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Macbidouille: 970's on sale at the end of May - Page 4

post #121 of 301
5/5/03 at 2:47am
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
THis is all such Bull Sh*t. I find it soo unreal I can't believe this cr@p even get's posted.

Thanks for the sophisticated, intelligent reply. Read the top and bottom of the post and don't bother me again
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post #122 of 301
5/5/03 at 2:51am
Quote:
Originally posted by DrBoar
Mark G
The Pro =IBM and imac/book=Motorola has a serious problem. And that is the very slow scaling of Motorola. Initially the iProduct can keep up at a allmost suitable distance from the professional line by jumping from 1 GHz G4 to 1.4 GHz. The problem is that one 970 at 1.5 GHz corresponds to a G4 running at 2.5 to 5 GHz. So very soon if not right away the G4 will be to far behind to be a viable budget alternative.
The 601 CPU came in 1994 and in about two years it was replaced byt the 604 as the leading CPU. And about two years later the G3 took over the lead. The G4 came 1999 so it is about two years overdue to be replaced.

A G4 at 1.42 GHz seem to be running quite hot, a 900 MHz 970 would have about parity in integers be twise as fast in floating point calculation and perhaps be faster in Altivec as well and still run cooler...

In my mind Motorola is on its way out, fast! How fast? I do not have a clue but my guess is that the only "new" Macintoshes with Motorola CPUs will be during this year and it will be similar to the new iBook.
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post #123 of 301
5/5/03 at 2:54am
Quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
Thanks for the sophisticated, intelligent reply. Read the top and bottom of the post and don't bother me again

I don't think he was targeting you Mark, but macdoobiedoo.
Former WWDC Watchdog.
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post #124 of 301
5/5/03 at 2:58am
Who knows. who really cares
I have said my piece, everyone loves to gossip about Apple and I felt intrigued eneough to say my piece - be it completely wrong maybe. Only time, and Steve Jobs will be able to tell us.
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post #125 of 301
5/5/03 at 3:03am
I just don't see Apple twiddling their thumbs around with the PowerBooks until next year around this time. That just sucks. I pray somebody's jackin around with MacBidouille (or that they are -- some sort of fancy French retaliation ).
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post #126 of 301
5/5/03 at 5:11am
Quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
Thanks for the sophisticated, intelligent reply. Read the top and bottom of the post and don't bother me again


I was not replying to any post in particular.

I am astonished at the quality of the refer they are getting in france, and amazed that they sold so much of it to the users of this forum. What are the odds?
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post #127 of 301
5/5/03 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally posted by NETROMac
Being seriosly though, does anyone think developeing a high end ($10000-75000) is something that Apple would do.

Yes.
Quote:
Originally posted by NETROMac
There may be a market for such a high-high-end machine, but how big is it.

Big enough if you earn about 10k dollar on the top end model, for each machine sold.
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post #128 of 301
5/5/03 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Big enough if you earn about 10k dollar on the top end model, for each machine sold.

okidoki
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post #129 of 301
5/5/03 at 10:44am
The G4 is not going to go any higher than 1.42Ghz in its current incarnation. The Powerbooks will not be able to take anything higher than 1GHz with the 7455 G4. It just gets to hot! The only way apple is going to be able to update anything this year is to switch the CPU over to the 970. Apple should move their whole product line to the 970 within the next 12 months. If IBM can give apple a range of speeds between 1.2-2.5 by the end of the year apple should have no problem having their whole line use the new chip.

Goes like this:
emac update: 1Ghz G4
PowerBook 15.4" update: 1.2Ghz-1.4Ghz 970
Powermac update: 1.4-1.8Ghz
iMac 17" update: 1.2Ghz 970
iBook upate: 1Ghz G4 of maybe new G3 type chip from IBM

New IBM chip at .09ยต come out in 9 months or so
PowerBook update 1.4Ghz-1.6Ghz 970
PowerMac update: 1.8-2.2Ghz 970
emac 1-1.2Ghz 970
iBook 1-1.2Ghz 970
iMac 1.4GHz 970
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post #130 of 301
5/5/03 at 10:59am
I agree with Algol.

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #131 of 301
5/5/03 at 11:52am
  • Leonis
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Lemon..... KEEP YOUR PROMISE
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post #132 of 301
5/5/03 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
The G4 is not going to go any higher than 1.42Ghz in its current incarnation. The Powerbooks will not be able to take anything higher than 1GHz with the 7455 G4. It just gets to hot! The only way apple is going to be able to update anything this year is to switch the CPU over to the 970. Apple should move their whole product line to the 970 within the next 12 months. If IBM can give apple a range of speeds between 1.2-2.5 by the end of the year apple should have no problem having their whole line use the new chip.

You seem to discount the 7457 which should clock much better than the 7455. It might get up to ~1.6 at a power level suitable for notebooks and even faster for iMacs.

Check out my discussion comparing the Pentium 3 at 180nm with the P3 and Pentium M at 130nm in another thread: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...591#post332591

This is encouraging that a 2nd source can remain in the desktop PPC market giving IBM more incentive to develop high end processors.

MM
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post #133 of 301
5/5/03 at 1:08pm
Here's a question:
Didn't APPL just report on their quarterly earnings? If they intro these boxes as fast a possible, they could see a very helpful boost in the numbers for this quarter. The sooner they intro, the longer the window for users to buy before the end of the quarter. Seems like it could really help their bottom line and maybe take some of that stock holder pressure off Steve's neck. Just a thought.

tsukurite
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post #134 of 301
5/5/03 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Lemon..... KEEP YOUR PROMISE

Oh, I will.

I've about killed myself today. (I'm the world's worst DIYer...) After much huff and puff...Chrome and glass table (Awaiting 23 inch Cinema display and G5 tower...). Check. Repro antique writers desk (huge thing...) with a little iBook on it. Very sweet. Cherry flooring. Chrome standard lamp. My drawing desk. Art Deco chairs. At long last, I've got the ultimate Mac room with no Mac tower in it. Just need to go and buy the aluminium blinds for the window. (Hmm, do I really want to blight my newly decorated workroom with that Athlon thing I own??!)

Got a work man coming tomorrow to finish the flooring. One plank needed...and the beading to be re-stuck. Hopefully he'll leave the join tidier than when he first came...bout wrecked the joint...

Lemon Bon Bon (in a moment of irrelevance...)
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...

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post #135 of 301
5/5/03 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by tsukurite
If they intro these boxes as fast a possible, they could see a very helpful boost in the numbers for this quarter.

Not even the most optimistic predictions have them shipping in quantity in the current quarter (which ends at the end of June). But if Steve announces the 970 at WWDC or shortly thereafter, *next* quarter could be outstanding.
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post #136 of 301
5/5/03 at 2:53pm
  • Leonis
  • AI Community Dictator
CONFIRMED!!!!

Lemon is going nuts today
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post #137 of 301
5/5/03 at 2:54pm
If Apple releases these before WWDC it will be awesome. Rather than demoing Panther on machines that will get shipped one day- it will be a shipping machine.

This possibility with the iTunes Music Store and new iPods whould really help the revenue this quarter.

Go go UP AAPL
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post #138 of 301
5/5/03 at 2:59pm
It has gone up to 16.09 from 13.xx last week. AAPL is on its way up again!!!!!!! YEA! More money for me. If it goes up enough I can just sell some and buy a new comp. I got another 100 shares this morning!! I'm so excited!
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post #139 of 301
5/5/03 at 5:06pm
AAPL has gone up $1.64 today. not a bad leap at all.
onlooker
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post #140 of 301
5/5/03 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Leonis
CONFIRMED!!!!

Lemon is going nuts today

Go away.. Make your own thread..!!!

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post #141 of 301
5/5/03 at 6:47pm
Just a minor point that I think was missed in the early speculation about OS bundling:

Shipping the 970's with 10.2 in May allows Apple to release Panther in Sept/Oct and charge a full $129.00 to the hordes of 970 buyers, who know full well that it will speed up their new machine considerably.

With the AiBooks, iTunes store, 970's and Panther, 2003 is Apple's year of the Revenue!
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post #142 of 301
5/5/03 at 7:42pm
the rumors said 970 owners would get 10.3 upgrade free.
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post #143 of 301
5/5/03 at 9:03pm
Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardf12
the rumors said 970 owners would get 10.3 upgrade free.

and you know that you can always trust the rumours
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post #144 of 301
5/5/03 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally posted by tsukurite
Here's a question:
Didn't APPL just report on their quarterly earnings? If they intro these boxes as fast a possible, they could see a very helpful boost in the numbers for this quarter. The sooner they intro, the longer the window for users to buy before the end of the quarter. Seems like it could really help their bottom line and maybe take some of that stock holder pressure off Steve's neck. Just a thought.

tsukurite

Right, except that Fred Anderson said that they don't expect to earn more than about 5c per share this quarter. I think the plan is to have them available July 1. That way when they announce the machines at WWDC, and when they announce their crummy performance for this quarter mid-July they can say they expect to earn 50c or $1 next quarter and they already have 10 bizillion PowerMacs preordered. Doing it this way prevents Fred from giving blatently false guidance, and makes for a sudden dramatic-looking turnaround (Steve does so like drama). And really, it will probably be just as good for the stock price if they announce that they earned 5c this quarter and expect to earn 50c next quarter as if they announce that they earned 25c this quarter and expect to earn 50c next quarter.
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post #145 of 301
5/5/03 at 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardf12
the rumors said 970 owners would get 10.3 upgrade free.

With Apples up-to-date program, it is almost guarenteed that the 970 PowerMacs would get a free upgrade to 10.3, if 10.3 comes out within 3-4 months of the 970 release.

For example, if you buy DVD Studio Pro 1.5 now, you get a free upgrade to 2.0, which is do out a few months from now.
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post #146 of 301
5/6/03 at 12:41am
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
For example, if you buy DVD Studio Pro 1.5 now, you get a free upgrade to 2.0, which is do out a few months from now.

That's because DVDSP2.0 is already announced.

Panther probably won't be officially announced on WWDC - only previewed.
JLL

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post #147 of 301
5/6/03 at 2:23am
What is WWDC anyway? Developer Conference. What worries most developers as opposed to users? I dare say it's the operating system. Let me elaborate.
Most software developers, especially "small" ones, $10 shareware-makers and such, don't give a damn about 64-bitness. I doubt I will ever write any 64-bit app. Use likely, write hardly ever. Most coders don't even want to know all the guts of a CPU if they have a compiler to do the worst assembly-level optimizations. Yes, everybody loves fast machines, but developers love compatibility much more. Of course, there are hardware developers and hardcore coders who need to know every gory detail about the CPU and system architecture. They are, well, 1% of us at the very most.
What is really damn interesting to all developers, big or small, young or old, is the OS and API. And they, I believe, will be the main talk at WWDC. There are many things widely anticipated like GUI enhancements, changes in Quartz, new APIs and a DevTools update. While not completed by WWDC, these will be showcased because there are too many people obsessively interested.

This leads me to think that PPC970-based machines could be released well before Panther and even announced before WWDC to further increase the hype. New Macs don't have to wait for Panther, actually.
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post #148 of 301
5/6/03 at 2:27am
Former WWDC Watchdog.
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post #149 of 301
5/6/03 at 2:34am
Oh, and just one more thing. Apple's hardware and software announcements should not be considered as a whole because Apple has to compete with both Wintel and Microsoft, respectively. I mean Apple sells both boxes and OS, while Intel/AMD represent hardware only and M$ software only (mainly).
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post #150 of 301
5/6/03 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally posted by JBL
Right, except that Fred Anderson said that they don't expect to earn more than about 5c per share this quarter. I think the plan is to have them available July 1. That way when they announce the machines at WWDC, and when they announce their crummy performance for this quarter mid-July they can say they expect to earn 50c or $1 next quarter and they already have 10 bizillion PowerMacs preordered. Doing it this way prevents Fred from giving blatently false guidance, and makes for a sudden dramatic-looking turnaround (Steve does so like drama).

I hope that this would not be a major consideration. Generally speaking, a dollar today is worth more than a dollar to tomorrow, in both inflationary terms and opportunity costs. Apple has to also take into account their pro users and their impatience with progress. Also, builing up of inventory is expensive also, that is why inventory is watched closely by Wall Street. Of course, if the systems are not ready, they are not ready.

Fred's guidance would include a conservative estimate of the the Music Store, as well as hardware and software sales. It appears that the Music Store has greatly exceeded expectations. I do not know when Apple counts the books the sale to the quarter, whether it is upon payment or shipment, I believe it is shipment. In the past Apple and other companies have issued revisions in estimates as the quarter progressed do to more information. Depending on how much the Music Store cools over the quarter, Apple may have to issue new guidance anyway.
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post #151 of 301
5/6/03 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally posted by 3.1416
Not even the most optimistic predictions have them shipping in quantity in the current quarter (which ends at the end of June). But if Steve announces the 970 at WWDC or shortly thereafter, *next* quarter could be outstanding.

My bad. I wasn't aware when the quarter ended. I suppose less than 8 weeks would be just a *tad* tight to get up to speed.

Nice to read some thoughtful analysis of possible business strategy rather than comments that 'Apple just has to release the 970! It rocks!'.

'Course, it is going to eat Intel's breakfast, lunch, and dinner, no joke.
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post #152 of 301
5/6/03 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
That's because DVDSP2.0 is already announced.

Panther probably won't be officially announced on WWDC - only previewed.

Yes, and my point was that if the 970's are released, and Panther is demoed, the 970s will get a free upgrade. If no mentoined of the 970's happen when Panther is previewed, I woudl bet that the 970s will ship with Panther. So either way a 970 owner will get a "free" copy of Panther.

But how is previewing different form announcing? Apple hasn't set a firm release date for DSP 2.0 yet, just "this summer". They didn't show it off, just put up some info on their website. So if Apple previews Panther, and says it will be out "this summer", and 970's are shipped (or you buy 10.2) I would bet you get the free upgrade to 10.3.
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post #153 of 301
5/6/03 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
But how is previewing different form announcing? Apple hasn't set a firm release date for DSP 2.0 yet, just "this summer". They didn't show it off, just put up some info on their website. So if Apple previews Panther, and says it will be out "this summer", and 970's are shipped (or you buy 10.2) I would bet you get the free upgrade to 10.3.

When Apple previewed Jaguar at WWDC last year, you didn't get a free upgrade if you bought 10.1 after that day.

And remember that a preview of Panther at WWDC is not a public announcement - you have to pay $1400 to see the keynote.

A third point is that this will be a preview of an unfinished product where features can change before release.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #154 of 301
5/6/03 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
When Apple previewed Jaguar at WWDC last year, you didn't get a free upgrade if you bought 10.1 after that day.

Ok, fair enough I didn't realize that. However, if they preview panther, and then say "it will be out this summer" I would then expect a 10.2 purchaser to get the upgrade free (or for 19.95 or however the up-to-date program works).

Quote:
And remember that a preview of Panther at WWDC is not a public announcement - you have to pay $1400 to see the keynote.

Whats funny is that I live in San Jose, and WWDC used to be there (until this year). The local news staitons would all do reports about it. Mentioning that Apple was holding a conference at the San Jose Convention Center, they would mention what was talked about (if it had any consumer relevance). So if Panther is previewed (and it was in SJ) I would bet to see a short blurb on it.

Quote:
A third point is that this will be a preview of an unfinished product where features can change before release.

We don't know what stage it is at. It could be previewed like DP3 was previewed. It could be previewed like Jag was. Or it could be previewed as a finished product, with a release date in a month.
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post #155 of 301
5/6/03 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
We don't know what stage it is at. It could be previewed like DP3 was previewed. It could be previewed like Jag was. Or it could be previewed as a finished product, with a release date in a month.

No we don't, but I don't think it will be close to finished.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #156 of 301
5/6/03 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
No we don't, but I don't think it will be close to finished.

I somewhat agree, and don't know how this will impact the release of the 970. From what I understand, the 970 (like any new Apple hardware) will need some modification to the OS to run (like the Powerbooks shipping with 10.2.4, when 10.2.3 was all that was out, or the different builds of 10.1.5 that were available for the new hardware, etc). The 64-bitness wont "come out" until Panther (probably), however the 970 will be a fully functional machine with 10.2.6.

Looking back, 10.1 was out in September. 10.2 was also out in September (wasn't it?) I would bet that 10.3 is out in September as well.
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post #157 of 301
5/6/03 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
It has gone up to 16.09 from 13.xx last week. AAPL is on its way up again!!!!!!! YEA! More money for me. If it goes up enough I can just sell some and buy a new comp. I got another 100 shares this morning!! I'm so excited!

Over $17 right now, it's been under $15 for months. This is great. The 970 is due shortly, then wow, I might have to pick up a few more shares. Course, I bought when they were at $22
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post #158 of 301
5/6/03 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
Looking back, 10.1 was out in September. 10.2 was also out in September (wasn't it?) I would bet that 10.3 is out in September as well.

10.2 was released in August.

Perhaps they're having a 11 month upgrade cycle, and that would mean that 10.3 will be released in July
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #159 of 301
5/6/03 at 12:15pm
Excuse the OT post:

Do you think there's any correlation between the length of time of Moki's silence, and the introduction of new hardware?

Might make for a fun research project...if Moki hasn't posted in 1 week there's a 10% chance of an iBook update, if he hasn't posted in 6 weeks, there's a 40% chance of a PowerBook update...

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post #160 of 301
5/6/03 at 12:44pm
1. There will be no 970s in the powerbooks until IBM reaches 90 nm.

2. Until that time, the powerbook will have a speed bump and battery boost with the impending arrival of the 7457.

3. The current powermacs, emacs and iMacs will get 7457s and drop their prices by 25%.

4. The 970 Macstation will have a price premium of 10% over the current 7455s.

5. Low volume, R & D and agreements with IBM will keep Apple away from 8 way configurations.

6. The 7457 will survive for another year in the iBook.
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