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Darwin Without Quartz? It Is Possible?

post #1 of 27
5/2/03 at 6:51pm
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Hey all. I was just wondering... Since I have GNOME installed for my X11 would it be possible to run pure Darwin with GNOME as the Window Manager instead of Quartz? I think that would be cool...

Oh and once that's set if it can be how would I revert back to Quartz if I wanted to?

Thanks...
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post #2 of 27
5/2/03 at 6:58pm
Of course it's possible. Once you're at the login panel, type ">console" as user, then, from console, log in with your normal account. Then run X.
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post #3 of 27
5/2/03 at 8:30pm
Thread Starter 
Chucker that's exactly what I did... But it threw dozens of errors at me..... If we can set up a time to talk about it on Netfone that would be great as it's to much type out.......
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post #4 of 27
5/2/03 at 8:32pm
You have to make sure your path is defined, make sure that your logged in as your normal user and that your modified exinitrc is being used.

^ I have done all this and still gotten the errors, I have used different startup commands and got the grey screen wtih the x curser but nothing else..
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post #5 of 27
5/2/03 at 9:17pm
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Dangit... If this would work it would be so awesome......
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post #6 of 27
5/3/03 at 12:02am
You're trying to run XWindows on Darwin without Aqua, not Quartz. Quartz is the rendering system, Aqua is teh gui.
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post #7 of 27
5/3/03 at 6:07am
Quote:
Originally posted by serrano
You're trying to run XWindows on Darwin without Aqua, not Quartz. Quartz is the rendering system, Aqua is teh gui.

Um, no. Without Quartz. Quartz is the Window Server; Aqua is the Window Manager.
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post #8 of 27
5/3/03 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally posted by Proud iBook Owner 2k2
Dangit... If this would work it would be so awesome......

Got a digital camera? Make a photo of the errors printed out. Post it here.
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post #9 of 27
5/3/03 at 8:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Got a digital camera? Make a photo of the errors printed out. Post it here.

I can type it out.....

The same error occurs for just about every command you try and run.

The error message(s):

"(ipc/send) invalid destination port
initCGDisplayState: cannot map display interlock
KCGErrorFailure:CGSNewConnection. Cannot Connect To Server
XP_Init: error not initialized
Can't initialize window system
giving up
xinit: no such file/directory
unable to connect to X server
xinit: No such process (errno3) Server error"

That happens when you try and execute startx, X, and so on... and it happens whether or not you're in the /usr/x11r6/bin directory or not..... What's up? Can we set it to use Xfree86 and a WM of choice like GNOME or KDE,. etc?

I hope that helps and I hope I didn't leave any errors out... If this isn't possible to do without permanent damage that would suck but it it's possible that would be great. I'll be getting a Linux box soon enough but I wanna try it first on OS X.
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post #10 of 27
5/3/03 at 9:41am
I don't have Mac OS X, and I don't understand this sort of thing at all. That said, doesn't CG stand for CoreGraphics (or Quartz)? Is the X server you're trying to run meant to be used on its own?
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post #11 of 27
5/3/03 at 10:06am
@_iBook: Are you by any chance using Apple's X11? That one doesn't understand rooted mode, which is what you want.

Use XDarwin instead.
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post #12 of 27
5/3/03 at 3:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
@_iBook: Are you by any chance using Apple's X11? That one doesn't understand rooted mode, which is what you want.

Use XDarwin instead.

I have X11 but thats not what I'm trying to do...I'm trying to run GNOME independantly from quartz and aqua.... Im wondering if thats possible.
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post #13 of 27
5/3/03 at 4:27pm
Quote:
I have X11 but thats not what I'm trying to do...I'm trying to run GNOME independantly from quartz and aqua.... Im wondering if thats possible.

Somebody's missing something here. Gnome runs on top of X. If you get X working independently, then Gnome will run independently. It certainly should be possible. The problem is, your X wants to run on top of Quartz. If you get X in rooted mode, then it won't need Quartz, and you will thus be able to run Gnome independently from Quartz and Aqua.

By the way, Quartz isn't just a window manager and Gnome isn't a window manager at all. Quartz is a display server, like X, except it has a window manager and other things built into it. Gnome comes with a window manager called Metacity.
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post #14 of 27
5/3/03 at 4:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mac The Fork
Somebody's missing something here. Gnome runs on top of X. If you get X working independently, then Gnome will run independently. It certainly should be possible. The problem is, your X wants to run on top of Quartz. If you get X in rooted mode, then it won't need Quartz, and you will thus be able to run Gnome independently from Quartz and Aqua.

yea but how do u deactivate Quartz? How do you set GNOME as the WM and environment? That's what I wanna know...
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post #15 of 27
5/3/03 at 4:36pm
Oh, is it that you don't want Quartz running when you log in regularly?

Still, your current problem is that Quartz isn't running. Whatever X server you're using expects Quartz to be there.
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post #16 of 27
5/3/03 at 4:37pm
Thread Starter 
hmmm If i install XDarwin and run in console will GNOME work?
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post #17 of 27
5/3/03 at 4:40pm
According to Chucker, yeah.
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post #18 of 27
5/3/03 at 4:42pm
Thread Starter 
How do I set Xdar to install as Rootless?
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post #19 of 27
5/3/03 at 4:52pm
Don't you mean rooted (without Quartz)? If so, the FAQ would have us believe that XDarwin is already rooted and doesn't currently run in rootless 'mode':

Quote:
What's all this about X taking over my screen?
Right now, your screen is controlled by either XDarwin or Quartz, but not both at the same time. XDarwin provides (among other things) the mechanism for switching which graphics system controls the screen.

Like I said, I don't have OS X, so maybe you shouldn't take advice from me. I'd try this myself if I could. :/
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post #20 of 27
5/4/03 at 3:42am
XDarwin supports both rootless and rooted mode. All you need to do is use XDarwin, not Apple's X11.

And just to get some facts straight:

- Quartz is an implementation of DisplayPDF. It is a window server.
- XDarwin and Apple's X11 are both implementations of X11, based off XFree86. Both are window servers.
- GNOME is a desktop environment, which means it includes a help system, lots of utilities, etc. It still requires a window manager. GNOME 1 typically used sawfish, and GNOME 2 typically uses metacity. Both can use other window managers. Similarly, KDE typically uses kwin, but also works fine with other window managers.
- Aqua is both a window manager and a desktop environment. It doesn't work with different window managers because it is one, and Apple does not intend to split it up.
- Because both DisplayPDF-based as well as X11-based software are window servers, you cannot normally run both at the same time. Figuratively, both try to "take over" your screen. However, XDarwin includes an option to run "rootless", which means running from within Quartz and just visually using those parts of the screen a certain application requires. Apple's X11 implementation *only* supports this "rootless" mode, which is why - on the other hand - you can*not* run it without having Quartz running *too*.
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post #21 of 27
5/4/03 at 6:52am
Thread Starter 
Damn... so it's NOT possible? That sucks....
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post #22 of 27
5/4/03 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
All you need to do is use XDarwin, not Apple's X11.
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post #23 of 27
5/4/03 at 7:06am
Thread Starter 
OK.... The only problem is...... I can't find where to download the installer for FREE anymore.... Can you help me?
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post #24 of 27
5/4/03 at 7:14am
Try http://www.apple.com/downloads/macos...e/xfree86.html
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post #25 of 27
5/4/03 at 7:17am
Thread Starter 
So if I install this on top of the X11 installation I already have this should work? I should be able to run GNOME?
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post #26 of 27
5/4/03 at 3:02pm
I would suggest installing the xfree86-base and xfree86-rootless package with Fink (it actually includes both a rootless and rooted mode).

http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/...e86.php#darwin
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post #27 of 27
5/4/03 at 3:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by wmf
I would suggest installing the xfree86-base and xfree86-rootless package with Fink (it actually includes both a rootless and rooted mode).

http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/x11/...e86.php#darwin

Heh... yeah I got it working but it was running too slow... Thanks though..
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