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When will we see a 15" Albook? - Page 5

post #161 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg

Interesting quote in your sig. I didn't know Hitler wrote with comma splices - or that somebody translated him with such poor grammar.
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post #162 of 329
Double post.
post #163 of 329
From The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler, Robert Payne.


Yeah I thought it was odd, too, either poor translation, or I copied it wrong. I should look it up again. Obviously Hitler didn't write in English, since he didn't know English beyond a few stunted phrases.

edit: Damn, I can't find it now. I guess it's time to change my sigfile, anyways. Since you brought up the bad grammar, I'm worried that I botched the quote somehow.
post #164 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
From The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler, Robert Payne.


Yeah I thought it was odd, too, either poor translation, or I copied it wrong. I should look it up again. Obviously Hitler didn't write in English, since he didn't know English beyond a few stunted phrases.

edit: Damn, I can't find it now. I guess it's time to change my sigfile, anyways. Since you brought up the bad grammar, I'm worried that I botched the quote somehow.

I like your quote. Reminds me of Bush and the Iraq War.
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post #165 of 329
D'oh. Just checked in to see what the latest gossip as about a 15" AlBook and you lot are discussing Hitler!?

I'll take that as no news at all on the 15" front!
post #166 of 329
To me (and if I was running Apple into the ground... ) I would delay the 15 inch Powerbook further (obviously delayed...) to coincide with a relaunched 17 inch Powerbook (which will have been on the market about six months or more by the time the 15 incher hits.)

Why?

To coincide with an across the board move of the 'Power' line to 970 cpus.

1.2 970s for the 12inch 15inch Powerbooks.
Dual 1.2 970s for the 17 incher (C'mon. Loads of room in there...) While in 'portable' mode, the 2nd cpu remains idle or in very low power mode.

And include that awesome new ATI mobility.

1.4-1.8 duals for the Towers.

It's been so long that this would be a logical and perfect move to Panther. The pro' line goes 970.

And the consumer laptops wait on Faster G3+SIMD etc. G4 is out the picture. So to? Moto!

Both the 17 inch and 15 and 12 are all due for something really new. Bring on the low-power 970.

Would they run too hot? IBM say not. Besides...no warmer than the guy who got his d*ck burnt with a DELL. Apple can always sell an i-protect-your-D*CK tea-cosy type thing...free with each Pro-laptop...

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post #167 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
I should have specified: Same MHz. 500 MHz G3 --> 500 MHz G4. Many saw this as a fairly small change, and unless one used altivec-intensive apps, which were more rare at the time, the new Titanium wasn't any faster than the Pismo.

It would be the same now if Apple updated the Ti without changing the CPU. Performance would get a modest increase from the new mobo, but nothing worth upgrading to from an existing Ti.

That's the catch-22, though. It's not tremendously worth upgrading from the Ti. But at the same time it seems many Tis are sitting in warehouses because of people expecting its own makeover soon, näive to the fact that it's not a monumental leap in actual performance.

What's a corporation to do? I'd make those wanting a makeover wait, then offer a nice DISCOUNT on existing TiBooks/AlBooks. Then, a few months later, roll out a 970-powered line.
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post #168 of 329
fred_lj, I think it's just because the word on the 970 handing the G4 it's ass is more than enough to stop consumers from buying a new Mac when they know full well that they can hold off on purchases (especially in this economy) and get a killer new laptop down the road. If Apple has warehouses full of TiBooks then I wish them the best of luck in getting rid of them. Because when we're watching where every dollar goes, we sure as hell aren't going to watch our money go into a G4 when we all know the 970 is looming. Apple ought to cut their losses and say "Screw it, we're moving to a new platform get rid of the G4's." They can put them down on the warehouse floor, drive over them with a piece of heavy machinery and write them all off on taxes so it's not like they are losing everything. Businesses do that all the time (the publishing world depends on that tactic to survive). The numbers will look grim on ANY new G4 release.
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post #169 of 329
well I needed a PowerBook and I really do like the Ti design more. It looks more expensive and stronger. The Al design looks kind of plastic like or something. So I got a few month old 1Ghz Ti for 2,300 with AppleCare. Yes, I know we'll see new ones soon, but I highly doubt they will be that much better. They'll have DDR on a 167mhz bus for a combined performance improvment of 5%!!!! Plus this way I saved a lot of money!
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post #170 of 329
Algol, you're right, the new ones may not be that much better, but then again, Apple is shooting itself in the foot by introducing anything less than the 970. There are deals to be had out there, and I easily have the cash to buy a G4 PB but why do so when the 970 will come into the PB lineup? It's the difference between a prop plane and a jet. Sure they'll both get you there, the prop plane just does it a lot slower. Sorry my friend, but I'm holding out for the Jet, and I think Steve knows it.
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post #171 of 329
yea when the jet exists I'll sell and buy one. Maybe the second revision...
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post #172 of 329
"Be entirely tolerant or not at all; follow the good path or the evil one. To stand at the crossroads requires more strength than you possess."

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post #173 of 329
We've beat this 15-inch PowerBook stuff into the ground. It will be clear if the laptop is not introduced by the first week of June, it's a WWDC or MacWorld Creative Expo item for sure.
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post #174 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
We've beat this 15-inch PowerBook stuff into the ground. It will be clear if the laptop is not introduced by the first week of June, it's a WWDC or MacWorld Creative Expo item for sure.
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post #175 of 329
Been away from the forums so long I forgot to write anything before posting~! hardly noticed did you?

Well, he deal is this: Two years ago I almost bought a TiBook, but had a G3 Pismo and all the gear to fill the bay, so waited hoping for ADC out. Then along came that and I was all ready to go, but caught wind of the new comm software and held over. Then along come the AL books; would have bought the little one in a flash, but no ADC. I have odd buy points just before I go off to Japan for a couple of months each fall and summer. I seem to always miss them.

Well, Steve, please give me ADC in the mini G4 PB or an AlPB so I can take my Cubes ahead and pass along my trusty, still serving G3 PowerBook!

OK, OK, so if I just buy I'll have no worries at all, but I'd have missed two years of loyal service and not have all that other stuff I spent my money on!\
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post #176 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Cubit
Well, Steve, please give me ADC in the mini G4 PB or an AlPB so I can take my Cubes ahead and pass along my trusty, still serving G3 PowerBook!

What in the world do you need ADC for? The last three or so generations of PowerBooks have had DVI in them, starting with the 667/800 line (I have a 667/DVI). By means of an Apple adaptor you can connect these to your ADC monitor just as if they did have an ADC connector.

It's impossible to put ADC on a 'Book though because ADC must carry power for the display - and there's no way to do that through a laptop. Even when plugged in the power adaptor won't generate it. That's why the DVI->ADC box has a separate power connector.

So -- what do you need ADC for that DVI + adaptor doesn't do?
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post #177 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Karma
What in the world do you need ADC for? The last three or so generations of PowerBooks have had DVI in them, starting with the 667/800 line (I have a 667/DVI). By means of an Apple adaptor you can connect these to your ADC monitor just as if they did have an ADC connector.

It's impossible to put ADC on a 'Book though because ADC must carry power for the display - and there's no way to do that through a laptop. Even when plugged in the power adaptor won't generate it. That's why the DVI->ADC box has a separate power connector.

So -- what do you need ADC for that DVI + adaptor doesn't do?

Thanks AK. I'm intrigued by your reply. The reason for wanting the direct out is to allow me to avoid carrying around rhe DVI adapter!

I admit it, I made an idiotic mistake when what I should have said is that DVI&S video out is what I want so I can use my Cinema 22 and my HD displays in home and office and carry my little 15" to an occasional class when I want to display something to the seminar I even got the carrying case for the latter when I bought my first Cube. Anyway. You caught me in a fundamental blunder. Embarrassing for someone who bought his first Mac at 128k two weeks after they came out

DVI&S video out
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post #178 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Cubit
Thanks AK. I'm intrigued by your reply. The reason for wanting the direct out is to allow me to avoid carrying around rhe DVI adapter!

I admit it, I made an idiotic mistake when what I should have said is that DVI&S video out is what I want so I can use my Cinema 22 and my HD displays in home and office and carry my little 15" to an occasional class when I want to display something to the seminar? I even got the carrying case for the latter when I bought my first Cube. Anyway. You caught me in a fundamental blunder. Embarrassing for someone who bought his first Mac at 128k two weeks after they came out

DVI&S video out

I like your basic thinking. I was first going to get the 12 inch Al PB to use for excursions away from my QS 867 w/20 inch cinema display. After looking at some of the xbench scores I figured I would be better off with a 15 inch Al PB in place of the QuickSilver tower. The PB would be faster, quieter and portable when necessary. Now I'm just waiting for Apple to release the little beauty.


I'm looking at the calendar. Because of today's holiday I doubt new hardware would come out tomorrow. Plus there have been no advance indicators such as shortages in the supply line. Next Tuesday is just three weeks away from WWDC. Perhaps that is too close. The calendar would argue we won't see this till WWDC.
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post #179 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Cubit


DVI&S video out

All the powerbooks already have DVI & S-video out.
post #180 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
All the powerbooks already have DVI & S-video out.

12" PB doesn't have DVI. It has VGA.
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post #181 of 329
Doeh! Double post.
post #182 of 329
Oh, you're right I must have missed that.

Still, the 15" Powerbook does, and that's what this thread is about. Cubit was talking about the 15" Ti, and how he's holding out on buying one until they have DVI and S-Video output. They do. That was my point.

The current Titanium is an excellent laptop, I don't think anyone could go wrong with it. If you don't really need a laptop now, it's probably good to wait, but if you need one, then there's little to gain by waiting.

Who has FW 800 peripherals already? Hardly anyone. Who's going to benefit from a 1 GHz G4 on a 166 MHz system bus vs. a 133 MHz system bus? Nobody who's using a Titanium as their primary computer.

Probably the most important spec that may be updated is the display...the powerbook could benefit from a higher resolution display, and maybe even slightly larger if rumors are correct. This could be worth waiting on if you don't like the current display, but 1280x854 is fairly high. It's about the same as what I use with my 19" CRT (1280x960), and that's a good amount of desktop space packed into a 15" display. Still there are other areas besides resolution to improve and my bet is on Apple doing so.
post #183 of 329
I plan on using the revised 15 inch as my next primary computer.
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post #184 of 329
I hope the 15 incher gets the new Radeon mobility card. And moves to the low-power 970. At the same time...I would have thought the 17 incher would also get a bump or risk getting its sales pounded.

It's been almost 6 months since they were launched at Macworld anyhow. I think all three are due.

If Apple really wants the 'year of the laptop'...then they need to build on the stunning year debut and stick 970s in all three machines. I don't see why the towers should be the first to get them.

970 changes things. It gives Apple lotso options.

The sales rush for 970 laptops 'this soon' would be unprecedented.

The performance quandry for Apple needs to be addressed sooner or later. What better way than a typical Apple trend busting release..?

Afterall, what's else could be holding up the 15 incher? Ti-inventory? That Ati Mobility? Both? Sorting those initial 'manufacturing problems?' Or a stockpile of low-power 970s..?

Many might argue that the tower line's sales are the priority in terms of addressing sales figures.

Lemon Bon Bon.
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post #185 of 329
Yeah, I suppose the 15 inch could get the revamp while the 12 and 17 just get minor speed bumps(or maybe just the 17)
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post #186 of 329
No, the 970 will not hit the 15" until the 17" inch can get it too. Releasing a 970 powered 15" powerbook would probably *kill* the 17" sales. As has been stated many times before - the 17" have to be the top-dog, and will probably never have fewer features or lesser processor than the other two 'books.
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post #187 of 329
O'Grady is claiming as further evidence that new 15-inch PowerBooks are right around the corner a sale at CompUSA.com of 667MHz models for just $1,499.

Of course that 667MHz model may be as much as a year old, and is being sold "as is" and not returnable. Meaning it was probably a floor model.

The CURRENT line is still at standard retail prices, which doesn't exactly scream that they're trying to clear inventory.
post #188 of 329
Sure it would piss people off to stick the 970 into a new 17" so quickly, but has Apple ever provided a free upgrade from an older model?

Not sure how many 17" are in the channel, and it would be a pricey thing to do.
But then again, can Apple afford to wait say another 6 months or so before using the 970 that they have ready to go?
post #189 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robust
Yeah, I suppose the 15 inch could get the revamp while the 12 and 17 just get minor speed bumps(or maybe just the 17)

The thing is that the only way to bump the G4 now is to go to the same high-voltage XPC models in the towers, and those things are hot. The 7457 won't appear for months yet. Faced with the need to put a particularly hot chip in a laptop in order to make any progress at all, it seems to me that Apple has nothing to lose by dropping in a 970. I doubt the low-voltage version is hotter than the XPC7455 (you can't quote the power consumption from Mot's site, because those are for the lower-voltage MPC7455), and I'd be surprised if it isn't cheaper, too. And Apple could at least offer something that was worth all the trouble.

The only alternative I can see is for Apple to let their professional laptops languish during the "Year of the Laptop." However much it might be claimed - or even true - that Steve was just using that as a way to hype the models he had ready at MWSF, he has to have been aware that it would come back to haunt him if Apple didn't deliver on it. On the other hand, if he can get journalists writing "When Steve Jobs proclaimed 2003 the Year of the Laptop, he wasn't kidding," then he's scored a significant PR coup just in time to leave PC laptops back in the dust where they belong.
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post #190 of 329
Quote:
On the other hand, if he can get journalists writing "When Steve Jobs proclaimed 2003 the Year of the Laptop, he wasn't kidding," then he's scored a significant PR coup just in time to leave PC laptops back in the dust where they belong.



Lemon Bon Bon

(Nice to see Amorph applying his 'integer logic' to the 970 Powerbook debate...)
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post #191 of 329
I think Amorph is right: Apple has painted themselves into a corner with the PowerBooks, if Moto can't ship a low-power 7455 at greater than 1GHz. They just cannot use the high-voltage variant that's in the towers; I have a dual-1.25 and the heat sink is absolutely HUGE. My guess is, we're stuck at 1GHz until the 7457 or the 970.

I still don't think it would be disastrous to 12- and 17-inch sales if the 15 went to a 970 first, assuming that chip was clocked at or close to the current G4. To us, yes, there is a clear advantage to the 970, but the majority of customers simply don't know enough about processors to understand the difference. Especially switchers, who are so confused about Celerons and Pentiums and Centrino -- by and large they have no idea what the difference is.

Have you ever tried to explain Altivec to someone to show them why a G4 is better than a G3?
post #192 of 329
OK, after having scrutinized the rumor mill for months & months (read: I, too, am dying for the 15" AlBook) here's my $0.02. Beating the horse bloody...

1. No way we'll see it before WWDC (June) or MWE (July).
- Apple likes to introduce new devices at conventions, so why should we think any different?
- They'll want to buy time so suckers/indifferents will buy leftover TiBooks.

2. No way it'll have the 970 in it.
- As been said, they'd be nuts to introduce their top chip in a midrange machine and even nutser (?) to charge more for a midrange machine than the 17" AlBook.
- Apple laptops have never got the top chip before or even simultaneously with a desktop model. True of the 68040, the PPC/G3, and the G4. Will be true for the 970.
- As been said, the 17" AlBook is barely out in Europe. Why would Apple trump it now?

3. Bluetooth, yes. Airport Extreme, yes. Backlit keyboard, possibly (s'been rumored). ATI Mobility Raedon 9600 GPU, nope.
- As been said, Apple was not on ATI's list of launch partners for the new chip.
- They're just shipping a Mercedes. Why introduce a cheaper Ferrari?

Personally, I'd be happy with Bluetooth as the sole enhancement to save a precious USB port. Everything else, at THIS POINT, would be gravy.

-K

P.S. We'll know soon enough, eh? Surely you've read this: http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/...21115723.shtml
post #193 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Kabeyun
OK, after having scrutinized the rumor mill for months & months (read: I, too, am dying for the 15" AlBook) here's my $0.02. Beating the horse bloody...

1. No way we'll see it before WWDC (June) or MWE (July).

You are probably right about this one.
Quote:
- They'll want to buy time so suckers/indifferents will buy leftover TiBooks.

I don't think "buying time is very high on Apples schedual right now
Quote:

2. No way it'll have the 970 in it.
- As been said, they'd be nuts to introduce their top chip in a midrange machine

The 15" is not a mid-range machine. It is top of the range, just has a smaller display than the top dog which is more of a desktop replacement 'book
Quote:
and even nutser (?) to charge more for a midrange machine than the 17" AlBook.

Why would they charge more? I don't see why a 15" 970 powered powerbook can cost the same as before. in fact I can almost guarantee that it will keep the current price-point.
Quote:
- Apple laptops have never got the top chip before or even simultaneously with a desktop model. True of the 68040, the PPC/G3, and the G4. Will be true for the 970.
- As been said, the 17" AlBook is barely out in Europe. Why would Apple trump it now?

If they had the 15" and 17" ready now, I'll bet they would have made it happen. Maybe not at the WWDC, but why not at MacWorld "whatever". It won't happen at the same time, and that is a combined 970 availability / production / developement / time since last update kinda question.
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post #194 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Kabeyun

2. No way it'll have the 970 in it.
- As been said, they'd be nuts to introduce their top chip in a midrange machine and even nutser (?) to charge more for a midrange machine than the 17" AlBook.
- Apple laptops have never got the top chip before or even simultaneously with a desktop model. True of the 68040, the PPC/G3, and the G4. Will be true for the 970.
- As been said, the 17" AlBook is barely out in Europe. Why would Apple trump it now?

I disagree on several points. I think the 15" PB is the top of the line. The 17" is great but due to it's size is more of a niche product.

I believe the G3 came out first in a laptop or perhaps simultaneously with the desktop. There was a link earlier in this thread.

Your arguments would carry more weight if this market had more to do with style. As it is, Apple is up against the wall with regards to technology. They need to get faster hardware out ASAP. The iBook, eMac and iMac can wait a little while longer. The tower and at least one PB, preferably the 15 inch one, needs to be on the cutting edge of technology. The cutting edge now is the IBM 970.

I have argued earlier that a conservative approach would be to release the 970 only in the towers, get a few months experience with it in the field, then release it in a laptop. I haven't changed my mind on this but in my gut I really hope Apple has figured out how to bring out the 970 in a laptop this June. It would be a big boost for them. A 970 based 15 inch PB this summer would be astounding. The same PB delayed till next January would be far less exciting. That is the benefit of time to market.
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post #195 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino23
I disagree on several points. I think the 15" PB is the top of the line. The 17" is great but due to it's size is more of a niche product.

Nevertheless, Apple has set up a hierarchy of 12"/15"/17", both pricewise and featurewise.

Quote:
Your arguments would carry more weight if this market had more to do with style. As it is, Apple is up against the wall with regards to technology. They need to get faster hardware out ASAP. The iBook, eMac and iMac can wait a little while longer. The tower and at least one PB, preferably the 15 inch one, needs to be on the cutting edge of technology. The cutting edge now is the IBM 970.

The iMac has tended to follow the PowerBook technologically (the iMac G4 is one exception, but that was a radical redesign), since the two have to confront the same issues, more or less. The original iMac was basically a Wallstreet (actually, MainStreet) motherboard stuffed under a CRT.

The eMac tends to follow the low-end iMac.

Quote:
A 970 based 15 inch PB this summer would be astounding. The same PB delayed till next January would be far less exciting. That is the benefit of time to market.

Every reason to put a 970 in the 15" is a reason to put it in the 17", and every issue that would make it difficult to put a 970 in the 15" (price, battery life, heat dissipation, etc.) is better addressed in the 17".

I'm also hoping that Apple will do with the 970 what they did with the G3 and roll it out in the portable line promptly (as long as they don't charge $6500 for the privilege!), but I remain skeptical. Unfortunately, I don't see many attractive options for Apple - I don't think they want to wait for the 7457.
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post #196 of 329
Of course, everyone predicting the IBM 970 won't be in the next revision of the ~15" Powerbook is totally contradicting the venerable MacWishper's predictions.

Wait a minute, MacWispers isn't predicting, he has insider knowledge through emails with Taiwan suppliers, so his statements are to taken as fact.

Amendment: I do hope he's right, though. As that would most likely mean a simultaneous release with Powermac's
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post #197 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by rickag
MacWishpers

Was this intentional? If so, it's very funny.
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post #198 of 329
I can't see what the problem is. The Powerbooks were last updated half a year ago come late June/early July. And the Ti-Book some time late last year.

970 to 'go' makes perfect sense to me. Apple get to blitz their pro-line ahead of schedule: that can mean money, lots of money. Everytime Apple can deliver ahead of the curve they can get sales and at least temporary growth.

Any company that is selling almost half its line in laptops can't be doing too badly. (The laptops that good? Or the desktops that bad? Bit of both?) Either way, imagine the sales if Apple had the 970 in their laptop?

I'd certainly think long and hard about a 17 incher Powerbook with a dual 970!

I think there's alot going for the dual 970 debut in towers and pro-laptops (if the 'Year of the Laptop' has any substance to it whatsoever...)

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #199 of 329
What about the OS?

Presumably the 970 will require Panther. Panther will not be available till Septemberish. That would argue that, even if the 970 is annouced in June, it will not be usable till sometime in September.

With only three months till then I doubt that Apple would release a G4 based PB if they intended to come out with a 970 based PB in September. This would argue that we are in a holding pattern till then.

The alternative would be for Apple to make an interemediate version of OS X ( 10.2.7?) which would run the 970 in 32 bit mode. Would this be worthwhile for just a three month head start? Perhaps OS X 10.2 support would be useful anyway. There might be some unforseen issues with 64 bit operation that make this attractive from an engineering standpoint as a backup position.

Maybe it makes sense financially as well. The new financial quarter starts in July. If Apple can sell the 970 starting in July that gives them one extra quarter to capitalize on the newness of the 970. If sales go up by some 100,000 machines for the quarter (wild ass guess) that is about 300M$ addition revenue. Not bad.
Unofficial AppleScript Studio Lobbyist
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Unofficial AppleScript Studio Lobbyist
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post #200 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Was this intentional? If so, it's very funny.

guilty as charged
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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