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MacBidouille posts PPC 970 benchmarks - Page 12

post #441 of 666
5/27/03 at 1:54am


Lemon Bon Bon
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post #442 of 666
5/27/03 at 3:55am
Quote:
Originally posted by NETROMac
Pallets are covered with the opaque and sealed film.
There are above stickers with following information:

"tamper proof seal, confidential property inside, prosecution may result if opened by unauthorized personnel"


Apple's version of gift wrapped with a 'Do not open until Christmas' sticker. Or in this case WWDC.
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post #443 of 666
5/27/03 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurt
Apple's version of gift wrapped with a 'Do not open until Christmas' sticker. Or in this case WWDC.

I guess I don't see the difference!
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post #444 of 666
5/27/03 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally posted by philby
Unfortunately, the possibility or even probability of disappointment builds on a parallel curve.

I have lived too long to fear disappointment, though it has often been my companion in younger days. Rather I choose to live my life in hopeful expectation. In the end I find that reality exceeds my expectations more then it falls short. It is time to be surprised. Something wonderful is coming, something better then what we have.

Yet there are always those who will insist upon being disappointed. They will find a reason, no matter what.
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post #445 of 666
5/27/03 at 6:29am
Yeah, what he said!

...and the fact that Apple pretty much has to do SOMETHING to the Power Mac line or else they can kiss sales goodbye (it would be, as I would think of it, a test of "can a computer company live off laptops and consumer boxes alone?").
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post #446 of 666
5/27/03 at 6:35am
Disappointment?
Compared to the G4 that has dragged its feat since 1999 I can not imagine that we will be disappointed

However if one expect a tower were the lowend model beats the crap out of dual xeons and also cost less than the eMac, disappointment is a sure thing.

The real test of the 970 will not be during 2003 (the G4 is hardly a hard act to follow) but 2004 and 2005 and how well it will scale.
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post #447 of 666
5/27/03 at 6:35am
ooh oooh. It's going to be a VERY long 4 weeks....

_ <--- drool
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post #448 of 666
5/27/03 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by The Mactivist
ooh oooh. It's going to be a VERY long 4 weeks....

_ <--- drool

Well, my wife has twins coming by the 28th, so these next four weeks are going to go awfully quickly, if you ask me!

Not to get too off-topic there....
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post #449 of 666
5/27/03 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally posted by NukemHill
Well, my wife has twins coming by the 28th, so these next four weeks are going to go awfully quickly, if you ask me!

Not to get too off-topic there....

Can it possibly get any more off-topic
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post #450 of 666
5/27/03 at 7:44am
It's different this time.

We've got IBM and they've got their own corner to fight. Apple is merely a bonus.

Apple can benefit from IBM 'renewed' interest in PPC.

980 from Power 5.

I doubt IBM just decided to make the 970 with no roadmap. Other cpus will come.

And if the 980 is anything...ANYTHING like the promised Power5 then the 970 is merely the 'warm up' act.

In the meantime, Lemon Bon Bon, try telling that to performance starved Apple tower users who gasp in amazement when the 970 dual well and truly kicks the crap out of any Pentium 4 or G4 system out there.

And the low end 970? At 1.4 gig, I bet it benches with Intel's latest on FP and SIMD performance. Near as dammit.

Intel's 3 gig chip won't wanna meat the dual 1.8 970 in any dark alley.

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #451 of 666
5/27/03 at 7:46am
So, Intel will have a 10 gig chip by 2005 will they?

I'm 'impressed'.

I'd rather have the dual 980 at 4.5 gig each with twice - four times (or more judging by the Power5) the per-clock performance of the 970...

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #452 of 666
5/27/03 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
It's different this time.



I doubt IBM just decided to make the 970 with no roadmap. Other cpus will come.


Lemon Bon Bon

Could this have anything to do with your statement?

"PowerPC 970 ? First in a new family of high-performance 64-bit PowerPC microprocessors"

From here: IBM announcement

Since IBM announced that there is a family of these chips coming, I think your statements is pretty accurate. Besides, Moki hinted at that already too.
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post #453 of 666
5/27/03 at 8:05am
The better question is:

When or if has Intel stated that they are going to begin to ship dual core consumer chips?
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post #454 of 666
5/27/03 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
They don't, which is why the transaltion is confusing.

I am a proponent of the 970 based Power Macs at WWDC theory, but retail ready boxes with the conference still a month away seems pretty unrealistic.

It is consistent with their previous rumour, however. They said that 1.4 GHz boxes would be rolling off the production lines by the end of May to be at retail when the announcement happens at WWDC. The timing is believable if you're willing to believe the delivery schedule of the 970. It is within 2 months of the production time that IBM originally gave for the 970 back in October, and the rumours we've heard say that sampling and production were going very well.
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post #455 of 666
5/27/03 at 9:25am
Well, I'll give MacBidouille this: they're so far out on a limb right now the branch is breaking. If 970 Power Macs DON'T ship at WWDC, any credibility they might have will evaporate in a flash. They'll be this year's Spymac.

What gives me pause is the fact that none of the other rumor sites seem to have a clue about this; and more important, what OS are these boxes going to run? If WWDC is all about Panther and 64-bit systems, what is Steve going to say? "We have amazing new machines shipping right now, and oh by the way, the OS for them will ship in September. But until then you can still run 10.2 in emulation! Isn't that COOL? I'm sure you'll all want to buy one today anyway!" \
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post #456 of 666
5/27/03 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
Well, I'll give MacBidouille this: they're so far out on a limb right now the branch is breaking. If 970 Power Macs DON'T ship at WWDC, any credibility they might have will evaporate in a flash. They'll be this year's Spymac.

What gives me pause is the fact that none of the other rumor sites seem to have a clue about this; and more important, what OS are these boxes going to run? If WWDC is all about Panther and 64-bit systems, what is Steve going to say? "We have amazing new machines shipping right now, and oh by the way, the OS for them will ship in September. But until then you can still run 10.2 in emulation! Isn't that COOL? I'm sure you'll all want to buy one today anyway!" \

I agree completely, but if they're right their credibility is going to improve dramatically.
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post #457 of 666
5/27/03 at 9:33am
macbippyboopy had photos of the MDD when all other rumor sites did not.

10.2.7 on 970 would not be running in emulation.

I do agree they are reaaaaaaaallllllllly out on a limb now though. this actually dovetails with visigothes comments though. brochures are problably way lower on the totem pole so i could not see them being dsigned or made form someone outside of apple until a month at the earliest before a launch.

guess we'll know in a month.
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post #458 of 666
5/27/03 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
If WWDC is all about Panther and 64-bit systems, what is Steve going to say? "We have amazing new machines shipping right now, and oh by the way, the OS for them will ship in September. But until then you can still run 10.2 in emulation! Isn't that COOL? I'm sure you'll all want to buy one today anyway!" \

Why not?

- End of June - WWDC 970's announced (shipping early in July)
- Early July ... (usual Apple delay with new hardware)
- Mid July systems start to ship (with luck)
- End July systems land in end use hands
- Early - Mid Sep OS X 10.3 rolls off the line

Running a less then optimum config ( 970 + special 10.2.x build ) for what a few weeks (maybe a tad over a month at the most) ... not a big deal from where I sit. The only way this might matter is if the 970 running 10.2.x is REALLY SLOW then I could see some issues... but even then, so long as 10.3 makes the 970 'come alive' then it shouldn't really matter.

Finally...

Could it be that the first batch of machines will be earmarked for DEVELOPERS ONLY?!?! Hey it could happen and these folks would ALL have builds of pre-release Panther in order to test all of their software!

Hmmm now THAT makes some real sense...

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post #459 of 666
5/27/03 at 9:40am
  • Leonis
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Again

A tweaked version of 10.2 will be just fine.

Having a brand new OS on a brand new hardware can mean lots of problems since both are "untested"

Buying the new 970 PowerMac and get 10.3 upgrade for free will be what they are doing I think
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post #460 of 666
5/27/03 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaktai
Something wonderful is coming, something better then what we have.

Well, call me a pessimist, but something better than what we currently have does not make it wonderful. This reflects not so much on what we'll get, but on what we currently have, which I find to be far from wonderful.

Anyway, what I meant by "possibly being disappointed" is not the new hardware (and Panther), but that the talks and speculations here are based on just rumours, and that we might not see any 970 PowerMacs at WWDC. This, to me, would be a disappointment.
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post #461 of 666
5/27/03 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally posted by philby
Well, call me a pessimist, but something better than what we currently have does not make it wonderful.

...anyway, what I meant by "possibly being disappointed" is not the new hardware (and Panther), but that the talks and speculations here are based on just rumours, and that we might not see any 970 PowerMacs at WWDC. This, to me, would be a disappointment.

That's why it's good to be an optimist. It's in Apple's best interest to resurrect their PMs, and the sooner the better.
And what better time and place to do it than WWDC.
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post #462 of 666
5/27/03 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally posted by SoopaDrive
That's why it's good to be an optimist. It's in Apple's best interest to resurrect their PMs, and the sooner the better.
And what better time and place to do it than WWDC.

I agree that: "Quote:
"It's in Apple's best interest to resurrect their PMs, and the sooner the better." End Quote"

But to be pessimistic before Apple announces anything is a wise mans decision. That way you won't get your hopes up, and then your whole world won't come crashing down around you with rumor mongers complaining about everything they predicted didn't come to fruition while they blame Apple for it - as if they (Apple) said they would be bringing it to their door for free in the next day.
I've seen it a hundred times.
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post #463 of 666
5/27/03 at 11:16am
It looks like you would have a hard job making a PowerMac 970 slower than a G4.
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post #464 of 666
5/27/03 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardf12
macbippyboopy had photos of the MDD when all other rumor sites did not.

Well, that's true. I remember the absolute screaming from people who insisted the pics were Photoshopped and that Apple would never ship anything so ugly. (And I've had two of them myself. )

I guess I am in the same camp as those who say if you temper your expectations of Apple, you won't be disappointed. I just can't imagine the uproar on this board on June 23 if no 970 Power Macs appear. I think I will stay in bed that day with the covers over my head.
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post #465 of 666
5/27/03 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
But until then you can still run 10.2 in emulation!

10.2 on a 970 would not be emulation in the sense of VPC on a mac. It would be in the sense of runnig 68k apps on your PPC. You see NO penelty hit for running them. 10.2 will get a small tweak to run on the 970s (just like any other new machine always has a bit of a newer build so it knows about the new hardware). And then it will run just fine. Once 10.3 comes out, I am sure Apple will hype the "64bitness", but it wont double the speed of your 970 by installing it.

I think that some of you are still thinking (64bit CPU + 64bit OS) = twice as fast as (32bit CPU + 32bit OS). This isn't true, the performance increase, this time, is do to other parts of the chip not its "bitness". I would bet that 90% of us will not run a 64 bit app anytime in the next 5 years!
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post #466 of 666
5/27/03 at 11:36am
Quote:
if the 970 running 10.2.x is REALLY SLOW

What Stoo said.

He just beat me to it...

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #467 of 666
5/27/03 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by kupan787
10.2 on a 970 would not be emulation in the sense of VPC on a mac.

I understand that; I was just exaggerating for comic effect. I should have added one of these:
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post #468 of 666
5/27/03 at 11:39am
The PowerPC 970 runs 32bit PowerPC code (the stuff that the current G4 runs) natively. The 68K emulator (software) was piece of genius that made the transition between 68K and PowerPC, two very different architectures, seamless. The transition between PowerPC 64 and PowerPC 32 is extra easy because they're both members of the PowerPC architecture.
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post #469 of 666
5/27/03 at 11:45am
Judging by the 'Dooby' benches, the 970 will be platform changing. It will send shockwaves through the workstation community. 65% of 'arthouses' intend to go Apple this year. I think Kerris or some of those evangelists have been peppering the workstation community with STRONG hints of what's to come from Apple.

Panther will prob' eak out optimisations for our beloved OS and the new chip it will run on. I'm confident the new chip will toe-poke the G4 duals to touch even with a single entry level 970 at 1.4.

X 2.7 will suffice until then. Why should Apple wait half a year to get those 970s out? They can be making money NOW! Gaining market share NOW! It all counts. That's two quarters worth of growth. To get 'power'Mac sales off life support.

Now that 'flagship' iMac sales aren't bailing Apple out they HAVE to address the Tower issue. (Funny, all that talk about Apple becoming a consumer only company and neglecting the tower/creative pro' market.) And back when Apple was posting a 100 million quarterly, the Tower had much better sales then! Ironic if the tables should turn. What with iMac2 sales being mediocre. We'll have come full circle over these last four years if Tower sales hit the half million mark in the next half a year.

Mine will be one of them. No more whining about crappy G4 performance for me.

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #470 of 666
5/27/03 at 11:52am
X 2.7 will suffice until then. Why should Apple wait half a year to get those 970s out? They can be making money NOW! Gaining market share NOW! It all counts. That's two quarters worth of growth. To get 'power'Mac sales off life support.

How about to just stop the losses?
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post #471 of 666
5/27/03 at 11:56am
How about "its always darkest before the dawn"??
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post #472 of 666
5/27/03 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon

Now that 'flagship' iMac sales aren't bailing Apple out they HAVE to address the Tower issue. (Funny, all that talk about Apple becoming a consumer only company and neglecting the tower/creative pro' market.)

All that talk was just talk, and I've been hearing that whine ever since the iMac first appeared.

Apparently some people just can't understand that a solid consumer product and a solid professional product aren't mutually exclusive, or that Apple is big enough to pay attention to more than one product category at once.

Quote:
And back when Apple was posting a 100 million quarterly, the Tower had much better sales then! Ironic if the tables should turn. What with iMac2 sales being mediocre. We'll have come full circle over these last four years if Tower sales hit the half million mark in the next half a year.

Even if the sunflower was selling as well as the jellybean did at its peak, the plain fact is that it's not a profitable machine. It's costly to manufacture, and it has to hit a fairly restrictive price point. The PowerMac has always been Apple's cash cow, even when it wasn't their best seller in absolute volume. That role has shifted increasingly over to the PowerBook, but it's nevertheless true that pro products make Apple money. The best Apple can reasonably hope from the consumer line is that they gain market share and mindshare, because they don't bring nearly as much revenue in per unit.

Now, if the PowerMac gets a 970, and the PowerBook gets a 970, I expect revenues to shoot upward. Especially once QXP6 allows OS X into one of Apple's most loyal markets and spurs a round of hardware upgrades.

Historically, what's good for the PowerBook is good for the iMac.
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post #473 of 666
5/27/03 at 12:11pm
" This report is wrong.
I don't know what's up with my French rumor-brethren, but I just exchanged emails wiht my factory rep at the Taiwan plant where the 970 Power Macs really are being manufactured, and there are **not** any finished products at this time. All I can get is a verification that "at least one model is starting into production soon."

I don't know about MacBidioulle, but my guy actually works at the plant, and this info, while not as flamboyant as the French report, is actually accurate.

Again: There are no finished/packed Power Mac 970's in existence at this time. Period."

Okay. So the 'quoter' aint working again. Fine. I can live with that

Macwhispers hasn't posted this on his web-site (if this is the same guy...) However, he felt the need to quell the Dooby rumours.

Hmmm. I think it must be a close thing. Even if they aint in boxes...I think a WWDC debut would make sense. If they ship early August following said announcement or after a New York annoucement...then okay.

It wasn't that long ago some pessimists were predicting Jan' 2004 for any 970 Tower. 4 weeks or 3 months. I'd settle for either but the sooner the better! (Just to ram it down those Wintel mhz boasters...yeah...and stick it to all those G4 whiners too...)

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post #474 of 666
5/27/03 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Mine will be one of them. No more whining about crappy G4 performance for me.

LBB, your enthusiasm for this unannounced bit of vaporware has me worried! I think you should temper your expectations a bit, on the chance that the next Power Mac WON'T, in fact, do everything, including bend time, resolve the crisis in the Middle East and make your toast in the morning!
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post #475 of 666
5/27/03 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
LBB, your enthusiasm for this unannounced bit of vaporware has me worried! I think you should temper your expectations a bit, on the chance that the next Power Mac WON'T, in fact, do everything, including bend time, resolve the crisis in the Middle East and make your toast in the morning!

Damn, no toast.
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post #476 of 666
5/27/03 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
Damn, no toast.

There MAY be toast; I'm just saying we should wait and see. (Hell, the 667MHz VGA PowerBooks fried eggs, so anything is possible.)
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post #477 of 666
5/27/03 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph


. . . Even if the sunflower was selling as well as the jellybean did at its peak, the plain fact is that it's not a profitable machine. It's costly to manufacture, and it has to hit a fairly restrictive price point.


You are reinforcing my suspicions about the iMac's manufacturing cost. A Mac for the consumer market should have been designed with low manufacturing cost as one of the goals. I hope Apple realizes their mistake and are working to reducing cost. (I know, wrong thread, but I couldn't resist commenting on what you said.)
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post #478 of 666
5/27/03 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Again: There are no finished/packed Power Mac 970's in existence at this time. Period."

Lemon Bon Bon

So, um, maybe we're talking about two different products here.

Screed ...desperately trying to find a silver lining.
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post #479 of 666
5/27/03 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Macwhispers hasn't posted this on his web-site (if this is the same guy...) However, he felt the need to quell the Dooby rumours.

MacWhispers couldn't predict Christmas Eve if he tried.
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post #480 of 666
5/27/03 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
MacWhispers couldn't predict Christmas Eve if he tried.

In all fairness, Jack could probably get close though.
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