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Macbidouille: 970's on sale at the end of May

post #1 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:24am
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Loosely translated from here :

Quote:
We have learned from a well-informed source that the first 1.4 GHz single-processor PPC 970's are rolling out of Hon Hai Precision's assembly lines. It's great news since they will be available much earlier than expected.

The single processors will be in stock and on sale at the end of may, and the high-end [machines] will arrive in mid-June, right before WWDC.

The only bad news is that the machines will ship with Mac OS X 10.2, without 64-bits optimization. Buyers will get Mac OS X 10.3 for free when it ships in September.

In this context, unless Apple opposes to it, we will reveal benchmarks by May 15.

At first I thought they were refering to the processors themselves, but they're really talking about the machines. End of may looks really early to me.

-Heady
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post #2 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:32am
Shipping 970 Powermacs with 10.2 makes no sense.. They need the 'big kick' and release it with 64 bit OS support.. It doesnt make sense from a PR view..
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
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"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
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post #3 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:32am
Everything sounds so believable... except the date.

I'll believe it because I want it to be true.
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post #4 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:33am
This site has - suprisingly - been sort of accurate before, right? This report makes great sense in terms of releasing a new 15" PowerBook at the end of May. I mean, why not go ahead and stick a 1GHz 970 in there, huh?

Hope is powerful --- could be an exciting two months!!!
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post #5 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally posted by Heady
Loosely translated from here :



At first I thought they were refering to the processors themselves, but they're really talking about the machines. End of may looks really early to me.

-Heady

it's actually not a bad idea (though this of course, proves nothing), Apple can successfully transition out of their G4 machines, by replacing them (slowly) in the top end with what appears to be "minor" replacements, a single chip 970 at the same clock frequency.

This won't appear to obsolete the entire line instantly (despite the fact it actualy does), so Apple can continue to sell the lower end G4's and clear them out, while - at the same time - take advantage of first 970's that came off IBM's fab.
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post #6 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Shipping 970 Powermacs with 10.2 makes no sense.. They need the 'big kick' and release it with 64 bit OS support.. It doesnt make sense from a PR view..

Underpowered $3000 workstations don't make sense from a PR view either. There is no way that they can afford to hold up faster hardware for a software release.

Besides how many developers would have 64 bit apps ready to go.

I want to believe!
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post #7 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by Nitzer
Underpowered $3000 workstations don't make sense from a PR view either. There is no way that they can afford to hold up faster hardware for a software release.

Besides how many developers would have 64 bit apps ready to go.

I want to believe!


I disagree a little bit. I think this would make sense. a 970 even without 64 bit optimizations would still blow the water out of the G4s. And once a 10.2.xx with a small patch for 64bit or something operations, it'll even get faster. I do not see why they should hold them back. I'd buy it right now if it came out, even if I could only use 10.2 for a few months.
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post #8 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:43am
if a 970 PM or PB is ready, but panther is not, they WILL NOT hold back releasing the PM or PB....the 970 will scream on Jag and be even better on Panther....of course i don't think we will see new PM with 970 in May, but i hope i am wrong.....

g
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it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
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post #9 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally posted by eddively
I disagree a little bit. I think this would make sense. a 970 even without 64 bit optimizations would still blow the water out of the G4s. And once a 10.2.xx with a small patch for 64bit or something operations, it'll even get faster. I do not see why they should hold them back. I'd buy it right now if it came out, even if I could only use 10.2 for a few months.

I think the 3000$ computer was in reference to the current PowerMacs.

Nitzer is saying that staying with the current underpowered G4s is bad PR and that Apple should release the 970 as soon as possible instead of holding them back until Panther.

And like he said, no 64-bit apps are going to be ready anyways, so why not release the 970 now. And even if they were, 64-bit isn't all that amazing for consumers (at least not in the next few years.)
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post #10 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:46am
Doesn't this sync up well with MacWhispers rumors of motherboard outsourcing too?

MacWhispers, March 21

Can I put an order in today?
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post #11 of 301
5/2/03 at 9:48am
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post #12 of 301
5/2/03 at 10:06am


Now that is funny!!!

I could see PPC970s come end of May...

And the idea of rolling out 'equal' clockspeed 970s to replace the current G4s is a sound one... Allows Apple the quarterly rampup of clockspeeds, allows IBM the next year to get some 3+ GHz 970/980s out of the fabs and into the assembly plants...

Still waiting on my Quad 970 3D workstation...

;^p
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post #13 of 301
5/2/03 at 10:18am
Are you suggesting they release a 1.4ghz 970 for $3000, then the next month release a dual 1.6 ghz 970 for $3000 and drop the price of the single 1.4ghz to $2300, and then the month after that release the dual 1.8ghz 970 for $3000 and drop the 1.6 dual to $2300 and 1.4 to $1800.

I know computers lose their value quickly, but $1200 in two months time after launch. I don't think so.

I say:

1.4 single - $1800 - shipping in late may
1.6 dual - $2300 - mid to late june
1.8 dual - $3000 - late june to early july

All prices and specs are purely theoretical (and hopefully will be better).

edit: All announced on the same day -- ship as soon as possible with the above as a projected schedule -- more or less the normal way they release products



ps Dig the poster!
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post #14 of 301
5/2/03 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally posted by OverToasty
Apple can successfully transition out of their G4 machines, by replacing them (slowly) in the top end with what appears to be "minor" replacements, a single chip 970 at the same clock frequency.

Possible, but unlikely. I don't think Apple would want to be selling single 1.4 970s alongside dual 1.42 G4s, that would just be confusing. It's more likely that Steve will announce a complete tower switchover to the 970 at WWDC, which also gives Apple a bit more time to build up inventory for what will almost certainly be a huge demand. I'll be at WWDC and I can't wait to hear the reaction if Steve unveils the 970s and ends with "and they're shipping TODAY".
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post #15 of 301
5/2/03 at 10:53am
Pardon my thoughts, but if you planned on releasing the 970s at WWDC or MWNY, wouldn't the machines need to be ready by then? Just because the first model will be done so they can move onto the 2nd model doesn't mean they are going to release them 1 by 1. It would be a massive unvieling, a huge campaign. You can't do that in phases, releasing one model a time. If they are ready, then they can ship immediately after the announcement.

Just sounds like normal product accumulation before release to me. Unless we want the 'shipping in 5 months' situation again.
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post #16 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:00am
Oh, Sensibility, how I scorn thee!!
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"Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments...



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post #17 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:02am
What was the exact timeframe between the announcement of the media event for the ipod and the actaully monday event?

If apple does what macboudle say then we are looking at least that much of a pre announcement if not a little more?
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post #18 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally posted by 3.1416

. . . It's more likely that Steve will announce a complete tower switchover to the 970 at WWDC, which also gives Apple a bit more time to build up inventory for what will almost certainly be a huge demand. I'll be at WWDC and I can't wait to hear the reaction if Steve unveils the 970s and ends with "and they're shipping TODAY".


I agree. If these are coming off the production line now, it makes sense to build up inventory so they will be immediately available.

I like the part where they say, ". . . unless Apple opposes to it, we will reveal benchmarks by May 15." They want us to believe they will soon have one to run benchmarks. They know very well Apple would never give them permission to reveal such information.
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post #19 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally posted by OverToasty
it's actually not a bad idea (though this of course, proves nothing), Apple can successfully transition out of their G4 machines, by replacing them (slowly) in the top end with what appears to be "minor" replacements, a single chip 970 at the same clock frequency.

This won't appear to obsolete the entire line instantly (despite the fact it actualy does), so Apple can continue to sell the lower end G4's and clear them out, while - at the same time - take advantage of first 970's that came off IBM's fab.

The article did say that the single PPC 970 powermac is already in production and will be release in late may. The dual will be avalaible in mid june. The G4 is discounted for Apple salaries with a 30 % drop price (same for the i mac 17 inch).
A people working for Apple Europe said that they know that the 970 was scheduled for june since march.

The period of transition should be short, i think that the dual PPC 970 will be announced in the same time of the release of the single PPC 970, like they did for the G4 733.

Mac bidouille said that they publish a benchmark of the new beast, if Apple will not oppose it.

They also said that the Emac will have a new design and I sync and I chat will be updated (videoconference will be included in I chat).
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post #20 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:06am
The interesting thing to me is that Apple currently assembled PowerMacs in their own plants, at least for the US market. Hon Hai was making 'Books the last time I saw their name associated with Apple. Maybe this new form requires the expertise of a notebook maker?

If this is true, then I agree with KidRed that they'll be stockpiling for a big rollout of products "available today," and this is why they delayed WWDC.

In this case, they will ship with some version of 10.2 because Panther will still be a preview release. But developers will be able to take home hardware to best preview it with.
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post #21 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:12am
Exactly. The 64 bit Panther is not known by all the 25 milliom mac uses. Just us few fanatics So, Apple won't be hard pressed to release the 970 w/Panther, they can easliy contine on schedule and release it when it's ready. Then they can say optimized for the 970 or something. Or bringing the power of 64 bits to the mac platform-970 required.

Either way, this will be a fun summer
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post #22 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:15am
mini poll:

a) announcement of all machines in late may, availialbity of some models rolled out over june/july

b) massive build up of machines so june WWDC, steve can say "Shipping Today!"
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post #23 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:17am
It (rumours/etc) just all make too much sense for it to be real, but all the pieces fit together.
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post #24 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
It (rumours/etc) just all make too much sense for it to be real, but all the pieces fit together.

Please be quiet. I want to pretend it's all impossible.

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post #25 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:27am
Apple sold Dual Proc. Powermacs w/ OS 9, when only OS X and special software.

Possible...
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post #26 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardf12
mini poll:

a) announcement of all machines in late may, availialbity of some models rolled out over june/july

b) massive build up of machines so june WWDC, steve can say "Shipping Today!"

Realistically I choose B. I think they'll need quite a bit of buildup on the lowend box when they announce these beasties. Pent up demand would be an understatement.

The question was asked about the lead time for the iPod event. The news of the event broke on April 21, 7 days before the actual event took place.
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post #27 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally posted by MJE
Apple sold Dual Proc. Powermacs w/ OS 9, when only OS X and special software.

Right. And remember a 970 running Jaguar is nowhere near as crippled as a dual G4 running OS 9. The only limitation is that it wouldn't be able to run 64-bit apps, of which there are currently zero. It's actually better to release the 970s before Panther, because it gives developers time to get their 64-bit versions ready.
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post #28 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:37am
If the lowend 970 PMs are rolling out as soon as the end of may and the next model sometime in June, doesn't it seem that they'll do what they did with this past PM update and have the first two models available while the second one not for 3-5 weeks? I wouldn't mind that at all as the lowend and middle model are what most people are able to afford.
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post #29 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:42am
question:

why delay WWDC to june if machines are to be released in May?

? the delay honestly was for panther
? machines Won't be announced until June
? Screw it. Let's Ship them!
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post #30 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:46am
They could ship the new 970's with the PR release of Panther at the WWDC. So early adopters would get a 64 bit system with at least a PR of the 64 bit OS. And then the free upgrade to the official release version of the 64 bit OS X . whatever they call it.
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post #31 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by Nitzer
Are you suggesting they release a 1.4ghz 970 for $3000, then the next month release a dual 1.6 ghz 970 for $3000 and drop the price of the single 1.4ghz to $2300, and then the month after that release the dual 1.8ghz 970 for $3000 and drop the 1.6 dual to $2300 and 1.4 to $1800.

I know computers lose their value quickly, but $1200 in two months time after launch. I don't think so.

I say:

1.4 single - $1800 - shipping in late may
1.6 dual - $2300 - mid to late june
1.8 dual - $3000 - late june to early july

All prices and specs are purely theoretical (and hopefully will be better).

edit: All announced on the same day -- ship as soon as possible with the above as a projected schedule -- more or less the normal way they release products



ps Dig the poster!

If what I have read is correct the 970 should be close to the G4's price, therefore the $1800 price tag is quite a jump for the bottom end model. the "Sweet Spot" for a PowerMac would be $1299 in my opinion, though I would expect $1499, $1599, or at worst $1699.
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post #32 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:49am
The issue of the 64-bit OS doesn't make sense to me. It was my understanding that the OS would NEED TO be updated for the 970. After that, we're just talking about app support - FCP would probably get an upgrade to 64-bitness, but the vast majority of Apple's apps wouldn't need it at all. Do we really need a 64-bit Finder?

BTW, Macbedoobie is a whore. I don't think they have any sources. The way to get hits is to tell us what we want to hear. They are "The Register" of 2003.
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post #33 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardf12
question:

why delay WWDC to june if machines are to be released in May?

? the delay honestly was for panther
? machines Won't be announced until June
? Screw it. Let's Ship them!

When they delayed WWDC, they didn't know precisely when the machines would be ready. Turns out the 970 macs (low end at least) are ready almost a month early. So yeah, screw it, ship 'em! 8)
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post #34 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardf12
question:

why delay WWDC to june if machines are to be released in May?

? the delay honestly was for panther
? machines Won't be announced until June
? Screw it. Let's Ship them!

1 is certainly possible. 2 is my guess. The two aren't mutually exclusive: i.e., Apple had planned to release the 970 in September with Panther, but when it was available in quantity sooner they negotiated a release date between when enough machines would be available for a launch, and when Panther could be sufficiently spiffed up for a public preview.

I have to wonder what else they're rolling into Panther, though. It seems to me that 64 bit support isn't all that and all that - they could roll it into Server. If they have a preview ready, we must be about to take a big step forward, and/or the machines have some new capability that Panther will especially take advantage of.
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post #35 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:53am
Quote:
BTW, Macbedoobie is a whore. I don't think they have any sources. The way to get hits is to tell us what we want to hear. They are "The Register" of 2003.

they nailed a few things before.including photos of mirror macs?


i'd bet they have VERY good euro apple division sources. But not as good sources outside of europe?
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post #36 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:55am
Quote:
I have to wonder what else they're rolling into Panther, though. It seems to me that 64 bit support isn't all that and all that - they could roll it into Server. If they have a preview ready, we must be about to take a big step forward, and/or the machines have some new capability that Panther will especially take advantage of.

You like if the new 970s have some killer vector processor or super altivec, we won't see it being used by those machines until panther? makes sense...
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post #37 of 301
5/2/03 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
The issue of the 64-bit OS doesn't make sense to me. It was my understanding that the OS would NEED TO be updated for the 970. After that, we're just talking about app support - FCP would probably get an upgrade to 64-bitness, but the vast majority of Apple's apps wouldn't need it at all. Do we really need a 64-bit Finder?

BTW, Macbedoobie is a whore. I don't think they have any sources. The way to get hits is to tell us what we want to hear. They are "The Register" of 2003.

A minor update to 10.2 would get it to run on the 970. 10.3 brings 64 bit support. No most apps don't need 64 bitness, but photoshop, fcp, database systems, etc. will make use of it. Whole new applications may be possible with a 64 bit desktop.

FYI, Macbedoobie was the source of the pix of the MDD PowerMacs last year. In my experience everyone is a whore. I know I am.
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post #38 of 301
5/2/03 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally posted by KidRed
Pardon my thoughts, but if you planned on releasing the 970s at WWDC or MWNY, wouldn't the machines need to be ready by then? Just because the first model will be done so they can move onto the 2nd model doesn't mean they are going to release them 1 by 1. It would be a massive unvieling, a huge campaign. You can't do that in phases, releasing one model a time.

*cough cough* Flat Panel iMac *cough*
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post #39 of 301
5/2/03 at 12:27pm
One of the sites (I can't remember which one) had a note about 10.2.6 coming soon. That could include 970 support if the machines are really going to be ready this early. I'm skeptical, but Apple is under a lot of pressure to improve their PowerMac sales and if they really can get them out the door a full 3-4 months ahead of Panther then I suppose they'd probably go for it. The idea of starting with single processor 1.4 GHz machines and a 32-bit OS does give them the appearance of a smoother transition from their existing dual G4 machines. That might get around some of the "old stock" issues that they are likely going to have.

Only time will tell and I'll believe it when I see it.
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post #40 of 301
5/2/03 at 12:37pm
There will be a 10.2.6 update to Jaguar. The few changes needed to run on the IBM 970 could be included? Just a thought.



Edit: Sorry Programmer, your post came it while I was typing mine.
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