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post #401 of 771
As a Lightwave user, Power would be very welcomed, so I hope apple has a quad line up this year. I'm currently renderng on a 400 mhz G4 tower and its pretty painful. Apple already has pretty much the whole movie, sound and graphic design industry so a quad set up would be very applealing to break into the 3d market. Lets hope they announce something special. Theres rumours apple have been trying to get into the CAD market so they must have something that could handle all the 3d stuff. Plus Final Cut Pro and Shake require alot of power. I wouldnt think apple would release a new set of machines just to break even with the pc world but rather push it up a gear and let the rest play catch up.

In response to pscates, I think apple will carry on marketing their machines as the user friendly computer. Stuff like 64 bit power and dual 1.8 ghz power wont work on the public.. A simple "this is THE most powerul computer in the world" would make a much bigger impact to the public.

Just imagine an imac advert in the not so distant future. Fully equiped with a 970 and they have children in the ad listening to music and making their own movies, where as the rest of us are using them for network render farms, servers, high end CAD, music production and Graphic design....Quality Nice!
post #402 of 771
Quote:
Just imagine an imac advert in the not so distant future. Fully equiped with a 970 and they have children in the ad listening to music and making their own movies, where as the rest of us are using them for network render farms, servers, high end CAD, music production and Graphic design....Quality Nice!

Don't hold your breath on that idea. Apple (read: SJ) and their ad agency Chiat Day still don't get it. Apple's ads seem always to be preaching to the already converted. The ads are becoming predictible and they remain cute but have little impact on increasing market share. I don't believe Apple has ever run an ad where they actually showed what the product can do. Never have shown what you suggest. No hard-sell on all the features.
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post #403 of 771
Exactly. Even stuff like "Baby Jack" (which had SO much potential) was, in the end, quite flat and ineffective. They focused on the emotion and "sweet/cute" factor and showed only a fleeting glimpse of the new Dad fiddling with an iBook and doing SOMETHING with the photos...



Yeah, and...?



Yes, all of us knew that he was importing them into iPhoto by just plugging in the camera, making a new album of baby photos, making a slideshow, putting music to it, etc.

But that's not really the issue, is it? WE know already. I guarantee you that no non-Mac user out there truly got that or was motivated to do anything about it. It was just a sappy heartstring tugger for the already-converted Mac-using crowd.

And that's about ALL they've been doing. And guess what? That isn't going to do much to cause any massive switching or migration. Vague, understated and esoteric only goes so far. And even though that's my preferred method of advertising, marketing and generally going through life, fact is you can almost be TOO much that way when dealing with a huge population who knows little or nothing about your products or company.

I really don't think they do ads that appeal to anyone but us loyal, "already getting it" Mac users. Any switching (or potential switching and questions asked by friends, family members and co-workers) has been brought on by ME and MY "evangelism" or enthusiasm about this stuff.

Getting tired of carrying their water. They've got a bigger budget than I do and I'm doing all the work!



But seriously, any switchers I've been responsible for have come about it from me and me alone. No help or prodding from Apple, I promise you that.

A buddy of mine who LIVES in Atlanta (in the Buckhead area, no less!) had NO IDEA that a) Apple had retail stores and b) there was one not only in his town, but practically IN HIS NEIGHBORHOOD, at the Lenox Mall not four miles from his apartment!



Does ANYONE besides the current Mac-using faithful even know when/where a new Apple store is opening? From what I see, you pretty much have to read maccental or one of the other Mac news sites to know about one. Never seen an ad for it (print, radio or video). I imagine that in these various malls, some curious shoppers might walk by and are intrigued by the 17" PowerBook or iPod spinning in the window and MIGHT go in to see what's what. But what about the person who's thoroughly disgusted with his PC and might like to look at alternatives? Would he even know?

The fact that my Atlanta buddy, who is fairly tuned-in, Internet-savvy, young enough to care about these sorts of things, is an "out and about" kinda guy had NO IDEA there was an Apple store in his own city pretty much answers this for me.

I dearly, truly love Apple. The hardware, the OS, the software. The whole vibe. I've never been more proud and happy to be a Mac user as I have these past couple of years. I'll always be one and I believe in what they do, how they do it and why.

But, having said all that, I can't think of another major company with as piss-poor and completely limp marketing "approach" as Apple's. Most companies would give their left eye and sell their soul to the devil himself to have what Apple has in the way of products, quality, customer loyalty, etc. And here Apple is with all that and constantly misfires (or doesn't really even seem to try that hard) at bringing new folks in.

Everyone creamed their jeans over the whole "Switch" thing, but, like all their other stuff in that arena, it was kinda quiet, kinda vague, kinda cutesy. And it went away. It was around for half a year or so? Maybe 9 months? Is that it? Is that all we get?

All I know is that if they just got a clue in this one area, they'd be unstoppable. Think how wound up and excited WE get at the prospect of new iPods, new LCDs, new PowerBooks, etc. Imagine if everyone (okay, not everyone...but A LOT more) was that way?

That would be the one, single thing I'd change or tackle if I was ever given the ability to. I'd make it to where you couldn't get through a day without seeing an Apple billboard, magazine ad, commercial, etc. And they'd have style and coolness, yes. BUT there would also be enough meat and substance that the average Joe and non-Mac-using person couldn't help but go "Holy crap...I'm GETTING a Mac!!!"
post #404 of 771
A very small, concrete example...since we all know that people in general (and consumers and potential buyers especially) respond to visual stimulation and actually SEEING stuff, consider this:

Imagine how much MORE effective the Switch campaign would've/could've been if, instead of wasting 30-seconds simply showing schlumpy-looking people gesturing and looking off camera or stumbling over their words (who CARES?!?) and recounting their various "why I got a Mac" stories, how about 3-5 seconds of the people shown (at the very beginning), THEN 20 seconds of footage (same sound-stage/studio, same background, same music with their continuing voiceover/story) of them actually SHOWING what they're talking about? And in the case of that vet or that stoned teen, just simply showing off and holding the product?

Nothing would be changed or deleted from the original, well-known Switch ads. You'd simply be adding a whole new component, shown while the voiceover continues. And yeah, you could switch back to the person with quick cuts throughout. We've seen that done elsewhere too. So PLEASE don't give me any silliness about how "the Switch ads would've failed if they didn't show the person for 30 seconds straight! That was the whole point...it COULDN'T show hardware or anything substantive because...".

Bullshit.



I find it simply amazing that a company totally known, respected and revered for their eye-popping hardware design (didn't Ives just win a big award?) showed absolutely NOTHING in the entire Switch campaign! What corporate/marketing department bonehead thought that "wasn't a good idea" and might not pique some additional interest?



I would've shown every one of those switchers holding (or in the case of the towers and iMacs, standing next to) their Mac of choice. Gorgeous "beauty shots" and camera work all around while the story was going on. How, exactly, could that hurt?



Then, you could show the person again during the last few seconds, for the tag ("I'm Paul, and I'm a nuclear scientist..." or whatever).

But during that entire middle 2/3 of the ad, you'd a) see the hardware b) see the hardware DOING something c) see the hardware interacting with an iPod, a digital camera, a camcorder, etc.

That chick that saved Christmas could've been telling her neat little story as she stood beside a white platform table with a sexy PowerBook on it and, while talking, plugged in her camera and show iPhoto launching and importing the photos. With quick cuts and editing, you could splice in further footage of slideshows, zoom in on the Print, Purchase, Share, E-mail, etc. buttons, etc. In just a couple of seconds, you get a) her story and b) the visual reinforcement of "wow, you just plug your camera in and it goes to work...cool!" AND c) "hmm...that little iPhoto program seems to let you order prints, make a slideshow, create a book, e-mail directly, etc. That's pretty sweet! I wonder what ELSE it does...". And you give the PowerBook (or G4 or iMac or iBook) some good face time. As well as the appropriate, talked-about iApp or OS X feature.

Everyone and everything wins. Real people, real stories, real hardware, real software. A Switch commerical done right, in other words.



They didn't do that and all you got was a cute story about "saving Christmas". But no one - outside of the current user base - knows how she went about it. That's just sad, and a huge lapse in judgement and marketing IMO.

Still have the same Switch ads with the same lovable characters telling the same popular stories. BUT you'd add some meat and potatos to the mix. They still get face time...just not 30 seconds. It isn't necessary and it's a waste of screen time, considering what ELSE could have been shown.

Even if it was just that goofy teenager cradling her iBook and cut in shots of it from various angles. Maybe have her opening it up to show the hinge or something.

ANYTHING!

post #405 of 771
The current iTunes Store ads are terrible. Why not show a person downloading a song to their iMac, transferring it to their iPod and THEN be happy and sing along. What are these current ads supposed to be selling? They're very narcissistic (read: SJ) in my opinion. I don't care if a teenager can sing along with an unheard song.

The iMac is a great FAMILY machine. Gee, what an idea... show a family using it. I think they did something like this when SJ was not at the helm. You know, when they had a large market share. Is there a pattern here?
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post #406 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by silvergun

Just imagine an imac advert in the not so distant future. Fully equiped with a 970 and they have children in the ad listening to music and making their own movies, where as the rest of us are using them for network render farms, servers, high end CAD, music production and Graphic design....Quality Nice!

Hm......that's a bit too Dell or HP
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post #407 of 771
Quote:
I can't think of another major company with as piss-poor and completely limp marketing "approach" as Apple's.

Me-owwww. :P

Hmmm. Mr. Cates. Excellent post. Have you thought of e:mailing it onto Apple's feedback tab? Or better, directly to Steve Jobs himself?

I feel you made a very good point about how devoid the 'Switch' ad's were.

Apple have the looks, the os, the killer apps...the iPod...the music store...and yet...do you see any of it and HOW it can be USED in TV adverts? Ordering a 'print book' (STILL ONLY US!!!) from an iPhoto album? Pure gold. But Apple haven't told anybody but the converted about it.

Frustrating. Very frustrating. We wonder why M$ shafted Apple in the OS wars? Well, M$ ripped it off...but they told everybody about 'their' great Windows 95 and how you had to have it...even UK news prime-time featured the M$ ad' blitz. It was 'news' (not to Apple users...who'd had a gui for years...) But M$ spend hundreds of millions getting 'it out there'. I heard Apple didn't realise they even had an OS until around the time Gil Amelio got onboard. And that only started really going somewhere when Steve got back.

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #408 of 771
Lemon I totally agree with you. A few years ago when micro$oft released Windows XP, it was all over the news here in the UK and you couldn't turn a tv channel without them showin its "brand new easy to use interface". They had people from microsoft talking about how they built it from scratch to bring a new user friendly computer to your home. It was sickening
post #409 of 771
Um in New York there were ads all over the place on buses on billboards and on payphones when the apple store was opening.

i think waht apple should do is take some of that 4 billion dollars and blanket the whole place with better ads.
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You Can Say I'm a dreamer
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------- John Lennon
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post #410 of 771
Los Angle-ese was also covered with ads.

it was great.

(bring back the snail ads!)
post #411 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardf12
(bring back the snail ads!)

According to a late night PowerJack post on Spymac, a new snail add may be coming back. I kind of liked the steamroller ad myself.
Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
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Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
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post #412 of 771
<homer>Wooo Hoo!</homer>

thanks.

which thread? (if you still have it cached)
post #413 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaktai
According to a late night PowerJack post on Spymac, a new snail add may be coming back. I kind of liked the steamroller ad myself.

Powerjack knows nothing! Besides ads like the snail ad are illegal in Europe - Apple should really start to advertise in Europe, so we need some ads that work over here too.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #414 of 771
so make it an american snail.

post #415 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by O and A
Um in New York there were ads all over the place on buses on billboards and on payphones when the apple store was opening.

Um, contrary to popular opinion, New York ain't the center of the universe, OR the only city out there.



I get people from NYC, LA and Eugene from the Bay Area telling me that I'm way off and that there is indeed a presence there. To which I say "well, no shit...I kinda EXPECT that".

\

NYC and L.A. always have everything - rightfully so - and the Bay Area is very forward-moving and digital/tech-oriented...plus, it's practically Apple's backyard, so I'd expect bus and billboard ads in Frisco and San Jose, as well as L.A. and New York.

Unfortunately, not every current or potential Mac user or customer is clustered in those three important cities, so...



Citing NYC having bus and billboard ads proves next to nothing, and in no way negates anything I spoke of earlier. I'd expect a place like NYC (and L.A. and NoCal) to have some of this stuff.
post #416 of 771
Quote:
a new snail add may be coming back. I kind of liked the steamroller ad myself.

2nded and 3rded.

Tank. Forwards. (Ker-rumple. Pieces of Pantium 4 subsumed.) Atop the tank, a stunning new Apple tower. Red Hal laser blinks into the camera... Hal voice:

'I'm sorry, Dave...you were attempting to erode my market share...I can't let you do that...'

'The New PowerMac 970.'

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #417 of 771
What a lot of folks are forgetting is the "big" dollars necessary to launch the kind of advertising campaigns you are talking about. Believe it or not, Apple is very smart about how they utilize what budgets they have. Apple is still in business because of good money management and innovative products.

Now, if 970 PowerMacs do become reality (I believe they will) and if they live up to half the hype (hopefully they will), then Apple will finally have a product that will be worth increased advertising budgets and aggressive campaigns such as these.

You don't just burn up reserves on marketing gambles, unless you are damned sure you have a killer product. While OS-X, the iMac, Music Store, Powerbooks and retail stores have all been nice but not of them have been a true "killer product" worth the big gamble...yet. However the combination of PowerMac 970 and Panther, just might be. We will have to see what we actually get.
Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
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Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
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post #418 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
[B 'I'm sorry, Dave...you were attempting to erode my market share...I can't let you do that...'

'The New PowerMac 970.'

Lemon Bon Bon [/B]

No that's "I'm sorry, Bill..." My name is Dave and I use Macs. Hal was just programmed with the wrong OS.
Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
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post #419 of 771
pscates,

I wasn't being critical, just trying to subtly point out that Apple maybe wants both parts of the Mac experience to be exemplary (H/W and S/W) before seriously hyping things via advertising.

The example I spoke of was meant to support what you were saying, that Apple has to have a serious ad campaign to left the "Joe Shmoe" people out there know about the capabilities of the Mac. If the ads are good enough (and target things that corporations/schools require), we may even see a slow turn-around in the enterprise market and schools. You're right, most don't care about the specifics of the processor, or why the architecture is fast or slow. They do want alot of "bang for their $$" though, and an efficiently coded OS is only half the battle (just as blindly fast H/W is only half the battle).

The WWDC should be a key to to both sides of the battle, particularly because the developers are going to have a new processor (64 bit capable of running 32 bit without degradation of performance) and an OS that will utilize that new processor. They need to be made aware of all the specifics that the everyday "Joe Shmoe" doesn't want to deal with, so that they can create the apps and utilities that those same Joe Shmoes want to use and will buy Mac instead of PeeCee.

Okies, I get off the "soap box" now. I know I was preaching to the choir, but ya never know when a boarder line switcher may mistakenly visit.
post #420 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaktai
What a lot of folks are forgetting is the "big" dollars necessary to launch the kind of advertising campaigns you are talking about. Believe it or not, Apple is very smart about how they utilize what budgets they have. Apple is still in business because of good money management and innovative products.

Now, if 970 PowerMacs do become reality (I believe they will) and if they live up to half the hype (hopefully they will), then Apple will finally have a product that will be worth increased advertising budgets and aggressive campaigns such as these.

You don't just burn up reserves on marketing gambles, unless you are damned sure you have a killer product. While OS-X, the iMac, Music Store, Powerbooks and retail stores have all been nice but not of them have been a true "killer product" worth the big gamble...yet. However the combination of PowerMac 970 and Panther, just might be. We will have to see what we actually get.

I couldn't disagree more.

The ONLY people drooling, waiting and spazzing over the 970 are certain chunk of the Mac using population: high-end "pro" types, animators, 3D people, renderers, high-end graphics, etc. As well they should.

But in much the way that NYC and L.A. aren't the center of the universe (see my post above), THOSE types of users don't make up all of the Mac-using public.

The iMac wasn't/isn't a "killer product"? On what planet?



It doesn't get much "killer" than that. And OS X, the iPod, the iApps, the iBook and PowerBook, AirPort, .mac and the iTunes music store are only currently "half cool" because they don't have a 970 under the hood?

Give me a break.

Apple could sell ALL their consumer-level stuff with a G3 and nobody would complain or notice if they just marketed it right and made all the soccer moms and grandparents with digital cameras and mp3 collecting students think that they couldn't live without a Mac.

Yes, the 970 will probably be really cool. But it ISN'T going to be on the iMacs, eMacs and iBooks - at least not initially - so all this talk about "970 and Panther" isn't going to mean a damn thing - or change anything - when it comes to your typical Joe Public, consumer-level buyers.

Soccer moms and grannys and students aren't going to be buying the new 970s as much as they will the iStuff. So we just ignore them, let them slip through the cracks and remain ignorant about Apple until this much-hyped 970 arrives for the pros?

I don't get it. What's the connection?



Several of you here act like the day the 970 is announced, Apple's marketshare is going to jump to 15% overnight and that all these Dell- and Gateway-using soccer moms and teens are going to immediately come over because of one damn new chip.

Consumers don't give a crap about all this. My Mom, sister, all their friends, all my PC-using friends and co-workers, etc. wouldn't know a 970 from a BR5-49 and a G3 from a V8. All they want is to be able to get on their computer and everything just WORKS...browser connects online, they get their e-mail, they plug in their digital cameras and things download, they can organize all their legal and swiped mp3 files, they can attach silly "America's Funniest..." mpgs in e-mails, they can visit eBay and amazon.com and can write a letter or recipe, do a google search, make a contact list, plan their day/week/month ahead of time, chat with friends, print photos of the grandkids, do their taxes and bills, etc.

A Mac does all that stuff WONDERFULLY...and without a 970 in sight.



So again, what's the connection between that particular group of users and this 970/Panther combination? There isn't.

I'm really, really convinced (even more so, as of late) that the majority of people are simply NOT into specs and numbers as much as many of us would like to imagine. They want reasonable speed and they get it. But I think most just want well-thought-out, smart and functional apps and an OS. It's funny to think: just four years ago, every magazine, poster, book, etc. produced on a Mac was done with G3 or below machines.

So I think consumer-level hobbyists are MORE than served by 900MHz G3s and 1GHz-plus G4s in the various iProducts.

The only thing I'm looking forward to the 970 for is that perhaps it'll finally shut up some of the more vocal "Apple sucks and I'm going to leave the platform..." bitchers and whiners.



The 970, cool as it may be, won't have ANY affect on the consumer buyers and people like that who MIGHT make up a larger chunk of the computer-using public, as opposed to career/tech-specific fields as design, animation, 3D.

There are more surfers, e-mailers, music swappers, digital photo hobbyists, recipe collectors, website family photo album builders, etc. out there than designers and gearheads.

But it'll be cool when it does come out because I guess everything will kinda skootch up proportion-wise on the Mac side, so that'll be nice!



I'm all for speed and power and "cutting edge technology". But for the majority of users, they'll be more than happy and served with Apple's current offerings. Apple just needs to do a better job of letting these people know this stuff EXISTS.
post #421 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by MacJedai
pscates,

I wasn't being critical, just trying to subtly point out that Apple maybe wants both parts of the Mac experience to be exemplary (H/W and S/W) before seriously hyping things via advertising.

No, I know. That's cool. I just think we have a narrow field of focus sometimes: it's only about the big hubs and it's only about the creative professionals.

It's not.

post #422 of 771
Just finished catching up on the remainder of this thread. I whole hearted agree, Apple needs the advertising, but spend the $$ effectively, it would be better to have the Full-Spectrum (both H/W and S/W), and especially better "Switcher" Ads as pscates talked about. LBB good suggestion that pscates should let SJ have an earful.

In regards to the old ads, you guys made me dig out the old "mov" files I had of them. Not sure if they're available from Apple anymore. Turns out that I have the snail ad, the steamroller ad, the toasted ad, a Hal9000 ad, the un-pc ad, the shootout ad, and the original think different one.

If they're no longer available from Apple, and somebody wants copies of them, PM me.

I like the snail, the steamroller, and HAL9000.
post #423 of 771
No, I won't be giving Jobs an earful. He might throw something at me!

I do think my Switch ad idea is dead on, however.

It isn't rocket science. What could've been a visual feast was, instead, 30 seconds of people standing there with their hands on their hips and relating rather dull, uninspiring stories.

Didn't exactly get me torqued up or inspired...and I live and breathe this stuff! So imagine what it did for the average PC-using viewer. I'm betting not much, when you get right down to it. Might've piqued some curiosity and caused a visit or two to www.apple.com.

Did it result in any staggering marketshare increase or an overall sense of "Wow, Apple is really going after the Other Side, aren't they? They're taking no prisoners now, boy! Woo-hoo!"

No.

I'd venture to say that we're probably sitting at about the same numbers we were before Switch campaign. What's that quote about the definition of insanity?



Add my idea in and it would've been a lot more "bang for the buck" and could've killed several birds with one stone.

Note to Apple: I really don't need to stare at "regular people" for 30 seconds when you could, instead, be dazzling my eyeballs - and the eyeballs of potential new customers - with your groovy hardware while they're yammering on.



Try again! Film some new ones and just humor me.

post #424 of 771
Catching pscates' latest post, I was reminded of one missing idea in all these posts of how Apple should make people aware of Macs and why people buy PeeCees.

I really think this is an important one too, because I've heard it many, many times from end users that ask me about what they should buy when getting a new computer.

Here goes: these potential new computer buyers think that they have to get the same architecture that they have at work. So that home can be compatible with what they create at work, and to be able to remotely connect to work from home.

They are surprised to hear that alot of the apps they use at work are already compatible with the mac, and that most of the time connecting to the work network isn't an issue either. I say "most of the time", because sometimes the companies use proprietary S/W that is not Mac compatible.

Apple can have an ad that shows people that there aren't compatability issues with a Mac reading PC files, or vice versa.
post #425 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
It's funny to think: just four years ago, every magazine, poster, book, etc. produced on a Mac was done with G3 or below machines.

But as time goes on new software takes up more resources. OSX, photoshop 7 and illustrator 10 take up alot more resources than OS9 and the older versions of adobe software.
post #426 of 771
AppleInsider story here.
I'm making plastics right now!
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I'm making plastics right now!
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post #427 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
No, I won't be giving Jobs an earful. He might throw something at me!

(snip)

Heh, If you change your mind ... wear a helmet and body armor.
post #428 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi
AppleInsider story here.

Thank you Bodhi!
post #429 of 771
Quote:
AppleInsider story here.

Insert text that was on the poster directly behind muldar's desk here.



hope the source is solid.

only 2.5 more weeks!
post #430 of 771
I remember about a year or so ago they had a little pamphlet they were handing out at the Apple retail stores, regarding the "myths" (cross-platform compatibility, opening other files, networking, popular apps available for Mac, etc.). They also had a section on their website about it.

Did they make a print ad from it and run it in Entertainment Weekly, Rolling Stone and USA Today? You know, publications other than Macworld and Wired that most people actually read in great numbers? No.

Did they make a cool, quirky or otherwise memorable commercial for it that really blew these longstanding myths and wrong opinions out of the water, once and for all? No.

Did they bury them on their website, not linked from the front page, where a casual, non-Mac-using visitor mind actually FIND them? Yes.

Did they put them in little pamphlets only handed out at the Apple retail stores where, as we discussed earlier, SO many people are completely unaware of and don't even know exist and, therefore, never GOT these little pamphlets about the "myths"? Yes.

Am I in any way surprised? No.

\

And I really don't want to hear anything about "budgets" and "advertising dollars" and how "Apple has to spend it carefully and smartly...". Apple has plenty, apparently. It's how they're spending it that gets many of us slapping our foreheads. They seem to have little to no trouble throwing it away on campaigns and promos that make little or no difference in the end.

I wish I didn't dig Apple so much, because then all this kind of stuff wouldn't bother me as much as it does.

post #431 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
But as time goes on new software takes up more resources. OSX, photoshop 7 and illustrator 10 take up alot more resources than OS9 and the older versions of adobe software.

I am well aware of that

I'm just saying it in relation to perception and all. I wouldn't expect to run X and Photoshop 7 on an 8600. But, at one point, a 180MHz 604 was the shit and stuff got done and looked great.

It's not like anything pre-970 was the dark ages and we're all about to be unshackled.

post #432 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi
AppleInsider story here.

Wow, that's pretty cool. I wonder if that's anywhere near "CONFIRMED"? :P

Would be nice! I'd love to get to the point where I don't have to go "yeah, but..." to various smart-ass PC-using buddies when we're talking about Macs and the potential lameness of their overpriced and underpowered PRO (that being the operative word here) gear (the towers, which I think we can all agree on is the sole weak/lame slice in Apple's pie right now)

Crap, who knows. Maybe by Macworld SF 2004 the PowerBooks will sport this? And what does that mean for the consumer stuff next spring/summer?



In any case, I'm actually more interested in the case redesign. Would LOVE to see some new, modified towers and possible new matching displays.
post #433 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates

(snip)
And I really don't want to hear anything about "budgets" and "advertising dollars" and how "Apple has to spend it carefully and smartly...". Apple has plenty, apparently. It's how they're spending it that gets many of us slapping our foreheads. They seem to have little to no trouble throwing it away on campaigns and promos that make little or no difference in the end.

I wish I didn't dig Apple so much, because then all this kind of stuff wouldn't bother me as much as it does.


Actually, like you said ... the part about "Apple has to spend it carefully and smartly..." is the crux of the matter (sorry about you not wanting to hear about it, but it is the root of Apple's Advertising problem).

Apple seems to want the "cutesy" ads, and therefore is NOT spending their advertising $$ smartly or carefully. That's what has me slamming my forehead, because it's already a foregone conclusion that the ads aren't going to be as effective had they been created with insight into what people need to know when making a computer purchase decision. The public needs to be introduced to "why the Mac is better" and then have an incentive to visit an Apple Store in their town (use Newspaper ads to show locations, and Apple's own website to re-enforce the buying locales).

Dang pscates, you got me back onto that soap box.
post #434 of 771
Quote:
It's not like anything pre-970 was the dark ages and we're all about to be unshackled.

:P Yeah. Right.

Bodhi:

'ALRIGHT!'

Lemon Bon Bon
8)
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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #435 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
The iMac wasn't/isn't a "killer product"? On what planet?



The iMac was and is a killer design. However its core technology while sufficient to most average folks needs, isn't the kind of thing you blow your entire budget on promoting. Fact of the matter is that when it comes to computers, the average Joe depends on the recommendations from friends, family members and (sadly) salespeople. The most cost effective method of advertising and gaining market share is word of mouth. Getting the high tech "gear heads" on the bandwagon is actually one of the best ways to grow marketshare because they will sway the decisions of their non-technical family and friends.

Case in point. My aunt in her late 70's and someone who was programming computers and writing binary code before I was even born, wanted a PC. She had Mac because "I recommended it". That computer got a lot of use over the years. It grew old in the teeth and she wanted to get something better. I had moved away and my brother who lived nearby recommended a Windows PC, but only because it was what he knew. He didn't know Macs. In the end her purchase decision was based upon the recommendation of a nearby family member, even though she liked her Mac. My sister wants to buy a new computer for home. What will she buy? A name brand wintel machine, not because of advertising campaigns but because it is what she is familiar with from work and there is no-one nearby to support a Mac sale. Another technology challenged brother just got a computer for home. He was always intrigued by my Macs when I lived nearby, but in the end he got a Windows PC. Why? Because it was what he was familiar with from work and because my other brother recommended it and I wasn't nearby to support a mac purchase. And even my Wintel brother is intrigued by Macs, but he bought what he was familiar with from work, and then sold his daughter on the same.

The best advertising campaign in the world would not have changed any of those buying decisions or millions of others like them. All of them knew before and know still that Apple makes great, easy to use and reliable computers that are innovative. But they buy what they are familiar with or upon other folks recommendations. the difference between choosing Mac or PC was not advertising or price, it was my being 1500 to 3000 miles away and not able to support their buying considerations. Now if my somewhat tech savvy brother had a Mac at work, so that he was familiar with it, then it might have all been another story.

Interestingly, at work, the tech heads (about 40-50 of them out of 600 employees) are mostly paying close attention to Apple and watching to see what they deliver. They are mostly Windows with a few linux users and many are dedicated gamers. They are the folks their family members and many co-workers turn to for computer buying recomendations. At least 50% are intrigued by OS-X and just wating for some high performance hardware to go along with it before taking a more serious look. One in particular has put off buying a new PC because he wants to see what Apple delivers this summer. He has at least 3 less technical family members who are also holding off to see what he recommends. He would buy the tower, but that single tower purchase could easily lead to 3 iMac or iBook sales.

Our Telecom engineer brought his new Powerbook 15" into work. The IT people all hovered around it for a while intrigued. Now they avoid it like a plague. Why? Because OS-X scares them. They are Windows folks and that is what they know and OS-X is poised to upset their entire world. Intrigued and scared at the same time.

Advertising will increase name recognition, but Apple already has good name recommendation. Now they just need the word of mouth recommendations and the hardware to go along with it.

Word of mouth builds or destroys market share. A lot of folks responsible for word of mouth recommendations are watching Apple closely right now. Some have already switched. Sell more of them on the high end and the rest will follow along with their families and friends buying consumer iMacs and iBooks.

Apple will have a big marketing campaign but it will be carefully timed. They won't do anything substantial until the time is right and all the pieces are in place. Next year is the 20th anniversary of the Mac. I expect something really, really big because both the hardware and software will be in place across the board.
Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
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Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
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post #436 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates

It's not like anything pre-970 was the dark ages and we're all about to be unshackled.


but hopefully we will be unshackeld from the pain of such things as resizing a web brower window in osx. Thats all i'm asking for

it may not be the holy grail for macs of all times but it (hopefully) will be for osx
post #437 of 771
Dark Ages? I think the 970 will make any G3 or G4 system seem prehistoric. I think it's that significant. It will be MORE significant than any in the Mac's history. The speed increase looks set to lead the Mac into a new era.

I can't wait to see what it looks like.

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #438 of 771
Quote:
Apple will have a big marketing campaign but it will be carefully timed. They won't do anything substantial until the time is right and all the pieces are in place. Next year is the 20th anniversary of the Mac. I expect something really, really big because both the hardware and software will be in place across the board.

This is a shrewd post. Let's face it. 'You've' got a 'great' OS...put it runs like a dog on an ancient G3 processor. Is that really going to get the PC 'tech' Tower fraternity (bunch of girls...) to 'Switch' to the Mac? 'Nice but...'

Before you 'shout your mouth off' you better make damn sure there is no argument about performance. Apple must be pretty confident that not only will the 970 smack the Pentium 4 pretty hard...but that a substantial desktop PPC 'advantage' is upon us. Die shrink and subsequent 980 will more than take care of 'Prescott'.

In short, Apple busts a gut to transition their whole line to IBM's 970 from 1.4-2.5 by early 2004. 'Anniversary Year.'

What you got? The 970 at 2.5 gig in dual/quad? formations running on the best OS out there. Panther. Which, say, blows Xp well and truly out the water and ENDs all comparisons of the two.

Add to that the best part of 70 odd retail stores. iPod and iTunes Music store on Wintel and you've got the perfect bait and switch 'grass roots' machine to do your advertising for you. 'Word of mouth' is a very powerful thing.

Those PSCATES 'tech guys' at work will see a dual 2.5 owns Prescott. You've got an iPod on it. You can buy your music easily via the music store. Once the 'tech guys' get into the 'Power Tower'...then Auntie Gladyss will get one too...or an iMac with a 970 instead of an ancient G4.

That will be part of how Apple will get some growth. When it does the 'Superbowl' it needs to have 'not catch up' but 'blows X86 out the water hardware' out there from top to bottom.

If ever Apple needs to Advertise Blitz...it's next year. When they know they are completely ready. Jag' aint. Their hardware aint. The 970 will change that. The next year is going to be a rollercoaster.

And let's not forget that Apple is also promising a software blitz...which...is just as significant as Apple squares upto M$...

Lemon Bon Bon
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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #439 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaktai
Apple will have a big marketing campaign but it will be carefully timed. They won't do anything substantial until the time is right and all the pieces are in place. Next year is the 20th anniversary of the Mac. I expect something really, really big because both the hardware and software will be in place across the board.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Before you 'shout your mouth off' you better make damn sure there is no argument about performance.

Since this thread is turning into "Why doesn't Apple advertise?", I'll throw in my opinion inspired by the two quality observations above.

There hasn't been an OS based ad campaign for a reason. It's not that Steve "forgot" they have a new OS and people might want to know about it. I swear, do some of you actually think Apple is that dumb?

Apple cannot and should not directly advertise the superiority of OS X until every reasonable argument against it can be refuted. Of course tons of Windows drones will still protest, but Apple has to give the the average user, the press, rational IT departments, Higher Ed and Wall Street a complete picture they can stand behind.

January '04 is when this will happen. Apple needs six months to get the bugs out of the initial G5 machines and Panther itself anyway. It's always feast or famine, and the second half of '03 is going to be feast all on its own anyway. The Mac installed base will make Apple tons of cash in the next six months from G5 and Panther sales alone. (If Powerbooks also go G5 before the end of the year then Apple will have a real supply problem.) The irony is they couldn't mount a massive ad campaign aimed at the average Wintel user right now if they wanted to.

Fast forward to MacWorld SF 2004. Apple should have most, if not all of the following in place:

Rev B Power Mac G5s over 2Ghz (All dual? Quads?)
G5 Xserves with meaningful 64 bit apps
G5 flat panel iMacs
G5 Powerbooks
G5 based headless Mac/Cube
G5 eMacs
G4 or Gobi based iBooks
A massively successful iTunes Music Store with 500,000 tracks and full Major and Indie support.
Quark 6 and InDesign 3 (already with bug killing point releases)
FCP 4 Shake 3 and DVDSP 2 (all with bug free point releases)
OS X 10.3.2 or 10.3.3 (again, the bug free version for the masses)
Apple branded Office replacement (Keynote, the rumored Document et. al.)

Launch a massive, no holds barred ad campaign starting with a Macintosh 20th anniversary Super Bowl commercial. Saturate all media with the message that the Mac is a better than Windows, right now, for everyone.
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post #440 of 771
Well to kind of bring us back on track, I was just thinking how fun it would be to attend the WWDC keynote this year. Then I thought of 4 really good reasons why I shouldn't.

1. I am not a developer
2. Outside of the keynote, the stuff they are going to be talking about is over my head anyway.
3. San Francisco doesn't interest me as a tourist stop. Been there already.
4. It's expensive, and I would rather save my money to buy a new PowerMac to use rather then just hear about.

Still I envy just a little, all the folks who will be there. If they do announce the 970 based PowerMacs there, then it will be an exciting time. I can just imagine the electricty in the air. -- But of course if we are ALL wrong, and they don't announce anything other then Panther, then it may be a bit of a downer.

Wish I could be there, but then for very good reasons, am glad I won't be. No matter what happens I will probably buy a new PowerMac by Fall. Just hoping it will be something real special.
Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
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Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
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