The problem is that your argument has no bottom, and if you are as clever as you pretend you can see that.


*lowers thread lifeboat and rows away from sinking thread*
post #37 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
Oh bother, this thread is hopelessly derailed---if I wanted to debate the virtues of sodomy, I would have started a thread.


Two things:

.....the long-standing animas against homosexuality and incest is due to the fact that they are both a rebellion against a social order which identifies itself with the uniqueness of heterosexual marriage and the institutional monogamy that it represents.

....For Muslims, Christians, and Jews there has been a long-standing prohibition against gender incest from the beginning.


Once you abandon either of those criterion, you are left using ambiguous statements like "no-body likes incest". Really? No body? People do it, obviously someone likes it---and some of it IS consensual---why can't they have their recognition/validation as well?

The problem is that your argument has no bottom, and if you are as clever as you pretend you can see that.


*lowers thread lifeboat and rows away from sinking thread*

TRANSLATION:
I DISAGREE WITH IT SO IT MUST BE STOPPED!

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #38 of 275
I should be working, but what the blazes.

BR asks "what's wrong with sodomy?" and I got to thinking.

I wanted to ask ena: is anal sex between two men worse than anal sex between a man and a woman? If it is, why? What's the difference?

I'm geniunely curious to know exactly what's so bad about sodomy.
post #39 of 275
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
I should be working, but what the blazes.

BR asks "what's wrong with sodomy?" and I got to thinking.

I wanted to ask ena: is anal sex between two men worse than anal sex between a man and a woman? If it is, why? What's the difference?

I'm geniunely curious to know exactly what's so bad about sodomy.

I already provided the answer. He disagrees with it so it must be stopped.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #40 of 275
*ena you always do this and it's extremely annoying.*
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