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When will we see a 15" Albook? - Page 8

post #281 of 329
All I want is a 15" powerbook, the current one would do me, but I don't see the point in at such a late date then being outdated. I could at least get them cheaper!

Honestly, as stated above, why would apple delay the new 15 update that they have obviously got waiting as they're depleting stocks of the current Ti books unless they're working on a NEW pb, not just an update...

A G5 powerbook... Man, i'd cry!!! I don't want a desktop, and that would easily replace a desktop fo' real!
post #282 of 329
You know something tells me that we will get a G5 powerbook. I mean they have waited and waited and waited to update the 15". Is it really because they were waiting for availability of a mobile graphics card from ATI?

My take is this: they waited till they announced the G5 in the flagship line, the towers. Apple never seems to release more than one flagship product in one day. They are letting the G5 PowerMac have its day. I mean they made that huge promotional video! So for maximum press exposure, I think they keep it to two things at the most. This event (in my opinion) wouldn't have been successful press-wise if they had:

-the flagship new OS update
-the flagship new PowerMac
-the flagship new PowerBook (the 15" is the flagship one in my opinion)

So if one does exist, they'll send out a press release or a small apple event. This thing isn't getting a revolutionary new case design, it is getting the aluminum casing. The PowerMac has it! So if a G5 powerbook is here we already know what its going to look like, we know the G5 exists now too. So possibly a press event in a week or so isn't that unrealistic.

My other point is this: if they aren't putting in a G5 in a powerbook and planning instead to introduce it in January, then how the heck are they going to fit an even hotter G4 in these laptops??? I mean realistically, I think that 1ghz, in my opinion, probably is the hottest they can get these things into a powerbook. I think we'll see 1.2ghz G5 soon....
post #283 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by iDave
There could be a big reason.

the same big reason why we got small speedbump after small speedbump of the G4tower, no speedbumped imac for over 13months, still no new ibook and no new pb 15": buying time

apple wants to be the first to have 64bits computing only (it will take some time but they will). they needed a big leap to start with, so there is space for lower-end (imac etc.) to get a G5 @1.2 or 1.4Ghz. that's why they started with a 1.6Ghz low end.

the only problem is heat, thats why the new powermac is a perforated box. will the imac get a perforated dome for it's cooling? will the powebook get a perforated shell? i don't think so. but cooling is essential.

apple needs the G5 in his powerbook for sure, asap, but it's possible we have to wait till mwsf2004. because of cooling and other enginering problems. but if we have to wait that long i geuss we have the complete pb-line propelled by G5's by then
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post #284 of 329
As I'm sure has been posted elsewhere, it'll probably be the Motorola 7457 (G4+? G4.5?) and not the G5. The skinny from The Register, as alluded to in MacRumors.com.

Fine by me. I just want the friggin' thing already. Apple's trying our collective patience. I may have to fold and get a Vaio.



-K
post #285 of 329
An Al 15.4" PB with a newer G4 would be great. Of course I would like a G5. But if it is not coming out _right now_ then bring on the G4. A little faster, longer battery life, brighter screen, airport extreme, backlit keyboard, better GPU. I'm ready. I've got the funds. I just need Apple to ship this.
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post #286 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino23
An Al 15.4" PB with a newer G4 would be great. Of course I would like a G5. But if it is not coming out _right now_ then bring on the G4. A little faster, longer battery life, brighter screen, airport extreme, backlit keyboard, better GPU. I'm ready. I've got the funds. I just need Apple to ship this.

Preach on, brother man. I'm starting a new job next month that could really use the help of a PB. Unless the 15" TiBook comes bundled with a dunce cap, I have to wait.

-K
post #287 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino23
An Al 15.4" PB with a newer G4 would be great. Of course I would like a G5. But if it is not coming out _right now_ then bring on the G4. A little faster, longer battery life, brighter screen, airport extreme, backlit keyboard, better GPU. I'm ready. I've got the funds. I just need Apple to ship this.

I agree, need a 15" 1.2 GHz with DDR and longer battery life, better screen. Been waiting to replace my 15" PB500. I'll take one now, cash-in-hand.
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post #288 of 329
Nice to know I'm not alone.

For the record, I'd rather have a G4 that got great battery life and reasonably low heat and all over a G5 that just demanded to be plugged in and that you couldn't hold for more than 12 seconds because it doubled as a camping stove.



maybe the G5 just isn't meant for a portable?
post #289 of 329
I'm with you, nothing wrong with the G4, PB. the next upgrade for the 15" will be the Dell screen 15.4" , and all the othe little things from the 17". The 15" is Apples best seller amoung the PB, so they will do everything to maX out the profit on this one. Sure wrap it with Al etc...just eye candy
post #290 of 329
That's all I want, basically: the guts/features/vibe of the 17" shrunk a couple of inches...



I'll even do without the light-up keyboard, although I DO think that's a cool, "high-end user" feature and SHOULD BE ON ALL POWERBOOKS, 12", 15" AND 17"!!!

Just as DVI and L3 cache...

I guess we'll get it between now and Halloween. That's my guess! Any wagers?

post #291 of 329
think back to school...huge market..then again so is xmas
post #292 of 329
I dunno. I know a lot of people really need the battery life and what not, but by the same token I'd like to have a serious desktop replacement. To me, it would be great if they made the updated 17" with the 970, or possibly a dual processor configuration (although I think a single 970 would be snappier in terms of general use excluding intensive renderings over a dual processor G4).

From what most people have been saying it sounds like a 15" with good battery life, less weight, and all the goodies of the 17" (plus the lesser price point) would satisfy people who travel a lot or have a desktop at home and use a laptop as an extension. They wouldn't quite need all the power, and would much rather have battery life over processor power, especially if it meant they could travel with it easily and not have to worry about finding a plug in. For those of us like myself, who want to do away with a desktop completely, a 17" with the 970 inside would better fit the bill. Despite the less battery life, and slightly heavier design, we could use the screen real estate and number crunching, and wouldn't mind plugging it in. I'm sure some people would disagree with me, but that's how I feel about it. The real issue comes up though that the Powerbook line is an entity, not singular models so much, and so it's highly unlikely that one model (such as the 17") would be updated with a PPC 970, without the 15" and possibly the 12" (although I would be amazed if they did this to the 12") being updated as well. The idea that one model retains a G4 for less power hungry apps, and one gets a G5 for serious portable computing in the same lineup is pretty slim pickins.

Overall, I still think we will see the 970 PB before years end, again, it wouldn't be "year of the laptop" if it weren't, it would be "year of the desktop" and a new G5 tower. I think Steve Jobs said "year of the laptop" because it's possible to put a G5 into a tower and have it be everything we want it to be, but nobody thinks it's possible to put it into a laptop, so just imagine the amazement when he releases the updated 15" and 17" with PPC970's. Just reading what we're all contemplating, it's easy to see how shocked we would be if it came out in the next few months, and we're Mac nuts, not even the general public or serious PC contenders. Apple's already mopped the floor with Pentium 4, just imagine if we could also hang Intel out to dry with a mobile PPC 970. I think that's exactly what Steve Jobs is trying to do in a single season.

-CFPC
post #293 of 329
Will we see the new PowerBooks this week at NECC in Seattle? Apple will be there.
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post #294 of 329
Based on my review of major announcements from apple this year they have done a good job of spacing announcements to maximize coverage. Thay may be waiting to milk the g5/panther coverage as long as possible, then to announce a g5-64-bit laptop. Maybe in a few weeks we will see one.
post #295 of 329
I usually don't like predicting Apple delivery dates, but I bet the 15" is very close as well. I assume it will be a top-of-the-line G4+.

I am also in the camp of "This needs to be a desktop replacement." If battery life is more important to you, get an iBook....also cheaper graphics and more robust design.

Also off topic....I would really love to see an Aluminum iMac with ventilation holes and made more shiney, like the LCD armature! Retro and COOL!
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post #296 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by ConvertedFromPC
... For those of us like myself, who want to do away with a desktop completely, a 17" with the 970 inside would better fit the bill. Despite the less battery life, and slightly heavier design, we could use the screen real estate and number crunching, and wouldn't mind plugging it in. I'm sure some people would disagree with me, but that's how I feel about it....

Hmmm. Why not go for the 15 inch PB for the ease of travel and when at home plug into a cinema display to get the benefit of larger real estate (and a second screen)? That is my plan. If you were going to work remotely for a few weeks on a job you could even have your cinema display shipped ahead.
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post #297 of 329
Considering the cooling on a G5. I still don't see it.

It seems next year all the way. Read the tea leaves all you like. But Apple won't get the Towers shipping until Sept' in volume...

I think we'll see a DLD and iMac2 bump/headless Mac before we see a G5 Powerbook.

1.3 G4 tops.

A low power 970 isn't out the equation yet. But what about the power sucked by the rest of the system? In a 1 inch enclosure?

Wanna fry eggs?

0.09 970s aren't due until next year, surely!

So we aint gonna see Powerbook 970 any time this year. I'd like it to.

But it just doesn't make sense to me.

Look for the 12 inch Powerbook to go to 1 gig. The 15 and 17 to go 1.3 G4. It's so Apple. If there's a dual 1.3 in the 17 incher? Big surprise. That's all the cpu wow you'll get this year.

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post #298 of 329
Didn't the story go that if you underclocked a G5 down to 1-1.2 GHz, the wattage output was no higher than a G4 7455?

If true, that could suit a PowerBook update perfectly!

However, I agree with you there will be no PowerBook G5 for a year.
post #299 of 329
There was an update yesterday on MOSR with mention of the new G4 PBs. They may not be a paragon of rumor virtue but what they're saying now is reasonable. Even Motorola's page on the 7457 has changed. They're now saying 133 MHz bus instead of 200 and 2MB backside L3 instead of 4. My guess is that this more accurately reflects what will end up in the next PB revs.

I'm anxiously awaiting a 15" AlBook myself but I'm only expecting a 1.2 GHz G4 with DDR266 memory and a decent GPU. I'm hoping for an announcement in the next 2 to 3 weeks with shipping to begin by August. I think the delay is mostly due to how long it's taking Mot to ramp up the 7457.

The development cycle of the 970 is interesting. By the time it's scaled down to .09µ and suitable for inclusion in a PB, the G6 desktop will be about ready to ship and then the gripes begin about how long it's taking to get a G6 into a PB.
post #300 of 329
Exactly!

"Cool, did you see where Apple unveiled the new G6 towers today?"

"Apple SUCKS! I want a G6 PowerBook..."

"Hey dipshit, you just bought your G5 PowerBook two weeks ago - the morning it was announced - and it's already more than you can handle or would ever need...WHAT would you do with a G6?"

"Yeah, well...shup up!".

post #301 of 329
That would be a TOTAL sweet PowerBook: 1.2GHz (more or less...okay, more!) and 2MB L3 cache. Be cool if they got the bus up a bit too, just to humor us.



Have that on the speed/power end. Then have FireWire 800, Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme, Gigabit Ethernet, USB (think it'll be 2.0?), modem, DVI, etc. on the I/O

1GB RAM, 60-80GBs and 2x SuperDrive on the memory/storage/optical front.

16:10 15.4 display with same vertical resolution as before (854 pixels) and 64MB graphics) on the display.

All in a sexy aluminum bod with - maybe - backlit keys?

Oooooooooooooooooooooooo!

And for $799!

post #302 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
That would be a TOTAL sweet PowerBook: 1.2GHz (more or less...okay, more!) and 2MB L3 cache. Be cool if they got the bus up a bit too, just to humor us.



Have that on the speed/power end. Then have FireWire 800, Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme, Gigabit Ethernet, USB (think it'll be 2.0?), modem, DVI, etc. on the I/O

1GB RAM, 60-80GBs and 2x SuperDrive on the memory/storage/optical front.

16:10 15.4 display with same vertical resolution as before (854 pixels) and 64MB graphics) on the display.

All in a sexy aluminum bod with - maybe - backlit keys?

Oooooooooooooooooooooooo!

And for $799!


Yep, that's what I want, all right. I'm willing to pay a few dollars more, though. Yeah, 2x DVD-R would be excellent!

Speaking of 'Books, I enjoyed seeing all the Geek Cruise folks with their 'Books on CBS Sunday Morning! There were clamshell and chicklet iBooks, TiBooks and AlBooks. Nuthin' like having your nose buried in your 'Book while cruising the Pacific Islands.
post #303 of 329
Okay, I shot a bit low...I'd gladly pay the current $2599 for a model spec-ed like the one I described in my last post. NO problem with that at all.



BTW, MOSR (not that I'm putting too much stock in anything they say) mention the new 15.4" screen at "1280x854..." (or slightly more, depending).

That means - if MOSR is anywhere near clued-in...and that's a HUGE "if" - the screen only got .2" larger and kept the same, current 16:11 ratio?



As I talked about in a thread weeks ago, I'm REALLY hoping this 15.4" represents a new widescreen 16:10 ratio. If so, then the vertical resolution - assuming it stays put from the TiBook - would be 854 and the horizontal is something like 1366, give or take. Nice and wide, with room for much palletes and iChat and collapsed iTunes.

Here is an example of how a 16:10 screen with the vertical resolution of 854 would be.

I could handle that!

post #304 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Considering the cooling on a G5. I still don't see it.

The 970 documents show the 1.8GHz model using 42 watts (1.3V), and the 1.2GHz using 19 watts (1.1V). My understanding of the current processors in the PowerBook is 16-22 watts. Why do you feel heat would be such an issue with the 1.2GHz 970?

John
post #305 of 329
We only have the barest pieces of the puzzle to figure out whether Apple could put a G5 in a PB. The public information is pretty sparse.

The oft cited value of about 19W at 1.2GHz for the G5 may be true but it doesn't speak to the power management capabilities. Perhaps the G5 always runs at that level while the G4 can throttle down to something much less when it is idling. How about the power requirements of the rest of the system when the bus is running much faster? The devil is in the details like this.

Something like this must be going on. The battery in a Ti PB has a capacity of about 45 Watt-hours or so. At a draw of 19W you'd get a little over two hours use. Considering the LCD, HD and other chips also use power then you'd have to figure considerably less than two hours battery time with a 20W processor. Since a new battery can power the Ti Book for over four hours the G4 must have a mode that uses considerably less than 20W and so the G5 won't go into a PB till it has the same behavior.
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post #306 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino23
We only have the barest pieces of the puzzle to figure out whether Apple could put a G5 in a PB. The public information is pretty sparse.

The oft cited value of about 19W at 1.2GHz for the G5 may be true but it doesn't speak to the power management capabilities. Perhaps the G5 always runs at that level while the G4 can throttle down to something much less when it is idling. How about the power requirements of the rest of the system when the bus is running much faster? The devil is in the details like this.

The 970 is also capable of throttling down. In fact, the top-end PowerMac actually runs both CPUs at 1.3GHz, and only gooses them up to 2GHz when the computation load requires it. This probably goes a long way to keeping the machine quiet under normal use.

Something like that would certainly be possible in a PowerBook: A 1.2GHz 970 that actually ran at 700MHz or so by default, and only ramped up to full speed if the load suddenly got heavy and it was plugged into a wall.

Note also the rumor that Apple is aggressively looking into fuel cell technology for batteries. There's no way that'll appear in the next revision, but it certainly demonstrates that they're looking for something better than the tech they have.
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post #307 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
(snip)As I talked about in a thread weeks ago, I'm REALLY hoping this 15.4" represents a new widescreen 16:10 ratio. If so, then the vertical resolution - assuming it stays put from the TiBook - would be 854 and the horizontal is something like 1366, give or take. Nice and wide, with room for much palletes and iChat and collapsed iTunes.

Here is an example of how a 16:10 screen with the vertical resolution of 854 would be.

I could handle that!


Dell's 15.4" UltraSharp displays come in 3 resolutions: 1280 x 800 WXGA, 1680 x 1050 WSXGA+, and 1920 x 1200 WUXGA. The Ti is 1280 x 854. I hope we get get something easy on the eyes. What's up with the weird pixel ratio on the Dell?
post #308 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
Dell's 15.4" UltraSharp displays come in 3 resolutions: 1280 x 800 WXGA, 1680 x 1050 WSXGA+, and 1920 x 1200 WUXGA. The Ti is 1280 x 854. I hope we get get something easy on the eyes. What's up with the weird pixel ratio on the Dell?

Weird pixel ratio? They're all exactly 16:10.

I would positively kill for a 1920x1200. 1680x1050 would be quite nice too. Of course, Apple will use the 1280x800.

Hurry up with the "being able to scale the entire interface arbitrarily" thing, Apple. Then you can make us both happy, and have some of the sharpest displays in existence.
post #309 of 329
Yeah, just running the calculation, 1280x800 is indeed a 16:10 ratio, so I'd be totally thrilled with that. The vertical (800) is a tad lower res than the current TiBook, BUT the display itself is going to be a tad shorter in height, so it all probably works out just great.

800 sits nicely between 768 (what I'm currently used to) and the TiBook's 854, so I can dig that.

Of course, now I need to re-do my mockup screen to get a feel for what that's like (1280x800).

post #310 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander
Weird pixel ratio? They're all exactly 16:10.

I would positively kill for a 1920x1200. 1680x1050 would be quite nice too. Of course, Apple will use the 1280x800.

Hurry up with the "being able to scale the entire interface arbitrarily" thing, Apple. Then you can make us both happy, and have some of the sharpest displays in existence.

Why in the world would ANYONE want those two higher resolutions on a 15" screen? Are you nuts?



It would be damn near impossible to see anything! 1280x800 is probably really good at 15.4" @ 16:10. I'll dig it to no end...
post #311 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Why in the world would ANYONE want those two higher resolutions on a 15" screen? Are you nuts?
It would be damn near impossible to see anything! 1280x800 is probably really good at 15.4" @ 16:10. I'll dig it to no end...

Three words; enlarge your fonts. 1680x1050 sounds great to me. I have a hard time running GoLive on my TiBook (1280x854) with a page window, site window and palettes all open. A few more pixels in each direction would be a big help! (Please don't tell me to buy an external display. I work with the computer on my lap.)
post #312 of 329
One word: no. My fonts are fine.

And I wouldn't tell you to do anything...I figure you know your work habits and desires more than I do.

post #313 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by ouroboros
My other point is this: if they aren't putting in a G5 in a powerbook and planning instead to introduce it in January, then how the heck are they going to fit an even hotter G4 in these laptops??? I mean realistically, I think that 1ghz, in my opinion, probably is the hottest they can get these things into a powerbook.

With the die-shrink the 7457 should run cooler than the 7455.
post #314 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
One word: no. My fonts are fine.


I was going to let this go since this has been debated elsewhere many times. However, I couldn't.

Lots of folks argue that with higher resolution displays they would have trouble seeing stuff. What can't they see? If the type is too small, enlarge it. It's true that some type, such as that in menus and dialog boxes can't be enlarged (yet) but I would argue that OS X system fonts are large enough that they could be easily read even if resolution were to reach, say, 140 pixels per inch. 140 ppi is approximately what the resolution would be if a 15.4 inch display was 1680x1050 pixels.

I've thought about buying a 17" Big Al PowerBook to gain some screen real estate but its screen is only 1440x900, only a slight advantage over the 1280x854 of the 15.2" TiBook I have now.

So as not to get too far off topic, I would really like to see a new 15.4" aluminum PowerBook with a higher resolution than the rumored 1280x800, and at the same time, a 17" model that's higher than the current 1440x900. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I really believe higher resolution displays would be much better than what Apple currently offers.
post #315 of 329
Quote:
Lots of folks argue that with higher resolution displays they would have trouble seeing stuff. What can't they see? If the type is too small, enlarge it. It's true that some type, such as that in menus and dialog boxes can't be enlarged (yet) but I would argue that OS X system fonts are large enough that they could be easily read even if resolution were to reach, say, 140 pixels per inch. 140 ppi is approximately what the resolution would be if a 15.4 inch display was 1680x1050 pixels.

Yeah, try any palette on any pro app and see how useful your eye-straining resolutions are.

can i get a DOH.
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post #316 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by cowerd
Yeah, try any palette on any pro app and see how useful your eye-straining resolutions are.

can i get a DOH.

Good point. Text in palettes is plenty small and as far as I can tell, not adjustable (at least not in Photoshop and GoLive).

DOH, rethinking my position...
post #317 of 329
The 970 wont appear in the Pbook until the wattage comes down (ie, after a die shrink). People are throwing around wattage numbers for both the 7455 and 970 that are not correct.

Apple is once again (and hopefully for the last time) waiting for Moto to get in gear with the 7457. It is late, but if the Register is to be trusted (which, of course, it isn't) Moto have accelerated the schedule by a quarter. The 7457 should be great for the Powerbook, especially at 1.3GHz or so.

Regarding screen resolution, I think that Apple tries to maintain true WYSIWYG, so if you are typing a 10pt font, it really is 10pt on screen. The newer displays don't follow this, though. However, regarding pallet sizes, menu bars, etc, it seems that this is simple enough for Apple to fix via APIs. Rather than the size of such objects be specified in pixels (which change), it should be specified as a true size instead. That way, no matter the resolution, the size of the object remains the same correct size (in Apple's eyes). As resolution goes up, the objects will just look better, as more pixels are used to create them. I am sure some of the knowledgeable staff will correct me on this, but it seems like it should work.
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post #318 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by iDave
Good point. Text in palettes is plenty small and as far as I can tell, not adjustable (at least not in Photoshop and GoLive).

DOH, rethinking my position...

See?
post #319 of 329
Quote:
Originally posted by Thai Moof
The 970 wont appear in the Pbook until the wattage comes down (ie, after a die shrink). People are throwing around wattage numbers for both the 7455 and 970 that are not correct.

If you are talking about my wattage numbers, they were pulled directly off the spec sheets for the 7455 and 970. Why do you feel they were incorrect? Take a look at the 7455 spec sheet (you can find it at Motorola's website): running in full power mode, the processor uses 15-22 watts at 1GHz.

The 19 watts for the 1.2GHz 970 is shown as estimated typical wattage, as per the 970 documentation available on IBM's website. While higher than the 7455, 4 watts more for typical isn't that much higher.

The 970 documentation, however, didn't talk about any nap/doze/sleep modes, so I don't know if they are not available or merely not mentioned.

And take a look at the wattage of the oh-so-wonderful 7457: at 1.3GHz, it consumes 18.7-26.0 watts. Probably in nearly the same range as the 1.2GHz 970. Again, this is all from the spec sheets publicly available on Motorola's website.

This being the case, heat dissipation by the 970 should be very similar to that of the 7455/7457, as should battery life be (assuming the 970 has lower-power operational modes, as do the G4s).

What do you base you "wattage numbers are not correct" statement on?
post #320 of 329
While waiting for the 15" AlBook to ship, it's nice to see there'll be some mighty impressive PBs coming down the pike next year. Macbidouille.com has some believable info regarding that today, saying that the heat problem has been mostly solved but the real problem is the controller on the mobo. Things will be easier once it's onboard the CPU.

The way things look, let's say Apple announces a 15.4" AlBook with 1.2 GHz 7457, along with all the other Al goodies. If the pricing is decent, it'll be a fine PB that should see lots of buyers the rest of this year. Even though I know G5 and G6 PBs are coming next year, that wouldn't stop me from getting an Al now.

Let's say MWSF sees the introduction of the PB G5 at up to 1.4 GHz in January. I'll bet it'll be a bit warm and have marginal battery life, say 2 hrs. (4 within the RDF).

Macbidouille's informant went on to say that PB speeds wouldn't improve until the .09µ process is used. She also says that the G6 would debut at the EOL speed of the G5, about 2.5 to 2.8 GHz. Remember at WWDC Steve said they'd be at 3 GHz in a year? AFAIK, that means the G6 (980) will appear a year from now so maybe the G6 PB will be announced in July, 2004, at 2.8 GHz! Imagine! The speed of the PB could DOUBLE in 6 months!

So, I need a new PB now and I really want a 15" AlBook but I wonder how long I can hold out for a G6 PB.

One thing's for sure, Apple will have an excellent 2nd half of 2003 but it's looking like 2004 will be gangbusters!
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AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › When will we see a 15" Albook?