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post #81 of 163
4/28/03 at 4:52pm
RolandG

I understand what you're saying. Don't you have artists in Germany that don't have large followings in the U.S. or say, Japan? What I'm trying to say is that to be a better service in your country the Music Store needs to take those things into consideration I believe. Once it is up and running and proves to be successful (or not) in the U.S. I think you'll see your own store (just as you have a local Apple Store website). The other things you talk about are unrelated to this particular topic although I understand your frustration. Write a letter to Apple Germany perhaps?

Peter
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post #82 of 163
4/28/03 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally posted by MacsRGood4U
RolandG

I understand what you're saying. Don't you have artists in Germany that don't have large followings in the U.S. or say, Japan? What I'm trying to say is that to be a better service in your country the Music Store needs to take those things into consideration I believe. Once it is up and running and proves to be successful (or not) in the U.S. I think you'll see your own store (just as you have a local Apple Store website). The other things you talk about are unrelated to this particular topic although I understand your frustration. Write a letter to Apple Germany perhaps?

Peter

Have you ever written to Apple? I fear it has no effect.

And sometimes the German Apple Store - or the whole site for that matter - is not properly localized: lots of original english language paragraphs within an otherwise German page, text graphics and even whole pages. I haven't seen a serious advertising campaign here since the beginning of 2001. And Apple's refusal to open Apple Stores outside the US, not even in capitals and metrolos. No wonder marketshare is shrinking.

The point I was trying to make by listing all the other shortcomings in Apple's parctizes outside the US was to express my fear that we will never see this music service as we don't get the other goodies - altough they were quotably promised by Apple officials.

I think that localizing the music service is a good instrument to some extent - to support the local bands and artists you mentioned. But every user should be able to access the whole spectrum. So why not have a unified database with differing content at start-up?
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post #83 of 163
4/28/03 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally posted by RolandG
I think that localizing the music service is a good instrument to some extent - to support the local bands and artists you mentioned. But every user should be able to access the whole spectrum. So why not have a unified database with differing content at start-up?

A unified database would certainly be a good thing, but there are certainly going to be issues with licensing that would almost certainly stop this. licensing is a total bitch.
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post #84 of 163
4/28/03 at 6:25pm
I have to add this:

128 kbit aac is abominable. Persoanlly, I think the music should be distributed 256 kbit for acceptable audio quality. Apple should be using aacPlus too. I'm not sure what the max bitrate for aacPlus, but I think somewhere in the vicinity of 160 kbit aacPlus would be good enough. If we're expected to buy tracks for $1 each, they should be at least somewhat close to the CD quality we're used too.

~160 kbit VBR aacPlus or ~256 kbit VBR aac please.
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post #85 of 163
4/28/03 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally posted by MGG
No matter how hard I try I can't seem to log in. I can't reach the music store customer support either. Can anyone help?

I seem to be in the same situation, I must've tried 100 times to login already, but it keeps hanging on step 3 of the review process saying "there was an error in processing your request. please try again later."

Bah.
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post #86 of 163
4/28/03 at 6:45pm
I just downloaded an Buddy DeFranco Jazz Clarinet album. The quality is astounding. Way better then any MP3 recording I have of Clarinet playing. Plus instead of 18.99 on Amazon the album was 9.99. What a deal.
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post #87 of 163
4/28/03 at 7:00pm
Heh, finally got this Apple Music account signed in. I think it's cause I wasn't using an e-mail name for my account, I was just using my apple id. So I changed to to an e-mail, and it worked. lol
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post #88 of 163
4/28/03 at 7:33pm
Thread Starter 
So... if I want to download say... "Tales From Topographic Oceans" by Yes, can I download the three songs that make up the entire double album for $2.97? How does this work, $0.99 per song when songs can be 25 minutes long?
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post #89 of 163
4/28/03 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
So... if I want to download say... "Tales From Topographic Oceans" by Yes, can I download the three songs that make up the entire double album for $2.97? How does this work, $0.99 per song when songs can be 25 minutes long?

i didn't check that one specifically but that was my thought with bitches brew, a two cd set with four songs could be had for $3.97
but they just had the one tune.

other cases like that i noticed would leave whole tracks off individually but let you have them if you bought the whole album.

topo isn't listed neither is close to the edge, but you can get 18 minutes of close to the edge from yessongs for 99¢
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post #90 of 163
4/28/03 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by RolandG
Have you ever written to Apple? I fear it has no effect.

One time we (at work) wrote to Apple.

We actually wrote to sjobs@apple.com, complaining that our brand new Xserve was crashing every few hours.

Within two days we got a call from someone *very* high up at Apple, and they eventually replaced the Xserve and threw in an extra Gig of ram for our trouble.

Now, I'm not saying that everyone should email steve jobs with every complaint, but in that case, at least, it worked.
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post #91 of 163
4/28/03 at 7:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
you can get 18 minutes of close to the edge from yessongs for 99¢

Already have them all on CD, but this is a fantastic deal.
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post #92 of 163
4/28/03 at 8:13pm
by Eugene
Quote:
128 kbit aac is abominable. Persoanlly, I think the music should be distributed 256 kbit for acceptable audio quality. Apple should be using aacPlus too. I'm not sure what the max bitrate for aacPlus, but I think somewhere in the vicinity of 160 kbit aacPlus would be good enough. If we're expected to buy tracks for $1 each, they should be at least somewhat close to the CD quality we're used too.

I think there is good reason for this initially. Take a 128 bit aac and turn it into an mp3 and it probably doesn't sound that great. I would bet the record companies like this idea. There is always compromise in every decision. This deal let's us burn it as many time as we want. Can use it on as many iPods as we want and with rendezvous can listen to our playlists on multiple computers. Can store songs on as many as 3 computers. To me it is a great deal.
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post #93 of 163
4/28/03 at 8:19pm
I've been doing a little browsing and I think this whole thing is great, but I think they need some quality control...

In just a few minutes, I noticed an entire album where the songs were all listed as 3 minutes in length...they were not of course (false advertising?) and wrong album release dates...
What gives?
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post #94 of 163
4/28/03 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally posted by JohnHenry
I've been doing a little browsing and I think this whole thing is great, but I think they need some quality control...

In just a few minutes, I noticed an entire album where the songs were all listed as 3 minutes in length...they were not of course (false advertising?) and wrong album release dates...
What gives?

yeah, i've noticed a few glitches as well. i think the album date thing is all screwy because that's the CD issue date...

i also wish things were properly alphabetized...
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post #95 of 163
4/28/03 at 8:33pm
Here are some plots from a spectrum analyzer of the song Band of Brothers Requiem from the soundtrack...

Cyan = AIFF
Red = 100 kbps mp3pro
Blue = 128 kbps CBR LAME mp3
Magenta = 128 kbps CBR aac



As you can see, aac fairs much better than mp3 at 128 kbps, but neither have any tonal presence above 16 kHz. Surprisingly, the mp3pro file goes all the way to 22 kHz, though the entire curve is quite a bit more jumpy than regular mp3 and aac.

At 192-256 kbit:


Again, the cyan represents the source AIFF. The blue is a VBR LAME mp3 that averages ~192 kbps. The magenta curve is 256 CBR aac. Again, no response past 16 kHz.
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post #96 of 163
4/28/03 at 8:55pm
I think this store is overall, INSANELY great.

A couple of little problems, though:

No Beatles.
No Rolling Stones.


I wonder if any library could have holes that gape wider than those?

Mandricard
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post #97 of 163
4/28/03 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mandricard
I think this store is overall, INSANELY great.

A couple of little problems, though:

No Beatles.
No Rolling Stones.


I wonder if any library could have holes that gape wider than those?

Mandricard
AppleOutsider

well, apparently the remaining Beatles and the Stones are very apprehensive about online distribution. that's why Steve is meeting with them personally (according to the Fortune article).

which just made me think of something... since Michael Jackson owns most of the Beatle's right, would SJ need to meet with him? imagine the clash of RDFs!!!
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post #98 of 163
4/28/03 at 9:07pm
Two observations which may have been posted already: if for some reason a download doesn't finish, it'll ask you if you want to finish it.

And

you can share music with other users on the same computer without having to worry about setting anything else up. I was really worried about how this one would work out (based on some of my experiences with user -vs- computer licenses when Omni wasn't giving you a choice). It looks like they made the right decision. Go apple!
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post #99 of 163
4/28/03 at 9:11pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mandricard
I think this store is overall, INSANELY great.

A couple of little problems, though:

No Beatles.
No Rolling Stones.


I wonder if any library could have holes that gape wider than those?

Mandricard
AppleOutsider

well, should have those albums already!
seriously though, where's my .mac membership discount in all this? oh well...but can you believe $.65 goes to the record companies! maybe that's not enough for michael jackson to release the beatles or for the stones...
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post #100 of 163
4/28/03 at 9:16pm
Did anyone happen to see SJ on CNBC this afternoon? If so how was the interview???

Dangerous. Joe Dangerous.
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post #101 of 163
4/28/03 at 9:18pm
if was ok. the gal that interview was a bit of a dolt.

there have been much better CNBC interviews with SJ...

CNN was the same. Miles obrien was a bit doltier
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post #102 of 163
4/28/03 at 9:23pm
Quote:
Originally posted by pesi

which just made me think of something... since Michael Jackson owns most of the Beatle's right, would SJ need to meet with him? imagine the clash of RDFs!!!

michael only owns publishing rights, (and now just half of that) which are mechanical.
performance rights fluctuate from basic to astronomical, in fact when paul resigned to capitol way back when, he renegotiated his beatle take, (meaning if you want to resign me you have to give me more for the beatles catalog) he got more than the others for every sale.
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post #103 of 163
4/28/03 at 9:38pm
I live in Mexico, just two and a half hours away from the US (if you travel on a car). Yet, I'm sitting here, credit card in my wallet, iTunes 4 all set, yet I can't buy a damn song.

I'm not very optimistic about the service for latin america. The mexican version of the Apple Store (www.apple.com/mx) doesn't even exist. Instead, it contains a link that helps you find an Apple authorized dealer near you, that's it.

I wish there could be way to get around this roadblock and "fool" iTunes/Music server into letting anyone with money buy songs off the service.

If Apple doesn't give me what I want, I'll just have to continue buying whole albums at my local store and ocassionaly using Kazaa on VPC.
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post #104 of 163
4/28/03 at 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
I have to add this:

128 kbit aac is abominable. Persoanlly, I think the music should be distributed 256 kbit for acceptable audio quality. Apple should be using aacPlus too. I'm not sure what the max bitrate for aacPlus, but I think somewhere in the vicinity of 160 kbit aacPlus would be good enough. If we're expected to buy tracks for $1 each, they should be at least somewhat close to the CD quality we're used too.

~160 kbit VBR aacPlus or ~256 kbit VBR aac please.



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post #105 of 163
4/28/03 at 9:57pm
For everyone outside the U.S. that's pissed off because you can't download from iTunes yet-consider yourselves lucky, at first I was pissed until I realized I would have already maxed out my CC and I'm not even that impressed by the selection. No Beastie Boys? Boooo! Paul's Boutique was first on my list of downloads. Overall, this thing is pretty kick-ass. Hopefully apple is lining up a slew of indie labels to add to the roster. Without labels like Matador, Mute, 4AD and the like, apple won't be getting much of my cash when they let canucks start buying. I really don't want to complain too much-iTunes kicks ass.
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post #106 of 163
4/28/03 at 10:31pm
Introducing the new 30Gb iPod only $7924.00


$499.00+7500 songs *$0.99 per song= $7924.00
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post #107 of 163
4/28/03 at 10:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by coreysme
Introducing the new 30Gb iPod only $7924.00


$499.00+7500 songs *$0.99 per song= $7924.00

Introducing the new Sony Discman only $10,550

$50 + $10, 500 (700 CDs x $15 ea) = $10,550

seriously though, 7500 songs is not a whole lot for someone who's been buying music for a while. my iTunes collection is around 2500 songs (all legal, btw), and i would consider my CD collection to be quite small.
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post #108 of 163
4/28/03 at 10:48pm
I'm cool with the new service. I'll use it on occasion. I'm sure Apple will make some cash, thus making the AAPL holders happy. Here is how I heard the $.99 will be distributed:

$.35 for Apple per song.
$.63 for the record company per song.
$.01 for the artist per song.

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post #109 of 163
4/28/03 at 10:55pm
There's a parallel between Apple's music service and Phish's live download service. The same "Why should I pay for it if I can get it for free?" argument applies there, too. If only Apple would take a cue from Phish and offer people two tiers of service?higher-quality audio at a higher price, plus lower-quality mp3s on the cheap. Plus printable CD art. The major difference between the two is that Phish still encourages fans to circulate homemade recordings of live shows. The band and Elektra know that even the nicest-sounding audience recording isn't going to top the sound quality of a soundboard > Powerbook > .shn transfer, and an average turnaround time of 48 hours is hard to beat.

From the Live Phish FAQ

Why should I pay when I can get an audience recording for free?

Primary advantages of Live Phish Downloads over audience recordings are: pristine soundboard quality, faster and more reliable downloading and quick turnaround. In most cases, shows will be available for download within forty-eight hours. Each show is carefully indexed and comes with printable booklets (containing liner notes), tray inlays and CD labels. The files are served by a robust delivery network capable of serving thousands of simultaneous downloads, ensuring the fastest and most reliable download experience for the user. We also offer customer service via email to help sort out any problems that may arise during the download process. That being said, audience taping has always been and will continue to be a defining element of the Phish experience.

Live Phish Downloads offers an alternative, convenient route to obtaining live recordings and is in no way intended to supplant or undermine the taping community.
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post #110 of 163
4/29/03 at 12:03am
I think some one should do an honest poll. I`m willing to be that as high as 90% of the people bitching about the price do not come by all of their music legally. Personally I love it.(Though I`m sure their are some people who get all of their music leagally and still think its to pricey)

As been said before how often do you buy a CD and you love every song on it? Sure there are times. But I would much rather have a few MP3`s from that CD I like already to throw on my iPod or CD, and on top of that I don`t have a huge collection of half burned out CD`s floating around my room.

Just my 2¢
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post #111 of 163
4/29/03 at 12:46am
Yeah, a lot of the CDs I buy for one or two good songs. The recording industry likes that but they'll have to learn that they can make money by doing other things, not just ripping people off with price-setting and the like.

Anyway, I was disappointed that Metallica has nothing in the music service, but that no-talent ass-clown Michael Bolten gets plenty of space... and I really do think he's a no-talent ass-clown, I'm not just quoting Office Space (although I do that a lot, there have been a number of Office Space references recently).

EDIT: Oh yeah, and no Beatles... Michael Bolton w/o Beatles is a disgrace... at least there's BNL.
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post #112 of 163
4/29/03 at 12:56am
Browsed a bit and frankly I´m disappointed.

Did a check up against my iTunes library and only one out of four songs are present. Those bands that are perhaps only got one album ("Their first album on a major label and the last one before they split up")
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post #113 of 163
4/29/03 at 1:08am
I was disappointed that Metallica has nothing in the music service, but that no-talent ass-clown Michael Bolten gets plenty of space...

I've always thought it was so strange that "We're all about the fans, f**k the money hungry suits" Metallica came out so strong during the Napster brouhaha while many obviously corporate artists kept a lower profile.

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post #114 of 163
4/29/03 at 1:31am
Yeah, I was thinking about the Napster case when my Metallica search turned up nothing. There's a few things in there I might like, but not a whole lot.
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post #115 of 163
4/29/03 at 1:35am
Quote:
Originally posted by serrano


Audiophiles wil never be satisfied, it's part of the game.

One hardly needs to be an audiophile to realize 16000 Hz through 22000 Hz are missing in a song. Look at the graphs I plotted. There's quite a bit of data missing. All I want is near CD quality...you know, near what we used to get the old fashioned way? $1 a song is pretty close to retail. I just want a nice pristine copy...is that too much to ask?
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post #116 of 163
4/29/03 at 1:48am
But the reason they're filtered out is because most* people cannot tell the difference. Personally, I can't.







*if you can tell the difference, then you're probably an audiophile
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post #117 of 163
4/29/03 at 1:53am
Quote:
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno
But the reason they're filtered out is because most* people cannot tell the difference. Personally, I can't.







*if you can tell the difference, then you're probably an audiophile

precisely. it's generally accepted that human hearing drops off at aroun 17 kHz
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post #118 of 163
4/29/03 at 2:17am
Data Compression how fun....

I think the site is clean and well organized but I will not spend money on data-compressed garbage. Sure I listen to MP3's etc after I have a good copy I can play on my home system that is at least wav file quality. I am willing to pay $.99 per song if it were wav format but this data compressed garbage dream on apple.

I will gladly drive to my Virgin Records and enjoy the real store and buy real CD's

If apple would have set this thing up where one could "choose" imagine that..... "choose" the format and keep the $.99 per song price I would use the site to make purchases very very often.

Apple has a dumbed down customer in mind however.

Reminds me of windows. I thought Apple was all about Quality.

Data-compressed files are not worthy of the retail price apple is asking. Period.

Dumbed down kids feel free to prove me wrong. Apple depends on you.

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post #119 of 163
4/29/03 at 2:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by pesi
precisely. it's generally accepted that human hearing drops off at aroun 17 kHz

I've read that too. I guess I'm a mutant.
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post #120 of 163
4/29/03 at 2:44am
Wow what did you do to the real Fellowship

I agree. I listen to MP3s all the time. But when I copy CDs I do it 1:1 and THEN make a MP3 copy for my iBook*.

The new service gives me the ability to get just that song that have been inside my head and I just found out what was instead of going to the shop (or gemm, ebay or amazon) the next morning. The convienience is a plus, a huge plus. But the only one (plus of course the price. But that doesn´t really matter that much since I copy the CD if I can´t afford it).

Now the problem is that the Store doesn´t have those song described above. They are seldom from the big five, at least not those I listen to.

*Copying music is legal here as long as you do it yourself and it is from an original. CDs borrowed by friends or the library and your own computer and you can burn away.
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