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Macbidouille: 970's on sale at the end of May - Page 2

post #41 of 301
It seems to me that 1) if the 970 was coming out wouldn't they be clearing out the G4 PowerMacs? and 2) what's the chance they update the server machines first like they did when they first introduced DDR in the MB - That took place as a May release if I recall correctly.
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #42 of 301
Firesale on G4?

Blow em out at 1299$ sell them as long as the inventory last? I thinnk they would still sell since some people don't want the latest machine. (ie web servers, other servers,)
post #43 of 301
Perhaps the moving of WWDC was because they **knew** the machines would be available early. The new Powermacs/architecture will do more to revive sales than 10.3... at least in key areas.

SO - if you know you have to do a "second coming" sort of rollout, meaning massive manpower from every level of the company sans the 10.3 group: just push back WWDC and divert attention by talking about 10.3. Secretly build up the resources to make a massive early June announcment of the 970 & new architecture. Roll through the logistics of announcements (including PR schedules, sales and facilitations operations) and while the press is still hot, strike again with 10.3 and some great new features that will unlock the real potential of the just-released hardware.

Makes sense to me, though it would signal a shift in Apple's rollout thinking.
post #44 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardf12
Firesale on G4?

Blow em out at 1299$ sell them as long as the inventory last? I thinnk they would still sell since some people don't want the latest machine. (ie web servers, other servers,)

Macbidoulle's site said that the current Pro G4's (and 17" iMacs, hmmm...) are being offered to Apple employees at 30% off.

970 powered 17" iMac... temptation could... be... too... much...

post #45 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Nitzer
I say:

1.4 single - $1800 - shipping in late may
1.6 dual - $2300 - mid to late june
1.8 dual - $3000 - late june to early july

All prices and specs are purely theoretical (and hopefully will be better).

edit: All announced on the same day -- ship as soon as possible with the above as a projected schedule -- more or less the normal way they release products



ps Dig the poster!

dump that is,
announce all on the same day, start selling high end direct, and low end 2 months later, milk the cow as good as possible, just like imac2.

no complaints because the best to get is there first.
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post #46 of 301
If the 970s are released in the next few months, then logic would dictate that the G4 based towers would plummet in price.

Here's hoping to a mass sell-out of G4 based Macs.
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post #47 of 301
I am for the bastard G4-PPC970 transition theory !

Remember how the PPC G4 400 Mhz came first with the B&W G3 features: no AGP, low speed bus etc. ? It was just a 350 Mhz B&W G3 with a new G4 proc inside clocked at 400 and then 350 Mhz and a slightly new casing.

But Apple didn't hesitate to push this bastard thing at the front row.

They aren't above doing it again with the PPC970 : this time there will be also the perspective of using -64 bits ready-Panther to help things a little on the marketing side.
Stephane

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post #48 of 301
Im still sceptical that the 970 PMac would be released in May, Apple themselves believe there is HUGE pent up demand for the next PMacs, so this could well be the build up necessary (for once) to satisfy this demand upon announcement.

Unless this is from one of the OEM parners, now Im thinking PBooks?, since Apple builds the desktops themselves. And the 15" still Ti?. I cant see this model getting a 970 when the 12/17 Als remain G4's, The next update (for the 12/17's) due around September - sure.

10.2.6 970 would be fine for Apple's current constituents, Panther and WWDC, hopefully will be a huge song and dance to get as much 64 development as possible to drive the 'switch' campaign hard on the creative and sundry markets.

Makes sense, I guess well just have to wait and see.
post #49 of 301
How about this:

The 970 PowerMacs get released at the end of May, beginning of June in some very big PR event. That way they can totally talk about them at WWDC, because they're already shipping.

In addition:

1. They can focus on Panther at WWDC and not have it totally overshadowed by the 970.
2. Get a double-whammy of publicity - the 970 first at its own event and then Panther at its own event.
3. WWDC will be REALLY buzzing in the aftermath of the 970 rollout and everyone will give it, and Panther, much more attention because of the hype following the 970.

The old one-two!! A knockout punch...



Further - why have only one bite at the cherry when you can get two??
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post #50 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
It seems to me that 1) if the 970 was coming out wouldn't they be clearing out the G4 PowerMacs?...

Some posters at MacRumors commenting on this same story have pointed out that the Apple Store has "an unusually large selection" of refurbished G4's for sale now. I don't know if I buy this connection to the subject of this thread, but stranger things have happened.

(The refurbs can be found in the "Special Deal" section of the Apple store - the red flag in the lower left corner of the front page is the way in.)
post #51 of 301
Wow, MacBidouille's not kidding around! Whenever I read rumors on MacBidouille, I recall the time they posted pictures of the PowerMacs with the two oval bay doors (what were they called again?) before anyone had any clue they were coming. They've definitely had good inside info in the past.

Maybe the PPC 970 will indeed be in PowerMacs first (makes more sense than in PowerBooks). And maybe, just maybe, I'm going to have to buy a low-end 970 PowerMac and 20-inch ACD instead of a Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook as my next system. What if the Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook were to ship with a 1Ghz 970, though? I'd be all over it in a second.

I'm crossing my fingers, knocking on wood, but not yet holding my breath.

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Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #52 of 301
The end of May seems unlikely for a new PowerMac. It would be just four weeks before WWDC, and according to the claim, Apple would be shipping only the low end single processor version. I think it is worth waiting the four weeks for several reasons.

First, the new 970 processor and 64-bit Panther go together, and it would be awkward to promote one without promoting the other as well. I feel certain Steve Jobs wants to talk about both these items at the same time.

Second, Steve is not giving the keynote at the newly reorganized Macworld expo. Apple has a big hall for WWDC, and this is likely where Steve's keynotes will be from now on. If the PowerMacs are introduced at a special event at the end of May, the WWDC keynote will seem like a let down. This is especially true if Panther is not ready to ship until a little later.

What I now think will happen is that both the 970 PowerMacs and 64-bit Panther will be introduced at WWDC by Steve Jobs. The PowerMac will be available, at least some models with the others to follow soon afterward. Panther will be demonstrated on these machines, but will ship sometime later.

This introduction of the 64-bit Macintosh is a big deal. It's going to happen at a big newsworthy event, highlighting both the processor and OS. With everything revealed, it is then only natural to talk about the future of computing and how Apple is leading the way.
post #53 of 301
all they have to do is take preorders of the ones not shipping like they have in the past.

I don't agree with panther and 970 must go together. we don't know the specs of the subsystem so its very possible that they kick so much butt now that they could show its current power .. then say when panther ships its will also do an impressive X,Y,Z

as other have mentioned, with a double barrelled attack in late may and late june and then panther in august... apple could own a large portion of the PR mindshare over this summer.
post #54 of 301
The sooner they get these machines out the better. though the Powermac is not Apple's education mac, I see mostly Powermacs used throughout my university. May and June is the time educational institutions make their buying decisions and getting these machines out asap. I think the introduction of the 970 will be very similar to the G3. The G3 macs utilized a new chip with a new architecture. In addition they were able to put one into a powerbook. I am hoping for an event at the end of Mac with a complete Powermac 970 lineup, and a surprise 970 in the Powerbooks.
post #55 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by jdbon2


. . . May and June is the time educational institutions make their buying decisions and getting these machines out asap. . .


A very good point that I had not considered. Something like that could easily tip the scales in favor of an early-as-possible introduction.
post #56 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by snoopy
A very good point that I had not considered. Something like that could easily tip the scales in favor of an early-as-possible introduction.


...particularly the introduction of a low-end, single processor version - probably at the lowest price point.

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post #57 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
One of the sites (I can't remember which one) had a note about 10.2.6 coming soon.

It was MacRumors:
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/...24125523.shtml

Quote:
I'm skeptical, but Apple is under a lot of pressure to improve their PowerMac sales and if they really can get them out the door a full 3-4 months ahead of Panther then I suppose they'd probably go for it.
<snip>
Only time will tell and I'll believe it when I see it.

Yes, but they are also under pressure to get educational sales back up to snuff. Perhaps we'll see another Apple Event with the announcement of an eMac replacement? That might explain the Hon Hai origins?

Eh, too much speculation, not enough specification.
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post #58 of 301
Given the revised range of clock speeds that IBM briefly claimed for the 970, I still have to wonder if the 1.4GHz is the low voltage version, and the single CPU machine being manufactured by Hon Hai is the sort of machine Hon Hai specialized in: Either a notebook or an iMac.

If Hon Hai is making PowerMacs now, I can only imagine that the PowerMac is going to be vastly different. You just don't need that kind of expertise to put a tower together, especially not one as built for accessibility as the current PowerMac.

Given that Apple is currently using Special Funky G4s from Motorola, which simply cannot be cheap, I imagine that Apple could actually go all dual in the professional desktop line. The 970 is bigger than the G4, but IBM will be rolling it out in quantity from a clean, modern fab, and on a smaller process.
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post #59 of 301
The only part of the rumor that really doesn't make any sense to me is the time difference between the low speed and high speed cpus causing different ship dates. Large differences make sense, but if it's only a matter of 2 weeks, then it would make sense to me to annouce them both at the same time. It seems like it would be in Apple's interest to hold off till WWDC for the official launch, and then launch everything.

Now, considering Apple's desire these days to do big announcements at non-regular announcement events, why did they move WWDC to June? What can we normally expect at a WWDC? Haven't most of the developer releases of Apple OSes been at WWDCs? It would make sense that Apple, deciding that there was a trememdous convergence of events, ie WWDC, early availabilty of 970 and developer release quality 10.3, all around May/June, that they would hold off announcing any 970 machines in May and wait 2 weeks and get far more bang for their buck. They would have 970's ready for sale with 10.2 and for the developers and bleeding-edge types they would have DR of 10.3 with 64bit support available. Perhaps with a few exotic 64bit apps to go with it as demos.

Guess we will have to wait and see

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post #60 of 301
Some quick notes about the whole 64 bit issue.

Some people seem to thing that it is an instant 50% speed increase and with out it we will see huge performance cuts - That is simply not true.

The processor does not have to emulate a 32 bit environment - it will run it at full speed.

Being 64 bit it can handle and process larger variables faster. (laymens terms, feel free to give a more technical statement about this)

As for software the places that are going to see these increases helping out the most are universities doing huge mathematical equations or research institutes, Perhaps Special effect houses. In 90% of the named places the people buying the powermac are going to write their own software anyways.
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post #61 of 301
It will run it at full speed, but will it not also avoid the bottleneck that the G4 suffers from in regards to the memory and available bandwidth? If so, then could we not expect significantly better performance from the 970 over the G4 at the same clock, both running 32 OS and apps?

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post #62 of 301
Steve did say this was the year of the portable. I believe that the 970 will first be introduced in the 15" PowerBook, then later the 970 PowerMacs will come out. I would not be surprised to see the talked about 970 chip coming out in the PowerBook late may and then at WWDC the Towers will be upgraded along with the 17" iMac. Remember the 970 is not like the G4, apple should not have much trouble putting it in a PowerBook. Especially because apple has already worked out the heat problems. Heck they can put 1Ghz G4s in one inch cases now! I'm really hoping for the new 970 PowerBooks and it no longer seems quite so unlikely.

But as Escher said in his really cool quote, "I'm crossing my fingers, knocking on wood, but not yet holding my breath."
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post #63 of 301
God I hope they don`t release powerbook 970 before the towers - Do they really wanna see how low they can get the tower sales? I doubt it.
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post #64 of 301
a single processor board running a 1.4 970 from Hon Hai or whatever sounds more like a laptop board than a desktop...though it could be the return of the cube also....

i expect towers to be dual (1.6, 1.8, 2.0)....but a cube design return could see a single 1.4, but then so could a 15.4 laptop

dang it has been a long week....i can't even understand my posts


g
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post #65 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
Steve did say this was the year of the portable. I believe that the 970 will first be introduced in the 15" PowerBook, then later the 970 PowerMacs will come out. I would not be surprised to see the talked about 970 chip coming out in the PowerBook late may and then at WWDC the Towers will be upgraded along with the 17" iMac. Remember the 970 is not like the G4, apple should not have much trouble putting it in a PowerBook. Especially because apple has already worked out the heat problems. Heck they can put 1Ghz G4s in one inch cases now! I'm really hoping for the new 970 PowerBooks and it no longer seems quite so unlikely.

But as Escher said in his really cool quote, "I'm crossing my fingers, knocking on wood, but not yet holding my breath."

I don't know if that would make sense. The fact the rumours point to a company that produces laptops for Apple does sort of point that way, but there would be major issues.

First, a laptop that has a better processor than the desktops would really kill PM sales. Second, a 970 in the 15" would create positioning problems with the 17". Which would be more expensive, which would be considered the high end model? The 15" with the 970 or the 17" with a G4? If the 15" goes to the 970, I would guess the 17" would have to go 970 at the same time. It was essentially just released, doesn't it seem sort of soon for a completely new rev?

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post #66 of 301
Well lets put it this way, the PowerBook 15.2" is currently behind the 12" and 17" models. I don't see why apple could not now make the 15.4" model better than the 12" and 17" models. The 15" PowerBook is by far the most popular of the 3 models, yet apple has let them lag behind the other models for quite a few months now. If apple updated the 12" to a 1Ghz G4, updated the 15" to a 1.4Ghz 970, and went ahead and released a 970 17" a month later I don't see why it would be such a big deal. The Powerbooks are going to have to stay up with the Powermacs, otherwise apple will lose sales to the would be PowerBook buyers like myself. Apple no longer looks to upgrade everything at once, but apple updates products when they need to. There is no reason not to update the 15" model to the 970 if the low power 970 chip is ready before the desktop versions. Apple will not lose anything on it! They will only sell computers that are not being sold. If they update the 12" it will continue to sell. The 17" is not a huge seller anyway but rather was made to impress the PC world.

This is the way I'm hoping it will happen:

May- 12" powerbook goes to 1Ghz, 15.4" Powerbook at 1.4ghz 970 revealed, 17" powerbook has a few hundred dollar price cut.

June- 970 Powermacs introduced at 1.4,1.8, and 2.0ghz, imac 17" bumps to 1.4Ghz 970, Powerbook 17" gets 1.4ghz 970.


Wouldn't this be just great! Can Apple actually do something like this? They need to, if they every want to get the rest of the market, they are going to have to introduce some heavy hitting hardware.
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post #67 of 301
Let's remember that Panther has a lot more to it then just the possibility of being 64 bit. The additional features need more development time. However a patched 10.2.x will run just fine on the 970's with no loss of performance, and a significant gain due to the 970.

My speculation is that end of May will find a few 970's placed in the hands of a few select and trusted developers. WWDC will bring an announcement (give or take a little).

I expect 1.2 ghz powerbooks first in the 15" and followed shortly by a revamped 17". 12 inch speedbumped to the 1.0ghz G4 with a revamp in the fall. Maybe (long shot) a dual 17 inch.

At the same time a full line of PowerMacs will be announced. 1.4 ghz singles will be the low end and available immediatly. within a few weeks (2-4) dual 1.4 and dual 1.8 will be made available. For some reason I just don't see a dual 1.6. Nothing above dual 1.8 before mid fall (October-November) then maybe a speed bump to 2.0 plus. 970's will top out at around 2.5 duals eventually next year early, then later next year, the 980's.

Pricing will remain about the same as it is now.

Just my wild guess and wishful thinking.
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post #68 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
The interesting thing to me is that Apple currently assembled PowerMacs in their own plants, at least for the US market. Hon Hai was making 'Books the last time I saw their name associated with Apple. Maybe this new form requires the expertise of a notebook maker?

I also noticed this too, and I find it strange that they would be involved.
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post #69 of 301
Macbidouille just posted the following correction: (google translation)

Quote:
A mistake in interpretation slipped into the news of yesterday.

The PPC 970 will be shown with the developers with the WWDC and the public the following semane. It will be on sale immediately
But unquestionable APPLE of its planetary success will start to make large stocks and to distribute them on the planêtre as of the end May.
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post #70 of 301
Sorry for the OT post:
ALGOL did the Conn. Governer really say that?
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post #71 of 301
Releasing the 970 first in a PowerBook is not going to "kill" Power Macintosh sales by any means at all. It is already established pretty much who needs to use PowerBooks or Power Macs or even both. So don't use those tactics; if anything releasing the 970 in the PowerBook will stir up sales of old PowerMacs (on the cheap) before the new ones hit.

And with that translation, what the heck is a "semane?"
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post #72 of 301
Here, a little bit cleaned up:

A mistake in interpretation slipped into yesterday's news:

The PPC 970 will be shown with the developers with the WWDC and the public the following week. It will be on sale immediately. But Apple, unquestionably (sure) of its planetary success, will start to make large stocks and to distribute them on planet at the end May.
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post #73 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaktai
Macbidouille just posted the following correction: (google translation)

With Babelfish and my own knowledge of french , I tried to make this, hopefully somewhat more understandable, translation:

Quote:
[Rumour] PPC 970 small correction

A mistake in interpretation slipped into the news of yesterday. The PPC 970 will be shown to the developers at WWDC and to the public the following week. It will be on sale immediately. But Apple, unquestionable because of its expected planetary success, will start to make large stocks and to distribute them as of the end of May.

We are terribly sorry for this mistranslation.
post #74 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by thegelding
a single processor board running a 1.4 970 from Hon Hai or whatever sounds more like a laptop board than a desktop...

i expect towers to be dual (1.6, 1.8, 2.0)....but a cube design return could see a single 1.4, but then so could a 15.4 laptop

Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
May- 12" powerbook goes to 1Ghz, 15.4" Powerbook at 1.4ghz 970 revealed, 17" powerbook has a few hundred dollar price cut.

June- 970 Powermacs introduced at 1.4,1.8, and 2.0ghz, imac 17" bumps to 1.4Ghz 970, Powerbook 17" gets 1.4ghz 970.

I honestly think that people who are expecting 1.4Ghz processors in either PowerBook or the bottom-end SP PowerMac are getting their hopes up too high. There's also no way Apple will go beyond 2Ghz this year, even with IBM coming on board. Remember, we've only been in the Ghz range for a year.

I get carried away by my hopes and dreams too sometimes. But we have to be pragmatic and keep reality in mind. Remember that the IBM PPC 970 will bring vast performance improvements even if there is little or no rise in clock speed. So I think we would see impressive performance even if high-end PowerBooks and the low-end PowerMac were to move to a more realistic 1.2Ghz low-power PPC 970 by late summer or early fall.

Quote:
Wouldn't this be just great! Can Apple actually do something like this?

Algol: Of course it would be great. But I really don't think Apple will move to a 1.4 PPC 970 in PowerBooks or the low-end PowerMac before very late this year or MWSF in January, at the earliest. But who knows? (I certainly don't.) Maybe I'm just having a bad, overly pessimistic day because it's cloudy and cold out today. BTW, I'm honored that you liked my quote.

Escher
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Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #75 of 301
post #76 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by fred_lj
Releasing the 970 first in a PowerBook is not going to "kill" Power Macintosh sales by any means at all. It is already established pretty much who needs to use PowerBooks or Power Macs or even both. So don't use those tactics; if anything releasing the 970 in the PowerBook will stir up sales of old PowerMacs (on the cheap) before the new ones hit.

And with that translation, what the heck is a "semane?"

I have PB G4 500 that I want to upgrade. The 12" PB is too small for my liking and the 17" is too big to carry around and use in trailers, car, plane motels, etc. Also need to upgrade my DP GHz 2002 DA model. I'll take one of each.
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post #77 of 301
Suppose for the sake of argument that >1.6GHz 970s were available in plentiful supply, but that some existing cases (e.g. TiPB, iMac) could only cope with lower-clocked CPUs for heat reasons. If this were the case (no pun intended), then I'd like to see Apple design a dynamic underclocking system into the motherboard.

That is, the mobo should be able to set its clockspeed at an optimal level based on the ambient temperature. So the same mobo could perhaps be used in towers, iMacs and PBs, assuming that the form was not an issue. In a PB in temperate weather you might get say 1.2GHz; the same mobo in an iMac in cold weather might be able to run right up to 1.6GHz or more. And a tower would of course be able to run at top speed, hopefully 1.8GHz or more (in all normal conditions).

The really cool thing (again, no pun intended) is that it would then be a simple matter to allow the user to specify whether hotter/faster/louder operation was preferred, or cooler/slower/quieter was instead. Ideally, you'd have a slider bar for this control, allowing you to set any value within the permissible range.

I've written about this before, and other respondents have pointed out that the energy saver control panel lets you select a higher or lower performance level. But I have in mind a far more flexible system that would potentially allow Apple to use the one mobo in a wide range of forms, with the mobo itself ensuring that it delivered optimal performance within the constraints of that form factor.
post #78 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Thai Moof
Sorry for the OT post:
ALGOL did the Conn. Governor really say that?

Yes, he did say that, but I obviously live in the wrong state. We have to pay for hand jobs here...

Apple will have to ship computers with the chips that IBM makes avaiable. If the slowest 970 chip is a 1.4ghz, then apple will be forced to use it in the lowend machines. As far as I know the PowerBook motherboards will have to be redone to add DDR,9600 ati card, airport extreme, etc. Well then I just have to ask, why not go ahead and stick the 970 in them if the chip is ready!!!!! Makes for a faster transition of the Apple line up. You see if apple leaves the PowerBooks G4s and upgrades the PowerMacs the same overall problem will develop. I say that apple will move all their computers to the 970 buy the end of the year, maybe except for the ibook and emac. Plus steve said this would be the year of the portable, and this year would not be complete without a 970 PowerBook!
"People don't want handouts! People want hand jobs!" ~ Connecticut governor William O'Neil at a political rally, followed by riotous applause
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"People don't want handouts! People want hand jobs!" ~ Connecticut governor William O'Neil at a political rally, followed by riotous applause
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post #79 of 301
Quote:
A mistake in interpretation slipped into the news of yesterday. The PPC 970 will be shown to the developers at WWDC and to the public the following week. It will be on sale immediately. But Apple, unquestionable because of its expected planetary success, will start to make large stocks and to distribute them as of the end of May.

We are terribly sorry for this mistranslation

c) massive build up of machines so june WWDC, steve can say "Shipping Next Week!

so "c)" was the correct answer.

Now if i can only fix my quicktime streaming bug/hangs before WWDC
post #80 of 301
Quote:
Originally posted by Nonsuch
*cough cough* Flat Panel iMac *cough*

That's not a good example, though, because in that case there WAS a huge unveiling of all three models and then Apple shipped them one by one (starting, of course, with the high-end, highest-profit model). What MacBidouille is saying is that the low-end model will be introduced and on sale BEFORE WWDC, where one assumes Apple will intro the machines and lay out the whole 64-bit strategy. I don't buy that.
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