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post #521 of 771
Sybase is already shipping ASE 12.5 for Mac OS X.

Sybase
post #522 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Nitzer
Sybase is already shipping ASE 12.5 for Mac OS X.

Sybase

I think we can expect announcements of (planned?) native 64bit versions. Which would be a big deal to enterprise customers.
"Spec" is short for "specification" not "speculation".
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"Spec" is short for "specification" not "speculation".
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post #523 of 771
Welcome to AI, fresco! Good first post.

I'm very much looking forward to what Apple does on the IT track. Not only is this a great way to get business cred (and start leveraging the tendency of people to buy the platform they use at work, rather than suffering from it), but a great way to get back into the education market.

Also, if Apple can offer a credible end-to-end solution they're less likely to get crowded out by the corporate inclination to buy Windows servers and then figure that they'll work best with Windows clients...
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post #524 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomb of the Unknown
I think we can expect announcements of (planned?) native 64bit versions. Which would be a big deal to enterprise customers.

True, it would be big news.
post #525 of 771
We have just bought 2 of IBM's iSeries servers.

If i could run Domino Server and DB2 on OS X...

There's huge potential for OS X / xServe in server rooms.
Poeple are a bit affraid of linux, and M$ is expensive and pain to work with.

xServes would fit perfectly, both money-wise and performance-wise in many small to medium shops.
What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? _(W.C. Fields)
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What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? _(W.C. Fields)
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post #526 of 771
So does this mean that the Xserve will get the 970 at WWDC to tke advantage of all this good 64-bit software. My little knowledge on the subject tells me that the best way to promote the 64-bit aspect of teh 970 is with these types of apps. correct?
post #527 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Please, PLEASE let there be dual G5 Powermacs announced. It's fine if they don't ship at first, but for fsck's sake announce them! Going all single CPU would be an extremely bad idea IMO

Agreed 100%. Even with the increased performance of the 970, going from dual 1.4s to a single 1.8 just looks bad. Especially since there will be plenty of benchmarks where the dual G4 would be substantially faster (e.g. RC5). I don't think Apple has *not* had a dual in their lineup since 1999, and this would be an extremely poor time to change that policy.
post #528 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by 3.1416
Agreed 100%. Even with the increased performance of the 970, going from dual 1.4s to a single 1.8 just looks bad. Especially since there will be plenty of benchmarks where the dual G4 would be substantially faster (e.g. RC5). I don't think Apple has *not* had a dual in their lineup since 1999, and this would be an extremely poor time to change that policy.

Disagree. Those who know the advantages of duals would be the same who should know that a dual 1.42 can't hold pee to a single 1.8ghz 970. So it doesn't matter right away. I'm almost positive that a single 1.8ghz will smoke my dual gig, and I'll be the first to go from dual to single.
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All Your PCs Are Belong To Trash
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post #529 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by KidRed
Disagree. Those who know the advantages of duals would be the same who should know that a dual 1.42 can't hold pee to a single 1.8ghz 970. So it doesn't matter right away. I'm almost positive that a single 1.8ghz will smoke my dual gig, and I'll be the first to go from dual to single.

I agree that in actual performance, the 1.8 970 would probably beat the pants off from the dual 1.4 G4. However, we are talking about perception and marketing here. Do the math... Which is more, 1.8 (970) or 2 x 1.4 = 2.8 (G4)?

Before anyone flames me for this, I know that simple multiplication is no measure of how it will work. However, I am a developer. I eat, drink, breathe computers; as such I know about these nuances. However, Bob at the local CompUSA (or Sears, Electric City, etc [insert retail store here]) is not going to know that, or will be told that simple multiplication IS an effective means...

Point is that Apple not only needs to deliver on performance, but also on PERCIEVED PERFORMANCE.
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post #530 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by wfzelle
No Picture? \

NETROMac was kind enough to make the pictures I have been posting. Unfortunately, he made a mistake with 12 days to go and it said 14. I had neither the time nor skill to correct it so I just listed the days.
post #531 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurt
NETROMac was kind enough to make the pictures I have been posting. Unfortunately, he made a mistake with 12 days to go and it said 14. I had neither the time nor skill to correct it so I just listed the days.

Ooops! Sorry 'bout that one. Could have fixed it, but my mac is "boxed" right now. Hope the rest of the pics are right though. Posting this from my brothers oh-so-boring pentium-III-box.
Former WWDC Watchdog.
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Former WWDC Watchdog.
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post #532 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by KidRed
Disagree. Those who know the advantages of duals would be the same who should know that a dual 1.42 can't hold pee to a single 1.8ghz 970. So it doesn't matter right away. I'm almost positive that a single 1.8ghz will smoke my dual gig, and I'll be the first to go from dual to single.

Two more relevant reasons for why Apple should keep a dual machine are:

A Dual PPC 970 can be benchmarked and be shown to completely destroy a Pentium. Duals are more common on the Mac side than the PC side, so this isn't quite as rigged as it really is. Such a machine makes for good benchmark scores.

Secondly, continuing with dual machines means that for a programmer to gain optimal performance, they must write their code to take advantage of multiple CPUs, meaning it must use threading. If you don't make programmers think this way, they generally do not think this way (because it involves more effort). Because Apple has been relying on dual CPUs to make up for the poor performance of the G4, I would guess that OS X code is more thread aware than most Win32 code out there. Apple should keep up the trend.
King Felix
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King Felix
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post #533 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
Do the math... Which is more, 1.8 (970) or 2 x 1.4 = 2.8 (G4)?

Well, ok.

1.8(970)=1746, and
2.8(G4)=11.2G, and
G=.25, therefore
11.2G=2.8

Therefore, since 1746>2.8, this proves the PowerMac 970 will be approximately 624 times faster than the G4.
post #534 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by DCQ
Well, ok.

1.8(970)=1746, and
2.8(G4)=11.2G, and
G=.25, therefore
11.2G=2.8

Therefore, since 1746>2.8, this proves the PowerMac 970 will be approximately 624 times faster than the G4.

Some people are SO literal.

Mike. compare the SpecInt and SpecFP for the two machines, then do the math. That's what sells, Mhz means nothing to consumers. They just judge by how impressed the sales people appear to be.
"Spec" is short for "specification" not "speculation".
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"Spec" is short for "specification" not "speculation".
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post #535 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Yevgeny
Two more relevant reasons for why Apple should keep a dual machine are:

Secondly, continuing with dual machines means that for a programmer to gain optimal performance, they must write their code to take advantage of multiple CPUs, meaning it must use threading. If you don't make programmers think this way, they generally do not think this way (because it involves more effort). Because Apple has been relying on dual CPUs to make up for the poor performance of the G4, I would guess that OS X code is more thread aware than most Win32 code out there. Apple should keep up the trend.

YES, YES, YES. If Apple keeps the duals coming then eventually in a few years (sarcasm) Adobe will begin to opimize their apps for duals. If its dual, then no duals, then duals again, then the developers will just give up on optimizing their code to take advantage of both processors. Its all about market share of duals versus monos.
post #536 of 771
Yeah...Apple Turns now says there will be no PowerMac in WWDC.

Rumors up....down....up.....down......up....down...

Man...can't take it anymore
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Mac Pro 2.66, 5GB RAM, 250+120 HD, 23" Cinema Display
MacBook 1.83GHz, 2GB RAM
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post #537 of 771
I knew it was too good to be true
post #538 of 771
Ohhh the Huge Manatee!
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J.C. Corbin, Apple Certified Technical Coordinator
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post #539 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Leonis
Yeah...Apple Turns now says there will be no PowerMac in WWDC.

Rumors up....down....up.....down......up....down...

Man...can't take it anymore

huh?

links?
What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? _(W.C. Fields)
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What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? _(W.C. Fields)
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post #540 of 771
post #541 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Leonis
Yeah...Apple Turns now says there will be no PowerMac in WWDC.

Rumors up....down....up.....down......up....down...

Man...can't take it anymore

Yeh I'll be happy when WWDC is here for that reason alone. I just want to know either way.

---

I'll PayPal anyone $100 if they nude streak on stage during Jobs' keynote with something like "One more thing!" or "970 now!" painted on their chest.
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- J B 7 2 -
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- J B 7 2 -
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post #542 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by - J B 7 2 -
Yeh I'll be happy when WWDC is here for that reason alone. I just want to know either way.

---

I'll PayPal anyone $100 if they nude streak on stage during Jobs' keynote with something like "One more thing!" or "970 now!" painted on their chest.

$100 + plane ticket?

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? _(W.C. Fields)
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What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? _(W.C. Fields)
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post #543 of 771
www.appleturns.com is such a neat website.
orange you just glad?
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orange you just glad?
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post #544 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Ernest eMac
sad news?

Hey, that's strangely in sync with what I've been saying since last August. I wonder if I will become "The Next Big Thing" in rumour-mongering?

I think we'll at least see Steve demo the new hardware.
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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post #545 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Hey, that's strangely in sync with what I've been saying since last August. I wonder if I will become "The Next Big Thing" in rumour-mongering?

I think we'll at least see Steve demo the new hardware.

...and maybe announcing pre-orders for delivery in August.
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #546 of 771
Well I'm not surprised. If the 970 is at WWDC, it's to be demoed to developers. I think everyone took the 'at WWDC' to mean they would be buying them at the end of the show. I am not surprised or disappointed by this because I'm still under the impression we are getting a fall release. We may get the 970 earlier but the last official non official and still not confirm that Apple is using the 970 is a fall release. If we get it early, June, July even Sept is a bonus.
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post #547 of 771
A demo would be perfectly reasonable, great news in fact.
post #548 of 771
Jack from AtAT has posted in the MacRumors forums


"From That AtAT Guy

Holy cats, it's like a school of pirahnas on crystal meth in here! But I mean that in a good way.

Okay, I know other people posted the fuller quote in context, but I'm going to do it again:


quote:
Meanwhile, we're hearing the faintest rumblings that the Power Mac G5 may actually not be ready for a WWDC introduction after all. We're not putting a whole lot of stock in said rumblings just yet, but we mention them anyway for the cautious souls among you who choose to temper your enthusiasm with a hefty dose of skepticism. 'Nuff said.


Key phrases to note are "faintest rumblings" and "not putting a whole lot of stock in." Who knew that a quick side note expressing certain third-hand parties' skepticism would send scores of distraught Mac fans leaping to their deaths?

This is getting so out of hand I may have to re-address this issue tomorrow. But the bottom line is that all I said is that some other people don't think the 970 will be ready to introduce, and that I didn't exactly believe them.

Personally, the way things are looking, I expect Panther to be demoed on a pre-production G5, but I'm thinking they probably won't be available for another month or so. Note that none of this is really based on anything more than what all of you have already seen a dozen times over. (Well, not much more. )

So relax. When I said "faintest rumblings," I meant "faintest rumblings"; some people do in fact choose not to let their enthusiasm get too out of hand just in case of disappointment, and I thought they might like to hear that some people are casting doubt on a 970 intro. In my own personal opinion, whether the G5 appears or not, people are probably getting their hopes up way higher than is generally healthy. Remember what happened with the summer Expo of 2001 when everyone was expecting LCD iMacs? Man, that was an ugly scene...

Anyway, hope that clears things up a little. Thanx for your time..."
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"it's" contraction of "it is"
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post #549 of 771
Concering duals: They've been using things like "Two heads are better than one" in commercials for a while, so it would be bad to backtrack, just like it would be bad to all of a sudden drop AltiVec. And Programmer(s) would be pissed off.
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post #550 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
Concering duals: They've been using things like "Two heads are better than one" in commercials for a while, so it would be bad to backtrack, just like it would be bad to all of a sudden drop AltiVec. And Programmer(s) would be pissed off.

"A superbrain is better than two brain deads"?
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post #551 of 771
The 970 better be out "faint rumble" or not:
The current crop has "speed bumped stop gap measure" all over them. Dual 1.6 GHz G4 will only bring out trips to www.depair.com

In a couple of months it has been 4 years since the G4 arrived to the Mac Towers. Considering how glorious those years has been and how satisfied we have been with our shiny "super computers" and the level of envy all Intel and AMD users have felt, we better not reach August 2003 with G4 still in the towers
post #552 of 771
I don't know what this means, but Apple Finland won't arrange WWDC satellite meeting where you could see Jobs keynote from WWDC in Finland. Previously there has been some satellite broadcast happenings around Macworlds in Finland.
post #553 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Stratosfear
I don't know what this means, but Apple Finland won't arrange WWDC satellite meeting where you could see Jobs keynote from WWDC in Finland. Previously there has been some satellite broadcast happenings around Macworlds in Finland.

WWDC and Macworld are two very different events.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #554 of 771


1991 CERN seminar on WWW

On June 12, 1991, CERN, the European Particle Physics Laboratory in Geneva, held a seminar about the World Wide Web, a new hypertext system designed by British computer scientists Tim Berners-Lee during a fellowship at CERN.
In May, Berners-Lee had presented the architecture for the World Wide Web to a CERN committee and released a version of the Web on CERN's computers. Berners-Lee had been developing the system, which allowed Internet documents to "link" to each other easily, since 1989. By 1990, he had created the basic parameters of the World Wide Web, which were posted on the Internet in the summer of 1991. Berners-Lee continued to develop the Web through 1993, working with feedback from Internet users. By late 1991 and early 1992, the Web was widely discussed, and in early 1993, when Marc Andreessen and other graduate students at the University of Illinois released the Mosaic browser (Netscape's precursor), the Web rapidly became a popular communications medium.
post #555 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Tomb of the Unknown
Some people are SO literal.

Mike. compare the SpecInt and SpecFP for the two machines, then do the math. That's what sells, Mhz means nothing to consumers. They just judge by how impressed the sales people appear to be.

TotU, I know that in all actuality that we would have to compare SpecInt and SpecFP numbers to get a true reading of the actual performance gains over the G4. That wasn't the point of my post at all.

I am talking about MARKETING here for a second. If you told Joe Average about Spec Numbers, you will see for yourself what I commonly call the "Glazed Effect". In short, they will look at you strangely, confused, and then brush you off as "just another techie".

Now, you take the same Joe Average, and you tell him that Apples top of the line contains two 1.8 GHz 970s, all he is going to hear is: "1.8GHz x 2 = 3.6GHz; That's fast!!"

Remember, it was (the lack of) marketing that has gotten Apple to where it is now, and it is going to require Apple to really take it up a couple of notches in order to turn around their market share issue.

Also, if you don't believe me on this, go to your local Frys Electronics, CompUSA, or other computer store. Ask them which would be faster, a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4, or two 1.8 GHz 970s. Then ask them why. You will be amazed at the response you get.
-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
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-- Mike Eggleston
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-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
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post #556 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
TotU, I know that in all actuality that we would have to compare SpecInt and SpecFP numbers to get a true reading of the actual performance gains over the G4.

Well, not really....

Quote:
I am talking about MARKETING here for a second. If you told Joe Average about Spec Numbers, you will see for yourself what I commonly call the "Glazed Effect". In short, they will look at you strangely, confused, and then brush you off as "just another techie".

Now, you take the same Joe Average, and you tell him that Apples top of the line contains two 1.8 GHz 970s, all he is going to hear is: "1.8GHz x 2 = 3.6GHz; That's fast!!"

In my own experience, even that's not true. To the extent that people latch on to any aspect of the hardware, it's the CPU clock speed. The number of processors doesn't register in any concrete way. So if you release a dual 1.8GHz machine, what you'll hear is "1.8GHz, huh." To get the effect you're looking for you'd have to pull an AMD and give the machine a "speed rating" of 3.6GHz or some crap like that.

Quote:
Remember, it was (the lack of) marketing that has gotten Apple to where it is now, and it is going to require Apple to really take it up a couple of notches in order to turn around their market share issue.

There are a lot of reasons why Apple is where it is now. Marketing is one of them. At this point, they have no choice but to battle hard for every sale, because they're simply not even considered an option by most people - for reasons that vary from simple obliviousness to a notion that they're pretty but incompatible, or different enough that it would be easier to just stick with what's familiar. Once Macs are common enough that most people aren't shocked to see them in coffeehouses, and they're casually familiar with a few happy owners, the brand will gain traction again.

I've seen a lot more iBooks around in the last 6 months than I've seen any kind of Mac portable in the last 10 years. This bodes well.

Quote:
Also, if you don't believe me on this, go to your local Frys Electronics, CompUSA, or other computer store. Ask them which would be faster, a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4, or two 1.8 GHz 970s. Then ask them why. You will be amazed at the response you get.

"What's a 970?"
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Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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post #557 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
I've seen a lot more iBooks around in the last 6 months than I've seen any kind of Mac portable in the last 10 years. This bodes well.

Ive been seeing tons of people using powerbooks and ibooks all over NYC lately, in coffee houses and the like. glowing apples everywhere And i just went to a live drum and bass show, and the keyboard player was using a 12". That is major advertising right there for every person there that night that saw that glowing apple. When they see that computer in the store they will either want it, or at least have respect for it.
post #558 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
There are a lot of reasons why Apple is where it is now.

You are absolutly right. I know I was way overly generalizing things. I was just saying the marketing is probably the most obvious of all of them.


Quote:
"What's a 970?"

You are so right about that!!!

It has been in my experience though, that most people would in fact multiply the two numbers together, because that is all they have to go by.
-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
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-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
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post #559 of 771
According to Loop Rumors:


"We know internally that Apple has been replacing the acronym WWDC with the phrase "We Will Delight Crowds."


Crowds of developers or crowds of consumers?
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It's shameful how grammar on the Internet is losing its accuracy.
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Attention Internet Users!

"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

It's shameful how grammar on the Internet is losing its accuracy.
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post #560 of 771
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Crowds of developers or crowds of consumers?

Maybe both?
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