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Macbidouille: 970's on sale at the end of May - Page 5

post #161 of 301
ok. i'll bite.

if this fact or your opinion?


Quote:
3. The current powermacs, emacs and iMacs will get 7457s and drop their prices by 25%.

are you saying apple will keep the current g4s around as say a 1299$ machine?

and that the family of powermacs will start at arround 1100$ and go to the highest dual 970?
post #162 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
When Apple previewed Jaguar at WWDC last year, you didn't get a free upgrade if you bought 10.1 after that day. . .


Just a thought: If Apple does begin selling new 970 equipped PowerMacs before Panther is ready, they may make an exception to their normal policy. Since these PowerMacs are 64-bit machines, Jaguar would be a temporary OS, since it would not run future 64-bit applications.

I could easily imagine Apple shipping a free copy of Panther to anyone who buys a 970 Mac early. It's almost a no brainer. If the hardware is ready much before the OS, Apple stands to make a lot of revenue from selling PowerMacs as soon as they are ready.
post #163 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
The local news staitons would all do reports about it. Mentioning that Apple was holding a conference at the San Jose Convention Center, they would mention what was talked about.

I almost shat a brick this AM when I opened up my local newspaper and found this :



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post #164 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Rhumgod
I almost shat a brick this AM when I opened up my local newspaper and found this :




Not much goin' on in Greenbay these days, 'eh.
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post #165 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
Not much goin' on in Greenbay these days, 'eh.

Seriously!

This town, and state for that matter, is so conservative it is unreal. At the back of the local/state section there is usually one page dedicated to Business. I cannot remember the last time Apple made any news there. I think it was in the Sunday, two-page technology special section, that the flat panel iMac was mentioned. The impact of the iTunes Music Store is that large!
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post #166 of 301
IBM moves Power4 to 1.7 GHz IBM STORY

I don't know if this has any impact on the 970, but I thought I would let some of the outside world in here.
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post #167 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
IBM moves Power4 to 1.7 GHz IBM STORY

I don't know if this has any impact on the 970, but I thought I would let some of the outside world in here.

Cool.
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post #168 of 301
First let me say that just like Ompus speculated, so am I.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ompus
1. There will be no 970s in the powerbooks until IBM reaches 90 nm.

Why? The 970 has a lower power version that runs at 1.2 GHz, and puts out less wattage than the G4 in the current powerbooks. So why would they wiat for 90 nm? No need.

Quote:
2. Until that time, the powerbook will have a speed bump and battery boost with the impending arrival of the 7457.

I wouldn't count on the 7457 seeing the light of day in any Apple product. Why is it any more believeable to say the 7457 will be in a Mac vs the 970? The lower power 970 can provide less wattage than the current G4 (what does the 7457 put out), so machines using it would run longer/cooler.

Quote:
3. The current powermacs, emacs and iMacs will get 7457s and drop their prices by 25%.

Why? The eMacs and iMacs can ride the current G4 on up to 1.4GHz before switching to the 970. There is no need for the 7457 at all.

Quote:
4. The 970 Macstation will have a price premium of 10% over the current 7455s.

The powermacs will move to all 970, no split machines, and will never see the 7457. It will not cost any more than the current configs. Apple is not about to raise their prices after havign just lowered them.

Quote:
6. The 7457 will survive for another year in the iBook.

I say no. I bet GOBI will be in the iBooks, and they will never see a G4 ever. The GOBI processor is supposed to be a G3+SIMD, so if it can run altivec, and be low power and quick, there would be no need for the G4 any longer.
post #169 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
IBM moves Power4 to 1.7 GHz IBM STORY

I don't know if this has any impact on the 970, but I thought I would let some of the outside world in here.

Probably not a whole lot on the 970, but it is nice to see that IBM is continuing pushing the edges...seeing as how they are the (main) supplier for Apple's CPU's in the near future.

I am curious to know how the process of moving to .09 microns is coming....
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post #170 of 301
IBM upping the Power 4 to 1.7GHz is brilliant news! I believe it indicated that the IBM fabs are running very well, and that the Power4 architecture has legs and is scalable. IBM achieves to increase my faith in the 970, which has thinner oxide gates to achieve higher performance/clock-frequency (though lower reliability which it doesn't need anyways). I'm now even more sure of an early launch of the DP 1.8GHz 970 POWERMac happening
post #171 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
First let me say that just like Ompus speculated, so am I.

And I whole heartedly agree with every one of your reasons. Apple will sack Moto quite soon. I would be surprised to see any of their gear in an Apple product by years end.
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post #172 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Rhumgod
And I whole heartedly agree with every one of your reasons. Apple will sack Moto quite soon. I would be surprised to see any of their gear in an Apple product by years end.


That would imply that the G5 will be in the PowerBook, eMac and iMac, or it would say that IBM will have a G4 replacement, a 32-bit PPC with AltiVec. If the latter were true, it would not need to support SMP for consumer and PowerBook.
post #173 of 301
Just in case anyone hasn't noticed, Apple has just recently updated their whole product line except for the 15" PowerBook and the PowerMac. The IBM chip is supposed to be ready some time this summer. The PowerBook and PowerMac both need an update. Is it not obvious that they will both be updated soon.

Yes, The powerbook too. There is no other direction for the PowerBook to go. The 1.2Ghz 970 will be cooler than a 1.2Ghz G4. I doubt the PowerBooks could handle anything over 1Ghz anyways. Why do you think that the 17" did not get a chip anyfaster than the older 15", and why do you think the PowerMacs have so many fans to run the 1.42Ghz? The 970 is the only other course of action besides the 7457, which Moto said would not be out until early next year.

WHY DO PEOPLE THINK THE 970 is going to be so much hotter than the G4? Its a .13ยต chip should be cooler really.

ok got to restart 10.2.6 just installed...gosh I haven't restarted...well since 10.2.5 lol
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post #174 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
Just in case anyone hasn't noticed, Apple has just recently updated their whole product line except for the 15" PowerBook and the PowerMac.

Um, the Power Macs were upgraded AFTER the two new PowerBooks were announced.
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post #175 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by snoopy
That would imply that the G5 will be in the PowerBook, eMac and iMac, or it would say that IBM will have a G4 replacement, a 32-bit PPC with AltiVec. If the latter were true, it would not need to support SMP for consumer and PowerBook.

GOBI

GOBI is a updated "g3" with SIMD, faster bus, and more.

The 970 will go in the towers, and powerbooks.
The iBooks will get GOBI.
The iMacs will either get faster G4s (they have 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4 GHz parts they could use right now), and then move to the 970. Or the iMacs might just get a low power 970 in their next update.
The eMac was just updated, so the next update will probably be a low power 970, or a faster G4 part (again they have 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4 parts).

None of the machines will move "down" to a GOBI, but the iBook will be moved up. It will never see a G4 (no need), and depending on where GOBI goes, might see a 970 down the road (way down the road). And maybe the GOBI will end up in something else (DLD?)
post #176 of 301
MarkG ==> asked a page back about the FSB

current Moto G4 FSB = 167Mb/s
pending IBM 970 FSB = 900Mb/s

six times the pipeline width/throughput, baby.
it ain't just a faster chip, it's also on a system that's no longer being choked... (to be fair, the G4 would continue to benefit from speed bumps were it not for the throttling limitation of the crappy Moto FSB which starves even the current G4 from its true performance)

expect major performance gains in anything that has to now been limited by the FSB... without even considering the faster CPU itself and it's effect on performance

buh bye MPX limitations. hello new bus.
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post #177 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
GOBI

GOBI is a updated "g3" with SIMD, faster bus, and more. . .

I had not heard about SIMD being in GOBI. If true, it is essentially a G4 replacement for single processor Macs. Do you have some more information on this?

Quote:

. . . The iMacs will either get faster G4s (they have 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4 GHz parts they could use right now), and then move to the 970. Or the iMacs might just get a low power 970 in their next update. . .

The posting I replied to suggests that Apple will cut off Motorola as a supplier. If true, there would be no Motorola G4 parts for the iMacs and eMacs, so the G4 option you suggest does not apply. if the suggestion posted is false, than of course the G4 will still be a an option.

Quote:

None of the machines will move "down" to a GOBI, but the iBook will be moved up. It will never see a G4 (no need), and depending on where GOBI goes, might see a 970 down the road (way down the road). And maybe the GOBI will end up in something else (DLD?)

If GOBI has SIMD as you say, it is no step down to put it in the iMac and eMac. That would surely be the end of Motorola for Apple. However, I am not convinced that GOBI has SIMD.
post #178 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by curiousuburb
current Moto G4 FSB = 167Mb/s
pending IBM 970 FSB = 900Mb/s

Where did you get these (incorrect) numbers? The current 167 MHz MPX bus has a throughput of ~1.33 GB/sec and the next version of the G4 apparently supports 200 MHz (~1.6 GB/sec). The 970's bus with a 1.8 GHz processor delivers 3.2 GB/sec read + 3.2 GB/sec write for a total of 6.4 GB/sec. At 1.4 GHz the numbers drop to a total of ~5 GB/sec. This is a 3.75 - 4x improvement. Time will tell if Apple has build a chipset and memory subsystem to fill the FSB.
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post #179 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by snoopy
I had not heard about SIMD being in GOBI. If true, it is essentially a G4 replacement for single processor Macs. Do you have some more information on this?

Ok, it is not GOBI, but the 850:

Quote:
PowerPC 850: Based on an extended G3 core (750/740) that will probably increase the pipeline to 10 stages or so, it will have 512KB L2 cache, 32bit core, made on 130nm process, at least 36bit memory addressing,and include Altivec. The bus will be a RapidIO (probably 2 16bit ports) and have a built-in memory controller for DDR-SDRAM. This will limit it's usage with SMP but considering the target market, this is not much of an issue. Power consumption will be a major design point. Expected: 4Q 03

Quote:
The posting I replied to suggests that Apple will cut off Motorola as a supplier. If true, there would be no Motorola G4 parts for the iMacs and eMacs, so the G4 option you suggest does not apply. if the suggestion posted is false, than of course the G4 will still be a an option.

I would say that MOT might get cut off as a future chip maker, but not a future supplier at this time. The G4 could (note could) still be used as is (ie the 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4 GHz parts). MOT wouldn't need to do any more work on it, jsut produce chips based on what they already have for the iMac and eMac. They are the only products that would need a G4 for the short-term. They could easily move to 970s (low power 970's) within a year of introduction.

Quote:
If GOBI has SIMD as you say, it is no step down to put it in the iMac and eMac. That would surely be the end of Motorola for Apple.

It wouldn't be a step down (it has a 200MHz bus, and SIMD). But I don't think they would change chips twice so soon. Meaning go from G4 to GOBI to 970 in a year/year-and-a-half. My question is why switch these to GOBI? They could easily both go to the low power 970, running at 1.2/1.4 GHZ while the towers run at 1.6/1.8/2.0 GHz. heck, maybe the return of the fanless iMac?

Quote:
However, I am not convinced that GOBI has SIMD.

See my above note.
post #180 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
It wouldn't be a step down (it has a 200MHz bus, and SIMD). But I don't think they would change chips twice so soon. Meaning go from G4 to GOBI to 970 in a year/year-and-a-half. My question is why switch these to GOBI? They could easily both go to the low power 970, running at 1.2/1.4 GHZ while the towers run at 1.6/1.8/2.0 GHz. heck, maybe the return of the fanless iMac?

Two different classes of machine. The GOBI/850/whatever replaces the role of the G3 -- low power, really cheap, single processor systems only. The 970 might be low power compared to a Pentium4 or Athlon, but its still way too hot for the kind of portable and small machine uses that I suspect Apple would use it for. The PowerBooks may get the low end 970s, but the iBook will get the other.
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post #181 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Where did you get these (incorrect) numbers? The current 167 MHz MPX bus has a throughput of ~1.33 GB/sec and the next version of the G4 apparently supports 200 MHz (~1.6 GB/sec). The 970's bus with a 1.8 GHz processor delivers 3.2 GB/sec read + 3.2 GB/sec write for a total of 6.4 GB/sec. At 1.4 GHz the numbers drop to a total of ~5 GB/sec. This is a 3.75 - 4x improvement. Time will tell if Apple has build a chipset and memory subsystem to fill the FSB.

I don't think it has to drop at all. I believe the 1.4GHz and 1.8GHz 970 CPU's will both use a fixed 450MHz external bus frequency, they are just using different integer multipliers (3x and 4x) to generate the core clock. That's my theory which fits with the mentioned clock rates (1.4, 1.8, 2.3 GHz)
post #182 of 301
To post a thought pertaining to the original title of the thread (although I'm enjoying all this speculation immensly.....don't stop ). Has anybody mentioned the prospect of Apple having to deliver the 970s earlier than they (or we) expected?

What if IBM is itching to get these out ASAP (not necesarily in Apple's boxes, but their own)? Might Apple have tied themselves to a schedule that they *gasp* don't control???

Is it possible that Apple just might have to introduce these boxes sooner rather than later or be overshadowed by an IBM pre-planned announcement?

Just thinking out loud here.....
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post #183 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
The 970 might be low power compared to a Pentium4 or Athlon, but its still way too hot for the kind of portable and small machine uses that I suspect Apple would use it for.

True, but the 970 (low powered chip) uses less wattage than todays G4's as well. So it will be a good match for the powerbook and iMac, which use G4's in them today.

Quote:
The PowerBooks may get the low end 970s, but the iBook will get the other.

Which is basicly what I am saying. The IBM 850 (upgraded G3) would be great for future iBooks, and possibly a DLD (digital life-sytle device). 970 will filter into everything else.
post #184 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by boots
I don't think it has to drop at all. I believe the 1.4GHz and 1.8GHz 970 CPU's will both use a fixed 450MHz external bus frequency, they are just using different integer multipliers (3x and 4x) to generate the core clock. That's my theory which fits with the mentioned clock rates (1.4, 1.8, 2.3 GHz)

You are think in terms of MaxBus. The 970 bus speed is based on a 4:1 scale of the processor (this was mentioend by IBM, if I recall correctly). So a 1.8GHz processor would have a 450MHz bus (900MHz double pumped). A 2.0GHz processor would have a 500MHz bus (1GHz double pumped), and a 1.2GHz processor would have a 300MHz bus (600MHz double pumped).

As far as I understand, there is no bus multiplier for the 970's bus.
post #185 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by boots
I don't think it has to drop at all. I believe the 1.4GHz and 1.8GHz 970 CPU's will both use a fixed 450MHz external bus frequency, they are just using different integer multipliers (3x and 4x) to generate the core clock. That's my theory which fits with the mentioned clock rates (1.4, 1.8, 2.3 GHz)

The information from the MDF2002 presentation (not the slide show, but directly from the presenter) is that the FSB runs at half the processor clock. If this information is wrong then you're probably right, but at this point I have to believe the information from IBM and not from you.
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post #186 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
Ok, it is not GOBI, but the 850:

You posted a quote about the 850 as folllows.

Quote:
PowerPC 850: Based on an extended G3 core (750/740) that will probably increase the pipeline to 10 stages or so, it will have 512KB L2 cache, 32bit core, made on 130nm process, at least 36bit memory addressing,and include Altivec. The bus will be a RapidIO (probably 2 16bit ports) and have a built-in memory controller for DDR-SDRAM. This will limit it's usage with SMP but considering the target market, this is not much of an issue. Power consumption will be a major design point. Expected: 4Q 03.

I sure am interested in knowing where that quote came from, or where I can find out more. If IBM is making a 32-bit PPC processor with AltiVec and a really good bus, that is the end of Motorola in Macs in my opinion. I think Apple would put it in the eMac and iMac as soon as they could revise the motherboards. It would be a significant boost in performance.
post #187 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by snoopy
I sure am interested in knowing where that quote came from, or where I can find out more.

It was in a post hear about IBMs future/road map. I saw it mentioned in another forum as well (sorry, can't remember where), so I figured two mentions warrant something.

I tried searching IBMs website, and found nothing about a 850, not to say it doens't exist however.
post #188 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by 709
To post a thought pertaining to the original title of the thread (although I'm enjoying all this speculation immensly.....don't stop ). Has anybody mentioned the prospect of Apple having to deliver the 970s earlier than they (or we) expected?

What if IBM is itching to get these out ASAP (not necesarily in Apple's boxes, but their own)? Might Apple have tied themselves to a schedule that they *gasp* don't control???

Is it possible that Apple just might have to introduce these boxes sooner rather than later or be overshadowed by an IBM pre-planned announcement?

Just thinking out loud here.....

Wow, maybe it's the time of night, but this strikes me as an incredibly insightful post. Seriously, I haven't heard anyone else mention this posibility, yet it makes a lot of sense. Anyone who has kept abreast of IBM news knows that they like to be highly vocal, and deliver new technologies either on time, or early. (Which basically means they're good at making conservative announcements and then meeting (or beating) them)

It really wouldn't surprise me if IBM is feeling the mounting pressure (from HP/Compaq and others) in the low/mid server market, and wants to get this new iron out there...

AMD had their big day with the whole "our bits go up to 64" thing, claiming first to market, blah blah blah...IBM wants to have their party too...just as soon as Apple's needs for iDrama can be met.
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post #189 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by 709
Is it possible that Apple just might have to introduce these boxes sooner rather than later or be overshadowed by an IBM pre-planned announcement?

Who knows the details of IBM-Apple agreements? Neither of the companies are stupid enough to compete with each other while depending on each other. Remember that without PPC970 Apple is pretty doomed to switch to Intel/AMD CPUs. Remember also that Apple is going to be the largest customer of IBM's. They should have somehow divided the market or something. In a wild speculation mode I can presume that Apple contributed to PPC970 development from the very beginning and who knows how. In fact, it's even possible that without Apple there wouldn't be any PPC970. I don't believe that Apple and IBM will offer competing products unless Apple ordered the PPC970 development at IBM 3 years ago in return for all rights reserved by IBM.
Anyway, in this situation they are not going to kill each other with PR.
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post #190 of 301
i'm going to say they are wrong... in which case I hope I am, but everytime I make a prediction it has never become right... so I'm hoping my bad luck will give me good luck so that this whole 970 happens now... so all I have to worry about is the money to get one but with my luck I will finally be correct but in this case I don't want too.
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post #191 of 301
Apple will release the 970 as the top end machine, even although the 970 included is actually the slowest they have available. It will blow away the G4, and everyone will scramble to buy one. Just like you did when the G4 Yikes! replaced the G3.

They will then release 10.3, but it will not be a free upgrade as others have suggested. It will be sold as "optimized for 970", and pitched as an upgrade that will significantly increase the speed of the 970s out there, and everyone will scramble to buy it. Just like you did with Jaguar.

New machines will ship with the faster 970s and 10.3 installed, whilst your shiny new 970 plummets in value before your very eyes. Suddenly you're left with Yikes! MK II, and you've also forked out for a software "upgrade" that everybody else is getting for free.

SHAFTED!!!

That's the way anybody running a business would do it...
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post #192 of 301
No that is not the way to run a business!
If you are too "smart" in business deal the customer will not come back nor recomend you to other people.

The weakest link in Apples business model is not shortness of cash. Market share and CPU performance in the tower models are the two main weaknesses I think. Neither of them will be improved by shafting the customers

A very substantial upgrade in performance and features at the same price is a far better way of regain some of what was lost during the dark ages of G4.

With IBM aiming the 970 for Linux blade servers I would guess that the Apple blade server will get a 970 as well but in a low key event while the Apple focus will be the towers so that to keep a friendly atmosphere between Apple and the big big blue!
post #193 of 301
That's the way to run a business if you have a monopoly.

I don't see anybody else selling machines that run Mac OS 9/X out of the box.
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post #194 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
That's the way to run a business if you have a monopoly.

I don't see anybody else selling machines that run Mac OS 9/X out of the box.

Yeah, thats a way to run business if you want to piss off every mac customer in the world, and then eventually lose all the marketshare you have. Calling Apple a monopoly is a little strange I think. It's not as there's no alternatives to macs. If Apple starts to f**k customers this way, they may lose all their loyal fans, and all their sales. Not gonna happen.
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post #195 of 301
Just for fun

I think that the NMR first introduced us to the term GOBI

Quote:
sCreeD

From the Naked Mole Rat circa Jan '03:
quote:...the company [IBM] has now navigated beyond its Sahara generation of PowerPC G3 to a remap dubbed Colorado. Next stop: Gobi, which is expected to reach full production during the first calendar quarter of 2003.

But what lies beyond Gobi? Instead of continuing to rev the PowerPC G3's hoary 7xx architecture, the Blade's yurt-carriers aver, Gobi's planned successor, code-named MojaveMP, will based on the nascent Viper template, which in turn will represent a grand union between the 7xx and IBM?s 4xx series of embedded processors.

Mojave, which will start at 1.6 GHz, will be based on a 0.10-nanometer process and feature dynamic voltage and frequency scaling. As a result, this bantamweight will be able to run at its base speed at 1.2 V and eat up only a Callista Flockhart-size 10 W.

1.6 GHz. For a G3 descendant/derivative. What can we suppose from this? Perhaps that the iBooks will go 1.6GHz Mojave when the 970 is well beyond that (1.8 at the low end??)? But what of the G4? Mojave would seem cover this year and few quarters into the next.

And what's this MojaveMP?

The mind boggles, the eyes blur and the Screed goes to bed.

Screed

Last edited by sCreeD on 05-06-2003 at 12:21 AM

With this ammunition in hand, I will say that GOBI is not the IBM 850, but the Mojave will ultimately be the IBM 850 in all its' multicore superscaler, Rapid I/O, n-way Core connect GLORY. Halleluja IBM comes through where Motorola failed in its' timelines.

Hope my ammunition isn't all wet.
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Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #196 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah

SHAFTED!!!

Even if this scenario is true, it's completely wrong to consider it being 'shafted' as you say. It's nothing of the sort. You get what you pay for and nothing more.
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post #197 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Even if this scenario is true, it's completely wrong to consider it being 'shafted' as you say. It's nothing of the sort. You get what you pay for and nothing more.

Yea, I'd love to be shafted tomorrow with a 970!
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post #198 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by NETROMac
Yeah, thats a way to run business if you want to piss off every mac customer in the world, and then eventually lose all the marketshare you have. Calling Apple a monopoly is a little strange I think. It's not as there's no alternatives to macs. If Apple starts to f**k customers this way, they may lose all their loyal fans, and all their sales. Not gonna happen.

Sorry, are you honestly trying to tell me that Apple don't f**k their customers at the moment?
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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post #199 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
Sorry, are you honestly trying to tell me that Apple don't f**k their customers at the moment?

Not intentionally they arent. They are a business and have to sell whatever product they can, and at the current state I think they are doing as good as they can. It's not their fault that moronola is so far behind in the performance race. I think Apple is delivering at the time being well balanced and fine laptops, somewhat overpriced iMac, and the new eMac is well suited for it's purpose I think and right priced. And lets not forget the new displays that are extremely well designed, have great performance, and is actually very reasonably priced compared to other products. They have also released a batch of new iPrograms the last few years for "free". That leaves the powermac left as somewhat underpowered and overpriced compared to offerings on the PC side. But again, this is not how Apple wants things to be, and we'll see some changes when the new processors from IBM is introduced I think. So you see I cant agree with you with you when you say that Apple f**cks their customers. And hey, you dont have to buy if you dont want to.

(edit: bla bla bla)
Former WWDC Watchdog.
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Former WWDC Watchdog.
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post #200 of 301
So, if Apple announced the availability of a 1.4GHz 970 tomorrow, but it didn't have 10.3 pre installed, and you wouldn't be able to take full advantage of the 970, you wouldn't buy it? Even with everyone raving about how it wiped the floor with the G4, you still wouldn't buy it?

And if they then announced the availability of 10.3, which offered you a major leap in productivity, you wouldn't be tempted to buy 10.3?

And when the next generation of 970 were released shortly afterward, and your "ultimate" machine became the "fast" machine, you wouldn't be pissed off?

Okay!

The launch of the 970 is going to be an exciting time for us all, the dawn of a new age for Mac users (I hope). Once again, we're going to be able to blow away PCs, with a CPU that should scale quickly. Apple would be stupid not to milk us for every penny. If they can get us to pay for something twice, then they would be foolish not to do so.

Of course it doesn't feel like you're getting shafted at the time, because you have this shiny new state of the art piece of hardware, or this miraculous new piece of software that increases the speed of your machine as if by magic.

Happened with the early releases of OS X, and we scrambled to buy 10.2 when it appeared on the shelves. 10.2 was the first release of OS X that was usable, but we all still ran the beta and got excited when 10.1 was released.
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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